MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: 4everwarriors on March 15, 2007, 08:48:01 PM
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to ask if Marquette is getting their money's worth?
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If things don't change and he does not do better next year, we have to think about it. He has had now over 2 full classes of players. i am not asking much, JUST ONE WIN IN THE NCAA!
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All right, I was feeling really bad about the loss...but your post just brought me back to earth. We just lost in the NCAA tournament. We had an extremely bad game, but the overall season was a blast. We're getting our money's worth. With a full team back next year, a couple nice additions, and a little luck in the injury department, next year will be even more fun. Tonight was rough, but a lot of other teams would love to "get their money's worth" like we did this year.
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It'll be interesting to see how many of the assistants bolt this year.
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We are lucky to have him. Who else could do what he's doing at MU?
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we could easily get another coach that can recruit and teach for a lot less
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it was tough seeing dwayne stephens on the msu bench. I think stephens gets the msu job if izzo ever bolts.
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"to ask if Marquette is getting their money's worth?"
I really don't understand this question. Would you be happy if we spent less and had the same results? What would you value this year's results at? What would you value our entry into the Big East at? What would you value our Final Four run at?
If we are over-paying, who would you rather have? Coach K who just lost a first round game to an eleven seed? Or is Duke getting their money's worth?
Try not to be melodramatic. We had a poor showing without our heart and soul player and with starting two juniors, two sophomores and a freshman against a solid MSU team whose coach knows our playbook as well as anyone else in the NCAA does.
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Don't get me wrong - I would not trade TC for anything. But you have to admit he has not won anything in march. not one game other than the final four year. I do think of florida's coach as someone who was also accused of being a one hit wonder (until he won the title) so I just will use that to hope for next year.
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to ask if Marquette is getting their money's worth?
Let's let this settle a little bit before we run our coach out of town....JFC.....how many other teams could beat MSU without their best defender and second leading scorer....if we were 100% healthy and just lost to E. Kentucky, then yes, I'd say we need to start talking about it. That was a tough draw for us...8/9 games usually are. Our expectations need to be realistic....truth be told 4 NCAA appearances and a Final Four over 6 years is solid.
Yes, the first round losses hurt. Yes, everyone here wishes they'd advance to at least the second round or beyond every year. If you're expecting a perennial Top 5-10 team every year in Milwaukee....it's not going to happen.
It amazes me how greedy people become with a taste of success. Yeah, I'm as bitter as the next guy right now, but we finished 24-10.
I'm pretty sure progams like DePaul, St. John's, Providence, Rutgers and Seton Hall would love to have our problems.
Even if DJ doesn't come back (which would be ridiculous) we're most likely a Top 25 team starting the season in Maui....do you think we would've even sniffed an invitation to that tournament without Crean's success?
Save the coach bashing.
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we could easily get another coach that can recruit and teach for a lot less
So, who would you hire? Are we looking for a bargain? Are you paying his salary?
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Hmmm. DePaul played in Maui this season. Does that mean Jerry Wainwright deserves that credit?
Get your head out of your keister!!!
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Hmmm. DePaul played in Maui this season. Does that mean Jerry Wainwright deserves that credit?
Get your head out of your keister!!!
Hmmm....do you think MU would've been invited with Mike Deane as your coach? Leito was their coach when they set this year's field and they were coming off an NCAA appearance....
You may want to remove your head out of your own keister...
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I wouldn't care as much if MU had looked as 10% prepared as Michigan State was in the first half. Look, we are an 8, they are 9, this game is supposed to be close. But it wasn't. We were awful in the first half and that blame goes 100% on the head coach. Plain and simple.
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I guess Bill Freider got ASU in next year's tournament.
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I guess Bill Freider got ASU in next year's tournament.
I guess you went and researched next year's field and coaches just to try and make a point....
If you don't think Crean has anything to do with us going to Maui you need to get your head examined.
Maybe you can complain about our OOC schedule next year...as I'm sure the Maui field won't be good enough.
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duke getting eliminated is a useless point. they haven't lost in the 1st round all but 1 year of their current coach's tenure.
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I guess Bill Freider got ASU in next year's tournament.
I guess you went and researched next year's field and coaches just to try and make a point....
If you don't think Crean has anything to do with us going to Maui you need to get your head examined.
Maybe you can complain about our OOC schedule next year...as I'm sure the Maui field won't be good enough.
You're goddamn right I'll complain about the non-conference HOME schedule if it continues to completely SCREW the season ticket holders. Notice I said HOME schedule. HOME. I repeat...the HOME schedule.
Cardinal Stritch and Hillsdale College.
Nicely done.
The season ticket holders thank you.
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The answer is an unequivocal "Yes".
Since Tom Crean's arrival, Marquette has:
- appeared in four NCAAs in the last six years, a better record than any MU coach since Hank Raymond (who, let's face it, didn't have to rebuild the program the way Crean has).
- spent more than twice as many weeks in the AP top 25 than in the previous 15 years combined.
- earned an invitation to one of the nation's premiere conferences
- appeared in a Final Four
- landed the best player and most positive advertisement for Marquette University ever
- built one of the premiere athletic facilities in the nation
- seen MU home games become some of the best attended in all of NCAA Division I, setting several attendance records along the way
Is Tom Crean alone responsible for all this? No. But he's certainly the primary figure in all these occurrences and because of that, he's worth every dime.
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I guess Bill Freider got ASU in next year's tournament.
I guess you went and researched next year's field and coaches just to try and make a point....
If you don't think Crean has anything to do with us going to Maui you need to get your head examined.
