Mubarak relinquishes power

[KipsBayEagle]

Goodbye military dictatorship, hello sharia law!

[groove]

Goodbye military dictatorship, hello sharia law!

Yup increased business for doctors who can do the Clitoridectomy procedure

[Ari Gold]

I think that democracy is coming if the US can slowly walk Egypt towards it. Given that the military has control right now, there's a chance a new military dictatorship is coming. The real fear is who ever is successor to Mubarak won't keep peace with Israel, battle Islamic militants or preserved American interests in the Middle East.

Here's hoping Iran is the next Islamic dictatorship to fall.

[akmarq]

It sure sucks when they won't listen to Daddy America and just elect whoever we tell them to.

Thing about democracy is that not EVERYONE wants what we want from their government.

[groove]

It sure sucks when they won't listen to Daddy America and just elect whoever we tell them to.

Thing about democracy is that not EVERYONE wants what we want from their government.

yeah, it's no skin off your clit

[NavinRJohnson]

It sure sucks when they won't listen to Daddy America and just elect whoever we tell them to.

You're right, because this has the potential to make the world far more dangerous for all of us, particularly Israelis and Americans. But who cares about them, as long as big bad America doesn't hurt anyone's feelings by getting in the way of Islamists who may attempt to gain power through situations like this one.

[Jam Chowder]

Funny how the naivety of the American populace leads to many confusing this for a victory for human rights and freedom. If the Muslim Brotherhood takes over, it will be anything but that.

Military dictatorship: BAD.
Brutal Islamist theocracy that subjugates and brutalizes women, homosexuals, Christians, Jews, and anyone else: GOOD

Makes a whole lot of sense 

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/36106105843232768

[ChicosBailBonds]

Goodbye military dictatorship, hello sharia law!

I don't understand why you would call Mubarek a dictator.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/140923-biden-mubarak-not-a-dictator-protests-not-like-eastern-europe

[GGGG]

The fact of the matter is that democracy in Egypt would very likely lead to a government that isn't very pro-American.  So frankly, a military dictatorship proped up by the US is probably the best thing we can hope for.

Oh that's right...they already had that.

And don't compare this with Iran.  Different strains of Islam.  Different ethnicity.  Iran has oil.  It's like comparing the US to Brazil.

[Henry Sugar]

Pretty big stretch to think that Egypt is going to instantly fall under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood and Sharia.

and plus one to everything from Sultan

[reinko]

But Henry, if it's said enough, it has to be true.

Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood.Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood.Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood.Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood.Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood.Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood.Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood.Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood.Muslim Brotherhood.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Pretty big stretch to think that Egypt is going to instantly fall under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood and Sharia.

and plus one to everything from Sultan

Let's hope you are right.

Egypt has had four presidents since the 1952 revolution. In backwards order, they are: Mubarak, Sadat, Nasser, and Naguib.


In late 1954, Nasser accused Naguib of supporting the recently outlawed Muslim Brotherhood and of harboring dictatorial ambitions. A brief power struggle broke out between Naguib and Nasser for control of the military and of Egypt. Nasser ultimately won the struggle and managed to force Naguib to resign from the presidency of Egypt in November 1954.

Egypt has been struggling to keep the Muslim Brotherhood out of power since 1954. Nasser died of natural causes (but the Muslim Brotherhood made several assassination attempts). Sadat was killed by the Muslim Brotherhood. Mubarak was just ousted, in part, by the Muslim Brotherhood (and other forces).

Let's hope the power vacuum is filled appropriately in the coming years.

[Pakuni]

It sure sucks when they won't listen to Daddy America and just elect whoever we tell them to.

Thing about democracy is that not EVERYONE wants what we want from their government.

No, but history has shown that no majority has, over a significant period of time, chosen to live under tyranny, dictatorship or any form of representative government. It seems unlikely to me that the Egyptian people will willingly swap one for of dictatorial rule for another.

As for the Muslim Brotherhood, recent polling in Egypt shows the majority of people there do not support them in any way, while only a small percentage - something like 15 percent - actively support them. That's not to say they couldn't possibly fill some kind of power vacuum, but if they do it won't be a popular movement, like the Islamic Revolution in Iran (which isn't so popular these days).

Really odd that any American would suggest that keeping Mubarak in power , in he face of a popular, largely peaceful and pro-Democracy revolt against him, is a good thing. Seems to fly in the face of everything we constantly preach to the rest of the world.
Not that our government is famed for its consistent foreign policy.

[Aughnanure]

Pretty big stretch to think that Egypt is going to instantly fall under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood and Sharia.

+1

[Ari Gold]

Really odd that any American would suggest that keeping Mubarak in power is a good thing. Seems to fly in the face of everything we constantly preach to the rest of the world.
Not that our government is famed for its consistent foreign policy.

nope but it's ignorantly short sighted to assume everything will be better for either the Egyptian people or for the country on a world Stage.

+1 to Chicos

[GGGG]

Really odd that any American would suggest that keeping Mubarak in power , in he face of a popular, largely peaceful and pro-Democracy revolt against him, is a good thing. Seems to fly in the face of everything we constantly preach to the rest of the world.
Not that our government is famed for its consistent foreign policy.

