One "bad" loss...back off!

[romey]

Are you a spoiled teenager?  Or were you a spoiled child growing up?  Newsflash - you don't get to win and have things your way every single year - not in life, and certainly not in sports.  Seems all of your posts I recall reading recently are all of an "entitled" sort. 

You have no frickin' idea Ners - and what does that have to do with anything?  Oh yeah, I was entitled How about you walk in my shoes for a day pal?

[ecompt]

Not that it matters, but if we are picked to finish 11th in the BE next year (a very distinct possibility), should we be happy when he finish there? Just asking.

[connie]

Not that it matters, but if we are picked to finish 11th in the BE next year (a very distinct possibility), should we be happy when he finish there? Just asking.

I know I won't be.  I want better.  I want my team to improve every year as well as during the year.  I am not happy about this year.  I am incredibly frustrated.  If we are picked 11th pre-season next year, my first thought is to support the team as best I can to hope they exceed that pick. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I am disappointed that we failed to overachieve.   But to borrow from the inimitable Dennis Green rant, we are who they thought we were.    We were picked anywhere from 7 (IIRC) to 12 in the BEast.   The pre-season pundits pretty much nailed it.   I, like most of the rest of the board, was expecting us to out-perform those expectations.   We didn't.

7th to 12th is quite a spread...not sure they "nailed it" if their selection range occupies 38% of the possible outcomes.

[tower912]

In the 3 way tie we are in, I would say they pretty much nailed it.  

[Lennys Tap]

I am disappointed that we failed to overachieve.   But to borrow from the inimitable Dennis Green rant, we are who they thought we were.    We were picked anywhere from 7 (IIRC) to 12 in the BEast.   The pre-season pundits pretty much nailed it.   I, like most of the rest of the board, was expecting us to out-perform those expectations.   We didn't.

Well said.

We had a history of over achievement with Buzz. I predicted 10-8, 7th place while admitting I was being optimistic. So I'm not surprised, but I am disappointed.

[Goose]

To me the loss is only part of the issue. It seems to me that many have lost faith in Buzz and the is worrisome. More importantly, many of the loyal Buzz supporters from Day One are getting antsy. I was completely against the hire because I felt Buzz was in over his head. It appears to me that we need to rally the troops or the wheels fall off big time.

Our AD is not a basketball guy and a new president that may or may not have ball a big part of agenda. All I know the DWade Final Four seems like it was twenty years ago. The time is now for Buzz to prove all his early supporters correct or we are in trouble.

[NersEllenson]

You have no frickin' idea Ners - and what does that have to do with anything?  Oh yeah, I was entitled How about you walk in my shoes for a day pal?

Hey weirdo - 1) the statement wasn't directed at you.  2) it was confirmed by the intended target that he was an only child/spoiled.

As for you, I'll gladly pass at the invite to walk in your shoes for a day pal - you seem like a real nut job.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not that it matters, but if we are picked to finish 11th in the BE next year (a very distinct possibility), should we be happy when he finish there? Just asking.

Great question...especially after finishing 4th, 5th, 5th, 5th, 5th and now 11th.

[mugrad2006]

Great question...especially after finishing 4th, 5th, 5th, 5th, 5th and now 11th.

Why aren't you consistent on the tiebreakers?  Why pick us on the bottom of the tiebreaker this year but at the top end for all other years? I'd say it's seeding on the BEast tourney, but in '08 we were a 6 seed.

[romey]

Hey weirdo - 1) the statement wasn't directed at you.  2) it was confirmed by the intended target that he was an only child/spoiled.

As for you, I'll gladly pass at the invite to walk in your shoes for a day pal - you seem like a real nut job.

I apologize Ners, but I had pretty much just written the post and when I came back to the thread, I read your post in response to someone who had made a comment with the same basic premise as mine.  Before the Cincy game, would any of us honestly have said we would NOT be disappointed if we lost the next three games?  And would any of us at that same time not have agreed that we were going to prove the preseason predictions wrong?  At the beginning of the season 9-9 didn't look too bad, and was "realistic".  Before the UC game, 9-9 looked like a "miss," a disappointing finish.

I'm just a passionate (currently disappointed) lifelong MU fan, and I flew off the handle.  I'm not a nut job.  

[Lennys Tap]

Great question...especially after finishing 4th, 5th, 5th, 5th, 5th and now 11th.

Actually 4th,5th and 6th (tie), 5th and 6th (tie), 5th and 6th (tie), 5th, 5th and 6th (tie) and now 9th, 10th and 11th (tie).

