One more scholarship...

[El Duderino]

Are you going to play this line until you die?

LOL.  

Travis Diener 29 points against Holy Cross....Wade with 15.  Without Diener that game, we lose.  

Diener 26 points against Missouri....Novak with 14 including 9 in OT....Wade with 24.

Pittsburgh...Merritt had 17 points...Jackson 16 points...Wade 22.

Robert Jackson, Scott Merritt, Bradley, Townsend, Diener, Novak, etc, etc.  That was a great team with great players.  D-Wade is an all world player.  You seem to have a tough time coming to terms with the fact that as good as Wade is, without those other guys playing their part and even EXCEEDING Wade at times, MU doesn't get to that Final Four.

Teams go to the Final Four...not one player.  You make it sound like Wade put the team on his back and willed them to the Final Four which could not be further from the truth.  Keep playing this line.  If you would like, I can send you some DVD's of those first three games as apparently you missed them.

No question that just one single player wouldn't be good enough to basically on his own get a team to the Final Four if the rest of his team pretty much sucked, unless it was some stud like say a once in a generation big man in the Wilt Chamberlain or Kareem class.

Then again, i question if that team could have even just made the NCAA Tournament if Wade was on the team? I'd say it's about 50/50.

Of course if you remove the best player off any Final Four team, odds are the vast majority of them also wouldn't have made it that far. From team to team that advances that far, each can be different in regards to how much better their best player is compared to the rest of the guys on their team.

Wade though was so incredibly good that he was more like a better version of Kemba Walker in that he was by far the main focus of opposing teams compared to a team like say Kansas this year who is really good, but opposing teams don't generally have to worry that one guy can completely take over a game as Wade could. Opposing coaches had to go into each game building their game plan around containing Wade.

So while i don't think that Marquette team was at all just Wade and largely a bunch of scrubs, he was without any question the main reason MU got to the Final Four. It was more a solid supporting cast and a guy who has become an NBA superstar.

Regardless though if people disagree on how good that supporting cast was around Wade, i don't see how anyone could make an argument which diminishes Crean's role in MU reaching the Final Four. Crean brought in Wade, he didn't arrive out of thin air, so the coach deserves that credit. Sports are a bottom line business and with the massive impact college coaches have as to how their team ends up doing via recruiting/coaching the players on a team, barring bad luck with injuries, the coach deserves the vast majority of credit or blame for how a team does.

I still have issues with how Crean left and his seemingly regular job shopping while at Marquette, i won't ever discredit the successes he did bring the university. Without those successes, we may not have been invited to the Big East and that win vs Kentucky was probably my favorite game in Marquette history to watch.

[marquette99]

Unreal - have to wonder if he watched the wvu game before making the final commitment.  Maybe he didn't want to getthe abuse mitchell was taking from huggy.

Welcometo MU!!!!!!

[MountainCreekHouse]

He'll have to rock the 90s T-shirt under the jersey look then I guess

HELL YES

[Marquette84]

I find that to be a pretty illogical assumption, especially when you consider Buzz's history as Marquette's coach.

First, Singleton is a walk-on. I hope that he proves he can contribute more than an average walk-on, but the realistic expectation we should have is 1-4 minutes per game in the cupcake games of our schedule, and a combined 5-10 minutes during Big East play. If he exceeds that, great, but there is no reason anyone (including MUMac) should expect him to be a reliable 8-12 mpg guy just because he played at a school that doesn't compete remotely with the level of play he'd see in the Big East.

I think I've carved out the right ground on this. 

On one hand, I've got you arguing that we can't possibly assume Singleton will be an effective contributor.
On the other, I've got MUMac saying that sort of conclusion is unfair and unwarranted.

I'm in the middle--making no conclusion right now other than the fact that if we bring in another point, it will be a sign that Buzz doesn't think Singleton will be effective at that position.

Second, looking back to the James injury, I think that instead of asking if someone can be an effective backup, the correct question is can they be an effective starter if they are forced into action. With the walk-on ruled out (the same way we rule Frozena out of competitive play) you have one name on the list, which is Wilson. He has thus far a career total of zero minutes of D1 college basketball, which means that there's no completely accurate assessment of how he will perform if Junior were to go down.

Again, MUMac would argue that your comment about Singleton is unfair and uncalled for.

While you raise concerns about what might happen this year--I'm concerned about next year and the year after as well. 

My opinion is that we're not going to get an elite Big East point guard at this point of the recruiting cycle. If the opinion of the coaching staff is that WIlson and Singleton can't get it done, nobody they can get is going to give you any more confidence.  So we could take another guy this year, eliminate our chances of landing a 4- or 5- star point in the HS class of 2012, and complicate the transition when the JUCO, Singleton and Cadougan all graduate in the same year.

