Over-REACTION and lack of perspective..

[NersEllenson]

The level of over-reaction is amazing.  Some here have their agendas...none more transparent than Nomorebuycks...(comical)...

Here's the deal:  It was a hard fought game.  Wisconsin was Wisconsin.  Marquette was Marquette.  Both are good teams, and both are hard to play against.  Each team posed the other a serious challenge.

The rebounding SEEMED A LOT worse than it was:  We were outrebounded 32-26..and on the offensive glass 15-9 (there is the disparity).  We got to the line 22 times to Wisconsin's 14 (and that includes their 6 intentional trips we sent them there.)  Statistically the game just about even other than these two areas.

We have some here saying the team has NO heart.  NIT bound.  Buzz can't coach.  UW isn't even that good this year..but we still lost to them.  Crowder is overrated or not that good.  And on and on and on..

The loss sucks..but it is almost embarassing to be an MU fan and think that some fellow alums (I assume most here are), cannot see the big picture..and the forest through the trees.  This team will be okay..as it can get to the free throw line a ton - and probably isn't going to get any worse of performance from DJO than the team has gotten thus far this season.  He'll get it worked out and the team will have a different dimension.

[MUCam]

The level of over-reaction is amazing.  Some here have their agendas...none more transparent than Nomorebuycks...(comical)...

Here's the deal:  It was a hard fought game.  Wisconsin was Wisconsin.  Marquette was Marquette.  Both are good teams, and both are hard to play against.  Each team posed the other a serious challenge.

The rebounding SEEMED A LOT worse than it was:  We were outrebounded 32-26..and on the offensive glass 15-9 (there is the disparity).  We got to the line 22 times to Wisconsin's 14 (and that includes their 6 intentional trips we sent them there.)  Statistically the game just about even other than these two areas.

We have some here saying the team has NO heart.  NIT bound.  Buzz can't coach.  UW isn't even that good this year..but we still lost to them.  Crowder is overrated or not that good.  And on and on and on..

The loss sucks..but it is almost embarassing to be an MU fan and think that some fellow alums (I assume most here are), cannot see the big picture..and the forest through the trees.  This team will be okay..as it can get to the free throw line a ton - and probably isn't going to get any worse of performance from DJO than the team has gotten thus far this season.  He'll get it worked out and the team will have a different dimension.

What is your horse's name? You know, the high one you ride around on. What's its name, again?

[muhoops1]

Dude,

You forgot to mention that MU didn't score a basket during the first 8 min of 2nd half.  The rebounding disparity was worse than the stats show...we couldn't get a board when it counted and when we did we threw up an abysmal shot on O.

Bottom line this MU is going now where fast.  At least we only have one year left with Crowder and they won't ruin our spring break this year.

[nyg]

The level of over-reaction is amazing.  Some here have their agendas...none more transparent than Nomorebuycks...(comical)...

Here's the deal:  It was a hard fought game.  Wisconsin was Wisconsin.  Marquette was Marquette.  Both are good teams, and both are hard to play against.  Each team posed the other a serious challenge.

The rebounding SEEMED A LOT worse than it was:  We were outrebounded 32-26..and on the offensive glass 15-9 (there is the disparity).  We got to the line 22 times to Wisconsin's 14 (and that includes their 6 intentional trips we sent them there.)  Statistically the game just about even other than these two areas.

We have some here saying the team has NO heart.  NIT bound.  Buzz can't coach.  UW isn't even that good this year..but we still lost to them.  Crowder is overrated or not that good.  And on and on and on..

The loss sucks..but it is almost embarassing to be an MU fan and think that some fellow alums (I assume most here are), cannot see the big picture..and the forest through the trees.  This team will be okay..as it can get to the free throw line a ton - and probably isn't going to get any worse of performance from DJO than the team has gotten thus far this season.  He'll get it worked out and the team will have a different dimension.

You are right about Wisconsin, but they were/are the better team.

One of the reasons they will win will be because of their ability to get to free throw line?  Thats a good thing if they would make the free throws.  Junior missed two early and Butler missed the front end of two one and ones and that was only this game.  

