The Bottom Line

[ChicosBailBonds]

Please name the burglars, woman beaters and suspected rapists added to the team in recent years.
Oh wait ... you only toss out accusations, never actually back them up.
Love how a guy portrays himself as the voice of morality and integrity around here while continually making cowardly, anonymous accusations without offering a shred of evidence to back them up (not to mention the childish name-calling and personal attacks upon those with whom he disagrees).
Cura personalis, indeed.

You're a funny boy.
Tell us again how UW recruits lower-ranked recruits (false), has players that stay out of trouble (false) and never has transfers (false).

In the last decade, per the NCAA info I can find, UW-madison has had ONE transfer.  You'll forgive me for my EXAGGERATED hyperbole for having the crazed out of control statement that they don't have anyone transfer...I was wrong...they had one.   

Reading comprehension time...I said "RARELY HAS players in trouble"  ( http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=23089.msg254652#msg254652 )  I did not say NEVER...so what is that now, a False boomerang back to you or something?  I'll have to ask my 8 year old, I'm sure there's some lame double false nomenclature they use on the playground which would be appropriate here.

UW doesn't recruit lower ranked players than MU?  Gee, according to this board they sure do....in fact I've been told they are on the downhill slide because of their poor recruiting yet I don't recall you ever once stating that was false on their part.  In the Buzz era, they have landed exactly one player in the RSCI top 100...#95 Evan Anderson.   MU, on the other hand, has landed #48 Vander Blue, #47 Junior Cadougan, #67 Erik Williams, etc.

So exactly how is that statement false....is that now a triple mocha boomerang false false false accusation?

Finally, your question about the suspected women beaters, burglars, and suspected rapists added to the team in recent years...none...thank God.  Do me a favor, could you also name those ADDED to the UW-Madison team in those years as well, you know, the ones that committed those crimes and THEN were added?  Or were they students \ recruits and after their transgressions were summarily dismissed as a result? 

Thanks.  I look forward to your responses as always, especially the ones that claim how my comments were false when they weren't...those are the most special.

[MerrittsMustache]

In the last decade, per the NCAA info I can find, UW-madison has had ONE transfer.  You'll forgive me for my EXAGGERATED hyperbole for having the crazed out of control statement that they don't have anyone transfer...I was wrong...they had one.   

Reading comprehension time...I said "RARELY HAS players in trouble"  ( http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=23089.msg254652#msg254652 )  I did not say NEVER...so what is that now, a False boomerang back to you or something?  I'll have to ask my 8 year old, I'm sure there's some lame double false nomenclature they use on the playground which would be appropriate here.

UW doesn't recruit lower ranked players than MU?  Gee, according to this board they sure do....in fact I've been told they are on the downhill slide because of their poor recruiting yet I don't recall you ever once stating that was false on their part.  In the Buzz era, they have landed exactly one player in the RSCI top 100...#95 Evan Anderson.   MU, on the other hand, has landed #48 Vander Blue, #47 Junior Cadougan, #67 Erik Williams, etc.

So exactly how is that statement false....is that now a triple mocha boomerang false false false accusation?

Finally, your question about the suspected women beaters, burglars, and suspected rapists added to the team in recent years...none...thank God.  Do me a favor, could you also name those ADDED to the UW-Madison team in those years as well, you know, the ones that committed those crimes and THEN were added?  Or were they students \ recruits and after their transgressions were summarily dismissed as a result? 

Thanks.  I look forward to your responses as always, especially the ones that claim how my comments were false when they weren't...those are the most special.

What a hot, steaming pile of BS.

By your own admission, your statement that they have no one transfer IS false. For someone who often uses semantics to avoid admitting he was wrong, it seems odd that you condemn someone else for doing the same. Pakuni even mentioned a few other players who transferred but apparently they weren't in the timeframe you designated so they don't count. Either way, the statement that you made was admittedly false so how can you actually argue that all of what you had said was true?