If Buzz's offense has no Junior Cadougan due to injury, and suddenly Wilson is forced to the bench for 10-15 minutes/game because he's a freshman incapable of playing 38+ mpg, wouldn't it be nice to have another point on the roster? It's all about options. Buzz proved that his team can succeed without many options at the 15-seed. I don't feel that same confidence at the point.

You're only thinking short term, and I'm thinking long term.  Yes, I understand we run some risk next year--but I think our chances at landing an elite-level PG in the 2012 HS class is significantly improved if we don't take a JUCO now.  And I think we need that elite-level PG to move up in the BE standings.

[NersEllenson]

No question that just one single player wouldn't be good enough to basically on his own get a team to the Final Four if the rest of his team pretty much sucked, unless it was some stud like say a once in a generation big man in the Wilt Chamberlain or Kareem class.

Then again, i question if that team could have even just made the NCAA Tournament if Wade was on the team? I'd say it's about 50/50.

Of course if you remove the best player off any Final Four team, odds are the vast majority of them also wouldn't have made it that far. From team to team that advances that far, each can be different in regards to how much better their best player is compared to the rest of the guys on their team.

Wade though was so incredibly good that he was more like a better version of Kemba Walker in that he was by far the main focus of opposing teams compared to a team like say Kansas this year who is really good, but opposing teams don't generally have to worry that one guy can completely take over a game as Wade could. Opposing coaches had to go into each game building their game plan around containing Wade.

So while i don't think that Marquette team was at all just Wade and largely a bunch of scrubs, he was without any question the main reason MU got to the Final Four. It was more a solid supporting cast and a guy who has become an NBA superstar.

Regardless though if people disagree on how good that supporting cast was around Wade, i don't see how anyone could make an argument which diminishes Crean's role in MU reaching the Final Four. Crean brought in Wade, he didn't arrive out of thin air, so the coach deserves that credit. Sports are a bottom line business and with the massive impact college coaches have as to how their team ends up doing via recruiting/coaching the players on a team, barring bad luck with injuries, the coach deserves the vast majority of credit or blame for how a team does.

I still have issues with how Crean left and his seemingly regular job shopping while at Marquette, i won't ever discredit the successes he did bring the university. Without those successes, we may not have been invited to the Big East and that win vs Kentucky was probably my favorite game in Marquette history to watch.

Agree 100% with all of your analysis...

[brewcity77]

So we could take another guy this year, eliminate our chances of landing a 4- or 5- star point in the HS class of 2012, and complicate the transition when the JUCO, Singleton and Cadougan all graduate in the same year.

You're only thinking short term, and I'm thinking long term.  Yes, I understand we run some risk next year--but I think our chances at landing an elite-level PG in the 2012 HS class is significantly improved if we don't take a JUCO now.  And I think we need that elite-level PG to move up in the BE standings.

I'm thinking both short and long term, and also think realistically in terms of which recruits we are currently involved with. We have a number of bigs in line for 2012: Stokes, Cleare, Nolan, Spencer. We have only one major point guard, a JUCO transfer in TJ Taylor, and it's unclear if he'll be a 2011, 2012, or 2013 transfer. If we could get Taylor, great. Otherwise, we seem to have better point options for 2011 with Guerrero and Dre Henley considering us.

I want that elite level point, but we don't yet know when Taylor will be available to transfer, and I don't see anyone who really fits that mold on our radar until 2013 with Stephen Clark or possibly Bronson Koenig, though I'm sure he'll end up at UNC with Tokoto. The elite level bigs are there next year.

[avid1010]

I wonder if other teams focusing on Wade allowed those guys to EXCEED Wade's play.

Are you going to play this line until you die?

LOL.  

Travis Diener 29 points against Holy Cross....Wade with 15.  Without Diener that game, we lose.  

Diener 26 points against Missouri....Novak with 14 including 9 in OT....Wade with 24.

Pittsburgh...Merritt had 17 points...Jackson 16 points...Wade 22.

Robert Jackson, Scott Merritt, Bradley, Townsend, Diener, Novak, etc, etc.  That was a great team with great players.  D-Wade is an all world player.  You seem to have a tough time coming to terms with the fact that as good as Wade is, without those other guys playing their part and even EXCEEDING Wade at times, MU doesn't get to that Final Four.

Teams go to the Final Four...not one player.  You make it sound like Wade put the team on his back and willed them to the Final Four which could not be further from the truth.  Keep playing this line.  If you would like, I can send you some DVD's of those first three games as apparently you missed them.

[NersEllenson]

Are you going to play this line until you die?

LOL.  

Travis Diener 29 points against Holy Cross....Wade with 15.  Without Diener that game, we lose.  