Maybe you can complain about our OOC schedule next year...as I'm sure the Maui field won't be good enough.
You're goddamn right I'll complain about the non-conference HOME schedule if it continues to completely SCREW the season ticket holders. Notice I said HOME schedule. HOME. I repeat...the HOME schedule.
Cardinal Stritch and Hillsdale College.
Nicely done.
The season ticket holders thank you.
Would you prefer Athletes in Action, Spartak Junior and Marathon Oil? Cause that's who the Cardinal Stritch and Hillsdale-type games are replacing.
MU played a top 20 schedule this year with home games against several NCAA-bound opponents. The schedule today is FAR more appealing than in the Great Midwest and Conference USA days.
Regardless, purchasing Marquette season tickets is not a compulsory act. You are free to show your disdain for the schedule by canceling your tickets. I think most of us would prefer that to your incessant whining over it.
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PLEASE dont even think of calling for crean's head... as an msu student and a fan of a team who never faces you(other than tonite) plese dont think of doing away with crean. the guy has had nothing but bad luck w/ the tournament. Look at where your program was before he came and look at where it is now. We may have won tonite, but that was w/o one of your best scorers and the big east defender of the year. Granted we didn't play our usualy game either, so its impossible to predict the outcome had mcNeal been healthy, but finishing top 20 in the nation is nothing to look past. We didn't even finish ranked this year and had our goals set on just making this tournament. You have made is the past 4 of 6 seasons or so w/ a final 4 and brand new facilities. Give it time, you guys return most of you players next season and are destined for a good regular season and a good run in the tourney...guaranteed. Good luck guys
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Crean must go. Pay for performance like any other business.
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I guess Bill Freider got ASU in next year's tournament.
I guess you went and researched next year's field and coaches just to try and make a point....
If you don't think Crean has anything to do with us going to Maui you need to get your head examined.
Maybe you can complain about our OOC schedule next year...as I'm sure the Maui field won't be good enough.
You're goddamn right I'll complain about the non-conference HOME schedule if it continues to completely SCREW the season ticket holders. Notice I said HOME schedule. HOME. I repeat...the HOME schedule.
Cardinal Stritch and Hillsdale College.
Nicely done.
The season ticket holders thank you.
Nice...relax.....
then don't buy season tickets.....Notice I said don't buy season tickets....Don't. That's why they offer individual game ticket sales. Get a grip.
Some people are just destined to always find the next thing to complain about....
Hopefully we can bring in Kentucky, North Carolina and UCLA to satisfy you next year....
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I say he has 2 years to advance to the sweet 16. If he does not win at least 1 tournament game with the big 3 we got major problems, and Crean is probably out of a job
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Crean must go. Pay for performance like any other business.
Brilliant. So, who's your next head coach? Billy Donovan? Roy Williams? Maybe Coach K will leave Durham?
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I say he has 2 years to advance to the sweet 16. If he does not win at least 1 tournament game with the big 3 we got major problems, and Crean is probably out of a job
What "Big three?" It's a joke!! I've seen at least half a dozen teams with players as talented.
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I say he has 2 years to advance to the sweet 16. If he does not win at least 1 tournament game with the big 3 we got major problems, and Crean is probably out of a job
What "Big three?" It's a joke!! I've seen at least half a dozen teams with players as talented.
Considering there's 336 D-I programs I guess we're in good shape then.
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I say he has 2 years to advance to the sweet 16. If he does not win at least 1 tournament game with the big 3 we got major problems, and Crean is probably out of a job
He will. Remember they are only sophomores, and we have no seniors basically. Add in the fact that today we only had 2 of them, so really they've only had one year of experience with all 3 of them in the tournament. And PRN you're unbelievable. I don't know what team you've been following for the past 30 years, but I don't think it's the same one. Ever since the 80's we've been average...not even that but an average mid-major. Crean helped(not single handedly cause nobody could do that) get us from there to the Big East, to winning the CBE tournament and the GAS twice. Since the final four, which he helped get us to, everything at the university has improved, and now there are even better things on the horizon for the university because of the attention Crean has helped bring to a former midmajor school. If you honestly think that we were anything but before he came, you really need a reality check. I'm lucky I've only been going to games since the early 90's and those teams were painful to watch sometimes even verse other average teams, the same teams that compete for the 10-16 seeds in the ncaa tournament.
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MarquetteFan94 - sorry dude, but I'm sick of losing in the NCAA's and I'm sick of the Blue & Gold fund calling me to cover Crean’s bloated salary with zero results; what happened to Strong Funds?
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I hate to say it an I've tried to stay away from it as much as possible, but how much of Crean's credibility is from Wade, or even just 2003. He hasn't won a post-season game in 3 years. I love what he's done for the school, but step back for a second and his post-season is unacceptable to me for making around 1.5 million a years. I expect better, simple as that. Next year he's got his big 3 as juniors, he's pretty much living and dying on that class, so I need to see something definitive for him to prove his worth to me.
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MarquetteFan94 - sorry dude, but I'm sick of losing in the NCAA's and I'm sick of the Blue & Gold fund calling me to cover Crean’s bloated salary with zero results; what happened to Strong Funds?
I'm as sick of losing as anyone else...it f-ing sucks....you do realize what the Men's B-Ball team means to the university right? Crean has as much to do with that as anyone else....I'm pretty sure the university is getting an amazing return on coach's salary. We go to the Sweet 16 next year and then it's "let's lock Crean up to a lifetime contract..."