Even when you have the facts on your side (the piss on this year's MU team side), you still have to fudge them (lie, basically) to make them look better. It's who you are. Character revealed.

[TJ]

No more obnoxious than those who are all up in arms over how bad this team is, that Buzz should be canned, etc.  

However, if you would, please do rebut the content of my post and tell me why my "hyperbole" is so far off base and obnoxious, than the reality of a lot of what gets thrown out around here with regard to expectations/overreactions.

The following is obnoxious, and you repeat it over and over and over in different forms.

How dare you be a voice of reason.  WE ARE MARQUETTE.  We have every right to be outraged.  Anything less than Big East titles at this point or Top 4 finishes are unaccpetable.  Or so some idiots here believe.

Your gross exaggeration (or "hyperbole") when you get sarcastic is obnoxious.  No one besides willie has said a single thing about Big East Titles or Top 4 finishes.  People are disappointed that we're not in the top half, that we didn't get to 10 wins, that we blew a TON of games on the way and just one of them would have put us at that level.  Yet you continue to falsely exaggerate others' expectations to make it seem like people are upset we didn't beat out PITT for #1.  Yes, you're being sarcastic, but sometimes I don't know how close to reality that statement is for you, since you never ever make a post about others' expectations in which you lay them out realistically.

Some here don't care that Nova and UCONN under Jay Wright and Jim Calhoun could only muster 9-9 this year.

As to this, I simply don't care and most people agree.  The fact that other schools have a mediocre season is not an excuse for MU to do the same.

WE ARE MARQUETTE -and have a legacy of conference championships.  Wait..maybe not..but since we are a basketball only school, in probably the 2nd or 3rd lest attractive city in the Big East conference - we should expect more out of our program.

I wonder why you think so poorly of our program, the program you claim to root for, and put it down so often.  Is it just to try to make Buzz look better?  Having reasonably high expectations (as in finishes in the top half or better than .500) is not a bad thing; I would argue that your expectations are too low given our program's history since joining the Big East.  We should try to continue that success, not put it down as "over achievement" and claim that our rightful place is lower than that.

[Goose]

I don't get how fans can be excited we are tied with 'nova and UConn. I want to be tied with Pitt. I doubt if Badger fans would be do cartwheels if they had similar finish. We play in tough conference...big deal. This is the conference we are in and I believe our expectations should be higher than many on his board.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Actually 4th,5th and 6th (tie), 5th and 6th (tie), 5th and 6th (tie), 5th, 5th and 6th (tie) and now 9th, 10th and 11th (tie).

Even when you have the facts on your side (the piss on this year's MU team side), you still have to fudge them (lie, basically) to make them look better. It's who you are. Character revealed.

Oh good Lord.  Yes, the Stat Sheet basketball website where I got them was lying....what a tool.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-east?season=2005-2006
http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-east?season=2006-2007
http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-east?season=2007-2008
http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-east?season=2008-2009
http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-east?season=2009-2010

Those liars



But let's use yours, just so we're all on the same page, because I sure wouldn't want you to get all upset.

4th\5th\6th
5th\6th
5th\6th
5th
5th\6th
9th\10th\11th

If, as ecompt asked, we are picked 11th next year and we "achieve" 11th (whether that's with a 3 way tie or whatever) what does that mean.

Now look at the numbers above, whether you use the ones I took from Stat Sheet (you know, the Character revealed LYING numbers who has a long history of trying to lie to their viewers over the years) or using your version, I don't really care.....which one isn't like the others? 

Character revealed

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't get how fans can be excited we are tied with 'nova and UConn. I want to be tied with Pitt. I doubt if Badger fans would be do cartwheels if they had similar finish. We play in tough conference...big deal. This is the conference we are in and I believe our expectations should be higher than many on his board.

Exactly.  Some of the same people today saying how wonderful it is that we finished "tied" with UCONN and Villanova for 9th (or 10th or 11th) were bitching a fit that we weren't breaking through and finishing higher than 5th \ 6th in years past.

Character revealed for some of these people.

With the money we spend, the league we are in, we should be pushing to be in the top of the conference at a MINIMUM, not finishing 9th\10th\11th.  I assure you that UCONN and Nova fans aren't happy to be finishing where they did, why are some of our fans? 

And Goose...please don't bring up the program 75 miles to the west of us...it's NOT FAIR.

[Lennys Tap]

Oh good Lord.  Yes, the Stat Sheet basketball website where I got them was lying....what a tool.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-east?season=2005-2006
http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-east?season=2006-2007
http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-east?season=2007-2008
http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-east?season=2008-2009
http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-east?season=2009-2010

Those liars



But let's use yours, just so we're all on the same page, because I sure wouldn't want you to get all upset.

