One more scholarship...

[chren21]

Anyone know how d Wilson has performed this year?

[avid1010]

A walk-on Sophomore we don't think is a capable backup

Buzz said he'll play next year and surprise people.  Who knows if Buzz is playing with people, but "we" all haven't written him off as a capable backup.

[GGGG]

Then why doesn't he just give him the scholarship?

[tower912]

They still might.    Wes said he was the most impressive guy at the pro-am.   Another poster on here has said he is the best guard on the team in practice.   Why throw the guy under the bus needlessly?

[romey]

Then why doesn't he just give him the scholarship?

may I ask a "stupid" questions without getting lambasted on this board?  If he's a walk on and he's going to be on the team next year, why give him a scholarship?  Let's get another capable player with the scholarship.  I understand it "would be the right thing to do" for the kid if he's earned it.  But unless there's just no one left out there worthy of the last scholarship.............?

[Sharpie]

I'm not sure why I ever read some threads after the first page because they are never about what the topic is.

[El Duderino]

Unless TJ Taylor is available. I'm not sure how his recruitment will work, but he should be eligible as a JUCO sophomore transfer, similar to Butler and DJO. If he can transfer after this year, he could come in next year as a sophomore, giving us a junior, sophomore, and freshman point next year.

But I'm not positive he will be available as a 2011 recruit, he may need to be a 2012 because he committed to Oklahoma (though never played there).

My view on JUCO kids is pretty simple

If they can come in and play at a high level right away along with represent the university well off the court, bring them on so long as there are quality high school kids being brought in also.

Given i'm not sold on Junior developing into a consistently good starting PG pretty much night in/night out for next year and Wilson will only be a freshman, i'd be somewhat OK with bringing in a JUCO point guard, but would need two things answered.

1. Is the JUCO point guard a big time talent to where he could be expected to perform at a high level right away as guys like DJO, Butler, and Crowder have? If not, there is no reason to bother.

2. I don't know much about Wilson. Does Buzz and his staff think that Wilson is far enough advanced to be at least a 10-15 minute a game contributor as a freshman?

Someone will have to be in place to give Junior minutes to rest and/or play significant minutes on night that Junior isn't playing well.

[GGGG]

may I ask a "stupid" questions without getting lambasted on this board?  If he's a walk on and he's going to be on the team next year, why give him a scholarship? 

Because another school could offer him one.

[El Duderino]

may I ask a "stupid" questions without getting lambasted on this board?  If he's a walk on and he's going to be on the team next year, why give him a scholarship?  Let's get another capable player with the scholarship.  I understand it "would be the right thing to do" for the kid if he's earned it.  But unless there's just no one left out there worthy of the last scholarship.............?

For most walk-ons at major programs, they stay in that status until they become a regular contributor, not a guy playing a few minutes here and there.

If though at some point Singleton does become a regular part of the playing rotation, the program should do the right thing and give that guy a scholarship the next season if one does open up.

The reason why should be simple, the kid will have earned it and college athletics should be about rewarding kids who do good things for the university/program, not just what's better for the program.

Plus, other walk-ons pay attention to this kind of stuff. One reason Wisconsin football generally gets quality walk-ons to join their program is that their program not only gives them legit chances to play, if the kids do perform, they are given a scholarship.

[MUMac]

Because another school could offer him one.

Nope, they couldn't.  He is enrolled at MU and on the team.  Even though not on scholarship, he is not recruitable.  He could decide to go elsewhere on his own, but he would need to make that decision first.

Doubt, though, that would happen.  He came he following his coach from High Point.

[Marquette84]

Who is this "we" you speak of.  Has there been someone who has been at practice all year that has been commenting on his play?  I have no idea if he is capable or not.  I suspect no one else on this board does either. 

If we think we are solid with a starting PG, a backup PG, and another backup PG--then we don't need to recruit yet another JUCO PG. 

The only reason to suggest that we would recruit another PG--JUCO or otherwise--is because we feel that the two backup PG options we have aren't capable.

So if we do recruit a JUCO point guard this year it will complicate playing time and rotations for the next two years, and create a problem in 2013-14 when both Cadougan and the JUCO point guard graduate.

[MUMac]

If we think we are solid with a starting PG, a backup PG, and another backup PG--then we don't need to recruit yet another JUCO PG. 

