The Bottom Line

[VwArrior1]

If you have a roster full of high-major players, transfers will happen.  Someone is always going to want more playing time.  It is part of the game and some need to learn to accept that.

[lab_warrior]

All good, totally logical points.
I feel there needs to be more hysterical, panic-laced dread about the rest of the season, Buzz' job, and the MU basketball program.  A player is transferring...WORLDS ARE ENDING HERE!

[Boone]

Be that as it may, our attrition rate dating back to Crean's tenure is about as high as that of the teenage workforce at your local McDonalds.

[esotericmindguy]

An average player at that. A pg that can't shoot.

[ChicosBailBonds]

All good, totally logical points.
I feel there needs to be more hysterical, panic-laced dread about the rest of the season, Buzz' job, and the MU basketball program.  A player is transferring...WORLDS ARE ENDING HERE!

No one disagrees.....of course the way some posters here now accept transfers TODAY vs, say, a few years ago, is rather entertaining. 

[Mobot]

The argument could be made that we didn't have a roster full of high major players 3-4 years ago and the transfers really hurt MU.

[Pakuni]

The argument could be made that we didn't have a roster full of high major players 3-4 years ago and the transfers really hurt MU.

Likewise, the argument could be made that a fair amount of those transfers were made for reasons other than playing time/opportunity.

Regardless, transfers happen. Particularly among young players who become convinced, rightly or wrongly, that they deserve more opportunity than they're getting.
I'd rather have players leaving under these circumstances than after getting caught breaking-and-entering and beating up their girlfriends, as has occurred at Chico's shining city on a hill about 90 miles to the west.

[avid1010]

Be that as it may, our attrition rate dating back to Crean's tenure is about as high as that of the teenage workforce at your local McDonalds.

Are you just talking or do you have data on this?  I'd love to know how we stack up compared to other high majors.

[Marqevans]

If you have a roster full of high-major players, transfers will happen.  Someone is always going to want more playing time.  It is part of the game and some need to learn to accept that.

I agree 100%.  If you improve the quality of your roster, someone is going to be upset about playing time. Better they leave than be a negative influence on the team because they are not healthy.  As far as Mr. Smith and his family goes, if they believe  he can get to the NBA sooner with another team more power to them.  All I can say is, if Jerel McNeal didn't make it, I doubt Reggie will make it.

[ecompt]

I think the key words here are "improve the quality of the roster." That still remains to be seen.

[IAmMarquette]

I think the key words here are "improve the quality of the roster." That still remains to be seen.

I think it's safe to say that, 1-12 (now 11) this is likely the best roster of the last decade. Of course, other teams were certainly better at the top.

[mueron]

No one disagrees.....of course the way some posters here now accept transfers TODAY vs, say, a few years ago, is rather entertaining. 

It's simple chicos crean was seen as a world class butt wipe and williams seems to be a pretty likeable guy so he is given the benefit of the doubt. It;s not fair and it's not right. But what ev.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Likewise, the argument could be made that a fair amount of those transfers were made for reasons other than playing time/opportunity.

Regardless, transfers happen. Particularly among young players who become convinced, rightly or wrongly, that they deserve more opportunity than they're getting.
I'd rather have players leaving under these circumstances than after getting caught breaking-and-entering and beating up their girlfriends, as has occurred at Chico's shining city on a hill about 90 miles to the west.

Nice.  Yes, because you know I and others condone that kind of behavior.  In fact, we encourage it.  Of course, none of that has ever happened at MU and not swept under the rug....no, no.  Never.  (Edited to put in teal as I realize some people need that visual aid)


So let's get back to reality, shall we.  I thought we were talking about transfers and stability of a program.  As stated, I don't like to admit it, but they are the epitome of stability and the epitome of success.  They don't get the recruits we do, yet they go to the NCAAs every year, RARELY have someone in trouble (yes, Pakuni pointed out two kids that were bounced before ever playing a single second for the team), don't have players that transfer, etc.

I can't stand their brand of basketball and a number of other things about them, but I tip my hat to what they've done.  They have established a program that wins almost all the time, has clearly been the best program in the state the last decade plus, their kids know what they are getting into (either because it's explained up front or they don't bother recruiting kids that are head cases or parents that are head cases) and they just get keep on going on.  Remarkably stable and remarkable results.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

It's simple chicos crean was seen as a world class butt wipe and williams seems to be a pretty likeable guy so he is given the benefit of the doubt. It;s not fair and it's not right. But what ev.