4th\5th\6th
5th\6th
5th\6th
5th
5th\6th
9th\10th\11th

If, as ecompt asked, we are picked 11th next year and we "achieve" 11th (whether that's with a 3 way tie or whatever) what does that mean.

Now look at the numbers above, whether you use the ones I took from Stat Sheet (you know, the Character revealed LYING numbers who has a long history of trying to lie to their viewers over the years) or using your version, I don't really care.....which one isn't like the others? 

Character revealed

So if we tie for 4th (and 5th and 6th) we finish 4th. And if we tie for 9th (and 10th and 11th) we finish 11th. Check.

That bogus. You know it's bogus. And you pulled the same BS in another thread. I refuse to believe you could be that stupid. If I'm giving you too much credit I apologize.

[Goose]

Chico's --- I hate UW like most on here but their expectations should be copied. I realize everyone will say that Bo sucks in NCAA but I am talking whole program. I wish BC was sold out, and every seat filled, night in and night out. I wish Buzz had as few loses at BC this season that Bo has in career at KC.

Why is MU afraid to set the bar higher? You hope to be a bubble team and you become an 11th or 12th place team.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Why aren't you consistent on the tiebreakers?  Why pick us on the bottom of the tiebreaker this year but at the top end for all other years? I'd say it's seeding on the BEast tourney, but in '08 we were a 6 seed.

I used Stat Sheet and simply took the number they finished in the standings. 

As stated to Lenny, fine, let's use seedings....which one is not like the other?

4th\5th\6th
5th\6th
5th\6th
5th
5th\6th
9th\10th\11th

[mugrad2006]

Oh good Lord.  Yes, the Stat Sheet basketball website where I got them was lying....what a tool.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-east?season=2005-2006
http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-east?season=2006-2007
http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-east?season=2007-2008
http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-east?season=2008-2009
http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/big-east?season=2009-2010

Those liars

Statsheet didn't lie.  YOU just picked the high tiebreakers in older years and the low tiebreaker this year.  Why not just admit that you picked the tiebreakers arbitrarily and it by chance made you look biased instead of playing the spin game you did?  

I think that at the end of the day the committee sees we're tied for 9th in the Big East, not the 11 seed in the tourney.  That's 1 off the preseason coach's poll.  Not as good as we'd like or expect at MU, but about where those that actually coach the teams thought we would.  

[mugrad2006]

1999–2000   Michigan State   32–7   13–3   T–1st   NCAA Champions 2000–2001   Michigan State   28–5   13–3   T–1st   NCAA Final Four 2001–2002   Michigan State   19–12   10–6   5th   NCAA 1st Round 2002–2003   Michigan State   22–13   10–6   T–3rd   NCAA Elite Eight 2003–2004   Michigan State   18–12   12–4   T–2nd   NCAA 1st Round 2004–2005   Michigan State   26–7   13–3   2nd   NCAA Final Four 2005–2006   Michigan State   22–12   8–8   T–6th   NCAA 1st Round 2006–2007   Michigan State   23–12   8–8   T–7th   NCAA 2nd Round 2007–2008   Michigan State   27–9   12–6   4th   NCAA Sweet 16 2008–2009   Michigan State   31–7   15–3   1st   NCAA Runner-Up 2009–2010   Michigan State   28-9   14-4   T-1st   NCAA Final Four 2010–2011   Michigan State   16-11   8-7   6th

Michigan state won a championship and has been to final four five times over the past 11 seasons.  They also finished in the bottom half of the big ten 3 times in that run, and in the bottom third (gasp!) once in that run.  Even great programs have down years. 

What am I trying to prove with this info?  Nothing, really, other than that I can pull out some stats and twist them to fit an agenda. 

[NersEllenson]

I apologize Ners, but I had pretty much just written the post and when I came back to the thread, I read your post in response to someone who had made a comment with the same basic premise as mine.  Before the Cincy game, would any of us honestly have said we would NOT be disappointed if we lost the next three games?  And would any of us at that same time not have agreed that we were going to prove the preseason predictions wrong?  At the beginning of the season 9-9 didn't look too bad, and was "realistic".  Before the UC game, 9-9 looked like a "miss," a disappointing finish.

I'm just a passionate (currently disappointed) lifelong MU fan, and I flew off the handle.  I'm not a nut job.  