Interesting that you use the last decade in regards to transfers but prefer to only use "the Buzz era" in regards to recruits. As Pakuni pointed out earlier, "From 2000 to 2008, MU landed eight RSCI top 100 players. Wisconsin landed nine RSCI top 100 players." If my math is correct, 9 > 8. See, he can choose his own timeframes as well.

Finally, you're the one who stated, "Here's the difference....UW-madison dealt with them and moved them out of the program....MU....not so much...in fact, added them to the team....THUS the squirminess." That is why Pakuni is asking you to name these troublemakers who have been added to the program. You respond by saying condescendingly that they haven't been added, which clearly goes against what you previously said. Also, who are the troublemakes that MU did NOT get rid of? Saunders? Hazel? Clark? My assumption is that you have "inside info" that you're not at liberty to talk about, right?

Give it a rest, Chicos.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What a hot, steaming pile of BS.

By your own admission, your statement that they have no one transfer IS false. For someone who often uses semantics to avoid admitting he was wrong, it seems odd that you condemn someone else for doing the same. Pakuni even mentioned a few other players who transferred but apparently they weren't in the timeframe you designated so they don't count. Either way, the statement that you made was admittedly false so how can you actually argue that all of what you had said was true?

Interesting that you use the last decade in regards to transfers but prefer to only use "the Buzz era" in regards to recruits. As Pakuni pointed out earlier, "From 2000 to 2008, MU landed eight RSCI top 100 players. Wisconsin landed nine RSCI top 100 players." If my math is correct, 9 > 8. See, he can choose his own timeframes as well.

Finally, you're the one who stated, "Here's the difference....UW-madison dealt with them and moved them out of the program....MU....not so much...in fact, added them to the team....THUS the squirminess." That is why Pakuni is asking you to name these troublemakers who have been added to the program. You respond by saying condescendingly that they haven't been added, which clearly goes against what you previously said. Also, who are the troublemakes that MU did NOT get rid of? Saunders? Hazel? Clark? My assumption is that you have "inside info" that you're not at liberty to talk about, right?

Give it a rest, Chicos.

MM, same can be said of Pakuni...why did he use 2000 to 2008?  Why not 2000 to 2010?  Oh, that's right...that would kill his argument and 9 wouldn't be greater than 8 because the numbers change.

The squirminess isn't hard to figure out MM, some of the very same guys we have (had) on this team purposely weren't recruited to UW-madison...FOR A REASON.   

On the transfers....I'm happy to admit I'm wrong.  I should take my own words of advice and not use ALWAYS, NEVER, or other absolute terms.  He's exactly right on Perry, Plank and Williams.  Tip of the hat to Pakuni and a bitchslap to me for being stupid and saying NEVER.

I'll state it more properly...RARELY does UW-madison have transfers....nothing comparable to what have here at MU under Crean \ Buzz.  Not even close.

[GGGG]

If you have a roster full of high-major players, transfers will happen.  Someone is always going to want more playing time.  It is part of the game and some need to learn to accept that.

Actually, most "high-major" programs that aren't going through a coaching change don't have transfer rates that equal MU's over the past two years.

[MerrittsMustache]

MM, same can be said of Pakuni...why did he use 2000 to 2008?  Why not 2000 to 2010?  Oh, that's right...that would kill his argument and 9 wouldn't be greater than 8 because the numbers change.

As I stated, Pakuni can use his own timeframes just as easily as you can. If you used a different timeframe, it would kill your argument just the same...and it did.

The squirminess isn't hard to figure out MM, some of the very same guys we have (had) on this team purposely weren't recruited to UW-madison...FOR A REASON.   

So there are criminals/woman-beaters/burglars currently on MU's roster? Who are they? Name them. Maymon supposedly wasn't recruited by UW because his father is a loon. Because of that you're willing to lump Jeronne into the same group as accused rapists? Cura personalis, as you like to say.

[Hards Alumni]

If you have a roster full of high-major players, transfers will happen.  Someone is always going to want more playing time.  It is part of the game and some need to learn to accept that.

no, the bottom line is below...
























