No foul on that last play?

[StillWarriors]

I watched it several times, and I'm pretty sure there was no contact. Looked to me like they both slipped. Didn't go back to see if someone had gone down in that area leading up to it, but it sure looked like they both slipped. Helluva game, but we needed a W.

[El Duderino]

Why did we throw the ball out of bounds without a deflection against Wisconsin?  Sometimes kids make odd plays in crunch time.

I watched the play many times on the DVR, no trip from what I can see. I do think he got him on the hip a bit, but believe it was not going to be called.  If the shoe was on the other foot and a call made with MU up, people here would go ballistic.  Can you imagine MU at home, up 1 against Vandy and a call made in that situation...there would be riot here.

As for why the defender fell down....wouldn't that be because he was fighting through the screen?

I watched it multiple times and thought there was a trip, but an unintentional trip, more so that the defender was just standing there and DJO tripped over the defenders foot. Not sure if that's technically a foul though?

[ChicosBailBonds]

It's interesting to see how many people here said no trip vs unintentional trip vs hip contact vs blatant trip....opinions all over the place.

What does that lead me to believe..... NO CALL would be correct.  If we can't figure it out here with multiple replays, angles, etc and come to different opinions, why would we expect there to be a call at the end of the game happening in real time?

[chren21]

I see no contact between thier feet.  Looks like DJO was out of control leaning too far and slipped or just feel cause he was trying to go to fast.  He had plenty of time to get to the basket if he stayed up.

[timinatorx3]

Why did we throw the ball out of bounds without a deflection against Wisconsin?  Sometimes kids make odd plays in crunch time.

I watched the play many times on the DVR, no trip from what I can see.  I do think he got him on the hip a bit, but believe it was not going to be called.  If the shoe was on the other foot and a call made with MU up, people here would go ballistic.  Can you imagine MU at home, up 1 against Vandy and a call made in that situation...there would be riot here.

As for why the defender fell down....wouldn't that be because he was fighting through the screen?

Would that be similar to Georgetown getting three shots in OT in 2008 vs. MU? Yes I can imagine.

[MUfan12]

I watched it a couple times, frame by frame. There was definitely contact with the Vandy player. He certainly didn't trip over Vander, or his own feet.

Would have been a very, very tough call in that situation. But no tougher than the call on James against GTown a couple years back. About time we get one of those.

[timinatorx3]

I watched it a couple times, frame by frame. There was definitely contact with the Vandy player. He certainly didn't trip over Vander, or his own feet.

Would have been a very, very tough call in that situation. But no tougher than the call on James against GTown a couple years back. About time we get one of those.

timinatorx3 likes this.

[El Duderino]

It's interesting to see how many people here said no trip vs unintentional trip vs hip contact vs blatant trip....opinions all over the place.

What does that lead me to believe..... NO CALL would be correct.  If we can't figure it out here with multiple replays, angles, etc and come to different opinions, why would we expect there to be a call at the end of the game happening in real time?

I don't think there was anything blatant enough either for fans to blame the ref for not calling a foul there as if they swallowed their whistle on a clear obvious foul.

That said, does anyone know what the rule book states if a defender is just standing in a spot and not sticking his leg out to purposely trip a guy penetrating, but their feet do tangle causing the offensive player to trip and fall?

I'm curious because my buddy called right after the game all pissed off by the no call and i said that well the trip was unintentional, so that's probably why there was no call. My buddy though said even an unintentional trip is a foul because it impedes the offensive player. I have no clue either way?

[timinatorx3]

I don't think there was anything blatant enough either for fans to blame the ref for not calling a foul there as if they swallowed their whistle on a clear obvious foul.

That said, does anyone know what the rule book states if a defender is just standing in a spot and not sticking his leg out to purposely trip a guy penetrating, but their feet do tangle causing the offensive player to trip and fall?

I'm curious because my buddy called right after the game all pissed off by the no call and i said that well the trip was unintentional, so that's probably why there was no call. My buddy though said even an unintentional trip is a foul because it impedes the offensive player. I have no clue either way?

