[Rosiak's Blog] Buzz on signees, recruiting

[StillAWarrior]

Can't some of your guys take the bitch fighting to PMs? (see what I did there?)

Seriously. We're getting into mirco-analysis of every post.

Clarify your stance and agree to disagree, boys.

Some of you guys are just hunting each other down looking for a reason to fight, and for no good reason.

Agreed.  That was my point in the other thread.  And I apologize for jumping into the fray which certainly didn't make things any better.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Interesting Buzz brought up DJ Newbill when Rosiak didn't specifically ask about him..but more the situation:

Do you like having that extra scholarship going into the spring, considering how much player turnover there is at that time of year: "Back to that, I know I probably lost some people that may have thought I was a good guy. I didn't do anything wrong on DJ, even though I couldn't say anything about that. The timing made it look like I did something wrong, but I didn't do anything wrong."

Interesting..

What would have been more interesting if you actually quoted the ENTIRE thing.  I can only imagine if StillAWarrior, Marquette84, myself, Hilltopper, or any number of others had done what you did....you and the posse would have gone crazy.


It changes more than a bit when you put the ENTIRE quote...but I'm sure you did that on accident.  


"Back to that, I know I probably lost some people that may have thought I was a good guy. I didn't do anything wrong on DJ, even though I couldn't say anything about that. The timing made it look like I did something wrong, but I didn't do anything wrong. But I think because of the turnover rate in coaches, players, in high schools, AAU...it's a cyclical machine, and that machine runs 365 days a year. And I don't think you can ever pass on a for-sure high-major guy, if he's the character that you want to be around. But at the same time, you never want to settle and take a mid-major-plus guy, and that scholarship holds you, prevents you from taking a high-major guy four months later. I think as you build your roster, if you can take a transfer, a redshirt guy, if you can sign a guy in the late spring because he signed in November with a coach that left...you always want to at least be available. I think we've kind of done that. We didn't do it in Class No. 1 because we weren't in that position relative to our roster to be able to do that. We were just signing the best players that we could sign. But now there's a little bit more of a tunnel vision on what we're trying to do and how we're trying to do it, and to always have a scholarship, I think, is good. And as of today, we still have a scholarship."

[tower912]

So, at worst, a mistake that he will learn from.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Interesting that you're doing cartwheels over your favorite NFL team getting destroyed so that a coach you disapproved of would get crapcanned. Knowing that you'll actively root against your own team because you don't like the coach troubles me on soooo many levels.

It's professional sports, a huge difference.  The players are paid.  If the team isn't going to try, I'm not going to cheer for them.  Mike Jenkins and two other players this week admitted to giving up on plays and not trying.

And yes, I desire better for my teams than a 3rd rate castoff coach and have said that since the day he was hired.  I'm glad he's gone.  It couldn't get any worse.

[ChicosBailBonds]

BTW, we're still waiting for your rebuttal on the Vander-Maymon thread (aka the Derrick Wilson thread). I assume you're still sticking with your version of the story since you brought it up again on this thread...even after being pantsed by IWB on the other thread.

I responded already Mustache...the logic doesn't jive.  Why does it not surprise me that you would like a male pantsing another male?  I'll bet you go the little blue pill out for that.

[ChicosBailBonds]

How exactly are you NOT accepting only one version of the story? Do you ever read your own posts? You really are a hypocrite.

If you accept a position that doesn't come from 12th street on the MU campus you are railed here as anti-Buzz and anti-MU.  I think Buzz's complete statement (you know the one that Ners conveniently cut off the critical parts) shows exactly what he did and backs up what many have said.  He went for a better player and threw the kid to the curb.  End of story.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So, at worst, a mistake that he will learn from.   

If so, that would make me happy, but let's not suggest this is "at worst".  Lives are affected by this stuff....the kid couldn't go to a Big East school any longer after signing.  He had an offer from one and could have gone elsewhere.  MU and Buzz have to be smarter about this stuff.