_______________________________________________

[ChicosBailBonds]

So there are criminals/woman-beaters/burglars currently on MU's roster? Who are they? Name them. Maymon supposedly wasn't recruited by UW because his father is a loon. Because of that you're willing to lump Jeronne into the same group as accused rapists? Cura personalis, as you like to say.

Nope, just as there aren't any on UW-Madison and none that were recruited to UW-Madison.  Those incidents occurred AFTER they got there and were summarily dismissed.  The squirminess isn't related to your examples of criminality, but you know that I'm sure but it doesn't make for quite as good a complaint by you.  There are folks on MU's squad which UW-madison would not go after for a reason (and that has nothing to do with your criminal examples).

[Pakuni]

In the last decade, per the NCAA info I can find, UW-madison has had ONE transfer.  You'll forgive me for my EXAGGERATED hyperbole for having the crazed out of control statement that they don't have anyone transfer...I was wrong...they had one.  

That NCAA data is simply false.
Neil Plank, DeAaron Williams and Mickey Perry  all transferred from Wisconsin in the Bo Ryan era. Look it up.
And, if you want to be technical, Diamond Taylor, Boo Wade and Marcetteaus McGee also transferred from Wisconsin ... though for reasons you say are oh so rare.

Reading comprehension time...I said "RARELY HAS players in trouble"  ( http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=23089.msg254652#msg254652 )  I did not say NEVER...so what is that now, a False boomerang back to you or something?  I'll have to ask my 8 year old, I'm sure there's some lame double false nomenclature they use on the playground which would be appropriate here.

Really Chico's? You consider four players thrown off the team in eight years for criminal behavior to be "rare." An average of one every other year? Interesting.
I wonder if you'd feel the same if Buzz Williams had to dismiss a player every other year for being a criminal.

UW doesn't recruit lower ranked players than MU?  Gee, according to this board they sure do....in fact I've been told they are on the downhill slide because of their poor recruiting yet I don't recall you ever once stating that was false on their part.  

Give me a break Chico's. The myth of Bo winning with a bunch of lesser recruits has been dispelled here repeatedly. Why you continue to cling to it is beyond comprehension.

Finally, your question about the suspected women beaters, burglars, and suspected rapists added to the team in recent years...none...thank God.

Wait ... what?
In your previous post at 11:17 p.m. you stated it was a fact that MU has added criminals to its roster and this was the reason for your squirminess ....

"Here's the difference....UW-madison dealt with them and moved them out of the program....MU....not so much...in fact, added them to the team....THUS the squirminess. "

Then, less than two hours later, you're telling us that "none" have been added.
Well, which is it? Has MU added criminals or not?
It would be much easier to discuss these issues if you invented just one bit of fiction and stuck to it.

[MerrittsMustache]

Nope, just as there aren't any on UW-Madison and none that were recruited to UW-Madison.  Those incidents occurred AFTER they got there and were summarily dismissed.  The squirminess isn't related to your examples of criminality, but you know that I'm sure but it doesn't make for quite as good a complaint by you.  There are folks on MU's squad which UW-madison would not go after for a reason (and that has nothing to do with your criminal examples).

I never said that there were any on UW's roster. YOU made the implication that there were players like that on Marquette's roster. YOU are the one who mentioned MU players getting in trouble. YOU are the one who stated that MU adds players of this ilk to their roster. Now you want to change the subject the "squirminess" level that you have in regards to certain players. That's fine.

Do tell. Who are these MU players that UW wanted no part of? Bo recruited Vander (obviously) as well as Wilson. I don't know about Buycks but he's the only other local product on the team and doesn't appear to have any major baggage. Is there someone I'm missing? Was Frozena not slow and white enough to play the swing? Please, enlighten us.

[Lennys Tap]

The "World According to Chico" is an interesting one. Today he insists that UW has been superior both on and off the court to MU for more than a decade. However, for the first 7+ years of that 10+ year time period, Chico was in total denial, constantly ripping UW and defending all things Marquette. An epiphany occured in April of 2008, curing him of his longtime myopia and allowing him to move forward fairly and objectively. Downright mysterious.