So you're saying that people are being hypocritical pricks?  That's all I wanted to hear, we're getting closer.  It took a few years of therapy, but I think people are finally having a breakthrough.  This is so exciting. 

[madtownwarrior]

not hypocritical, while it was pointed out that one was a raging dbag who treated people like crap and  the other is like-able and treats people well, the other fact is that the current one has deeper and more consistent recruiting classes which gives more slack for transfers

So you're saying that people are being hypocritical pricks?  That's all I wanted to hear, we're getting closer.  It took a few years of therapy, but I think people are finally having a breakthrough.  This is so exciting.  

[avid1010]

So you're saying that people are being hypocritical pricks? 

So you're going to call people "pricks" because they trash a coach who you admit is a jerk?  He was the most recent coach to burn MU, and was a jerk in the process (by your own admission).  This leads you to calling people pricks...keep it classy bud 

[Pakuni]

Nice.  Yes, because you know I and others condone that kind of behavior.  In fact, we encourage it.  Of course, none of that has ever happened at MU and not swept under the rug....no, no.  Never.

Oh look ... it's Chico's pretending he knows the deep dark secrets of Marquette basketball. How rare.
I'm merely pointing out the contradiction over you claiming "squirminess" over one program that hasn't had players in trouble while praising the bejeezus over another that has had numerous players in trouble.

They don't get the recruits we do, yet they go to the NCAAs every year

Yes they do. From 2000 to 2008, MU landed eight RSCI top 100 players. Wisconsin landed nine RSCI top 100 players.

, RARELY have someone in trouble (yes, Pakuni pointed out two kids that were bounced before ever playing a single second for the team)

Boo Wade, Marcetteaus McGee, Diamond Taylor, Jeremy Glover ... yep, pretty rare. Love the "never played a minute defense." Must be why you were such an ardent defender of Buzz over Monterale Clark. Oh, wait, you weren't.

don't have players that transfer, etc.

Mickey Perry, DeAaron Williams and Neil Plank might beg to differ.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Oh look ... it's Chico's pretending he knows the deep dark secrets of Marquette basketball. How rare.
I'm merely pointing out the contradiction over you claiming "squirminess" over one program that hasn't had players in trouble while praising the bejeezus over another that has had numerous players in trouble.


Yes they do. From 2000 to 2008, MU landed eight RSCI top 100 players. Wisconsin landed nine RSCI top 100 players.

Boo Wade, Marcetteaus McGee, Diamond Taylor, Jeremy Glover ... yep, pretty rare. Love the "never played a minute defense." Must be why you were such an ardent defender of Buzz over Monterale Clark. Oh, wait, you weren't.

Mickey Perry, DeAaron Williams and Neil Plank might beg to differ.

Quit picking on Chicos...you wouldn't dare to do this to some other poster who obviously loves UW, er, MU basketball. 
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Waiting for the "you're mis-representing what I ACTUALLY said defense...wait for it...

[Golden Avalanche]

If you have a roster full of high-major players, transfers will happen.  Someone is always going to want more playing time.  It is part of the game and some need to learn to accept that.

I believe these statements to be true.

I also believe Marquette does not have a roster full of high-major players.

[Lennys Tap]

Madtown, Pakuni, ATL and Avid. I see Chicos is fighting again with 4 of those 5 people who constantly pick on him. Wait, those guys aren't in his fave five? Guess the number of "hypocritical pricks" around here is on the rise. Thank God we have Chicos selflessly offering his services to rid the board of such shennanigans.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Oh look ... it's Chico's pretending he knows the deep dark secrets of Marquette basketball. How rare.
I'm merely pointing out the contradiction over you claiming "squirminess" over one program that hasn't had players in trouble while praising the bejeezus over another that has had numerous players in trouble.


Yes they do. From 2000 to 2008, MU landed eight RSCI top 100 players. Wisconsin landed nine RSCI top 100 players.

Boo Wade, Marcetteaus McGee, Diamond Taylor, Jeremy Glover ... yep, pretty rare. Love the "never played a minute defense." Must be why you were such an ardent defender of Buzz over Monterale Clark. Oh, wait, you weren't.


Mickey Perry, DeAaron Williams and Neil Plank might beg to differ.

Here's the difference....UW-madison dealt with them and moved them out of the program....MU....not so much...in fact, added them to the team....THUS the squirminess.