[tower912]

Alternate scenario:    After the contact with Brad Forster, an MU alum,Newbill would have been ineligible at MU (Buzz can't actually talk about it).    This comes to light and Buzz less than artfully communicates that Newbill can't come (hence the lack of application being filled out).   Newbill, being a kid, doesn't communicate that with phillycoach, just saying that he had been dumped.   At the same time, Jamil decides(late) to transfer into the scholarship slot that had been available (but not publicly known) for a few weeks.    Newbill ends up playing D1 basketball.        Just a thought.   But it also explains the mysterious post from Marquette basketball office this summer asking everyone to be careful about contact with recruits.   But reading the end of the quote, it sure looks like Buzz will, in the future, keep a slot open for a late transfer/decommit, learning from an awkward situation.     Learning something.     Instead of repeating the same thing over and over and over and over and over.

[NersEllenson]

If so, that would make me happy, but let's not suggest this is "at worst".  Lives are affected by this stuff....the kid couldn't go to a Big East school any longer after signing.  He had an offer from one and could have gone elsewhere.  MU and Buzz have to be smarter about this stuff.

You are ridiculous...and yes..I could have included the entire statement..it doesn't change anything.  He wasn't even asked about DJ in the original question..but took the question to address the issue.  Furthermore..what he went on to say doesn't mean he "cut" DJ to pick up Wilson (or a better player).

Give it up already.  It is amazing that you choose to take DJ Newbill and his camp 100% at their word and Buzz and MU as being the liars.  So Newbill said he had an offer from WVU...EVER heard of a kid saying he has offers form schools and in actuality..they really don't.  Some kids take a school as being interested..as having an offer.  But again..you are the insider to all things college basketball due to your post at DirecTV..so you know the scoop..just like you did on the Vander Blue/Maymon recruitments.

Keep digging..deeper and deeper and deeper..

[GGGG]

Chicos neither said, nor did he imply, that Buzz lied.

[Earl Tatum]

For what it's worth=== Liam McMorrow had 4 pts and 9 boards (5 offense) for Tennessee Tech as they where beaten by North Carolina State. Interested on how he will perform next game. But, WE ARE MARQUETTE!!!!

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

Thanks for the Liam update.  He was the one guy I was eager to see play for MU that regretfully wasn't able to.

[nyg]

Newbill started for Southern Miss tonight and scored nine points in their win against South Florida.

[avid1010]

Yes, because we should always take the word of the coaches, politicians, leaders of the world and forget the little guy, forget what the players say.

Are you serious?  I mean really, are you being serious?  Should we take the word of Jim Calhoun...he's a coach, he says he didn't cheat and did nothing wrong?  Or is that an exception because he isn't OUR coach?

I find it ironic how you question politicians in this sentence while sounding just like one with your "don't forget the little guy" and trying to link Buzz to Calhoun.  Do you have a point other than every profession has some members that are liars?...that doesn't need to be stated.  You often criticize the fans on this site for being harder on TC than previous coaches, yet I'm not sure you're not harder on Buzz than you were on TC.

[MerrittsMustache]

I responded already Mustache...the logic doesn't jive.  Why does it not surprise me that you would like a male pantsing another male?  I'll bet you go the little blue pill out for that.

The logic most definitely does jive. Your weak, back-pedaling attempt to refute it was embarassing, even for you.

At least you're being mature about it and questioning my sexuality. Cura personalis, right?

[ChicosBailBonds]

You are ridiculous...and yes..I could have included the entire statement..it doesn't change anything.  

It changes everything.  And you would have gone ballistic if some other posters had done that to cherry pick a quote.  What you left out changes A LOT....it's his entire justification and begs the question from day one that so many people were asking here...WTF were you doing signing the kid in the first place?

Please show me where I said Buzz lied...this should be good....but you certainly are calling a DJ a liar saying he didn't have an offer.  I love it when fans hear call players liars...that's always good for recruiting.   

[Pakuni]

It changes everything.  And you would have gone ballistic if some other posters had done that to cherry pick a quote.  What you left out changes A LOT....it's his entire justification and begs the question from day one that so many people were asking here...WTF were you doing signing the kid in the first place?