Any worse from DJO??  He had had one exceptional game, the others have been brutal.  He is like shooting 23%.  He is MU's SHOOTING GUARD.

Different dimension 10 games in and the Big Picture?  No clue as to what that is.

After setting game plans for Centenary and Mississippi Valley State, I hope Buzz has a new dimension and big picture for Vanderbilt.  

[NersEllenson]

What is your horse's name? You know, the high one you ride around on. What's its name, again?

It's name is Perspective.  Do you not have any input into the thread topic?  Perhaps not as some of your posts suggest you are a classic knee jerker, sky is falling, doomsday, soothsayer.

[Boone]

No, the rebounding didn't "seem" worse than the stats showed, it was really bad -- and it cost us big time. But aside from having no signature non-conference wins, no identity, rebounding and poor shooting, we're just fine.  

[chren21]

Well I was disappointed by the obvious lack of effort and heart in this game.  If that means I can't see the forest through the trees then I guess I am blind. All the other bad points being stated on threads are just icing on the cake. I respect your ability to remain up beat, I guess I need to see something on the court that would lead me in that direction, and I really have not.

[4everwarriors]

This is a middle of the road team, no more, no less.

[NersEllenson]

You are right about Wisconsin, but they were/are the better team.

One of the reasons they will win will be because of their ability to get to free throw line?  Thats a good thing if they would make the free throws.  Junior missed two early and Butler missed the front end of two one and ones and that was only this game.   Any worse from DJO??  He had had one exceptional game, the others have been brutal.  He is like shooting 23%.  He is MU's SHOOTING GUARD.

Different dimension 10 games in and the Big Picture?  No clue as to what that is.

After setting game plans for Centenary and Mississippi Valley State, I hope Buzz has a new dimension and big picture for Vanderbilt.  

We shot 73% from the free throw line..that is very good in college basketball...68% is the average as found on Ken Pomeroy.com.  73% puts you about 10th out of 300+ D-1 teams.  Can't make every free throw..and sure..it was frustrating seeing Jimmy miss the front ends of those 1-1's.

My point about DJO was that it CANNOT get any worse than its been from him..so there should only be upside as the season moves on..

[NersEllenson]

Well I was disappointed by the obvious lack of effort and heart in this game.  If that means I can't see the forest through the trees then I guess I am blind. All the other bad points being stated on threads are just icing on the cake. I respect your ability to remain up beat, I guess I need to see something on the court that would lead me in that direction, and I really have not.

Guess it depends on how you look at it - we got to the line 22 times...you don't get to the line without being aggressive, playing with heart, etc.  Wisconsin has two very mobile, athletic and long 6'10" guys playing in Nankivil and Leuer.  Bergren is 6'8".  Otule was TERRIBLE today..since he couldn't rebound..that left our 6'7" and under guys.  As I watched the game...it seemed to me we were playing very hard..and going after rebounds..but some didn't bounce our way..and our defensive rotations got us out of solid box-out positioning..just don't think it is time yet to mail it in on this team yet due to losing to Duke by 5..UW...and Gonzaga..granted..Gonzaga hasn't been very good thus far..

[groove]

After setting game plans for Centenary and Mississippi Valley State, I hope Buzz has a new dimension and big picture for Vanderbilt.  

No, he is just going to stick with the plan of playing his toughest players whether they are actually his best players or not. Reggie Smith must be one tough MF. Sort of like rewarding a C student with a higher grade because he tried harder and penalizing the A student who just breezed to the A. Maybe Buzz should start recruiting some Hell's Angels.

[muhoosier260]

welcome to the message boards

[ATL MU Warrior]

Guess it depends on how you look at it - we got to the line 22 times...you don't get to the line without being aggressive, playing with heart, etc.  Wisconsin has two very mobile, athletic and long 6'10" guys playing in Nankivil and Leuer.  Bergren is 6'8".  Otule was TERRIBLE today..since he couldn't rebound..that left our 6'7" and under guys.  As I watched the game...it seemed to me we were playing very hard..and going after rebounds..but some didn't bounce our way..and our defensive rotations got us out of solid box-out positioning..just don't think it is time yet to mail it in on this team yet due to losing to Duke by 5..UW...and Gonzaga..granted..Gonzaga hasn't been very good thus far..