This is a good question. It seems to me that intent doesn't ever factor into whether or not it is a foul though (well tonight it did...) But i would like to see a definitive answer as well... I do not think the trip in this game was intentional but a trip there was.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I watched it a couple times, frame by frame. There was definitely contact with the Vandy player. He certainly didn't trip over Vander, or his own feet.

Would have been a very, very tough call in that situation. But no tougher than the call on James against GTown a couple years back. About time we get one of those.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/photos?gameId=303630238&photoId=1034865

[MUfan12]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/photos?gameId=303630238&photoId=1034865

Umm... okay? That was after the contact. The guy he made contact with would have been behind, and out of that shot.

Not sure what that was supposed to prove.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I watched it a couple times, frame by frame. There was definitely contact with the Vandy player. He certainly didn't trip over Vander, or his own feet.

Would have been a very, very tough call in that situation. But no tougher than the call on James against GTown a couple years back. About time we get one of those.

The difference, in my opinion, is the call on DJ (which was a bad call) was done on a shot attempt which is going to have the refs all over it.  This was a guy trying to get around his own player laying down a high screen.  The refs, right or wrong, are going to be analyzing a shot attempt a lot more than a play at the top of the key involving a screen.  IMO.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Umm... okay? That was after the contact. The guy he made contact with would have been behind, and out of that shot.

Not sure what that was supposed to prove.

Doesn't prove anything.  I just thought people would want to see the photo.  I thought the caption was interesting as well.

[MUfan12]

The difference, in my opinion, is the call on DJ (which was a bad call) was done on a shot attempt which is going to have the refs all over it.  This was a guy trying to get around his own player laying down a high screen.  The refs, right or wrong, are going to be analyzing a shot attempt a lot more than a play at the top of the key involving a screen.  IMO.

Good points. We're on the same page regarding the call tonight. No call was probably right in that situation.

Regarding the photo, I thought that was in response to my post. My bad.

[El Duderino]

This is a good question. It seems to me that intent doesn't ever factor into whether or not it is a foul though (well tonight it did...) But i would like to see a definitive answer as well... I do not think the trip in this game was intentional but a trip there was.

That how i felt and in watching lots of basketball over the years, i've seen offensive players trip quite a bit on the feet of defenders in both college/the NBA, yet sometimes the refs call a foul and other times let it go.

Only because it happened on the last play of a 1 point game did it finally make me question what the actual rule on that is? Players feet tangle quite a bit in basketball games and in most cases, it's not the defender intentionally sticking his foot out to trip the guy penetrating.

Given i've never noticed a very clear trend by most refs in how to call plays where an offensive/defensive player get their feet tangled, i wonder if it's one of those ambiguous deals where a ref simply gets to decide on his own whether on offensive player tripping on a defenders foot is a foul?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Nashville, Tenn. — The Marquette Golden Eagles' search for a quality win continues.

And the latest missed opportunity was also the team's most painful, as Andre Walker's layup with 4.1 seconds left propelled the No. 24 Vanderbilt Commodores to a 77-76 win Wednesday night at Memorial Gym.

MU (9-4) got the ball back with a chance to win, but Darius Johnson-Odom's sprint with the ball coming out of a timeout ended with the junior guard seemingly tripping over teammate Vander Blue about 25 feet away from the basket as the freshman tried to set a screen. The ball bounced away as time expired.

"It was supposed to be a brush screen for me," Johnson-Odom said. "I was trying to get to the rim. At first I got hit on the arm, and then I tripped. I don't know if it was a tough call for them to make or whatnot, but that was the play."


http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/112636614.html

[timinatorx3]

The difference, in my opinion, is the call on DJ (which was a bad call) was done on a shot attempt which is going to have the refs all over it.  This was a guy trying to get around his own player laying down a high screen.  The refs, right or wrong, are going to be analyzing a shot attempt a lot more than a play at the top of the key involving a screen.  IMO.