Please show me where I said Buzz lied...this should be good....but you certainly are calling a DJ a liar saying he didn't have an offer.  I love it when fans hear call players liars...that's always good for recruiting.  

Ners can fight his own battle son this silly debate, but I need to point out your first reply in this thread:

"Yes, because we should always take the word of the coaches, politicians, leaders of the world and forget the little guy, forget what the players say.
Are you serious?  I mean really, are you being serious?  Should we take the word of Jim Calhoun...he's a coach, he says he didn't cheat and did nothing wrong?  Or is that an exception because he isn't OUR coach?"

So, in response to this issue, you strongly imply that the word of coaches is not to be believed and mock those who would think otherwise.

How exactly is that not to be taken as a statement of your belief that Buzz is lying?
Is this not the logical deduction here:

1. Buzz says A.
2. Chicos says in response that coaches words are not to be believed.
3. Buzz is a coach.
4. Chicos believes Buzz's words are not to be believed.

If you believe Buzz is lying here - and clearly you do, based on your dozens of posts on Newbill - at least man up and admit it. Have some courage in your convictions.

[Marquette84]

Alternate scenario:    After the contact with Brad Forster, an MU alum,Newbill would have been ineligible at MU

Let's assume you're right.  Someone on MU's staff launched an investigation into the situation with Newbil and Forster.  The investigation showed that the incident constituted an NCAA rules violation that rendered Newbill ineligible to play for Marquette. MU's self-imposed punishment was to strip Newbill of his scholarship.

Am I right so far?

Yet, what you don't say if this violation occurred (and MU took remedial action to self-punish), they would also have had to self-report the violation to the NCAA.  

Unless I missed it, we didn't do that.  Oops.  That's another violation since according to NCAA bylaws, schools are required to report any violations they find in house.

Furthermore, I think the NCAA might look a bit askance at our self-imposed "punishment" which had the effect of conveniently freeing a scholarship at the exact time it was needed to sign a better player.  They might view our motives behind our self-imposed punishment as less-than-sincere.

(Buzz can't actually talk about it).  

Are you suggesting that it would be against NCAA rules for Buzz or MU to say anything about Newbill?  If so, then you are implying that we have committed another violation, since it was someone at MU that said that Newbill didn't complete his application.  

Frankly, I think you're incorrect on this point.  Newbill signed an LOI--Buzz can talk all he wants.  He is only restricted from commenting on a player before he signs an LOI.

 This comes to light and Buzz less than artfully communicates that Newbill can't come (hence the lack of application being filled out).   Newbill, being a kid, doesn't communicate that with phillycoach, just saying that he had been dumped.

Except we know that according to NCAA rules, the application wasn't even due until the first day of classes.  Plus, given that you said we already knew that Newbill couldn't play for us because of the earlier Forster violation--the application would be completely irrelevant.

I don't think you've thought through the implications of what you've just alleged.  In your haste to create a scenario that absolves Buzz of looking like a bad guy for merely running off a player in order to sign a better one, you accuse an MU of two (possibly three) rules violations: lack of institutional control by failing to control a booster, failing to self-report an identified violation, and the staff making an improper public statement regarding Newbill.

I think the truth is far less damaging to MU, but less flattering to Buzz.  I think Buzz merely ran off Newbill in order to land a better player by coercing him to request a release from the LOI.  Only Newbill can initiate such a request--and that's exactly what he did.  

[Marquette84]

Ners can fight his own battle son this silly debate, but I need to point out your first reply in this thread:

"Yes, because we should always take the word of the coaches, politicians, leaders of the world and forget the little guy, forget what the players say.
Are you serious?  I mean really, are you being serious?  Should we take the word of Jim Calhoun...he's a coach, he says he didn't cheat and did nothing wrong?  Or is that an exception because he isn't OUR coach?"

So, in response to this issue, you strongly imply that the word of coaches is not to be believed and mock those who would think otherwise.