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Next person who brings up money is a moron. Go look at the list which isn't even official....you'll see Creighton up there...how much have they done in the past 8 years? Has their current coach helped bring them into the big east from basically a mid major conference? do they have state of the art facilities? because of their basketball program do they have great plans for the near future for facilities on their campus not relating to basketball?
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MUCHI814 - amen my brother.
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I hate to say it an I've tried to stay away from it as much as possible, but how much of Crean's credibility is from Wade, or even just 2003. He hasn't won a post-season game in 3 years. I love what he's done for the school, but step back for a second and his post-season is unacceptable to me for making around 1.5 million a years. I expect better, simple as that. Next year he's got his big 3 as juniors, he's pretty much living and dying on that class, so I need to see something definitive for him to prove his worth to me.
Those are all good points....but what if MU never got rid of Mike Deane....we all now have these lofty expectations...why? Because of the precedent that CREAN has set....who recruited Wade? How many schools have made the NCAAs 4 of the last 6 years including a Final Four....not a lot. 15 other schools have been to the Final Four in the last 4 years....that's pretty elite company in my book.
The next two years are critical....no doubt about it.
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Next person who brings up money is a moron. Go look at the list which isn't even official....you'll see Creighton up there...how much have they done in the past 8 years? Has their current coach helped bring them into the big east from basically a mid major conference? do they have state of the art facilities? because of their basketball program do they have great plans for the near future for facilities on their campus not relating to basketball?
Do you live under a rock?
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Tom crean has done all he can. Its time to move on and hire someone else.
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Next person who brings up money is a moron. Go look at the list which isn't even official....you'll see Creighton up there...how much have they done in the past 8 years? Has their current coach helped bring them into the big east from basically a mid major conference? do they have state of the art facilities? because of their basketball program do they have great plans for the near future for facilities on their campus not relating to basketball?
Do you live under a rock?
no do you?
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I actually have proof, unlike some people who are just pulling stuff out of their asses....I go to school now, everything is a lot better, and thanks to the current team, which was recruited/coached/taught by tom crean we are getting more money, which is going towards new facilities that are going to be built starting in a year or so....so no i don't live under a rock...do you live with your head up your ass?
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Tom crean has done all he can. Its time to move on and hire someone else.
Yeah, clearly we're going in the wrong direction....
2003 FF
$31M Al McGuire Center
Big East
Attendance Records
3 Players in the NBA
Hosting ESPN College Game Day
NCAA Tournament 4 of 6 years
It's really time to start looking in a new direction....perhaps we can rejuvinate the Mike Deane era or model oursleves after DePaul. It sure would be great to play in front of 9,000 every night again and hope to host an NIT first round game.
It amazes me how greedy people are and unappreciative of how good things have become for MU basketball in a very short time!
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max is right, the campus is so much better than it was 5 or 10 years ago and this is because of the money crean has been able to bring in because our basketball team is nationally recognised now. He's pulled us out of a dead league and put us in one of the hardest leagues to compete in and we've won 10 games both years in the BE.
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I'm no denying what Crean has done for the school I already said how I think it's great what he's done, but I'm evaluating him on a pure basketball aspect and to me I expect more for what we pay him. It's a personal opinion, I'm sick of everyone treating him like he's a godsend when he really only has one season to show for it. In the last 3 years since I've been at Marquette he has yet to win a post-season game, I find that unacceptable. I realize it's a standard that he has helped create, but it's a standard that he needs to maintain. I don't like that next year I will be settling for just 1 win in the BE tournament or just 1 win in the NCAA tournament....Just out of curiosity I do want to know what facilities and other parts of the university he has helped improve outside of basketball.
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What are you taking about? This is a Marquette plateau. I may be dated but things were pretty good when we went to the sweet sixteen with Tony Miller. He broke that press. That was a game.
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Maybe it's my Cubs fan in me, but if MU get into the Big Dance, they need to take advantage. I'm not saying win the whole thing every year. As fans, we build up and up the college basketball season until these four days, every year. My ultimate goal is for my team to make it in the NCAA tournament and play well, win or lose. We did not do that at all tonight. I feel like our team (maybe coach) thinks it's their right to be in the NCAA tournament, and it's okay to play like they did tonight. I'm sure they don't think that way, but that's the way they played in the first half.
You have to have the fire in the NCAA tournament, you cannot be complacent. These opportunities are limited.
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A new engineering building is going to be built, a new law school new dorms new offices, i've heard a bunch of different things. For sure the engineering building and something else within 2 years. And I agree that we should be having better post seasons, but we never have had great ones. He has taken nothing and done a good amount with it. If you think well a small school can win a game why can't we...watch that game, it usually takes a great performance from one guy or even a whole team, and sometimes a last second shot. We should have won the game last year, but it took the best game of one guy's life to beat us. While it's disappointing, I think that what he earns is fine. Most coaches' salaries don't include anything they do outside of coaching...Crean's does. The school barely changed through the 90's, but now thanks to the exposure, things at campus and with the team are going to get a lot better...great teams don't happen over night. Next year we have the chance to make it 3 straight years in the ncaa, should have been more if it weren't for Diener getting hurt, we haven't done that since the 70's, which just shows where our program has been and where it is now.
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Yeah, clearly we're going in the wrong direction....
2003 FF
$31M Al McGuire Center
Big East
Attendance Records
3 Players in the NBA
Hosting ESPN College Game Day
NCAA Tournament 4 of 6 years
It's really time to start looking in a new direction....perhaps we can rejuvinate the Mike Deane era or model oursleves after DePaul. It sure would be great to play in front of 9,000 every night again and hope to host an NIT first round game.
It amazes me how greedy people are and unappreciative of how good things have become for MU basketball in a very short time!
