collapse

* Resources


UDM 4

* 2018-2019 SOTG


2018-19 Season SoG Tally
Howard11
S Hauser4
John4
Anim3
Chartouny2

'17-18 * '16-17 *
'15-16'14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

Symir!!! 2019!!! by Newsdreams
[Today at 11:58:12 AM]


2019-20 Non-Conference Schedule by Mr. Nielsen
[Today at 11:57:30 AM]


Recruiting as of 6/15/19 by Research Report
[Today at 11:53:55 AM]


NCAA to tighten transfer rules by Cheeks
[Today at 11:52:18 AM]


Reseating... by UWW2MU
[Today at 11:37:02 AM]


POLL:Uconn to Big East good or bad? by Fluffy Blue Monster
[Today at 11:23:16 AM]


Advocare Orlando by mubb3434
[Today at 11:16:31 AM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: A long offseason

Marquette
Marquette

Madness

Date/Time: Oct 4, 2019
TV: ???
Schedule for 2018-19
24-10

Author Topic: please play your bench Buzz  (Read 10962 times)

Norm

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2098
please play your bench Buzz
« on: January 18, 2011, 09:35:51 PM »
I think EWill and J Jones should have been in sooner, but MU is up 30 now - give them some playing time!

CrazyEcho

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 368
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2011, 09:40:08 PM »
Great idea, especially in light of the Louisville game. 

pux90mex

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2011, 09:40:46 PM »
Nah, I think Buzz is right in keeping everyone in after the Ville debacle. With 5 min to go, then the bench can clear.

Lennys Tap

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9372
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2011, 09:41:02 PM »
I think EWill and J Jones should have been in sooner, but MU is up 30 now - give them some playing time!

After Saturday, don't think he'll call off the dogs with over 8 minutes left.

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 14596
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2011, 09:42:23 PM »
7 to go.   It's time.   Let Blue, Cadougan, DG, EWill and JJ finish from here.    With a little Frozena mixed in.   An injury to a starter would be unforgivable at this point. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

kipsbayeagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 749
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2011, 09:42:51 PM »
Yeah put them in.  This team ain't louisville

nyg

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6103
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2011, 09:45:32 PM »
Up 36 on a terrible team with 6 to go and no bench yet. Depaul like an AAU team, Not Louisville.  Man, its 36 point lead.

Gardner, Jones and EWill probably wondering if they will ever play in a game.

Norm

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2098
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2011, 09:46:39 PM »
After Saturday, don't think he'll call off the dogs with over 8 minutes left.
Yeah, but its a 35 point lead now with just over 6 to play - against DePaul. They hardly ever play with the top 8. Today would have been a good time to play them in the mix.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 10:51:02 PM by Norm »

mviale

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2321
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2011, 09:49:10 PM »
I think EWill and J Jones should have been in sooner, but MU is up 30 now - give them some playing time!
We just lost a game where we had a lead of 18 and we still lose.  KILL KILL KILLL
You heard it here first. Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27259

DJO's Pump Fake

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 574
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2011, 09:51:21 PM »
IMO he waited a perfect amount of time.  Reinforce how we need to keep the pedal on till the end. 

Norm

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2098
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2011, 09:57:13 PM »
IMO he waited a perfect amount of time.  Reinforce how we need to keep the pedal on till the end.  
Sure, but can't Buzz mix in 5 minutes of EWill with 4 regulars with a 20 point lead with 15 minutes to play and still keep attacking? Same with Jones. Why do they have to go in as a unit at the end in just mop up duty?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 10:51:30 PM by Norm »

VegasWarrior77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2234
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2011, 10:16:34 PM »
I would like to have seen Buzz selectively substitute and try various combinations by adding EWil, Ox and JJones with the starters @ various times.  This is our last tuneup before the gauntlet begins!
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein

wardle2wade

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 777
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2011, 10:27:42 PM »
Did anyone really think Buzz would pull the starters with 6min left?  No way, no how.  After Saturday's debacle, he wanted to make sure the guys knew how to sweep the leg by attacking.   

Also, when you have a bitter break-up, isn't a "slumpbuster" the best cure to forget the heartbreak?  Perhaps Buzz recognized that DePaul was the low-hanging fruit.