I guess I must have blinked because I didn't see just what he did that was so terrible since he played all of 8 minutes - - against a big front line where we could have used his D or at the very least his fouls.  Must have been a doozy, whatever it was.  

[TillysDad]

Sometimes the ball bounces your way sometime it doesn't.  Do we have great continuity on offense...no.  did we play well defensively for the most part...Many loose balls/rebounds we just didn't come up with, hell, one went off carrottop's head and went in.  You know it isn't your day when stuff like that is happening.   It is one game, and we don't really have a Bad loss yet.  Still a lot of newcomers getting used to D-1 and we are only 9 games in.

[brewcity77]

Perspective is this: you NEED quality non-conference wins to earn a decent NCAA seed come March. That's not an over-reaction, that's a fact.

Today was our best shot at getting one. Winning at Vandy is an incredibly tall order, one of the toughest tasks in all of college basketball, and frankly one I don't expect us to accomplish. A 9-4 non-conference record, quite simply, would be something most everyone on this site would have called a disaster a month ago before the regular season started, and is what we are all but certainly facing after today's loss.

Chico's has said it before and regardless what you think of him, he's right: 10-8 in the Big East with no good non-conference wins is a recipe for missing the tournament. Honestly, today Vanderbilt just became an absolute, no questions asked, MUST win game. If we lose that game, we probably need to go 12-6 in the Big East at worst to have a hope of even making the field of 68. And considering we currently have 5 road games against ranked teams in our conference schedule, that leaves very little margin for error.

Today was a disaster of epic proportions. I hate to say it, and usually I'm one of the most optimistic guys on this board, but there's no way around it. We pissed away a game we needed for March today, and there's really no way to rationalize that.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ners

The team has a lot of talent, we've heard time and again how there are more top 100 guys on this team then ever before (which isn't true, but people say it anyway).

But there seems to be a lack of workers, glue guys, specialists in one area or another.

Teams need a few guys that get their role and do it well....often dirty work kind of stuff.  Teams need a few guys that can shoot the ball from deep to open up an offense.

Look, by no means is this season lost...they will get better.  Still a ton of immaturity, lack of leadership, and inexperience out there.  I have no doubt they will get better.  My concern is the lack of leadership and the lack of skill in certain areas that we are going to need.  That doesn't happen overnight.

[Jay Bee]

But there seems to be a lack of workers...

Teams need a few guys that get their role and do it well....often dirty work kind of stuff. 

Ahhh, so there is a lack of effort, J? 

[NersEllenson]

I guess I must have blinked because I didn't see just what he did that was so terrible since he played all of 8 minutes - - against a big front line where we could have used his D or at the very least his fouls.  Must have been a doozy, whatever it was.  

In the minutes Chris was in the game..he was painfully out of position defensively..and also from a rebounding perspective.  There were 2 instances when I yelled at my TV.. "Otule..please..DO SOMETHING."  Chris probably should have gotten more than 8 minutes..but honestly..I believe Buzz saw what I saw..and that was complete ineffectiveness..though Chris did grab that one offensive rebound....he took a terribly ill-advised shot off that rebound...

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ahhh, so there is a lack of effort, J? 

No, honestly I wouldn't say that.  Good question, though.  I would say there is a lack of smarts at times (please don't take that as some kind of attack on their intelligence, that's not what I mean).  Rebounding is about desire, positioning, and cunning.  Some of the best rebounders in the game have stated that many of their rebounds come simply by knowing the percentages of where that ball is going to go even before it hits the rim...the percentages dictate that a shot taken from a certain spot on the floor will usually go X (as an example).

No, I think the effort is there (usually...though some of the lack of box outs dispute that), it's just not applied in a smart way all the time.  Against good teams, every advantage is needed. 