--We can get a lot of coaches considering how much money we pay this guy. And yes I am greedy . . . for NCAA wins but we don't know what that is now do we???
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--We can get a lot of coaches considering how much money we pay this guy. And yes I am greedy . . . for NCAA wins but we don't know what that is now do we???
You act as though we've been there before Crean consistently...And yes we can get a lot of coaches, like Mike Deane maybe...or Bob Dukiet....Any coach could come in now...but could any come in when Crean did. We rip on DePaul all the time, well guess what?...we were almost as worse of when Crean came as they have been.
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--We can get a lot of coaches considering how much money we pay this guy. And yes I am greedy . . . for NCAA wins but we don't know what that is now do we???
We're all still waiting for the names - instead of persisting non-stop with your anti-Crean bitchfest, why don't you propose candidates, and while doing so, outline the specific qualifications for each. You know, like record, recruiting history, track record of player development, post-season performance, offensive/defensive strategy, etc. Run the whole gamut - I'm truly interested to read specifics on who in the coaching ranks should replace Crean if you were ever to have your way.
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I LOVE COACH CREAN!!! HE IS A GODSEND TO THIS UNIVERSITY AND MY DEGREE WILL GET ME MORE MONEY WHEN I GRADUATE IN A FEW YEARS BECAUSE OF THE PRESTIGE HE HAS GIVEN THIS UNIVERSITY!! just throwing that out there. ;D
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So am I the only one who donates to MU (college of A&S) based on what my education has given me??? I always cringe when I hear people base their donations on the success of MU hoops. Do you think the Dental building or the new Engineering building will be built with money stemming for the contractual obligations of Tom Crean?? Yes I attend B&G fund functions (and at times donate...I think money isn't being spent appropriately other than TC..but that is another topic) but believe it or not people give just to give!!! Look at David Straz...Look at the Wesslers....Look at Hegarty...etc.
Tom Crean is not altering my donations towards a new Chemistry Building nor other major donators.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.
If anything thing...if Crean 'the money donating machine' was so good, why did MU end up with a 6K practice facility and not a 18000K arena? Why wasn't the Dental building restricted to only 1/3 the best it could have been?
If Crean's time hasn't come...it is very close.
Note: PRN, Harrison, or 4ever--please don't respond/copy to his post...you are not good people and do nothing or have done nothing positive for the University that I work hard for every day.
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--We can get a lot of coaches considering how much money we pay this guy. And yes I am greedy . . . for NCAA wins but we don't know what that is now do we???
We're all still waiting for the names - instead of persisting non-stop with your anti-Crean bitchfest, why don't you propose candidates, and while doing so, outline the specific qualifications for each. You know, like record, recruiting history, track record of player development, post-season performance, offensive/defensive strategy, etc. Run the whole gamut - I'm truly interested to read specifics on who in the coaching ranks should replace Crean if you were ever to have your way.
If I had the time and money I would answer this question to the best of my ability. But there are at least five people more qualifed then tom crean . . . there has to be given the results I have seen. If you do not believe that then I have some nice bridges I would like to sell you.
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State, i'm glad you are spending your hard earned money to better the education that us current students receive, but Crean has helped the prestige and he's the reason that applications continues to increase as much as they have since our final 4 year.
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State, I wish what you said were true to some people. I know that when I leave...and after paying off my education I will give to Marquette no matter how the team performs. But you can't deny that the team and how well it is doing and what conference it is in doesn't effect anything. All the proof needed is after the final four, look at the amount of applicants, which again is way up this year. Those people give money not only for their own education, but once again like I will back to the school no matter what. But their coming to Marquette in the first place is influenced by the team. This obviously brings up the point of winning, which of course we want to see, but we have to be patient. We aren't Duke or other teams that have had good teams for the past 15 years. We are though trying to create that.
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we could easily get another coach that can recruit and teach for a lot less
You make it sound like it's coming out of your wallet. Sad
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Thatman...can you possibly be more negative as a person?
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;u=310;sa=showPosts
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to ask if Marquette is getting their money's worth?
Ask it all you want, I believe the Jesuits have asked that and will continue to each year.
Next year is the year that will be important in my view. Next year is a Sweet 16 or better type of year. 2 key pieces coming in to fill voids, no major losses, tons of experience back.
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If I had the time and money I would answer this question to the best of my ability. But there are at least five people more qualifed then tom crean . . . there has to be given the results I have seen. If you do not believe that then I have some nice bridges I would like to sell you.
That answer is an unadulterated cop-out; if you're so hellbent on proving that there are multiple coaches better than Crean, why can't you name them?
From what I've read out of you this evening, you're contending that there are several (and I'll leave it at five, although from your tone, I'd contend you think there are even more) coaches whose services Marquette could obtain at a salary equal to or lesser than Crean's. It's not out of bounds to insist that you name them - why can't you? "I don't have the time," is a crock answer - if you're going to gripe the way you have then for the love of God have some concete facts to back it up.
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here here.
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To answer your question State, the Al was blueprinted long long ago. No way they had the land or the ability to build an 18000 seat arena. It wasn't even supposed to be as big as it finally came out.
