Fox's Goodman: Coaching Carousel List

[77ncaachamps]

http://jeffgoodman.yardbarker.com/blog/jeffgoodman/coaching_carousel_list_of_openings/4371713

2010-11 College Basketball Coaching Changes

Alcorn State - Larry Smith
Bradley - Jim Les
Eastern Washington - Kirk Earlywine
Florida Gulf Coast -Dave Balza
Georgia State - Rod Barnes
Georgia Tech - Paul Hewitt
Kennesaw State - Tony Ingle
Manhattan - Barry Rohrssen
Monmouth - Dave Calloway
Northern Illinois - Ricardo Patton
Pepperdine - Tom Asbury; replacement is Marty Wilson
Providence - Keno Davis
Stetson - Derek Waugh
Texas A&M-Corpus - Perry Clark
Texas Tech - Pat Knight
Towson - Pat Kennedy
Wyoming - Heath Schroyer

[willie warrior]

The Kennesaw State job looks like a real plum!

[PBRme]

So Shumpert loses the coach that recruited him.

Oh well

[Silkk the Shaka]

So Shumpert loses the coach that recruited him.

Oh well

Jamil Wilson/Robert Jackson redux?

[brewcity77]

Just to make sure, if someone like Shumpert were to transfer with Hewitt leaving, would he have a chance at playing next year, or would he have to sit out a season?

[Jay Bee]

Just to make sure, if someone like Shumpert were to transfer with Hewitt leaving, would he have a chance at playing next year, or would he have to sit out a season?

Sit out.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

My guess is that Shumpert just shoots for the league even though its unlikely he'll make the first round

[Silkk the Shaka]

Just to make sure, if someone like Shumpert were to transfer with Hewitt leaving, would he have a chance at playing next year, or would he have to sit out a season?

I'd rather a transfer have to sit out next year, as 2012/2013 is our real title shot. We'll be stacked with four star upperclassmen (Cadougan, Williams, Wilson, Blue, Jones), and veteran centers (Otule, Gardner).  The bench will be nasty too, with Anderson, Mayo, Ferguson, Wilson and insert transfer here.  To quote Doris Burke's Thong quoting Bart Scott, can't wait!

[Marquette84]

I'd rather a transfer have to sit out next year, as 2012/2013 is our real title shot. We'll be stacked with four star upperclassmen (Cadougan, Williams, Wilson, Blue, Jones), and veteran centers (Otule, Gardner).  The bench will be nasty too, with Anderson, Mayo, Ferguson, Wilson and insert transfer here.  To quote Doris Burke's Thong quoting Bart Scott, can't wait!

And it was only a few days ago that I was being ripped for suggesting that D1 transfers were a viable option.

Shumpert is exactly the type of guy that I would love to get. 

[Silkk the Shaka]

And it was only a few days ago that I was being ripped for suggesting that D1 transfers were a viable option.

Shumpert is exactly the type of guy that I would love to get. 

I never said they weren't a viable option.

And I wouldn't want Shumpert either.  I'd only want a Wilson/RJax type transfer.  Meaning a stud with 2 or 3 years left or a position of dire need that would make a huge impact in his one year.  Shumpert does not fit either description, and they aren't always readily available.

[Pakuni]

I don't have any data on this, nor am I inclined to spend the time looking it up, but my suspicion is that not a lot of seniors-to-be transfer because of a coaching change. More often, I would think, it occurs when there are disciplinary/personal issue, e.g. Robert Jackson, Korie Lucious.
None of MU's four seniors-to-be bailed when Crean left. Nor did any of MU's seniors-to-be bail when Deane got fired.
Generally, I don't think that after playing three years a kid would want to sit out a year -  and deal with everything else that goes with a transfer - unless he has no better options.
I would think that unless he's going pro, Shumpert stays at Tech. He's going to be dealing with a new coach regardless, so why not stay at the only school he knows and not have to sit out a year.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Add Jim Boylen to the list...Utah fired him tonight

[El Duderino]

And it was only a few days ago that I was being ripped for suggesting that D1 transfers were a viable option.

Shumpert is exactly the type of guy that I would love to get.