Try to catch up Pakuni, you keep going this slow it's going to be a rough 2011.

[ChicosBailBonds]

not hypocritical, while it was pointed out that one was a raging dbag who treated people like crap and  the other is like-able and treats people well, the other fact is that the current one has deeper and more consistent recruiting classes which gives more slack for transfers

Really....maybe a few players no longer here might disagree with those statements about being treated well.

At any rate, that's not really the point.  What I've always just laughed my butt off at fans here is the utter hypocrisy in how they handle each coach.  O'Neill was a class A prick of pricks.  TC the same.  Yet people treated them differently, despite one actually delivering a Final Four and not crapping on the university every 10 seconds.

Majerus leaves MU high and dry in late June...no problem.  Crean leaves MU April 1st and leaves Buzz Williams plus a loaded Senior laden team and solid junior players....you get the idea.

It's just been funny as crap to watch, I must say.  It took several years for people to finally admit what it was all about...progress.

Now this just in, there are plenty of people in this world that are world class a-holes but they get the job done.  CEOs, politicians, coaches, etc.  If the prerequisite is to have a woody for how nice the coach is, we're in trouble.  I could give a rip how nice the coach is...GRADUATE players, Win games, DO NOT get into NCAA trouble and I'm a happy camper.  If that means you're a SOB (like Bobby was at IU), so be it. 

[avid1010]

Now this just in, there are plenty of people in this world that are world class a-holes but they get the job done.  CEOs, politicians, coaches, etc.  If the prerequisite is to have a woody for how nice the coach is, we're in trouble.  I could give a rip how nice the coach is...GRADUATE players, Win games, DO NOT get into NCAA trouble and I'm a happy camper.  If that means you're a SOB (like Bobby was at IU), so be it. 

I have to love your hypocrisies.  You would support Bobby because he graduates players, wins games, and stays clean with the NCAA, but it does not bother you that he assaults kids and owes jail time to another country.  You must hold the NCAA in pretty high regards.  I say we hire Bobby with the requirement that we play in the Puerto Rico preseason tourney.  Not sure what's wrong with expecting a coach to win the right way and be a class act.  Seems to have worked well for Wooden, Smith and so many others.  If it turns out Buzz is full of $hit with all his religous and character talk, I say can him.  If not, I'm happy with him representing MU, and I also expect him to field a quality team.

[Pakuni]

Here's the difference....UW-madison dealt with them and moved them out of the program....MU....not so much...in fact, added them to the team....THUS the squirminess.

Please name the burglars, woman beaters and suspected rapists added to the team in recent years.
Oh wait ... you only toss out accusations, never actually back them up.
Love how a guy portrays himself as the voice of morality and integrity around here while continually making cowardly, anonymous accusations without offering a shred of evidence to back them up (not to mention the childish name-calling and personal attacks upon those with whom he disagrees).
Cura personalis, indeed.

Try to catch up Pakuni, you keep going this slow it's going to be a rough 2011.

You're a funny boy.
Tell us again how UW recruits lower-ranked recruits (false), has players that stay out of trouble (false) and never has transfers (false).

[ChicosBailBonds]

I have to love your hypocrisies.  You would support Bobby because he graduates players, wins games, and stays clean with the NCAA, but it does not bother you that he assaults kids and owes jail time to another country.  You must hold the NCAA in pretty high regards.  I say we hire Bobby with the requirement that we play in the Puerto Rico preseason tourney.  Not sure what's wrong with expecting a coach to win the right way and be a class act.  Seems to have worked well for Wooden, Smith and so many others.  If it turns out Buzz is full of $hit with all his religous and character talk, I say can him.  If not, I'm happy with him representing MU, and I also expect him to field a quality team.

There's a reason why Bobby's former players love him and stood by him through thick and thin.  This whole "assaults" players is crap.  It's Woody Hayes syndrome.  Woody got canned for hitting a player, he shouldn't have done.  Of course 99.9% of what he did and the lives he improved at OSU was the real story.  Bobby improved lives left and right at IU and that is the real story.

And please, the jail time in another country.  Firs toff, Puerto Rico isn't another country...it is a US Territory.  Secondly, Puerto Rico more than 3 DECADES ago dropped this. 


And to answer your question succinctly, I would love to have a Bobby Knight at MU and win 3 national titles, graduate all but four players in 3 decades, turn out model citizens 99% of the time, etc.  IN A #$&#$ HEARTBEAT.