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here are a few right now:
Donnie Jones
http://www.gatorzone.com/billydonovan/?sub=staff&page=jones_full
Dana Altman
http://www.gocreighton.com/items_of_interest/bios.asp?BiosID=68
I would also look in the DII and DIII ranks also
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i'd rather have crean
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if we are looking at DII and DIII (although I think Crean should stay)... have to look at local guys
Winona St coach (he did beat Minnesota this year, and they dont lose)
UW-Stevens Point coach (number 1 for DIII, but then we would be copying what Wisconsin did, and we don't want to do that >:( )
my choice... Tom Crean from Marquette, he seems to do a good job ;D
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Good start....first of all, explain why they are good choices, things that set them apart. Also Altman is too expensive according to some people for what he would do. He's only paid about 300k less than Crean, or so I thought, if I had the link I'd provide you with it...maybe tomorrow. Also, if you are going to d2 or d3, what makes you think they can handle the pressure from fans such as yourself at a program in the big east that should be in the sweet sixteen every year? Finally, do you think they can recruit on the same level or better against these bigger more prestigious schools?
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PRN you are one of the biggest BO's I have ever witnessed. Enjoy your perpetual day in flagellation until next November. YOU ARE KING!
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here are a few right now:
Donnie Jones
http://www.gatorzone.com/billydonovan/?sub=staff&page=jones_full
Dana Altman
http://www.gocreighton.com/items_of_interest/bios.asp?BiosID=68
I would also look in the DII and DIII ranks also
Well...2 down, only 3 more - or so - to go. It's one thing to throw names out, but another to explain and quantify why either would (a) make Crean expendable (b) want to leave their currrent situation, and (c) expect a level of compensation considerably less than Crean, presumably knowing what Crean's salary is.
Let's start with Donnie Jones - I imagine first thing you see is Florida pedigree - assistant to Billy Donovan, recruitment of guys like Noah, Horford, Brewer, Green, Humphrey, etc., etc. OK - fine - but then you have to ask yourself how much of that was Jones and how much of that was Donovan, the name across the front of the jersey, past success (UF was in a Final Four in 2000). And if you're going to give Jones the lion's share of the credit, then what about Anthony Grant - yes, the same Anthony Grant who just coached Virginia Commonwealth to an upset victory over Duke today. Wouldn't some of that credit have to go to him as well? The next question I'd have - why hasn't Jones received other offers - he's been an assistant to Donovan for 13 years - wouldn't you think he'd have been offered a head gig somewhere in 13 years? And what do you know of his coaching strategy? He'd be hard-pressed to find the same kind of athletes that are at Florida just about anywhere in America - could he run the same kind of offense they run at Florida? What is his area of emphasis? Does he have a proven track-record of developing bigs? Has he worked extensively with Noah? With Chris Richard? How about Florida's freshman big man, Marcus Speights? Tell me this.
On to Altman - now, I won't deny he's had sucess in the Missouri Valley; I was particularly impressed with their performance in the conference tourney championship game. But, let's not get ahead of ourselves - this is the Missouri Valley, not the Big East. They were swept by Southern Illinois in the regular season, lost games to Wichita State and Indiana State, and, before their run in the MVC tournament, were most certainly on the bubble. He's had the benefit of two great seniors, Funk and Tolliver - can you put all of that on Altman himself, or do you credit two veteran players with a little mojo of their own? And what becomes of them once these two studs are gone? Do you know what he has coming in next year? Could he recruit to the Big East? How does his game strategy translate to our players? To our conference?
You're dealing in a whole lot of "what-ifs" and hypotheticals. You've brought up one guy who has ridden the coattails of another guy for 13 years, and another who has been in a mid-major conference and while successful there, there's no indication of how that would translate to a major conference.
I'm not an apologist for Crean. I'm not happy with tonight. Tonight sucked - it sucked to get beat up and pretty much knocked out of the game 10 minutes in. I, just as you, want to win every game. I want to go 35-0 every year and win the national championship. I'm tired of one and done and always having to harken back to '03. But I'm also an alum who sat through 3 years of Mike Deane, and remember half-empty Bradley Centers, teams with a bunch of stiffs, 14-15 seasons hoping the NIT would come calling, and the knowledge that an embarrassment to the University could always be right around the corner. What we have now is a guy who has won two-thirds of his games, sent three players to the NBA, and several more to Europe and the D-League, made the NCAA tournament an expectation not a hopeful quest, restored resepctability and class to the program, and numerous other intangibles - and yes, you have to count intangibles - 4,500+ student tickets, 19,000+ crowds for games, national exposure. The man's track record is pretty good - and we have the proof of that. No, it's not perfect, and when it comes to the post-season, even sub-par. But, if the best you can come up with is a career assistant, a mid-major coach, and dredging the D-III pool, thanks, I'll stick with our guy.
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If anything thing...if Crean 'the money donating machine' was so good, why did MU end up with a 6K practice facility and not a 18000K arena?
Well...this one is pretty simple....because MU doesn't need their own 18,000 seat arena. And exactly where on MU's campus is there space for an 18k seat arena?! Maybe they should level the Union?? The library seems to take up a lot of space, perhaps that can go too? The BC is 5 blocks from campus!
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PLEASE dont even think of calling for crean's head... as an msu student and a fan of a team who never faces you(other than tonite) plese dont think of doing away with crean. the guy has had nothing but bad luck w/ the tournament. Look at where your program was before he came and look at where it is now. We may have won tonite, but that was w/o one of your best scorers and the big east defender of the year. Granted we didn't play our usualy game either, so its impossible to predict the outcome had mcNeal been healthy, but finishing top 20 in the nation is nothing to look past. We didn't even finish ranked this year and had our goals set on just making this tournament. You have made is the past 4 of 6 seasons or so w/ a final 4 and brand new facilities. Give it time, you guys return most of you players next season and are destined for a good regular season and a good run in the tourney...guaranteed. Good luck guys
Thanks for the props and good luck to you guys vs. NC. Izzo is one of my favorite coaches in college (other than Crean) and Stephens is a great assistant.
