Over-REACTION and lack of perspective..

[avid1010]

+1

Ners wins the "first guy to correct the guys who say the sky isn't falling" award.

We really should have a pool for that after each loss.  

--

Forget how we've played versus all the cupcakes.  We are 0-3 against quality/NCAA bound competition this year.  While we only lost by 3-6 points each game, none of them were ever in much doubt.  

Kenpom predicts a loss at Vandy, and I'd be a homer if I said that was wrong, so we walk away from the pre-season with zero quality wins.    Need some wins against the top half of the BE to get to the NCAAs now, and with the way we've played quality teams .. tall order.

Agreed.  When looking at how UW and Zaga have played against decent competition, not beating either of them isn't looking good.  That takes the bias out of it.  I love Buzz, but he has me puzzled on a few things....like starting Reggie.

[NotAnAlum]

Keep in mind that today we started 2 freshmen and a red shirt soph who due to injury has only played in a handful of games.  I feel the PG and 5 are the two most important positions on a college BB team and we have almost no experience at either.  Our other PG has no experience either.  So it really shouldn't suprise people that we struggle running a smooth offense or team rebounding.   I don't think Wis is all that good (but Bo will probably get them finishing in the top 4 in the big ten anyway).  We are rebuilding pure and simple.  I don't think that's an over-reaction.  We may gell and make the Dance but if we don't make a lot of progress from where we are not we will not.

[mu_hilltopper]

  I love Buzz, but he has me puzzled on a few things....like starting Reggie.

What was up with that?  Start a guy then play him 6 minutes?  Maybe it was sending some "practice" message / toughest guy thing.  Hate to see that 10 games into the season.

[brewcity77]

What was up with that?  Start a guy then play him 6 minutes?  Maybe it was sending some "practice" message / toughest guy thing.  Hate to see that 10 games into the season.

Agreed. If Cadougan's going to get 23 minutes, then get him out there from the offset. This shouldn't just be about effort in practice, it should be about the best chance to win. I never felt Reggie gave us that today.

[Jam Chowder]

I DVR'd the game today (my wife's sister had a basketball game at the same time) and was able to watch it this evening. I was too curious to wait, so I ended up watching the gamecast. While I was upset at the result, it allowed me to watch the game pretty objectively. I don't think it's over-reaction to call this team middle-of-the-road. That's exactly what they are. They're not terrible, and they may over-achieve and grab a big game here or there, but they're just not an exceptionally good team. I love 'em, I'll watch 'em, and I'll root for 'em, but I'm not expecting big things. I attribute most of it to youth, and that's fine. We've got a lot of inexperienced players this year, and it's to be expected that they're going to struggle. For the last two years, we have relied heavily on experienced seniors who had been there and done that at this level. We don't have that this year and it shows. I am certain (see: hopeful) that their problems (positioning, bad hands, lack of cohesiveness/identity) will all improve with time.

Of course, that all depends heavily on Buzz's leadership and coaching to bring these guys along. I don't doubt his ability to do so, but it's definitely a tall task for a young coach who has never had to deal with such a young roster. Knowing (at least from the way it appears on the outside) how brutally hard he is on younger players, I hope that they buy into what he's selling and put in the work in the gym. I like Buzz a lot and think that with his great recruiting ability, the sky's the limit for this program, but for me it's going to be very important/indicative to see how this groups develops over the rest of this season. I'm hoping experience is the answer.

[nyg]

Keep in mind that today we started 2 freshmen and a red shirt soph who due to injury has only played in a handful of games.  I feel the PG and 5 are the two most important positions on a college BB team and we have almost no experience at either.  Our other PG has no experience either.  So it really shouldn't suprise people that we struggle running a smooth offense or team rebounding.   I don't think Wis is all that good (but Bo will probably get them finishing in the top 4 in the big ten anyway).  We are rebuilding pure and simple.  I don't think that's an over-reaction.  We may gell and make the Dance but if we don't make a lot of progress from where we are not we will not.

Agree no experience, but why does Buzz even start these guys.  Is there any other program that continues to start PG and Centers and then pull each after a few minutes of play.

The freshman point guard who started played two minutes in first half and sat the rest.  Same thing in second half.  He tweaked ankle, but was on verge on getting yanked after a stupid turnover.

The redshirt sophomore center who started played three minutes in first half and sat the rest.  Same thing in second half (5 minutes).  The foot injury excuse is starting to get old, its not like he blew his ACL out.

[MUCam]

It's name is Perspective.  Do you not have any input into the thread topic?  Perhaps not as some of your posts suggest you are a classic knee jerker, sky is falling, doomsday, soothsayer.