MU Ted

  • Registered User
  • Walk-On
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2011, 10:29:55 PM »
slumpbuster...perfect analogy

brewcity77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 19166
  • Alan Bykowski
    • Brew City Ball
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2011, 06:08:41 AM »
Plain and simple, Buzz shouldn't pull his starters until the other team does. If they haven't waved the white flag, why should we?

GGGG

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 25207
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2011, 07:07:33 AM »
They played about as much as they should have, and about as well as expected.

Let me also add, that I think we have a bias toward wanting to see the bench play more.  It is frankly why we watch the end of these blow out games.  Remember that our bias isn't Buzz's bias.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 07:25:04 AM by The Sultan of South Wayne »

21Jumpstreet

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2011, 07:39:17 AM »
Definitely wanted to see Melo.  Frozena should never play in another game.

Norm

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2098
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2011, 08:30:59 AM »
One of the reasons we blew the Louisville game is because our main 6 guys were pretty tired and made some mental mistakes out there in the last 5 minutes. Louisville was on fire, but MU took dumb shots and were not moving on offense. I was hoping that Buzz would have played his bench more in the DePaul game so he could give EWill, J Jones and Gardner some actual quality time to get soem more experience, and even more so, some confidence that they can play when called upon in non-garbage time.

I'm not calling for Buzz to play these guys 10-15 minutes a game. But if they never play, we don't establish any real depth to the team ,which is supposedly the most talented in years. I was just hoping he could play these guys at maybe 5 minutes spurts with 4 of the regulars to get them better game experience.

Ruby

  • Registered User
  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2011, 08:49:25 AM »
I don't quite get the obsession of some with wanting Buzz to play everyone. This isn't 5th grade basketball.  The best players play. The guys who earned the right to play, play. I'm more concerned with who is on the court than who is sitting on the bench.   

mu_hilltopper

  • Warrior
  • Global Moderator
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6328
  • Arby's is my spirit animal.
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2011, 09:06:24 AM »
The concept that you keep your starters in until the other team empties it's own bench is crazy talk.

Yes, that's *A* reason you would empty your bench, but there are plenty of others.   A losing team, like DePaul, may not wave the white flag for a dozen reasons, including the simple, obvious need to work on their game.   There's such a thing as teaching "never give up" as well. 

Other reasons for a winning team pulling starters .. give your supporting cast some PT, which helps in two ways.  First, it helps them develop outside practice.  Second, maybe it improves morale.  I imagine sitting on the bench in a 30 point blowout does not do wonders for your psyche, as in, I'm such a crappy player, I can't even get into this blowout.  

Sure, the result could be, hey, I need to work harder in practice and get better.  Or, the result is, screw this.  I'm transferring.  

I reject the "this isn't little league" argument.   These guys aren't getting paid a salary (besides a free education they'll use while playing in Estonia.)   The guys have egos, and as coach, you are at the mercy of teenagers. 

Go ahead, roll the dice on not putting them in during a blow out, both on the kids sitting, and on the unforgivable injury to a starter playing garbage minutes.

NersEllenson

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6735
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2011, 09:22:43 AM »
The concept that you keep your starters in until the other team empties it's own bench is crazy talk.

Yes, that's *A* reason you would empty your bench, but there are plenty of others.   A losing team, like DePaul, may not wave the white flag for a dozen reasons, including the simple, obvious need to work on their game.   There's such a thing as teaching "never give up" as well. 

Other reasons for a winning team pulling starters .. give your supporting cast some PT, which helps in two ways.  First, it helps them develop outside practice.  Second, maybe it improves morale.  I imagine sitting on the bench in a 30 point blowout does not do wonders for your psyche, as in, I'm such a crappy player, I can't even get into this blowout.  

Sure, the result could be, hey, I need to work harder in practice and get better.  Or, the result is, screw this.  I'm transferring.  

I reject the "this isn't little league" argument.   These guys aren't getting paid a salary (besides a free education they'll use while playing in Estonia.)   The guys have egos, and as coach, you are at the mercy of teenagers. 

Go ahead, roll the dice on not putting them in during a blow out, both on the kids sitting, and on the unforgivable injury to a starter playing garbage minutes.

Agree with a lot of your analysis here...but also think that with what just happened at Lville - paranoia had to be at an all time high of possibly losing a late lead.  The game also provided a good teaching example for MU's top players to keep the foot on the gas..and not get passive offensivel or devfensively - even when holding a commanding lead.