I think you have hit the nail on the head.  Promoting democracy sounds really good, but honestly, sometimes it just isn't the best thing to do.  Honestly, it gets in the way sometimes with our foreign policy.

[Pakuni]

nope but it's ignorantly short sighted to assume everything will be better for either the Egyptian people or for the country on a world Stage.

+1 to Chicos

Who's made that assumption? What the Egyptians get in Mubarak's place may very well be worse. But that's their decision to make. The U.S. certainly has a place in, hopefully, guiding them in the right direction. But it's not our place to tell them they're better off under a military dictatorship, much less prop up that dictatorship in the face of a popular, peaceful and pro-Democracy revolt.
At the end of the day, isn't it a tad hypocritical for us to invade some countries under the guise of replacing tyranny while defending similar tyranny elsewhere?

[akmarq]

Who's made that assumption? What the Egyptians get in Mubarak's place may very well be worse. But that's their decision to make. The U.S. certainly has a place in, hopefully, guiding them in the right direction. But it's not our place to tell them they're better off under a military dictatorship, much less prop up that dictatorship in the face of a popular, peaceful and pro-Democracy revolt.
At the end of the day, isn't it a tad hypocritical for us to invade some countries under the guise of replacing tyranny while defending similar tyranny elsewhere?

Thank you for patiently and constructively rephrasing my opinion. Regardless of what our foreign policy interests in Egypt are the United States cannot claim to champion peace and democracy and then in good faith keep people like Mubarak in power. To those who have legitimate concerns about extremism taking hold, that is not a reason to prevent a people from choosing their own leadership.

We already tried Real Politik once. It didn't work.

EDIT: Added quote

[hdog1017]

We need to send Rosiak there to get the inside scoop.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

At the end of the day, isn't it a tad hypocritical for us to invade some countries under the guise of replacing tyranny while defending similar tyranny elsewhere?

Of course it is.  It's a game we've played for 200+ years.  Hypocrisy abounds in public policy decisions like this (and others), nothing new at all.  It comes down often to what is in our best national interests or those of our allies.

I don't know how this turns out, could be better or could be worse.  Certainly in Iran back in 1979 when we "let the people decide" it turned out worse for us and the region.  Sometimes supporting a brutal dictator is better than having a rogue regime, even if it forces us in bed with someone that makes us feel icky...or dare say, makes us squirm.

[Pakuni]

I don't know how this turns out, could be better or could be worse.  Certainly in Iran back in 1979 when we "let the people decide" it turned out worse for us and the region.  Sometimes supporting a brutal dictator is better than having a rogue regime, even if it forces us in bed with someone that makes us feel icky...or dare say, makes us squirm.

Ummm .... no, we didn't "let the people decide" in Iran. Our refusal to let the people decide in the mid 1950s is why there was such a vast anti-U.S. sentiment there at the time of the revolution and for decades prior. We propped up a brutal regime for years, and helped overthrow a Democratically elected prime minister.
Here endeth the lesson.

Look, I'm not pollyanna enough to suggest we never have to ally ourselves with shady characters for the greater good. But Egypt does not seem to be one of those cases. We cannot ignore or fail  to support - I'll say it again - a popular, peacegul pro-Democracy movement against a dictatorship out of fear that an equally unpopular and unsupported faction may assume power.

Whatever happened to the Chicos who preaches about doing the right thing?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

http://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/36106105843232768

who cares about jake tapper.  what does tom oates have to say?

[Pakuni]

who cares about jake tapper.  what does tom oates have to say?

He says therE are too many JUCOs on the University of Giza's soccer team.
Mocklingly refers to them as Giza Community College. He, of course, is a shill for Cairo State.

[ChicosBailBonds]

From one Israeli newspaper


Hosni Mubarak had harsh words for the United States and what he described as its misguided quest for democracy in the Middle East in a telephone call with an Israeli lawmaker a day before he quit as Egypt's president. The legislator, former cabinet minister Benjamin Ben-Eliezer, said on TV Friday that he came away from the 20-minute conversation on Thursday with the feeling the 82-year-old leader realized "it was the end of the Mubarak era". "He had very tough things to say about the United States," said Ben-Eliezer, a member of the Labor Party who has held talks with Mubarak on numerous occasions while serving in various Israeli coalition governments. "He gave me a lesson in democracy and said: 'We see the democracy the United States spearheaded in Iran and with Hamas, in Gaza, and that's the fate of the Middle East,'" Ben-Eliezer said. "'They may be talking about democracy but they don't know what they're talking about and the result will be extremism and radical Islam,'" he quoted Mubarak as saying.

U.S. support for pro-democracy elements in Iran has not led to regime change in the Islamic Republic, and Hamas, a group Washington considers to be a terrorist organization, won a 2006 Palestinian election promoted by the United States. Hamas seized control of the Gaza Strip in 2007 after a coalition government it formed with Western-backed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas collapsed in a power struggle. Ben-Eliezer said Mubarak expanded in the telephone call on "what he expects will happen in the Middle East after his fall". "He contended the snowball (of civil unrest) won't stop in Egypt and it wouldn't skip any Arab country in the Middle East and in the Gulf.