Both classic and comical at the same time.

[NersEllenson]

Both classic and comical at the same time.

We'll see how it shakes out this year..but not ready to throw in the towel and claim NIT and other ludicrous things just yet.

Thanks again for your awesome contributions to this thread.

[avid1010]

What was up with that?  Start a guy then play him 6 minutes?  Maybe it was sending some "practice" message / toughest guy thing.  Hate to see that 10 games into the season.

I think the head-games with who practices the hardest have to stop at this point, considering it cost MU points with Reggie turning the ball over.  I'm sure there's been weeks when Frozena has practiced hard...

[mileskishnish72]

Playing the way they are playing now, there won't be any winning BE record, nor anything much going on in March. It's nice to say we've got athletic, top 100 guys but there are glaring deficiencies at both ends of the court and after 2 months of work things are certainly not coming together.

[GGGG]

I think the head-games with who practices the hardest have to stop at this point,

Do you know what's going on with practice?

[wildbillsb]

Do you know what's going on with practice?

From what I can see, not very much is going on at practice.  Another question:  Does the team know what's going on at practice?

[Jam Chowder]

From what I can see, not very much is going on at practice.  Another question:  Does the team know what's going on at practice?

This.

[rico49]

From what I remember, Summer chatter was sharply shocked that MU did not get ranked in the top 40.  Once again, college bb teams without defined leadership need to be allowed to go through a "process" of becoming a team.  This team is in process of defining itself with some players not playing well as expected.  All of us are not on the team and ARE NOT at practice, we can only judge what we see.  I was at the game yesterday as usual and saw many casual MU fans turn-on the players and the coach, including a comment that this coach can't recruit and will be gone next year.  I was shocked that many so-called fans "fell-off" the fan wagon so fast without much of the meat of the season to play.  I have attending games for over 45 years, and I see fans who want a "new class" of players perform like seasoned veterans.  That rarely happens unless you have players of high pedigree (like Duke, UNC, Ky,...)
Let's let this team develop a little more before  we jump to way too many conclusions.   

[NersEllenson]

I think the head-games with who practices the hardest have to stop at this point, considering it cost MU points with Reggie turning the ball over.  I'm sure there's been weeks when Frozena has practiced hard...

Pretty sure it isn't a case of head games here - Reggie played VERY well against TX AM CC...okay..pile on with jokes now that it was TX AM CC...but..he played very well in that game..and it seemed the team played its best ball of the season with the lineup of Reggie, Vander, Jimmy, Jae and Otule..in that game. 

Junior is maybe slightly better at this time at distributing the ball..but..basing things on defense...Reggie is the better defender.  Reggie had a rough day yesterday...but let's cut the kid some slack..10th college game..first in front of 19,000 screaming fans.

[ChicosBailBonds]

From what I remember, Summer chatter was sharply shocked (by some members here) that MU did not get ranked in the top 40.  Once again, college bb teams without defined leadership need to be allowed to go through a "process" of becoming a team. 

Added context

[avid1010]

Do you know what's going on with practice?

I haven't gone to any this year, but if you listen to Buzz give interviews you'll hear him say that Reggie is starting because he works harder than the other pg's in practice.  I thought that was obvious to everyone who follows MU bball.

[Boone]

Don't think it's ludicrous at all to suggest we're heading to the NIT. Unless we steal a road win vs. Vandy, we'll have no signature non-conference wins. There's no evidence at all to suggest we're capable of making up for squandering those missed opportunities by winning 12-13 conference games.

[rico49]

Added context to my post by Chicos is well placed! 

My current read is that many of you need to keep sharp objects out of reach...THE PRE-BIG EAST SEASON HAS NOT BEEN COMPLETED YET.  I firmly believe that this team will make progress each week of the season, with the help of highly motivated former assistant coach, Buzz Williams, who is also highly self-critical and continues to grow.  Progress may not always mean W's, but losing is a great motivator and helps a team develop mental toughness and cohesiveness (see Buzz's Boot Camp).

Disgruntled fans, give this team some time.

[RawdogDX]

Ners, how bad does this season have to go for you to actually say something negative about this team? 
Will you be talking about how everyone should calm down if we are a game under 500 half way through big east play?
2 games? 3?

If we start out 0-4 will you finally agree that people who are worried have some ground to stand on?

---------------------
Side note.  What is our best win?  I really don't know.

[NersEllenson]

Ners, how bad does this season have to go for you to actually say something negative about this team? 
Will you be talking about how everyone should calm down if we are a game under 500 half way through big east play?
2 games? 3?