The only reason to suggest that we would recruit another PG--JUCO or otherwise--is because we feel that the two backup PG options we have aren't capable.

So if we do recruit a JUCO point guard this year it will complicate playing time and rotations for the next two years, and create a problem in 2013-14 when both Cadougan and the JUCO point guard graduate.

My comment was solely focused on your comment about Singleton.  That is why I deleted all the other comments you made.  I thought your comment was unfair and uncalled for.  Neither you, nor I, know if Singleton is capable or not.  Yet, you said "we", inferring the majority, believe he is not capable.

[El Duderino]

If we think we are solid with a starting PG, a backup PG, and another backup PG--then we don't need to recruit yet another JUCO PG. 

The only reason to suggest that we would recruit another PG--JUCO or otherwise--is because we feel that the two backup PG options we have aren't capable.

So if we do recruit a JUCO point guard this year it will complicate playing time and rotations for the next two years, and create a problem in 2013-14 when both Cadougan and the JUCO point guard graduate.

Who will be the two backup point guards next year that you are currently including?

Besides Wilson and a walk on that none of us know yet if he can play PG at a Big East level, i don't see two backups because i'd never count a walk on who has yet to play at all. Now maybe Singleton is actually much better than your typical scrubby walk on that mainly just waives a towel on the bench and comes in late in blowouts, but only Buzz and his staff would know that.

[wadesworld]

I'm not going to lie...I find it weird how you frequently come to Chicos defense.  He is a grown man after all, pretty sure he can fend for himself.  Even more weird, that you defend a dude with an anti Buzz agenda...assuming you are an MU fan?  Or are you too just a Tom Crean lackey and thus why you defend Chicos? 

Here was my Facebook status on Wednesday after somebody (not sure who) so kindly put together the table of Tom Crean's record at Indiana:

"Indiana since Tom Crean became coach:
08-09: 6-25 overall, 1-17 in Big Ten, last place in Big 10
09-10: 10-21 overall, 4-14 in Big Ten, 9th place in Big 10
10-11: 12-19 overall, 3-15 in Big Ten, last place in Big 10
Overall records: 28-65 (.301) overall, 8-45 in Big 10 (.148)

It's Indiana, It's Indiana!

Other Big 10 fans, be thankful for Tom Crean, he is the best thing that possibly could have happened for you."

That should tell you everything you need to know about how I feel about Tom Crean.  Then a long discussion went on about how he was the most influential person at MU since Al, which I said other than D Wade I agree with that, and it went on about whether Crean is a good recruiter, a good coach, etc.  I hate the guy.  But I know he did a lot for Marquette and I know our program would not be where it is now if he had not been a part of it.

I defend Chicos because he did not say a word about Tom Crean or Buzz and yet you, for some reason, brought up Chicos.  I think that is weird.  Why did you do that?  If Chicos had said something about Crean being great and Buzz being dog sh!t I would have kept my thoughts to myself.  I don't care, you two can have your big boy arguments all day.  I usually skip right by them.  But when you just decide to bring him up it's pretty weird.

I enjoy reading Chicos's posts when they pertain to the subject.  I think he brings a good perspective to the board.  He doesn't sugar coat what he sees.  I appreciate that.  Some people (like you) want to call Buzz a Saint and a Hall of Fame coach.  That, to me, is boring.  I like to hear what people really see in Buzz.  Does that mean I think Buzz is crap?  Absolutely not.  Does that mean I hate Buzz?  Absolutely not.  Does that mean I love Crean?  Absolutely not.  Does that mean I think Buzz has a lot of room to improve?  Absolutely.  Is that bad?  No, he's in his 3rd year at Marquette.  He will get better, and he has gotten better.  Chicos is one of the few people on here who say what they see and doesn't care if other people think he's bashing the program.  I agree with him on quite a few of his points.  Do I hate Marquette basketball?  I love Marquette basketball with a passion.

Just saying, when you're bringing up Chicos based on something he said in the summer, and it's March, it's weird.  Argue with him when he says something you disagree with.  Leave him out of it when he hasn't said a thing.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So if a "5 star one and done" chose MU, you would take a pass on him and choose a 3 or 4 star that would play 4 years? Just wondering.

Honestly....I would take a 4 star for four years over a 5 star one and done.  Yes, not even a question.  I get 4 years of great basketball out of one kid vs 1 year of great basketball from the other.