All that said...if an injury occured..it would be terrible - and also I do agree that as an end of the bench player..it probably would bum me out if I couldn't get into a game where we are up 25 with 5 minutes left...
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

MerrittsMustache

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4676
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2011, 09:41:41 AM »
The concept that you keep your starters in until the other team empties it's own bench is crazy talk.

Yes, that's *A* reason you would empty your bench, but there are plenty of others.   A losing team, like DePaul, may not wave the white flag for a dozen reasons, including the simple, obvious need to work on their game.   There's such a thing as teaching "never give up" as well. 

Other reasons for a winning team pulling starters .. give your supporting cast some PT, which helps in two ways.  First, it helps them develop outside practice.  Second, maybe it improves morale.  I imagine sitting on the bench in a 30 point blowout does not do wonders for your psyche, as in, I'm such a crappy player, I can't even get into this blowout.  

Sure, the result could be, hey, I need to work harder in practice and get better.  Or, the result is, screw this.  I'm transferring.  

I reject the "this isn't little league" argument.   These guys aren't getting paid a salary (besides a free education they'll use while playing in Estonia.)   The guys have egos, and as coach, you are at the mercy of teenagers. 

Go ahead, roll the dice on not putting them in during a blow out, both on the kids sitting, and on the unforgivable injury to a starter playing garbage minutes.

If a player has the attitude that he'd rather transfer than work harder in practice, I don't want him on the roster.

It's easy to say "Let the guys at the end of the bench play in a blowout," but when a coach empties the bench, the last thing he wants to do is make more substitutions, particularly because he'd be putting a contributor back into the game. That's why coaches typically don't empty the bench with 6, 7, 8 minutes left like some people call for. They give players 9 thru 12 about 2-4 minutes because that's a fair amount of time to avoid having to sub for anyone. Buzz could pull Butler, DJO and Crowder with 8 minutes left but he'd likely have to put them back later in the game when one of the EOB* guys needs a blow.

I do think that there are occasions where it would be beneficial to put one of the EOB guys in to get some work with the regulars. However, many coaches would rather keep their regulars in so that they can work on specific things (set plays, defensive rotations, press-break, etc) in real game situations. IMO, Buzz feels that it's more important to have his top 8 guys on the same page than to have the EOB guys getting a few minutes of experience just in case.


* - EOB = "end of bench"

mu_hilltopper

  • Warrior
  • Global Moderator
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6328
  • Arby's is my spirit animal.
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2011, 10:01:46 AM »
Listening to the post-game, Buzz "took 1000% responsibility for the loss at UL."  

I write that to suggest it wasn't the players who took the foot off the gas.  (Although it was a part, sure.)

In any event, DePaul is not Louisville.  The BC is not the Yum center.  With 8 to go, it was as over as any game gets.  DePaul just did not have the horsepower to even think about a 30 point comeback.  

If a player has the attitude that he'd rather transfer than work harder in practice, I don't want him on the roster.


The problem with that is .. you have freshmen on your team because they eventually turn into sophomores.  The investment in one recruit is HUGE.   While Duke probably doesn't recruit projects, MU has a number of them on their team every year.   Kids will mature.  You need to keep them around until they pay off.   Guess what?  These kids aren't going to be 100% mentally strong every day and stick with you.

A weeks worth of a kid being pissed off with the wrong guys whispering in their ear about PT and better usage .. and suddenly your investment just went to zero.


Lennys Tap

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9372
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2011, 10:02:10 AM »
Ox and Jamail played 4 minutes last night. E Will 3 because he was on the sidelines waiting to enter for nearly a minute. And people are bi*ching because they didn't get in ONE minute earlier? Gimme a break. We could beat Duke by 20 at Cameron and some people would find something to complain about.

mu_hilltopper

  • Warrior
  • Global Moderator
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6328
  • Arby's is my spirit animal.
Re: please play your bench Buzz
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2011, 10:20:26 AM »
I'm not bitching because of one minute.  Up 30 with 11 to go.  We were up 33 with 8 to go.  Up 38 with 6 to go.  

JJ and Gardner were the first to get in at 4:08
EWill at 3,
Frozena at 1:26

Sure, in the end we're "bitching" about a few minutes.   Watching in the BC, they were very long minutes, with many thinking, wow, where's Gardner?  Ewill? Jones? Man, those guys must be terrible if they aren't playing now.  Start the transfer clock.