If Jordan Taylor were on Marquette...

[NersEllenson]

So, if Jordan Taylor happened to be on this Marquette team - and not on UW - would MU have many more wins?  I suspect yes.  Would UW have more lossses?  Absolutely.  As a result, would Buzz Williams all of a sudden be a much better "coach" than Bo Ryan??

Big time players win games at the college level and NBA.  Coaching is secondary to overall talent.  (We all saw what happened once DWade left Marquette.) St. John's is a very talented team -  7 major contributors who are 4th year seniors.  MU is a talented team as well, but struggles significantly due to not having a very good point point guard. Buycks is doing his best, but not his natural position. Boothe for St. John's was HUGE last night - as was Chris Wright for GTown, Hansbrough for ND, Fisher/Wayans for Nova.

[Tugg Speedman]

How about Ty Taylor?
How about Mbakwe?
How about Korie Lusicious?
How about Scotty C?
How about DJ Newbill?
How about Reggie Smith?
How about JMay?
How about Montrele Clark?
How about Mbao?
How about Jon Leuer?
How about Lebron James?

WHERE DOES THIS END!!!!

[Blackhat]

That's an extremely simplified thought process.


We rank 78 th in D because of our lack of fundamentals ain't one man going to change that.  That's a team characteristic that needs to be solidified.


We can look for excuses but there is plenty of talent on this team and we see it when we do have good defensive possessions and string together nice runs.   Our d is too scattered for the most part though and the over extending scheme of buzz is killing us.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So, if Jordan Taylor happened to be on this Marquette team - and not on UW - would MU have many more wins?  I suspect yes.  Would UW have more lossses?  Absolutely.  As a result, would Buzz Williams all of a sudden be a much better "coach" than Bo Ryan??

Big time players win games at the college level and NBA.  Coaching is secondary to overall talent.  (We all saw what happened once DWade left Marquette.) St. John's is a very talented team -  7 major contributors who are 4th year seniors.  MU is a talented team as well, but struggles significantly due to not having a very good point point guard. Buycks is doing his best, but not his natural position. Boothe for St. John's was HUGE last night - as was Chris Wright for GTown, Hansbrough for ND, Fisher/Wayans for Nova.

I know where you are going with this, and you're probably right about talent.

The problem with this line of "defense" is that Buzz gets to chose his guys. He's the head coach and GM. At some point, Buzz has to be responsible for the guys on his roster. Not year 1. Not year 2. Mostly in year 3. Definitely in year 4.

I'm mildly optimistic for the remainder of this year, and very optimistic for next year, but MU needs to find ways to come up with key defensive stops in order to get over the hump. Talent, maturity and continuity will help (hopefully).

[4everwarriors]

MU fans would love Taylor instead of hating him.

[MerrittsMustache]

MU fans would love Taylor instead of hating him.

Unless he had a couple bad games. Then we'd see usernames like "nomoretaylor."

[willie warrior]

Well, he isn't--we have Buycks.

[Canadian Dimes]

MU would be probaly about 21-5 right now or better with Jordan taylor....he runs the offense very well and equally important does an excellent job taking dribble penetration away from the opposing teams PG.  i hge part of Mus difficulty on defense is we are always helping and rotating becuase we cant stop dribble penetration

[Tugg Speedman]

This is a off-shoot of the Gasser threads.

I don't remember Taylor being a serious candidate for MU.  Am I mistaken?

Why not start a thread "if Nolan Smith was on MU" or "if Jared Sullinger was on MU"

Better ... "if Nolan Smith and Jared Sullinger were on MU!"

All were about as likely.

[MerrittsMustache]

A more appropriate question would be: What if Tyshawn Taylor were on Marquette?

[esotericmindguy]

That's an extremely simplified thought process.


We rank 78 th in D because of our lack of fundamentals ain't one man going to change that.  That's a team characteristic that needs to be solidified.


We can look for excuses but there is plenty of talent on this team and we see it when we do have good defensive possessions and string together nice runs.   Our d is too scattered for the most part though and the over extending scheme of buzz is killing us.

You do realize that there are 350 division I basketball schools right? That puts MU in the top 25% nationally in Defense.

How about this, ST. Johns is a better team....plain and simple. They have a better guards, wings, and are more athletic...They also have 9 seniors  on the team! They lost to a much better team, just like they did vs. G'Town, Wisco, Pitt, etc. It's not always coaching, there are a lot of issues with the team. It's an inexperienced team outside of Butler.

To use a local football example, many were suggesting that McCarthy and Thompson needed to go....now they get extensions and are  lauded across the country. Give Buzz a chance, Crean left the pipeline completely dry and Buzz has done a remarkable job keeping us competitive during the transition.

rocky sez: fixed quote

[leever]

I want to play a slightly different 'what if' game -

Watched the entire game on ESPN3 and was surprised to find that the crowd seemed very tame and quiet throughout (except at the end when they chose to boo).

Maybe they just weren't picking up the intensity of the crowd as they tried to jack up the team for a critical game?  Or was the crowd quiet, i.e. not supportive and just waiting for the expected melt down?

So, WHAT IF we actually had a crowd that came ready to at least try to inspire?  WHAT IF the crowd was actually in their seats cheering when the 2nd half started?

I don't see any home court advantage.  What the hell, are we becoming USF?

[GGGG]

This is a off-shoot of the Gasser threads.

I don't remember Taylor being a serious candidate for MU.  Am I mistaken?

Why not start a thread "if Nolan Smith was on MU" or "if Jared Sullinger was on MU"

Better ... "if Nolan Smith and Jared Sullinger were on MU!"

All were about as likely.

I think the original poster's thought was more along the lines of what this team would be like with a "better" point guard.  ie...Jordan Taylor.