Diener 26 points against Missouri....Novak with 14 including 9 in OT....Wade with 24.

Pittsburgh...Merritt had 17 points...Jackson 16 points...Wade 22.

Robert Jackson, Scott Merritt, Bradley, Townsend, Diener, Novak, etc, etc.  That was a great team with great players.  D-Wade is an all world player.  You seem to have a tough time coming to terms with the fact that as good as Wade is, without those other guys playing their part and even EXCEEDING Wade at times, MU doesn't get to that Final Four.

Teams go to the Final Four...not one player.  You make it sound like Wade put the team on his back and willed them to the Final Four which could not be further from the truth.  Keep playing this line.  If you would like, I can send you some DVD's of those first three games as apparently you missed them.

Where you fail in your basketball evaluation is to understand the impact 1 player can make on a team's performance.  We've aruged over and over and over about the 2004 team - return every player except Wade and RJax and you are an NIT team??  That gets beat in Round 1??  EVERY player from that Final Four team returned except Wade and RJax and you fall off that badly??

Wade = Kemba Walker to UCONN this year.  Take WAde off that team and Diener, Novak and RJax aren't nearly as good.I agree that you must have a good team to go to a Final Four..but I subsribe more to the fact that you must have an ELITE type of player to get to one.  Think about thatyear - TJ Ford, Carmelo Anthony, Wade and Hinrich - those are 4 Top 8 draft picks in the NBA draft..

[TVDirector]

if Buzz thinks Singleton is capable as a backup or backup to the backup, we'll know pretty soon.
without seeing the 5 new warriors for next year play, who knows what they can or will contribute to the team.
I'd imagine Wilson is a major minutes guy early on- the rest?
can't bank on frosh.
bringing in a juco in any position will be telling as to how comfy Buzz is with his current guys.

I'm in the camp that he'll take a flier on a project- or bank.
unless a humungous talent becomes available.

but then again, what the hell do I know?


will be interesting to see how the scholie situation plays out.

[MUMac]

Watch out . . . MUMac thinks any comment expressing doubt in Singleton's ability is unfair and uncalled for.

Show me where I ever said that?  Come on, you so love to get into these "fact" based pissing matches, so I suspect you can come up with it.  My comment about your weak comments stands on it's own merits.  You have ZERO knowledge if he is a player or not, yet you stated it as a fact.  Weak, very weak, but not unexpected from you.  Not at all.

[ChicosBailBonds]

No question that just one single player wouldn't be good enough to basically on his own get a team to the Final Four if the rest of his team pretty much sucked, unless it was some stud like say a once in a generation big man in the Wilt Chamberlain or Kareem class.

Then again, i question if that team could have even just made the NCAA Tournament if Wade was on the team? I'd say it's about 50/50.

You don't think a team with Diener, Novak, Merritt, Jackson, Townsend, etc could have made the NCAA tournament?

[MUMac]

I think I've carved out the right ground on this.  

On one hand, I've got you arguing that we can't possibly assume Singleton will be an effective contributor.
On the other, I've got MUMac saying that sort of conclusion is unfair and unwarranted.

I'm in the middle--making no conclusion right now other than the fact that if we bring in another point, it will be a sign that Buzz doesn't think Singleton will be effective at that position.

Again, MUMac would argue that your comment about Singleton is unfair and uncalled for.

While you raise concerns about what might happen this year--I'm concerned about next year and the year after as well.  

My opinion is that we're not going to get an elite Big East point guard at this point of the recruiting cycle. If the opinion of the coaching staff is that WIlson and Singleton can't get it done, nobody they can get is going to give you any more confidence.  So we could take another guy this year, eliminate our chances of landing a 4- or 5- star point in the HS class of 2012, and complicate the transition when the JUCO, Singleton and Cadougan all graduate in the same year.


You're only thinking short term, and I'm thinking long term.  Yes, I understand we run some risk next year--but I think our chances at landing an elite-level PG in the 2012 HS class is significantly improved if we don't take a JUCO now.  And I think we need that elite-level PG to move up in the BE standings.

Wow, I am so honored that the great, in his own mind, SJS is so PO'd with me that he will take every opportunity to mention me.  It does, though, make me wonder if you have a comprehension issue.  It certainly does appear to be so.

I look forward to future whining from SJS about MUMac.  Kind of honored that one of the more obnoxious posters is upset with me.  

[romey]

Because another school could offer him one.

Ah, makes sense.  Then if he's deemed worthy, then ball all means, lock him up.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Where you fail in your basketball evaluation is to understand the impact 1 player can make on a team's performance.  We've aruged over and over and over about the 2004 team - return every player except Wade and RJax and you are an NIT team??  That gets beat in Round 1??  EVERY player from that Final Four team returned except Wade and RJax and you fall off that badly??