[wadesworld]

Also I don't mind Buzz continuing to recruit JUCO players.  Who are the best players on this team?  JUCO players.  If they succeed on the court and in the classroom and do not do anything wrong on or off the court then I say keep them coming.  If they can step in and play then I am very happy with them.

If we start getting JUCOs who have off court issues, grade issues, or suck, then I will say cut the ties.  Until then, I see no problems with it.

[groove]

For fun lets get more specific. The five-star leads you to the national championship in that one year. The 4-star leads you to 2 sweet 16s, 1 final 8s and one final four, but no title. On the one hand you have the title to celebrate and maybe some added recruiting benefits, but on the other, you get more established in the long run and maybe more recruiting benefits.

You would have to throw in the question of how well the team would do in the three years after the 5-star left also

[mugrad2006]

Honestly....I would take a 4 star for four years over a 5 star one and done.  Yes, not even a question.  I get 4 years of great basketball out of one kid vs 1 year of great basketball from the other.

What if that five star was Brandon Knight or Kyrie Irving?  PG play was a HUGE area of need this year, I'd take those guys for one season in a heart beat.

[ChicosBailBonds]

For fun lets get more specific. The five-star leads you to the national championship in that one year. The 4-star leads you to 2 sweet 16s, 1 final 8s and one final four, but no title. On the one hand you have the title to celebrate and maybe some added recruiting benefits, but on the other, you get more established in the long run and maybe more recruiting benefits.

You would have to throw in the question of how well the team would do in the three years after the 5-star left also

Of course, I'd take the title.  Unfortunately, no crystal balls are issued with the recruits so we would never know that. 

[Marquette84]

My comment was solely focused on your comment about Singleton.  That is why I deleted all the other comments you made.  I thought your comment was unfair and uncalled for.  Neither you, nor I, know if Singleton is capable or not.  Yet, you said "we", inferring the majority, believe he is not capable.

I also conditioned the comment about Singleton based on our situation if we brought in another JUCO Point Guard.  That's the part you cut out. 

I don't understand what's unfair about making the observation that if we bring in another JUCO point guard to backup Cadougan for next season, the only reason we would do so is because we feel that the current options (which includes Singleton and Wilson) are not deemed capable of filling that role.

Who will be the two backup point guards next year that you are currently including?

Besides Wilson and a walk on that none of us know yet if he can play PG at a Big East level, i don't see two backups because i'd never count a walk on who has yet to play at all. Now maybe Singleton is actually much better than your typical scrubby walk on that mainly just waives a towel on the bench and comes in late in blowouts, but only Buzz and his staff would know that.

Watch out . . . MUMac thinks any comment expressing doubt in Singleton's ability is unfair and uncalled for.

Let me clarify for you.  Here's who I see as PGs on the roster next year:
1.  Cadougan
2.  Wilson
3.  Singleton.

By my count, that's two scholarship players plus a walk-on with D1 experience.  That SHOULD be sufficient.

I don't think we need a 4th PG with those three already on the roster--especially adding a JUCO that would result in three of our four PGs leaving the team at the end of the 2012-13 season.

If a 4th PG shows up next year, I'm going to assume its because Buzz Williams believes that neither Wilson nor Singleton can be an effective backup to Junior Cadougan.

[NersEllenson]

That should tell you everything you need to know about how I feel about Tom Crean.  Then a long discussion went on about how he was the most influential person at MU since Al, which I said other than D Wade I agree with that, and it went on about whether Crean is a good recruiter, a good coach, etc.  I hate the guy.  But I know he did a lot for Marquette and I know our program would not be where it is now if he had not been a part of it.

I enjoy reading Chicos's posts when they pertain to the subject.  I think he brings a good perspective to the board.  He doesn't sugar coat what he sees.  I appreciate that.  Some people (like you) want to call Buzz a Saint and a Hall of Fame coach.  That, to me, is boring.  I like to hear what people really see in Buzz.  Does that mean I think Buzz is crap?  Absolutely not.  Does that mean I hate Buzz?  Absolutely not.  Does that mean I love Crean?  Absolutely not.  Does that mean I think Buzz has a lot of room to improve?  Absolutely.  Is that bad?  No, he's in his 3rd year at Marquette.  He will get better, and he has gotten better.  Chicos is one of the few people on here who say what they see and doesn't care if other people think he's bashing the program.  I agree with him on quite a few of his points.  Do I hate Marquette basketball?  I love Marquette basketball with a passion.