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Anyone calling for Crean's head is IN-F*CKING-SANE.
COMPLETELY insane.
I was a freshman during the final four run, and that was the best three weeks of my life.
My uncles have been obsessed with Marquette basketball and have pounded it into my head since I was five. I know what it was like before Crean. When has this program gotten consistent national exposure in the last 25 years - other than under Crean?
We just lost a game without our best player after getting screwed over in the seeding process. Relax. You're starting to sound like spoiled Duke, ND, and Kentucky fans. It's sickening.
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i look at it this way...crean goes as his assistants go. college basketball is as much about assistant coaches as anything else. they help the head coach deal with the more bureaucratic duties of catering to alumni and the student body for support. the assistant coaches are assigned a specific area of the game and are expected to do it well.
with recruiting, i'm sure that's more of collective effort, but the problem is crean doesn't have a coaching style. i don't think crean has decided was his coaching style is and that has led to much confusion as how to coach. the ncaas great coaches recruit for there system not necessarily because they are five star recruits. (unless of course you're roy williams, but even he gets them to play together). just think of these following coaches and their subsequent styles...
bo ryan...swing offense, hard nose defense
tom izzo...offensive consistency (no matter who is on the floor), lock down defense
roy williams...run run run, solid defense
john belein...princeton style offense, makes mediocre players look great in his system
the list goes on...tom crean's style is to fill his roster with talent (or potential talent) and coach them on the fly...does he really have a plan? every team that he has fielded over the past three or four seasons has been coached differently (or at least played differing styles).
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This is the type of thread that will get us ridiculed on ESPN (like Kentucky, but much worse). When you have a coach with potential and current ability of Tom Crean, you don't let him go.
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Any talk of Coach Crean's ouster is insane. Just look at this season: We started the conference schedule with 2 losses. Following a couple of disappointing non-conference defeats, Wisconsin and ND State, those two losses--to Providence and Syracuse--had us reeling. I mean, we were at that point rethinking our season, seriously looking at a sub-500 conference run. I think we've taken what happened next for granted. I don't know what he did, but I believe it was some world class coaching, motivating, focusing, circling the wagons that brought us out of that hole.
I would hope there would come a point where we could let go of the probation period and just embrace our coach. We need to understand that the pendulum swings with all programs (see: UConn, Syracuse), and instead of overreacting after another early exit in March, we should count our blessings and realize that a lean year in the Crean era would be counted as a rich one at any other time in the past 30 years.
Since he's been here, we've been competitive. Remember when Bob Huggins owned Conference USA? That was before Coach Crean got here. And the move to the Big East has not been a reach for this program.
We'll make our deep tourney runs, and when they come let's enjoy them. I think there's a satisfaction in winning, an extra measure of satisfaction, when you've been faithful through the lean years too. I mean to say that our coach has put this program on his back, and taken it a long way, and he's earned our support. Sure, we can discuss recruiting, x's and o's, all that, but let's not talk about starting over.
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I LOVE COACH CREAN!!! HE IS A GODSEND TO THIS UNIVERSITY AND MY DEGREE WILL GET ME MORE MONEY WHEN I GRADUATE IN A FEW YEARS BECAUSE OF THE PRESTIGE HE HAS GIVEN THIS UNIVERSITY!! just throwing that out there. ;D
Trust me when you graduate, it is not like "O hey I went to Marquette, how bout you offer me a 100k job"
This will not happen unless you are super lucky.
I was alot like you when I was a student, I figured they just give out jobs to college graduates, just because you are a graduate. I quickly learned that this was not the case, and I struggled trying to find a job that I was qualified for, in fact I was having such bad luck that I took a Job baking bread at Pick N Save for 8.50 an hour and believe me working from 4 Am to 12 Noon is a really wake up call to the real world. Than to add insult to injury, I had an even harder time finding a job because Employeers wanted to know why a college graduate with great grades was working at A Pick N Save, Luckily I was hired by True Green Chem lawn doing a blue collar job that had the white collare title of "Route Manager" this got me back out on to my feet, but I was so Jaded with the world that I now work in a tiny company that produces television infomercials.
It took me 3 years to realize that nobody gives you a job, you got to hustle like your a time share salesman and hopefully you strike a cord with someone.
CREAN WILL NOT GET U A JOB!!!
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here are a few right now:
Donnie Jones
http://www.gatorzone.com/billydonovan/?sub=staff&page=jones_full
Dana Altman
http://www.gocreighton.com/items_of_interest/bios.asp?BiosID=68
I would also look in the DII and DIII ranks also
Dana Altman just went one and done....why is it ok for him?
In fact, Dana has now gone "one and done" 5 times and has never reached the Sweet 16. His NCAA record is 2-7. Explain to me again why this would be an upgrade?
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TC has done more for this program than anyone not named Al McGuire. This was an infuriating way to go out. But let us step into the way back machine. 20+ years ago, a few influential alumni gave Majerus so much grief about not being Al that he "resigned" to take an assistant's job with the Bucks. The word on campus when we came back to school that fall was that he was forced out. The rap on him was that he couldn't coach, couldn't recruit....blah, blah, blah. So we got the best coach available, Dukiet. TC haters be careful what you wish for. It is unlikely that we will get a coach who works as hard for the university as TC does, or who views MU as something other than a stepping stone, a la K O'N. So if you want us to become like DePaul, or Rutgers, or Seton Hall, keep wishing him gone. When the unintended consequences come around and bite you in the ass, and we go 8-20 and 2-14 in the league under our 3rd coach on 5 years, remember how much you hated TC, and how glad you are he is gone. Nutjobs.