Wade = Kemba Walker to UCONN this year.  Take WAde off that team and Diener, Novak and RJax aren't nearly as good.I agree that you must have a good team to go to a Final Four..but I subsribe more to the fact that you must have an ELITE type of player to get to one.  Think about thatyear - TJ Ford, Carmelo Anthony, Wade and Hinrich - those are 4 Top 8 draft picks in the NBA draft..

Where you fail is that Diener played hurt the year after (and the year after that), Merritt had surgery in the offseason and was not the same player.  MU now had a target on their back, etc, etc.  Losing RJAX was a huge blow.

I get it, we all get it...Wade opened up tremendous opportunities for the other players.  But to suggest he was the ONLY reason, which is what you continue to say, is just flat wrong.  D-Wade would say the same thing.  It's a slap in the face to Diener, Novak, RJax, Merritt, Bradley, Townsend, Chapman, Sanders, etc.


Using your same logic...with MU "only losing" Lazar Hayward, Acker and Cubes (two of the three often crapped on here as poor players), why is MU finishing 9th and struggling more this year than last?  Hmm...could it be because each year is different?  Each schedule is different?  That missing a role player or two can have a huge impact just as missing the star of the team?

[Lennys Tap]

You don't think a team with Diener, Novak, Merritt, Jackson, Townsend, etc could have made the NCAA tournament?

Well, a team with Diener, Novak, Merritt, Townsend and every other "etc" from the final 4 team (less Jackson) DIDN'T make the dance.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well, a team with Diener, Novak, Merritt, Townsend and every other "etc" from the final 4 team (less Jackson) DIDN'T make the dance.

Forgive me for not putting in the assumed qualifier.  

Do you think a HEALTHY team of Diener, Novak, Merritt, Townsend, Chapman, Jackson could have made the NCAAs?

[NersEllenson]

Where you fail is that Diener played hurt the year after (and the year after that), Merritt had surgery in the offseason and was not the same player.  MU now had a target on their back, etc, etc.  Losing RJAX was a huge blow.

I get it, we all get it...Wade opened up tremendous opportunities for the other players.  But to suggest he was the ONLY reason, which is what you continue to say, is just flat wrong.  D-Wade would say the same thing.  It's a slap in the face to Diener, Novak, RJax, Merritt, Bradley, Townsend, Chapman, Sanders, etc.


Using your same logic...with MU "only losing" Lazar Hayward, Acker and Cubes (two of the three often crapped on here as poor players), why is MU finishing 9th and struggling more this year than last?  Hmm...could it be because each year is different?  Each schedule is different?  That missing a role player or two can have a huge impact just as missing the star of the team?

Sorry but Diener and Merritt both played in every game in 2003-2004 and their minutes per game were virtually identical to the 2002-2003 season..so I really don't think citing injuries as an excuse has any "merritt."  Pun intended.  What was significantly different is that Novak's minutes went from 16 minutes in 2002/03 season to 29 minutes in 2003/04.  At the end of the day...the drop off in performance from 2003 team to 2004 team was significant and Robert Jackson being gone was NOT the reason...nor did it have to do with Travis, Merritt, Steve, Todd, Karon, Joe C..not being solid players...it simply had to do with them no longer playing with one of the Top 5 players IN THE WORLD of the decade of 2000-2010.  

We ccan agree that basketball is a team game..but teams with  ELITE players and solid supporting casts are the teams that win championships and Final Fours..Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Bird.  No Wade alone could not have gotten MU to a Final Four...but he is the single most important player, reason, catalyst for that team's succedss.  Period.

[ChicosBailBonds]

We ccan agree that basketball is a team game..but teams with  ELITE players and solid supporting casts are the teams that win championships and Final Fours..Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Bird.  No Wade alone could not have gotten MU to a Final Four...but he is the single most important player, reason, catalyst for that team's succedss.  Period.

Hey...we've made progress....I agree with this.  You need elite players to go far.  But you said Wade was the ONLY reason.  So why are you backtracking now?  There are numerous teams with great players that never made the Final Four because they didn't have the players around them.  Shaquille O'Neal comes to mind.  Tim Duncan comes to mind.  Pete Maravich.  I could rattle off probably 25 elite players that didn't get there because it's more than just one player.  So I don't know what made you switch now to my way of thinking, but I'm glad you came around.  It's a team sport and without all the parts, elite players aren't enough to do it.

Glad we finally agree....maybe now you can stop with your nonsense that says I don't understand that Wade was the "sole" or "only" reason we made the Final Four.  You just proved it yourself.  Welcome to the party.

[rocky_warrior]

Split this off since it was so far divergent from the Mayo commitment, but, now I'll lock it for going off topic from the off-topic.