I don't think anyone would or was arguing that getting transfers is a bad thing as evidenced by people liking the signing of Jamil Wilson after his transfer. It's just many can't understand why you seem to be so bothered with Buzz signing the JUCO kids he brought in given how productive most of those JUCO players have been along with representing the university well off the court.

The by far main bottom line when recruiting is for the coach to bring in as many quality players that can perform well on the court and be good citizens off it. Of course the main avenue for bringing in players should be the high school ranks, but when supplementing needs/balancing rosters besides the high school ranks, i don't really care one bit if that comes from the JUCO ranks or D1 transfers, and don't see why anyone else would care so long as the players are productive?

In both cases you won't have that player for four years, it will be 2-3 seasons either way assuming a guy doesn't leave early for the NBA. So if Buzz continues to dip into the JUCO ranks when he feels it's beneficial and in doing so he can keep bringing in productive kids like DJO, Butler, and Crowder who also represent the university well, count me in the camp of go for it Buzz.  JUCO signings generally only hurt a program on the court the same way high school signings do, by being unproductive. At least in those cases though, they don't eat up a scholarship for as many seasons. 

[brewcity77]

I would think that unless he's going pro, Shumpert stays at Tech. He's going to be dealing with a new coach regardless, so why not stay at the only school he knows and not have to sit out a year.

Exactly right. No way does Shumpert transfer, especially not when he's projected by most as a future NBA player. Sitting out a year could really hurt his stock if he doesn't come in like gangbusters at whatever school he transferred to. He will either go pro or play out his senior year at Georgia Tech.

[4everwarriors]

The limo might be outside his front door in ATL with some goofy lookin' dude in it along with DWade in IU shorts lookin' for a transfer to Bloominton.

[Marquette84]

I don't think anyone would or was arguing that getting transfers is a bad thing as evidenced by people liking the signing of Jamil Wilson after his transfer. It's just many can't understand why you seem to be so bothered with Buzz signing the JUCO kids he brought in given how productive most of those JUCO players have been along with representing the university well off the court.

The by far main bottom line when recruiting is for the coach to bring in as many quality players that can perform well on the court and be good citizens off it. Of course the main avenue for bringing in players should be the high school ranks, but when supplementing needs/balancing rosters besides the high school ranks, i don't really care one bit if that comes from the JUCO ranks or D1 transfers, and don't see why anyone else would care so long as the players are productive?

In both cases you won't have that player for four years, it will be 2-3 seasons either way assuming a guy doesn't leave early for the NBA. So if Buzz continues to dip into the JUCO ranks when he feels it's beneficial and in doing so he can keep bringing in productive kids like DJO, Butler, and Crowder who also represent the university well, count me in the camp of go for it Buzz.  JUCO signings generally only hurt a program on the court the same way high school signings do, by being unproductive. At least in those cases though, they don't eat up a scholarship for as many seasons. 

First, I oppose those who say that the ONLY way to balance the classes was with JUCOs.  Its not.  D1 transfer players could do the same thing.  THis seems patently obvious to me, and I don't know why its a point of controversy. 

Second is my beef with those who continually make comments to the effect that Buzz was "forced" to take JUCOs in an ill-fated attempt to balance the classes.   Its simply not necessary.  Nobody has even acknowledged the point (which Buzz supports) that 40% of freshman will transfer-so classes will automatically balance.

Third, while I don't mind an occasional JUCO to fill a spot on the roster when necessary, it generally takes twice as much recruiting effort to recruit what are generally 2-year players compared to 4-year players because you have to recruit them twice as often.

Fourth, we're seeing the best of what JUCOs can give us this year--which is middle of the pack. We have a veritbable JUCO all-star team with a national POY, 2 first team, a 2nd team and and Honorable mention AA.  3 of them are seniors, and 4 of them have at least a year of D1 experience.  And we're 9th place tie/11th seed.  I'm sorry, but that's not my expectations year-in/year-out. 

Fifth, I've pointed out that D1 transfers over the years have been extremely valuable to us--David Boone, Ron Curry, Robert Jackson, Maurice Acker are four that come to mind that equal or surpass the contributions of this year's JUCOs.   