If we start out 0-4 will you finally agree that people who are worried have some ground to stand on?

---------------------
Side note.  What is our best win?  I really don't know.

Here's the deal..at least half of this board predicted a loss to UW...so why should we be going ape sh$t because we lost?  No one in their right mind thought we'd beat Duke.  Pomeroy had UW beating us by 1 yesterday.  UW is a very solid team. 

To me we have 1 bad loss and that is to Gonzaga.  I'm not yet ready to throw this team under the bus and start questioning if Crowder is any good, if Buzz can coach, if our recruiting strategy is flwed, if we ahve too many players of similar skill set, if DJO has lost his confidence, if we don't have any heart, if we are not tough, etc....

MU will have plenty of opportunities for signature wins in the Big East conference.  If they can go 10-8..they'll get in the NCAA due to just how well the Big East has done overall in non-conference play.  Pitt losing to TN is only bad loss.  We can still beat Vandy...lots of ball to be played.

[romey]

Here's the deal..at least half of this board predicted a loss to UW...so why should we be going ape sh$t because we lost?  No one in their right mind thought we'd beat Duke.  Pomeroy had UW beating us by 1 yesterday.  UW is a very solid team. 

To me we have 1 bad loss and that is to Gonzaga.  I'm not yet ready to throw this team under the bus and start questioning if Crowder is any good, if Buzz can coach, if our recruiting strategy is flwed, if we ahve too many players of similar skill set, if DJO has lost his confidence, if we don't have any heart, if we are not tough, etc....

MU will have plenty of opportunities for signature wins in the Big East conference.  If they can go 10-8..they'll get in the NCAA due to just how well the Big East has done overall in non-conference play.  Pitt losing to TN is only bad loss.  We can still beat Vandy...lots of ball to be played.

Not to start this diatribe up all over again, but when it was stated that we were NOT going to beat Wisconsin if we played like we did against UWM, the poster was attacked by you.  You called him out to make a prediction - right then!  Not after he had a chance to observe how we bounced back against the next cupcake, but right then.

I think right now a lot of people feel that we do not have a shot against Vandy on the road and that is a feeling based on what we have seen so far.  I have seen one game vs. a non-cupcake that we played well in (Dook).  So we have about two weeks to make some major upgrades in our level of play, or I fear we will not come out of Nashville with a favorable result.

And if we don't win that one, the committee is not going to be impressed with W's over Depaul, Seton hall, South Florida, Providence etc.  And as for marquee wins vs. the "top" Big East teams, I don't know how we can do that without major improvement.

We CAN improve, and I hope that we will, but we don't seem to have progressed in recent weeks.

[NersEllenson]

Not to start this diatribe up all over again, but when it was stated that we were NOT going to beat Wisconsin if we played like we did against UWM, the poster was attacked by you.  You called him out to make a prediction - right then!  Not after he had a chance to observe how we bounced back against the next cupcake, but right then.

Not sure I understand your point..but okay...I did ask Chicos to go on record at that moment with his prediction..as he was lamenting how bad we were after the UWM game...

To your other points..yes..Vandy will be a tough one to win on the road..but think it is possible.  Also think we can compete with most of the top of the Big East..and will snatch a win or two from a Villanova, Gtown, or Pitt or Cuse..

My personal opinion is that the team has improved a some in the last 2 weeks. If DJO can simply be 80% of what he was last year...it is conceivable MU is undefeated at this point...Yes there are some things that need improvement and fixing..such as rebounding..

[GGGG]

I haven't gone to any this year, but if you listen to Buzz give interviews you'll hear him say that Reggie is starting because he works harder than the other pg's in practice.  I thought that was obvious to everyone who follows MU bball.

Agreed.  I am specifically commenting on your use of the phrase "head games."  You don't know if he is playing head games or not.

[4everwarriors]

Not sure I understand your point..but okay...I did ask Chicos to go on record at that moment with his prediction..as he was lamenting how bad we were after the UWM game...

To your other points..yes..Vandy will be a tough one to win on the road..but think it is possible.  Also think we can compete with most of the top of the Big East..and will snatch a win or two from a Villanova, Gtown, or Pitt or Cuse..

My personal opinion is that the team has improved a some in the last 2 weeks. If DJO can simply be 80% of what he was last year...it is conceivable MU is undefeated at this point...Yes there are some things that need improvement and fixing..such as rebounding..

Ners Man, I really like your enthusiasm. Definitely a glass half-full type of guy. Any thoughts on the economy or unemployment?