Apology accepted and no worries Romey.  I'm a very passionate MU fan as well - and this season has been very frustrating.  I acknowledge that.  However, taking a broader view - we'll probably make the NCAA tourney and we finished with the same record as two Top 20 teams - Nova and UCONN.  The conference was a beast this year.  Yes, I thought we'd beat Cincy and Seton Hall - but then you look at both and see that they both BLASTED St. Johns and Georgetown in the last 5 days...and its just the nature of the league.  Anyone can beat anyone on any given night - save for DePaul and USF.

[NersEllenson]

The following is obnoxious, and you repeat it over and over and over in different forms.Your gross exaggeration (or "hyperbole") when you get sarcastic is obnoxious.  No one besides willie has said a single thing about Big East Titles or Top 4 finishes.  People are disappointed that we're not in the top half, that we didn't get to 10 wins, that we blew a TON of games on the way and just one of them would have put us at that level.  Yet you continue to falsely exaggerate others' expectations to make it seem like people are upset we didn't beat out PITT for #1.  Yes, you're being sarcastic, but sometimes I don't know how close to reality that statement is for you, since you never ever make a post about others' expectations in which you lay them out realistically.
As to this, I simply don't care and most people agree.  The fact that other schools have a mediocre season is not an excuse for MU to do the same.
I wonder why you think so poorly of our program, the program you claim to root for, and put it down so often.  Is it just to try to make Buzz look better?  Having reasonably high expectations (as in finishes in the top half or better than .500) is not a bad thing; I would argue that your expectations are too low given our program's history since joining the Big East.  We should try to continue that success, not put it down as "over achievement" and claim that our rightful place is lower than that.

My expectations for the MU program are no greater than what UNC, UCONN, MSU or other elite programs have achieved thelast decade.  Some of those schools went to the NIT last year, or might be headed there this year.  I'm not going to FREAK out if MU has a slightly down year.  If you can't see the perspctive in looking at UCONN and Villanova - both who are ranked in the Top 20 NATIONALLY and see that MU finished with the same conference record as both..and see we are practically a Top 25 team - sorry...but i don't think MU should be flying off the handle at a team that is practically Top 25 natioanlly.  I hope MU can become as elite as a UNC, UCONN or MSU - but they really haven't been since the 1970s.  We had a flash in the pan in 2003 with a once in a program type of player - D-Wade.  Other than that??  1 Sweet 16 appearance since 1977..I believe.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Statsheet didn't lie.  YOU just picked the high tiebreakers in older years and the low tiebreaker this year.  Why not just admit that you picked the tiebreakers arbitrarily and it by chance made you look biased instead of playing the spin game you did?  

I think that at the end of the day the committee sees we're tied for 9th in the Big East, not the 11 seed in the tourney.  That's 1 off the preseason coach's poll.  Not as good as we'd like or expect at MU, but about where those that actually coach the teams thought we would.  

No I didn't...the number to the left of those teams showed what place they finished.  The number 4 was for fourth place.  I disagree with you.  In fact, last year Dan Guerrero, the chair of the committee, said that it's more complex than ever because of unbalanced schedules.  They don't just look at what "place you finished" because they are not all equal.  Is our 9th place finish the same as UCONN and NOVA?  Nope, already showed that earlier today.  We had easier conference schedules than UCONN and Nova.  Unless you don't believe the committee chairman.

I'll ask again, let's use your seeding numbers...which one is not like the others in the past 6 years...it's a simple question really.

[TJ]

My expectations for the MU program are no greater than what UNC, UCONN, MSU or other elite programs have achieved thelast decade.  Some of those schools went to the NIT last year, or might be headed there this year.  I'm not going to FREAK out if MU has a slightly down year.  If you can't see the perspctive in looking at UCONN and Villanova - both who are ranked in the Top 20 NATIONALLY and see that MU finished with the same conference record as both..and see we are practically a Top 25 team - sorry...but i don't think MU should be flying off the handle at a team that is practically Top 25 natioanlly.  I hope MU can become as elite as a UNC, UCONN or MSU - but they really haven't been since the 1970s.  We had a flash in the pan in 2003 with a once in a program type of player - D-Wade.  Other than that??  1 Sweet 16 appearance since 1977..I believe.

First, how can you possibly call this team "practically a Top 25 team" with a straight face?  Or are you giggling at the keyboard as you type it?

I did talk about your expectations in my "rebuttal" as you termed it, but that was not what was obnoxious about your first post.  The obnoxious part is your constant gross exaggeration of the expectations of anyone whose expectations are higher than yours.  You do that to try to make them look silly for expecting too much.  You do it repeatedly.  It's obnoxious.  Can you just once admit that the average expectations among the people you seem to despise are actually more like top half than top 2?