Sixth, I've said nothing about JUCOs not representing the university well. I expect all players to do so.  This is an oft-cited straw man argument. 

Seventh, while you and others here think that JUCOs represent the university well, that's not the general reputation across the country. People will lower their opinion of Marquette's academic standard--just as they did with Cincinnati or UNLV when they were taking JUCOs.  Just because we've changed our opinions here doesn't mean the rest of the country has.

[NersEllenson]

Fifth, I've pointed out that D1 transfers over the years have been extremely valuable to us--David Boone, Ron Curry, Robert Jackson, Maurice Acker are four that come to mind that equal or surpass the contributions of this year's JUCOs.   

Seventh, while you and others here think that JUCOs represent the university well, that's not the general reputation across the country. People will lower their opinion of Marquette's academic standard--just as they did with Cincinnati or UNLV when they were taking JUCOs.  Just because we've changed our opinions here doesn't mean the rest of the country has.

To point 5 - You really feel that David Boone, Ron Curry, Robert Jackson and Mo Acker achieved more in their careers than a DJO and Jimmy Butler will have??  Crowder's numbers this are practically on par with Robert Jackson's..and Jax played with WADE!

To point 7 - You really believe that most fans equate a team's basketball or football team roster composition to the quality or overall academic excellence of a university?  Any reasonable human being knows that the criteria for admission to universities are different for blue chip basketball and football players. 

Last point - if Buzz brought in no JUCO's and instead brought in more high school players in 2009-2010 season..they'd be sophomores this year..and not many sophomroe led teams make NCAA tourneys.  Furthermore in 2008 he took Jimmy Butler as his only JUCO.  Problem with Jimmy's contributions??  Took only 1 in the 2010 class - Jae Crowder.  Problem with Jae's contributions?  Think we could have gotten a high school kid who could have contributed what Jae has?  So Buzz took 2 JUCOs in 2009, which was the year we faced the greatest roster need due to transfers and the coaching change.  DJO and Buycks.  DJO will be a 3 year player and Buycks is an MKE kid who has contributed to the team and grown as a person within the MU program.  For the 2011 class..it looks like at most he'll take 1 JUCO if this last roster spot gets used on a JUCO.  I think most here can live with 1 JUCO per year, particularily when they are the caliber of kids and players the JUCO's thus far have been.

[NersEllenson]

Add Jim Boylen to the list...Utah fired him tonight

Does it surprise you that Jim Les from Bradley is getting fired?  You may recall 2 weeks ago when you told me you would have liked to see him considered for the MU job instead of Buzz.  Any thoughts?  Or will you resort to your must give a coach 5 year argument?

[Dr. Blackheart]

If Buzz doesn't take JUCO's or Preps...

• MU makes the NCAA's only one and not three years in a row
• The effort to take a 2 or 3 year JUCO, which essentially locks them into your program vs. an immature freshman who transfers 40% of the time, is less time consuming and can add more stability. This is especially true if the coaching staff has an established recruiting network with JUCO's. Mbwake, Christopherson, Smith, Maymon, Smith, Roseboro, Hazel--and going back:  Bradley, ODB and the list goes on of frosh-sophs who added instability to the program
• Who was the last JUCO or prep school kid who was admitted to MU that had character issues? They have had more character than most I can remember who attended MU.  In fact, they were better representatives of MU than most students, starting with myself.  Why? They are usually more mature and have fought through their maturity and learning issues (and don't have an AAU posse attached at the hip).
• MU Warrior basketball has always been about taking a chance on a kid: Pat Smith, Bo Ellis, Robert Byrd, DWade, Trend, Lazar Hayward, Jimmy Butler, Dwight, DJO, Joe, Jae. Let's not forget Walton, Lackey or Whitehead either to name a few others. How has that all turned out?
• No JUCO's? Buzz is Keno Davis.  That makes for a stable program.
• MU is not a mediocre team. It beat the BET champion on the road and played the defending national champion down to the wire. It is the top BE offensive team and one of the tops in the nation. Does UCONN feel mediocre today after the BE regular season finish? Does Wisconsin feel elite right now after their B10 finish and top 10 ranking?