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A couple of things from our Mexico City office while unable to fly home because of the snow.
1. Kevin O'Neill was poised to have a long successful run at MU. He consistently was bringing in top notch classes and it was paying off. There's a reason why Deane's record is as solid as it is. He inherited a very solid team. I would say what O'Neill did at MU was even more impressive than what Crean has done because of where he was starting from. So Crean isn't the only guy who could be successful here. O'Neill's teams, good as they were, were just abysmal as far as entertainment value. Horrible, ugly games.
2. I am to the point that I expect us to lose in post season tournaments. I expected us to lose to Saint John's until we found out their big guy was out, I fully expected to lose to Pitt, and I fully expected we would lose to MSU yesterday. I am a huge fan and I don't want to be that way and I went to the BE tournament and everything, but that's just the feeling I get.
3. Despite the above, Crean absolutely should stay. I think he's got Gene Keady syndrome. His teams generally play at their highest level all year and don't have another gear come tournament time. Couple that with our puzzling crappy seeding depriving us from more favorite early tournament matchups, and you get the bad results we've seen.
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Tower, I've been saying this the entire year....careful what you wish for MU fans.
If you look at 99.5% of the head coaches of NCAA DI schools over the years, they almost all have multiple first year exits. That includes coach K, coach Knight, coach Dean Smith, Donovan, etc, etc, etc. And idiot fans on their boards react the same way.
People let their emotions overtake any sense of reason and reality.....they are on ledge ready to jump half the time.
I divide the season up each year into three silos. Non-conference. Conference. Post Season.
I give us a B+ for non-conference. B for conference. C for post-season (without McNeal, close to giving it an incomplete.)
Overall, a B for the season which is about what I expected.
Next year, assuming everyone comes back and there are no critical injuries, I would be extremely disappointed with a one and done next year. IF everyone comes back
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I give us a B+ for non-conference. B for conference. C for post-season (without McNeal, close to giving it an incomplete.)
I wish you were grading me back when I was in school. C for postseason? D- is more like it. Other grades are fair enough.
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A couple of things from our Mexico City office while unable to fly home because of the snow.
1. Kevin O'Neill was poised to have a long successful run at MU. He consistently was bringing in top notch classes and it was paying off. There's a reason why Deane's record is as solid as it is. He inherited a very solid team. I would say what O'Neill did at MU was even more impressive than what Crean has done because of where he was starting from. So Crean isn't the only guy who could be successful here. O'Neill's teams, good as they were, were just abysmal as far as entertainment value. Horrible, ugly games.
Kevin O'Neill may have taken over a MU program worse off than the one inherited by Tom Crean, but he certainly did not lead it to equal heights. No Final Fours, obviously, one good tourney run, one one-and-done and three seasons of nothing. The cupard was pretty bare when he arrived, but not significantly more so than Crean's. Tony Smith was an excellent player who went on to a long NBA career. Trevor Powell and Ty Baldwin were decent college players. Tom Crean had a very good college player in Brian Wardle, solid guys in Cordell Henry and Nnamaka and that's about all.
As far as O'Neill being poised for a long successful run at MU: hogwash. He wanted out and he bailed at the first decent opportunity.
Likewise, as good of a coach and recruiter as KO was, he was a miserable PR man for the university. He offended alumni at nearly every turn and treated students like crap. I may be mistaken here, but I believe the university's ability to get the McGuire Center done under Kevin O'Neill would have been markedly lower.
I was a KO fan, having been at MU when he took over and seen firsthand the progress he made with the program. But no way did he do more for the program than has Tom Crean.
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I give us a B+ for non-conference. B for conference. C for post-season (without McNeal, close to giving it an incomplete.)
I wish you were grading me back when I was in school. C for postseason? D- is more like it. Other grades are fair enough.
Well, let's see. We beat St. John's. We lost to a higher seed Pitt. We lost an 8-9 matchup in the NCAAs. All without our best player. If we had our best player and had those same results, then I would agree without. But we didn't, so it's hard for me to penalize the team ....that's why I would argue an incomplete might be more accurate. You can't take 15 points out of the lineup and the Big East Defensive Player of the year 1 game before Post Season starts and think it won't have an effect.
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Well, let's see. We beat St. John's. We lost to a higher seed Pitt. We lost an 8-9 matchup in the NCAAs. All without our best player. If we had our best player and had those same results, then I would agree without. But we didn't, so it's hard for me to penalize the team ....that's why I would argue an incomplete might be more accurate. You can't take 15 points out of the lineup and the Big East Defensive Player of the year 1 game before Post Season starts and think it won't have an effect.
Saint John's is horrible and they were missing far and away their best player, and we let them hang around for a lot longer than we should have. It's not so much that we lost to Pitt and MSU, its that the games were over with 15 minutes to go. We weren't competetive in the games. If we had McNeal and these results, F would have been the grade.
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As far as O'Neill being poised for a long successful run at MU: hogwash. He wanted out and he bailed at the first decent opportunity.
Likewise, as good of a coach and recruiter as KO was, he was a miserable PR man for the university. He offended alumni at nearly every turn and treated students like crap. I may be mistaken here, but I believe the university's ability to get the McGuire Center done under Kevin O'Neill would have been markedly lower.
I admit to having too great a fondness for KO because after Dukiet killed the program I thought MU hoops would never recover.