[madtownwarrior]

I think Chico's panties are in an extra tight bundle because his favorite coach / man-crush lost to Penn State AT HOME last night in one of their rare opportunities to get a Big Ten win this year (how long will the II,II fans put up with that crap?)

I think Lenny hit the Chico's situation on the head...

[79Warrior]

I believe these statements to be true.

I also believe Marquette does not have a roster full of high-major players.

good point. I think many here want to believe the roster is loaded with high major talent. Time will tell.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Interesting that you use the last decade in regards to transfers but prefer to only use "the Buzz era" in regards to recruits. As Pakuni pointed out earlier, "From 2000 to 2008, MU landed eight RSCI top 100 players. Wisconsin landed nine RSCI top 100 players." If my math is correct, 9 > 8. See, he can choose his own timeframes as well.

After further review, I'd like some clarification on who the 9 vs 8 are

Since 2000, MU has had 15 and Wisconsin 10.

Now, if you use the 2000 to 2008 criteria, looks to me like 10 for MU and 9 for UW.  

Per Pakuni's words...

"Yes they do. From 2000 to 2008, MU landed eight RSCI top 100 players. Wisconsin landed nine RSCI top 100 players."  

Added NOTE:  6 of those top 100 UW players were 85 or worse (60%).  Only 3 MU players were (20%).  It's not just about quantity, but quality...no?

Marquette
Scott Merritt  #85
Travis Diener #40
Steve Novak #53
Dameon Mason #71
Wesley Matthews #61
Dominic James #36
Jerel McNeal #57
Trevor Mbakwe #91
Nick Williams #88
Tyshawn Taylor #73
Junior Cadougan #47
Erik Williams #67
Jeronne Maymon #73
Vander Blue #48
Jamail Jones #74


Wisconsin
Maurice Wade #90
Brian Butch #7
DeAaron Williams #91
Greg Stiemsma #37
Joe Krabbenhoft #28
Jason Bohannon #62
Trevon Hughes #88
John Leuer #86
Jarred Berggren #100
Evan Anderson #95

So, to recap, 9 is greater than 8.  But 9 is less than 10.  Furthermore, 15 is far greater than 10 and yet somehow they have been the best program in the state over the last decade.

[Pakuni]

After further review, I'd like some clarification on who the 9 vs 8 are

Since 2000, MU has had 15 and Wisconsin 10.

Now, if you use the 2000 to 2008 criteria, looks to me like 10 for MU and 9 for UW. 

Stunningly, and nefariously I guess, I left out players who never came to Marquette. Silly me, I thought they were irrelevant to a discussion of how well the respective teams play.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The "World According to Chico" is an interesting one. Today he insists that UW has been superior both on and off the court to MU for more than a decade. However, for the first 7+ years of that 10+ year time period, Chico was in total denial, constantly ripping UW and defending all things Marquette. An epiphany occured in April of 2008, curing him of his longtime myopia and allowing him to move forward fairly and objectively. Downright mysterious.

I'm a MU fan, I'll always rip UW...that's what rivals do.  I rip on UW still today....top 3 all-time probations...I have an infestation of fat Badger fans here in my town this week, the state might slip into the ocean as a result.  No, there is no love loss there at all.

The reality doesn't change, ANY way you measure it, they have had the best program the last decade and that is not an indictment of Deane, Crean, or Buzz...it's a tip of the hat to a program that signs far fewer top players than MU (15 to 10) but still gets it done year in and year out.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Give me a break Chico's. The myth of Bo winning with a bunch of lesser recruits has been dispelled here repeatedly. Why you continue to cling to it is beyond comprehension.

Nope, and I just blew that out of the water again.  15 top 100 RSCI players this decade for MU.  10 for Wisconsin.  Most of Wisconsin's not even breaking the top 85 while more than 80% of MU's breaking the top 85.  So what was that about being DISPELLED REPEATEDLY?  Perhaps you need to update your stats because you're just plain wrong.