We ARE Marquette!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Does it surprise you that Jim Les from Bradley is getting fired?  You may recall 2 weeks ago when you told me you would have liked to see him considered for the MU job instead of Buzz.  Any thoughts?  Or will you resort to your must give a coach 5 year argument?

I said that 2 weeks ago?  Wow...who knew.


Yes, 9 years later Jim Les is out.  Happens all the time.  Paul Hewitt went to a Final Four with Georgia Tech...he's gone. Mike Davis went to the championship game at Indiana...he's gone.  Steve Lavin make it to 6 straight Sweet 16's...he was fired.  The longer you go at one job, the honeymoon wears off. 

Do you think Buzz will be here for 9 years?  Odds are, he won't.   

Note I also said I would have loved for MU to consider Stallings and others.  As I think even you will admit, situations are different everywhere.  One guy may fail in one location and do a great job at another.  Can you predict outcomes?  Maybe if Buzz stayed at New Orleans they would still be in DI.  We don't know.  Maybe if KO never left MU we would be playing in our 18th straight NCAA tournament.  We don't know.  Maybe if Bob Knight took the Wisconsin job (yes, he was offered it and accepted before backing out) they would be one of the top 5 programs of all time.  Maybe if John Wooden had taken the Minnesota job (yes, he was offered it) instead of UCLA....you get the idea.

We can play this game all day.  No Little League today, I'm game.  Let's have fun...what you got?

[NersEllenson]

I said that 2 weeks ago?  Wow...who knew.


Yes, 9 years later Jim Les is out.  Happens all the time.  Paul Hewitt went to a Final Four with Georgia Tech...he's gone. Mike Davis went to the championship game at Indiana...he's gone.  Steve Lavin make it to 6 straight Sweet 16's...he was fired.  The longer you go at one job, the honeymoon wears off. 

Do you think Buzz will be here for 9 years?  Odds are, he won't.   

Note I also said I would have loved for MU to consider Stallings and others.  As I think even you will admit, situations are different everywhere.  One guy may fail in one location and do a great job at another.  Can you predict outcomes?  Maybe if Buzz stayed at New Orleans they would still be in DI.  We don't know.  Maybe if KO never left MU we would be playing in our 18th straight NCAA tournament.  We don't know.  Maybe if Bob Knight took the Wisconsin job (yes, he was offered it and accepted before backing out) they would be one of the top 5 programs of all time.  Maybe if John Wooden had taken the Minnesota job (yes, he was offered it) instead of UCLA....you get the idea.

We can play this game all day.  No Little League today, I'm game.  Let's have fun...what you got?

I'll pass. 

[Lennys Tap]

If Buzz doesn't take JUCO's or Preps...

• MU makes the NCAA's only one and not three years in a row
• The effort to take a 2 or 3 year JUCO, which essentially locks them into your program vs. an immature freshman who transfers 40% of the time, is less time consuming and can add more stability. This is especially true if the coaching staff has an established recruiting network with JUCO's. Mbwake, Christopherson, Smith, Maymon, Smith, Roseboro, Hazel--and going back:  Bradley, ODB and the list goes on of frosh-sophs who added instability to the program
• Who was the last JUCO or prep school kid who was admitted to MU that had character issues? They have had more character than most I can remember who attended MU.  In fact, they were better representatives of MU than most students, starting with myself.  Why? They are usually more mature and have fought through their maturity and learning issues (and don't have an AAU posse attached at the hip).
• MU Warrior basketball has always been about taking a chance on a kid: Pat Smith, Bo Ellis, Robert Byrd, DWade, Trend, Lazar Hayward, Jimmy Butler, Dwight, DJO, Joe, Jae. Let's not forget Walton, Lackey or Whitehead either to name a few others. How has that all turned out?
• No JUCO's? Buzz is Keno Davis.  That makes for a stable program.
• MU is not a mediocre team. It beat the BET champion on the road and played the defending national champion down to the wire. It is the top BE offensive team and one of the tops in the nation. Does UCONN feel mediocre today after the BE regular season finish? Does Wisconsin feel elite right now after their B10 finish and top 10 ranking?