[79Warrior]

In the minutes Chris was in the game..he was painfully out of position defensively..and also from a rebounding perspective.  There were 2 instances when I yelled at my TV.. "Otule..please..DO SOMETHING."  Chris probably should have gotten more than 8 minutes..but honestly..I believe Buzz saw what I saw..and that was complete ineffectiveness..though Chris did grab that one offensive rebound....he took a terribly ill-advised shot off that rebound...

I have said it multiple, otule is not a legit BE center, period.

[ATL MU Warrior]

In the minutes Chris was in the game..he was painfully out of position defensively..and also from a rebounding perspective.  There were 2 instances when I yelled at my TV.. "Otule..please..DO SOMETHING."  Chris probably should have gotten more than 8 minutes..but honestly..I believe Buzz saw what I saw..and that was complete ineffectiveness..though Chris did grab that one offensive rebound....he took a terribly ill-advised shot off that rebound...

When we're getting eaten alive on the boards in the 2nd half, I'd take my chances with Chris over Jae and Davante.  Oh, hell, maybe I wouldn't.  Not like we have a lot of good options....

[NersEllenson]

Ners

The team has a lot of talent, we've heard time and again how there are more top 100 guys on this team then ever before (which isn't true, but people say it anyway).

But there seems to be a lack of workers, glue guys, specialists in one area or another.

Teams need a few guys that get their role and do it well....often dirty work kind of stuff.  Teams need a few guys that can shoot the ball from deep to open up an offense.

Look, by no means is this season lost...they will get better.  Still a ton of immaturity, lack of leadership, and inexperience out there.  I have no doubt they will get better.  My concern is the lack of leadership and the lack of skill in certain areas that we are going to need.  That doesn't happen overnight.

I don't disagree with your analysis here in general - what's killing this MU team right now is that DJO is in a terrible slump..1-9 from the field today..and take away the UWM game..and he's shooting about 28% for the year, and about 15% from the 3 point line.  If DJO just makes 40% of his shots today..we are right there in this game.  Crowder can shoot it okay from the perimeter...but no..we don't have a guy like Novak or Scotty C to help keep defenses a little bit more honest/challenged/stretched.

[NersEllenson]

When we're getting eaten alive on the boards in the 2nd half, I'd take my chances with Chris over Jae and Davante.  Oh, hell, maybe I wouldn't.  Not like we have a lot of good options....

Good point...I think part of the dilemma is that Gardner does give this team something..the generally are + when he's on the floor....but you probably won't ever see Gardner and Otule on the floor together..so kind of a pick your poison choice for Buzz.  At least DJO did step it up today in his rebounding.  We now need Vander Blue to add that to his game..cause right now..he isn't getting many boards..and the guards are going to HAVE to get boards on this team.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

This is a middle of the road team, no more, no less.

I have to say, I'm not normally a pessimist, but I don't know if we're very good. Middle of the road sounds good to me right now. This is the first thread I've read tonight and I see somebody mentioned something about Buycks. I hope people aren't on him because of the last possession because I thought he was one of the only guys that came to play today. Everybody else, other than Butler, was in a fog especially in the first half. We are in desperate need of leadership.  We also got outcoached in a huge way. I love Buzz, but that was a clinic. Wisco turned it into a half court game and, as a result, we didn't stand a chance.

Great crowd, by the way. For all the crap I've heard about Wisconsin fans, I didn't see or talk to a single one who wasn't normal.

[mu_hilltopper]

What is your horse's name? You know, the high one you ride around on. What's its name, again?

+1

Ners wins the "first guy to correct the guys who say the sky isn't falling" award.

We really should have a pool for that after each loss.  

--

Forget how we've played versus all the cupcakes.  We are 0-3 against quality/NCAA bound competition this year.  While we only lost by 3-6 points each game, none of them were ever in much doubt.  

Kenpom predicts a loss at Vandy, and I'd be a homer if I said that was wrong, so we walk away from the pre-season with zero quality wins.    Need some wins against the top half of the BE to get to the NCAAs now, and with the way we've played quality teams .. tall order.