Wait ... what?
In your previous post at 11:17 p.m. you stated it was a fact that MU has added criminals to its roster and this was the reason for your squirminess ....

"Here's the difference....UW-madison dealt with them and moved them out of the program....MU....not so much...in fact, added them to the team....THUS the squirminess. "

Then, less than two hours later, you're telling us that "none" have been added.
Well, which is it? Has MU added criminals or not?
It would be much easier to discuss these issues if you invented just one bit of fiction and stuck to it.


NOPE.  I said UW dealt with those players and removed them.  You're the one who called them criminals and such.  No where did I say MU added criminals to it's roster, you went there, not me.  I said MU added players that were squirmy before we added them.  UW removed their players after transgressions were committed.  Now, if you believe I was saying MU added criminals, then that's a failure to communicate on both our ends, because I certainly never said MU added criminals but you certainly went there nonetheless.

Reading comprehension can be your friend.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think Chico's panties are in an extra tight bundle because his favorite coach / man-crush lost to Penn State AT HOME last night in one of their rare opportunities to get a Big Ten win this year (how long will the II,II fans put up with that crap?)

I think Lenny hit the Chico's situation on the head...

LOL.  My favorite coaches are actually anyone coaching Marquette followed by Stallings at Vanderbilt (would piss myself if we could have landed him).

[ChicosBailBonds]

Stunningly, and nefariously I guess, I left out players who never came to Marquette. Silly me, I thought they were irrelevant to a discussion of how well the respective teams play.

They were irrelevant?  Odd, you said landed which I inferred to be SIGNED, if that wasn't the case then I apologize.  You see, just as I never said "criminals" or even implied it, people can read or infer things differently.  Crazy how that works in the world of the internets.  

[Pakuni]

Reading comprehension can be your friend.

OK, Chico's. Only you could write that MU added criminals (or players akin to crimianls?) and then less than two hours later deny writing it. Just like being forced to dismiss four players for being criminals in eight years (seven, actually) is a "rare" occurrence.
Seriously, how is one expected to have a sincere discussion with someone who won't even own up to his own statements?

[ChicosBailBonds]

OK, Chico's. Only you could write that MU added criminals and then less than two hours later deny writing it. Just like being forced to dismiss four players for being criminals in eight years (seven, actually) is a "rare" occurrence.
Seriously, how is one expected to have a sincere discussion with someone who won't even own up to his own statements?

I NEVER said MU added criminals, ever.  I said MU added players that make my squirm factor go through the roof.  UW had players that LATER, after signed, had criminal issues and they were dismissed.  The point I was clearly making was that MU has taken a path of adding a few folks that make you go WTF when the squirm factor was already on high.  Hopefully that finally crystalizes it for you...nowhere did I say MU added criminals.  I'm sorry that my communications were that poor or your comprehension was that distorted to think that way.  


PS  Can we finally get beyond the MYTH that UW has been recruiting better players than MU over the last decade?  I should hope so, because they clearly haven't.

[IAmMarquette]

Am I the only one on this board who wonders how some of these guys can hold down a job with all the time they spend on here...?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Am I the only one on this board who wonders how some of these guys can hold down a job with all the time they spend on here...?

The beauty of some jobs....you hit your numbers and whether you do it at 4:00am or 3:00pm, doesn't matter.  Other jobs people are chained to a desk from 9 to 5....different strokes for different folks, different job requirements for different folks.  I've got a buddy at another company that comes into his office once a month but books millions in sales from his home, on the golf course, etc. 

[rocky_warrior]

Am I the only one on this board who wonders how some of these guys can hold down a job with all the time they spend on here...?

I'm off all week and can't even (haven't chosen to?) keep up.  lol.

[4everwarriors]

Am I the only one on this board who wonders how some of these guys can hold down a job with all the time they spend on here...?

Follow ZFFB's lead, marry bread.

[Mutaman]

and owes jail time to another country. 

Oh oh. Does this mean that people are going to start demanding that Sonia Sotomayor produce her birth cirtificate? Does it mean that the guy who lead the Warriors to the title wasn't a real American?