[MerrittsMustache]

I want to play a slightly different 'what if' game -

Watched the entire game on ESPN3 and was surprised to find that the crowd seemed very tame and quiet throughout (except at the end when they chose to boo).

Maybe they just weren't picking up the intensity of the crowd as they tried to jack up the team for a critical game?  Or was the crowd quiet, i.e. not supportive and just waiting for the expected melt down?

So, WHAT IF we actually had a crowd that came ready to at least try to inspire?  WHAT IF the crowd was actually in their seats cheering when the 2nd half started?

I don't see any home court advantage.  What the hell, are we becoming USF?

If a team needs a raucous crowd behind them in order to get fired up for a big game, that's a huge problem.

[mu1977]

Another spin on the question.  If Jordan Taylor were on Marquette would he have developed into the player he is?

[NersEllenson]

You do realize that there are 350 division I basketball schools right? That puts MU in the top 25% nationally in Defense.

How about this, ST. Johns is a better team....plain and simple. They have a better guards, wings, and are more athletic...They also have 9 seniors  on the team! They lost to a much better team, just like they did vs. G'Town, Wisco, Pitt, etc. It's not always coaching, there are a lot of issues with the team. It's an inexperienced team outside of Butler.
To use a local football example, many were suggesting that McCarthy and Thompson needed to go....now they get extensions and are  lauded across the country. Give Buzz a chance, Crean left the pipeline completely dry and Buzz has done a remarkable job keeping us competitive during the transition.

rocky sez: fixed quote

Think your whole post is great - St. Johns is a darn good team and trending in the right direction.  Yes they did lose at UCLA, however, you cannot deny how they pummeled Duke and UCONN.  Having 9 seniors is huge, 7 of which are major contributors.

[bilsu]

Jordan Taylor would make MU much better. The question that cannot be answered is whether Jordan Taylor would be as good as he is now, if he had been playing for Buzz for three years instead of Bo. Either the high school players that Buzz has recruited were significantly overated when they were recruited or Buzz is not good at developing them. I suspect both are true to some extent. We certainly are not getting much out of them.

[T.V. Diener 34]

If a team needs a raucous crowd behind them in order to get fired up for a big game, that's a huge problem.

+1 .... I was at the game and it would've been nice to have something to cheer about.  The last time I remember standing up and getting loud was when we were up by 7.  Then the turnovers, crappy defense, and lack of rebounding happened and it was a little difficult to get out of my seat and cheer for my team....

[Tugg Speedman]

Jordan Taylor would make MU much better. The question that cannot be answered is whether Jordan Taylor would be as good as he is now, if he had been playing for Buzz for three years instead of Bo. Either the high school players that Buzz has recruited were significantly overated when they were recruited or Buzz is not good at developing them. I suspect both are true to some extent. We certainly are not getting much out of them.

Would Wes have developed as much under Bo as he did under Buzz?

[GGGG]

Would Wes have developed as much under Bo as he did under Buzz?

Tough question to answer...

[MerrittsMustache]

Jordan Taylor would make MU much better. The question that cannot be answered is whether Jordan Taylor would be as good as he is now, if he had been playing for Buzz for three years instead of Bo. Either the high school players that Buzz has recruited were significantly overated when they were recruited or Buzz is not good at developing them. I suspect both are true to some extent. We certainly are not getting much out of them.

Who specifically has Buzz not been able to develop?

MU has 3 true freshmen on the team right now so it's clearly too early to judge how they'll develop while at MU. Cadougan played sparingly and at not nearly 100% last season but has been a solid back-up PG this season (very respectable in a player's first full D1 season). EWill has had trouble getting off the bench, in part because he's been blocked from PT by Lazar, Butler and Crowder (3 of MU's top 4 players during that time). Otule is not a dominant center but he has improved leaps and bounds since he got to MU.

[mikem91288]

How about Ty Taylor?
How about Mbakwe?
How about Korie Lusicious?
How about Scotty C?
How about DJ Newbill?
How about Reggie Smith?
How about JMay?
How about Montrele Clark?
How about Mbao?
How about Jon Leuer?
How about Lebron James?

WHERE DOES THIS END!!!!

THis is still possible 18th ranked JUCO last time I checked? Or maybe Montey follows Lucious to whatever trainwreck of a program he ends up at.  . . .

[Blackhat]

I don't really see "development" as a  problem here unless you mean teaching our players solid defensive fundamentals and putting them in an advantageous scheme.

Offensive development has been fine under Buzz.   Bo gets his players to be very good shooters (especially in a friendly arena) and develops them into a helluva defensive unit year in and out. 

The defense and efficient offense turns into wins so no one questions the development of  Bo players like Steimsma or Jarmusz.     

[ZiggysFryBoy]

If your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle.

[CTWarrior]

...but there is plenty of talent on this team...

There is plenty of talent on this team but it is all at the SG/SF positions.  DJO is a top notch SG and Buycks would be a very nice to excellent SG off the bench.  Butler, Crowder are also top notch SFs.  We have plenty of other capable backups at these positions (Blue -cough, cough-, Fulce, probably Jones, just not enough minutes for him). 

Otule and Gardner are projects at the C position, and it looks like they'll pan out, but they're not more than serviceable right now.  Cadougan is our one PG and right now he is no more than a back-up.  Not saying he won't be very good before he's done, but right now he is a barely serivceable back-up.

Erik Williams is probably a PF at the college level, but it is impossible to say since he never gets a chance.

What are we adding next year?  3 more SG/SFs.

We need a PG and we need a PF/C.  We've lived without a top flight PF/C for quite some time (I don't count Hayward because he was really a 3, but I'll admit he was a very effective PF in college), but not having a true PG really hurts.