Just saying, when you're bringing up Chicos based on something he said in the summer, and it's March, it's weird.  Argue with him when he says something you disagree with.  Leave him out of it when he hasn't said a thing.

Fair post.  But you do realize Chicos has a hard time coming to terms with the fact that D-Wade is the reason we went to the Final Four, correct??  He and I hve gone round and round about Wade's significance to the MU program and Final Four team.  Lastly, my only issue with the guy is his double standard whereby he defends the hell out of Tom Crean..yet doesn't offer the same to Buzz Williams.  It goes back to chicos exasperation at the hire of Buzz Williams..he was VERY disappointed.  Now that Buzz has pretty much done a very good job at MU...the guy tries to poke chinks in his armor.  Buzz is our coach..has done a hell of a job...if you or others here can't see that Buzz has "it," sorry...but you have a lot to learn with regard to evaluzting talent as far as a head coach in NCAA basketball is concerned.  Yes, Buzz isn't perfect..but what coach is??  The guy can flat out recruit, and motivate his players. 

[El Duderino]

Let me clarify for you.  Here's who I see as PGs on the roster next year:
1.  Cadougan
2.  Wilson
3.  Singleton.

By my count, that's two scholarship players plus a walk-on with D1 experience.  That SHOULD be sufficient.

I don't think we need a 4th PG with those three already on the roster--especially adding a JUCO that would result in three of our four PGs leaving the team at the end of the 2012-13 season.

If a 4th PG shows up next year, I'm going to assume its because Buzz Williams believes that neither Wilson nor Singleton can be an effective backup to Junior Cadougan.

I doubt that Buzz will try signing a JUCO PG, but if he did, my guess is it would be as telling about what he feels about Cadougan as how he felt about the backup PG situation. Then again, maybe that's just my concerns about Junior making me feel that way because i'm not sold on him being a high quality and consistent starting 30ishmpg PG for us next year. I hope those doubts are misplaced though.

There is also the unknown about Wilson for me. Point guard is a tough position for any freshman in a conference like the Big East, but of course some are able to step in an contribute effectively right away. I honestly have no clue what to expect from him.

That said, with what we should have coming back and especially Otule/Gardner a year more experienced, J.Wilson joining the team, and Anderson/Mayo, i think we have a chance to be pretty good. Point guard though looks to be my biggest concern and thus if and only if Buzz could land a top notch JUCO PG, then i'd be fine with that. It would only be one scholarship out of 12 and not something that would wreak havoc on the program even if it would be more ideal that the Wilson kid could contribute well as a freshman.

[brewcity77]

If a 4th PG shows up next year, I'm going to assume its because Buzz Williams believes that neither Wilson nor Singleton can be an effective backup to Junior Cadougan.

I find that to be a pretty illogical assumption, especially when you consider Buzz's history as Marquette's coach.

First, Singleton is a walk-on. I hope that he proves he can contribute more than an average walk-on, but the realistic expectation we should have is 1-4 minutes per game in the cupcake games of our schedule, and a combined 5-10 minutes during Big East play. If he exceeds that, great, but there is no reason anyone (including MUMac) should expect him to be a reliable 8-12 mpg guy just because he played at a school that doesn't compete remotely with the level of play he'd see in the Big East.

Second, looking back to the James injury, I think that instead of asking if someone can be an effective backup, the correct question is can they be an effective starter if they are forced into action. With the walk-on ruled out (the same way we rule Frozena out of competitive play) you have one name on the list, which is Wilson. He has thus far a career total of zero minutes of D1 college basketball, which means that there's no completely accurate assessment of how he will perform if Junior were to go down.

The simple truth is that Buzz's offense and system can succeed without a big man. If Otule or Gardner were to get injured and we could only get 15-25 mpg out of the guy that is still healthy, I'm confident that Buzz's experience is such that he would know how to get effective play down low out of guys like Crowder, Jamil, and Anderson. Would it necessarily be the equal of what we lost? Probably not, but it would be adequate.

If Buzz's offense has no Junior Cadougan due to injury, and suddenly Wilson is forced to the bench for 10-15 minutes/game because he's a freshman incapable of playing 38+ mpg, wouldn't it be nice to have another point on the roster? It's all about options. Buzz proved that his team can succeed without many options at the 15-seed. I don't feel that same confidence at the point.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Fair post.  But you do realize Chicos has a hard time coming to terms with the fact that D-Wade is the reason we went to the Final Four, correct??  He and I hve gone round and round about Wade's significance to the MU program and Final Four team.  