We ARE Marquette!

A complete and utter facial delivered by the good doctor.

[Marquette84]

If Buzz doesn't take JUCO's or Preps...

• MU makes the NCAA's only one and not three years in a row

Complete B.S.  If Buzz has recruited players like Novak, Diener, Hayward, James, Matthews, McNeal, etc., we would have just as easily continued our NCAA streak.

There is no evidence that JUCOs are the only way teams make the NCAA tournament.

• The effort to take a 2 or 3 year JUCO, which essentially locks them into your program vs. an immature freshman who transfers 40% of the time, is less time consuming and can add more stability. This is especially true if the coaching staff has an established recruiting network with JUCO's. Mbwake, Christopherson, Smith, Maymon, Smith, Roseboro, Hazel--and going back:  Bradley, ODB and the list goes on of frosh-sophs who added instability to the program

How is the effort to land a JUCO less time consuming?  You still have to scout him.  You still have to travel to meet him and his coaches and his family. 

And I'm not sure you make the case on instability.  At a 40% transfer rate:
--5 frosh turn into 3 senior players four years out.
--5 JUCOs will turn into 0 senior players four years out.

• Who was the last JUCO or prep school kid who was admitted to MU that had character issues? They have had more character than most I can remember who attended MU.  In fact, they were better representatives of MU than most students, starting with myself.  Why? They are usually more mature and have fought through their maturity and learning issues (and don't have an AAU posse attached at the hip).

Straw man.  I didn't say any of our specific JUCOs had character issues.

I did say others around the country will make such assumptions--just as we did when programs like Cincy and UNLV were recruiting JUCOs and we weren't.

• No JUCO's? Buzz is Keno Davis.  That makes for a stable program.

Really?  The only difference between Buzz and Keno is that Buzz landed some JUCOs? I think a few folks here might disagree with that, including myself. 

• MU is not a mediocre team. It beat the BET champion on the road and played the defending national champion down to the wire. It is the top BE offensive team and one of the tops in the nation. Does UCONN feel mediocre today after the BE regular season finish? Does Wisconsin feel elite right now after their B10 finish and top 10 ranking?

I'm pretty sure everyone with the UCONN program was extremely disappointed with their 9th place finish. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

MU84--Your words speak for themselves.  I am extremely proud of what Marquette and Marquette Warrior basketball HAS ALWAYS stood for.  This "there is another way" scenario is complete and absolute BS to use your words.  MU has always given these kids a chance:  Al was a color barrier buster, he loved the underdog, and he stayed with them in life.  MU is not just about DuPage County, Orange County, the North Shore or the fields of Mequon. It has always been about "Hoop Dreams" and "Cracked Sidewalks"...a place where few other schools would give these kids a chance.  Any dispersions otherwise is a slap in the face for what MU stands for.  To even suggest that MU's academic reputation would be tarnished by kids who have only worked their fannies off, have earned degrees (and in many cases advanced degrees) and have been fantastic representatives of our university is one of the most off base comments I have ever seen on this board. I know your intent is not what is implied, but you really should go back to read and edit your words. They are offensive as they stand...and I am not a PC type.

[Lennys Tap]

MU84--Your words speak for themselves.  I am extremely proud of what Marquette and Marquette Warrior basketball HAS ALWAYS stood for.  This "there is another way" scenario is complete and absolute BS to use your words.  MU has always given these kids a chance:  Al was a color barrier buster, he loved the underdog, and he stayed with them in life.  MU is not just about DuPage County, Orange County, the North Shore or the fields of Mequon. It has always been about "Hoop Dreams" and "Cracked Sidewalks"...a place where few other schools would give these kids a chance.  Any dispersions otherwise is a slap in the face for what MU stands for.  To even suggest that MU's academic reputation would be tarnished by kids who have only worked their fannies off, have earned degrees (and in many cases advanced degrees) and have been fantastic representatives of our university is one of the most off base comments I have ever seen on this board. I know your intent is not what is implied, but you really should go back to read and edit your words. They are offensive as they stand...and I am not a PC type.

Agreed. Saying "I'm not a bigot but we should conduct our business to please those who are is, well, bigoted.