Yours are good points, but my real point is that it is not the unbelievably difficult task some would have you believe to be successful at MU. I do think if KO stayed we would have had a nice run as a top 25 team. His top talent may be a shade beneath Crean's, but his teams had lots of depth. But he certainly lacked loyalty, so good bye and good riddance. I'd rather have Crean now. but I'd really rather have Crean and a couple of big, strong 6-9 guys who could play basketball.
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The MSU game definitely over with 15 minutes to go....hell, I thought it was over at halftime. I don't agree on the Pitt game....we were under 10 with 10 minutes to play.
We will never know since McNeal didn't play.....next year should be a fun year. Top 4 Big East finish, top 6 NCAA seed and hopefully a Sweet 16 appearance....IF everyone comes back and no critical injuries.
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The MSU game definitely over with 15 minutes to go....hell, I thought it was over at halftime. I don't agree on the Pitt game....we were under 10 with 10 minutes to play.
C'mon Chicos, tell the truth. Was there any point in that Pitt game after there were 15 minutes to go that you really thought we might pull the game out?
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The MSU game definitely over with 15 minutes to go....hell, I thought it was over at halftime. I don't agree on the Pitt game....we were under 10 with 10 minutes to play.
C'mon Chicos, tell the truth. Was there any point in that Pitt game after there were 15 minutes to go that you really thought we might pull the game out?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't MU down only three at halftime?
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15 minutes to go comes after halftime. They pulled away early in the second half and we never seriously threatened after that.
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Knock off the fire Crean talk. Who else could get decent players to come to Marquette? The program was in the dumper, and on the verge of becoming just like Loyola of Chicago (even played in the same lame conference for a few years) before Kevin O'Neill and Tom Crean arived in Milwaukee. We all have to realize that MU is no Duke, North Carolina or Florida. What is the draw for top notch players to come to Marquette? Crean has the knowledge and likability factor and can convince some top players to come to MU, despite the negatives for some kids, like the urban campus or cold weather. People who want to fire Crean didn't have to suffer thorough the Bob Dukiet and Mike Deane years. Crean had everything to do with College Gameday coming to MU that kind of publicity used to be unheard of at Marquette in the 80's and 90's.
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15 minutes to go comes after halftime. They pulled away early in the second half and we never seriously threatened after that.
Actually, it was a five-point game at the 12:39-minute mark of the second half.
http://ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/gamecenter/playbyplay/NCAAB_20070308_MARQET@PITT
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The answer is an unequivocal "Yes".
Since Tom Crean's arrival, Marquette has:
- appeared in four NCAAs in the last six years, a better record than any MU coach since Hank Raymond (who, let's face it, didn't have to rebuild the program the way Crean has).
- spent more than twice as many weeks in the AP top 25 than in the previous 15 years combined.
- earned an invitation to one of the nation's premiere conferences
- appeared in a Final Four
- landed the best player and most positive advertisement for Marquette University ever
- built one of the premiere athletic facilities in the nation
- seen MU home games become some of the best attended in all of NCAA Division I, setting several attendance records along the way
Is Tom Crean alone responsible for all this? No. But he's certainly the primary figure in all these occurrences and because of that, he's worth every dime.
I didn't get to read the rest of this stimulating thread ::) but let me guess at the responses of the posters who only spew negativity or only show up after a disappointing loss
- appeared in four NCAAs in the last six years, a better record than any MU coach since Hank Raymond (who, let's face it, didn't have to rebuild the program the way Crean has).
Yea but Al was great and TC is no Al.
- spent more than twice as many weeks in the AP top 25 than in the previous 15 years combined.
Yea but Al was great and TC is no Al.
- earned an invitation to one of the nation's premiere conferences.
TC had nothing to do with that. It was MU the institution that got us an invitation.
- appeared in a Final Four
That was DWade. TC had nothing to do with that.
- landed the best player and most positive advertisement for Marquette University ever
TC was lucky.
- built one of the premiere athletic facilities in the nation
That was DWade. TC had nothing to do with that
- seen MU home games become some of the best attended in all of NCAA Division I, setting several attendance records along the way
Yea but Al used to sellout his games and why are we nagged to wear gold. We are adults and can wear whatever we want. Damn that TC.
4 out of our last 6 years (okay 4 out of 8 for all the bashers out there) we have made the NCAA and reached one final four appearance with a very good chance of being 5 out of 7 (5 out of 9 for you know who). I don't recall too many post season successes since 1980 so I will gladly take another 4 out of 6 with another deep run.
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Pitt game was much closer than the score - fitz got in foul trouble and went to the bench, we cooled down.
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Does Al win it all in 77 without Butch Lee?
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This is the type of garbage that put MU basketball program in the dumpster 25 years ago. Seems like a lot of people are just waiting to be losers again. Can't stand a fair amount of success. So let's destroy the stability in recruiting, destroy the program development, destroy the national exposure, destroy the ranking because our pride was hurt because we lost in the first round in the NCAA. I see the big "L" tattooed to your foreheads.
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What garbage are you referring to? Understand that this is a very long thread where the majority is debating one or two dissenters. And one of these dissenters would rather incite the masses with ignorant posts. And guess what, it works. So much so that too many of us respond with, "why is everyone calling for Crean's head?" Truth is "everyone" is one guy. IMHO, ignore him and he'll go away until the next loss.
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agreed, SoCal, one guy ranting too much doesn't make for a movement. I probably criticize TC too much but certainly don't want a change; I just want to continue to see improvement. In his coaching(bench and planning), his recruiting(I ordered some real bigs, didn't I?), MU's support of BBall(amazed at the level already), community's support of MU (maybe even fair treatment from JS), and the inevitable success(man, am I impatient).