Are you going to play this line until you die?

LOL.  

Travis Diener 29 points against Holy Cross....Wade with 15.  Without Diener that game, we lose.  

Diener 26 points against Missouri....Novak with 14 including 9 in OT....Wade with 24.

Pittsburgh...Merritt had 17 points...Jackson 16 points...Wade 22.

Robert Jackson, Scott Merritt, Bradley, Townsend, Diener, Novak, etc, etc.  That was a great team with great players.  D-Wade is an all world player.  You seem to have a tough time coming to terms with the fact that as good as Wade is, without those other guys playing their part and even EXCEEDING Wade at times, MU doesn't get to that Final Four.

Teams go to the Final Four...not one player.  You make it sound like Wade put the team on his back and willed them to the Final Four which could not be further from the truth.  Keep playing this line.  If you would like, I can send you some DVD's of those first three games as apparently you missed them.

[El Duderino]

I find that to be a pretty illogical assumption, especially when you consider Buzz's history as Marquette's coach.

First, Singleton is a walk-on. I hope that he proves he can contribute more than an average walk-on, but the realistic expectation we should have is 1-4 minutes per game in the cupcake games of our schedule, and a combined 5-10 minutes during Big East play. If he exceeds that, great, but there is no reason anyone (including MUMac) should expect him to be a reliable 8-12 mpg guy just because he played at a school that doesn't compete remotely with the level of play he'd see in the Big East.

Second, looking back to the James injury, I think that instead of asking if someone can be an effective backup, the correct question is can they be an effective starter if they are forced into action. With the walk-on ruled out (the same way we rule Frozena out of competitive play) you have one name on the list, which is Wilson. He has thus far a career total of zero minutes of D1 college basketball, which means that there's no completely accurate assessment of how he will perform if Junior were to go down.

The simple truth is that Buzz's offense and system can succeed without a big man. If Otule or Gardner were to get injured and we could only get 15-25 mpg out of the guy that is still healthy, I'm confident that Buzz's experience is such that he would know how to get effective play down low out of guys like Crowder, Jamil, and Anderson. Would it necessarily be the equal of what we lost? Probably not, but it would be adequate.

If Buzz's offense has no Junior Cadougan due to injury, and suddenly Wilson is forced to the bench for 10-15 minutes/game because he's a freshman incapable of playing 38+ mpg, wouldn't it be nice to have another point on the roster? It's all about options. Buzz proved that his team can succeed without many options at the 15-seed. I don't feel that same confidence at the point.

I agree with a lot of this and said something kinda similar the post prior.

If we had a team coming back next year that likely should have fairly low expectations of making the NCAA Tournament, i wouldn't want Buzz to even consider signing a JUCO PG. That isn't the case IMO, i think if the team next year has good health and can get quality point guard play, we should make the big dance.

Otule and Garder will have a year under their belts and should be better. DJO and Crowder will be seniors. Hopefully Jamail Jones becomes a regular part of the rotation and Erik Williams can be at least a 10-15mpg guy. Vander has to be better than he was this year. Jamil Wilson has supposedly impressed many during his sit out season. It's certainly possible that either of Anderson or Mayo can contribute as freshman.

The biggest worry for me that might hurt the team next year is problems at PG.

1. What if Cadougan isn't much more consistent than he was this year? Just to much inconsistency of a good game followed by very mediocre or poor games.

2. What if Junior got hurt with an injury that forced him to miss a significant amount of time and Wilson wasn't ready yet to handle the starting PG role?

3. What if point #1 happened with Junior and Wilson was OK for a freshman, but still often enough looked like a freshman playing PG in the toughest conference in all of college basketball? The result would likely be below average and inconsistent PG play compared to the better Big East teams.

Any to all three of those things wouldn't exactly be hard to envision actually happening. If any did, it would suck to see an otherwise well playing team have their NCAA Tournament hopes snuffed out mainly because of issues at PG.

Then again, i don't follow the JUCO ranks at all so i have no idea if any highly thought of JUCO point guards are still out there to be had. I wouldn't want Buzz to even consider one that wasn't at the very least as good as Cadougan.