At the same time, wouldn't a play with the refs "all over it" be more prone to having a correct call made? The only pattern I can see is that "officiating" is inconsistent and the reasonable expectation of objectivity is unreasonable.

[timinatorx3]

Nashville, Tenn. — The Marquette Golden Eagles' search for a quality win continues.

And the latest missed opportunity was also the team's most painful, as Andre Walker's layup with 4.1 seconds left propelled the No. 24 Vanderbilt Commodores to a 77-76 win Wednesday night at Memorial Gym.

MU (9-4) got the ball back with a chance to win, but Darius Johnson-Odom's sprint with the ball coming out of a timeout ended with the junior guard seemingly tripping over teammate Vander Blue about 25 feet away from the basket as the freshman tried to set a screen. The ball bounced away as time expired.

"It was supposed to be a brush screen for me," Johnson-Odom said. "I was trying to get to the rim. At first I got hit on the arm, and then I tripped. I don't know if it was a tough call for them to make or whatnot, but that was the play."


http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/112636614.html

So the player involved also thought he was fouled?

[westcoastwarrior]

I Watched the replay in slow motion on the HD DVR... Do not look at the feet...look at DJO's waist....completely hooked by the Vandy player as he was falling.  Definate foul!

[ChicosBailBonds]

So the player involved also thought he was fouled?

He said he was hit on the arm (which is what I saw with the hip brush) and then he said "I tripped" not "he tripped me".  That was interesting.

Rosiak seems to say he tripped over Vander, which is also possible.   

Seems, again, pretty clear to me that no one really knows what happens despite different angles, replays, theories, etc so it shouldn't surprise anyone that it was a non-call.  It certainly wasn't open and shut or we wouldn't have so many opinions on this.

[timinatorx3]

He said he was hit on the arm (which is what I saw with the hip brush) and then he said "I tripped" not "he tripped me".  That was interesting.

Rosiak seems to say he tripped over Vander, which is also possible.   

Seems, again, pretty clear to me that no one really knows what happens despite different angles, replays, theories, etc so it shouldn't surprise anyone that it was a non-call.  It certainly wasn't open and shut or we wouldn't have so many opinions on this.

Well it doesn't surprise me DJO doesn't name names... he was driving and although I 've never played D1 basketball I assume things happen fairly quickly when you're driving to the basket... Also I would find it odd if DJO and Vander Blue tripped over each other and a Vanderbilt player arbitrarily fell to the floor at the same time as DJO, and Vander stayed upright, although I guess it's possible. Also, wouldn't getting hit on the arm be a foul? Was Blue trying to strip the ball from DJO?

[timinatorx3]

Also sorry to harp on this so much... what's done is done and whether or not a foul should have been called, none was and that is the unfortunate reality we live in.

[GGGG]

I watched it a couple times, frame by frame. There was definitely contact with the Vandy player. He certainly didn't trip over Vander, or his own feet.

I will also point out that referees don't have the ability to view it a couple of times, frame by frame.

[tower912]

Otule was forced to guard two men on that last play. It was a breakdown by the other defenders

Crowder was on the guard at the top of the key and Buycks came to help with a fly-by double team.   Re-wind the tape a few seconds and see if they switched, with Crowder taking the guard and Buycks the big.   Then, when Buycks left to double team, you see that Otule had his guy sealed effectively.   He hadn't opened up to guard both.   When the dumpdown came, Otule left his guy and got there a 1/2 second late.     IMO, Buycks and Crowder should not have switched, leaving DB one on one on top and Crowder down low.    Didn't happen.   If the the Vandy guard rushes his pass, DB swats it with his flyby and we are all singing and dancing.    Ah, well.

[bilsu]

I did not bother to watch the replay. What upsets me is that I believed with 4.1 seconds we would not get the ball upcourt to even get a shot off. Two times already this year and no chance at a game winning shot. That happen several times last year. The first time was DJO throwing it over Buycks head against Florida St. There were a couple of other games to. I think Notre Dame was one of them. I guessing 5 games between the two years that we had last shot that we did not get off.