How exactly is that not to be taken as a statement of your belief that Buzz is lying?
Is this not the logical deduction here:

1. Buzz says A.
2. Chicos says in response that coaches words are not to be believed.
3. Buzz is a coach.
4. Chicos believes Buzz's words are not to be believed.

If you believe Buzz is lying here - and clearly you do, based on your dozens of posts on Newbill - at least man up and admit it. Have some courage in your convictions.

This is not as black and white as you make it out to be.

There are ways one can interpret the statement where both sides can be correct:

1.  When Buzz says "I did nothing wrong", he may be referring in the narrowest sense with respect to NCAA rules. He somehow convinced  Newbill to request a release from his NLI.  Ergo no rules violation occurred.  He's not debating that he screwed Newbill.  Is Buzz lying?  No, not under the narrowest NCAA rules definition of right vs. wrong.  Yes, if you believe that its wrong not to take every possible action to honor the promise to Newbill. 

2.  Buzz may be commenting in the first person, while some interpret it as representing the program as a whole. "I did nothing wrong" is not a lie--because it was Monarch or Collins or Benford that actually took care of the dirty work.  Is Buzz lying--well, no, because it was his staff, not him.

3.  There is a certain degree of misalignment between Buzz's words and actions.  He says he did nothing wrong with Newbill, but he's changing his policy and holding a scholarship this year.  If there's nothing wrong with what happened last year with Newbill, why not sign the best available player now (before he signs with another school)?  If a better player comes along, why not just  do the same thing you did with Newbill? 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ners can fight his own battle son this silly debate, but I need to point out your first reply in this thread:

"Yes, because we should always take the word of the coaches, politicians, leaders of the world and forget the little guy, forget what the players say.
Are you serious?  I mean really, are you being serious?  Should we take the word of Jim Calhoun...he's a coach, he says he didn't cheat and did nothing wrong?  Or is that an exception because he isn't OUR coach?"

So, in response to this issue, you strongly imply that the word of coaches is not to be believed and mock those who would think otherwise.

How exactly is that not to be taken as a statement of your belief that Buzz is lying?
Is this not the logical deduction here:

1. Buzz says A.
2. Chicos says in response that coaches words are not to be believed.
3. Buzz is a coach.
4. Chicos believes Buzz's words are not to be believed.

If you believe Buzz is lying here - and clearly you do, based on your dozens of posts on Newbill - at least man up and admit it. Have some courage in your convictions.

Good Lord.  I do not believe he is lying.  I believe that HE believes he did nothing wrong and was within the confines of the rules...technically.  That is what I believe.  He says in his own words that he took a better player and as such, Newbill was out....nothing "wrong" in his view by the letter of the NCAA rules with what he did.  He is absolutely correct.

The question goes beyond that, which is whether it's the right thing to do...you know...HONOR a commitment.  You do understand the difference, right?  Why aren't you asking Buzz to step up "at least be a man and admit it...have some courage in his convictions" and flat out admit what he did?  Or do you only throw that at posters and not coaches?

Nowhere did I say or imply he is lying.  I'm getting tired of your bullshyte suggesting I did.  

Coaches, just like politicians and many others, speak certain ways, often with plausible deniability, etc.  The point being that just because someone says something (i.e. a coach) doesn't mean he\she has given the entire, complete answer, but rather the answer that best serves that person.  That doesn't make them liars, despite your illogical conclusion.  It does make them measured. 

Point blank, your "logical deduction", is full of crap.

[jesmu84]

The point being that just because someone says something (i.e. a coach) doesn't mean he\she has given the entire, complete answer, but rather the answer that best serves that person.

Like Newbill's coach, or someone else in his camp, could have done?

[MerrittsMustache]

Can't we all just agree that no matter how many times it's proven to be true, Chicos will never admit that he's wrong? I'm as guilty as anyone at trying to get Chicos to man up, but it's clear he's simply not going to. Even if he did finally admit to being incorrect on this topic or the Vander-Maymon topic, who cares? Would it really make anyone's life better? No. Would it stop him from doing it in the future? Doubtful. In any event, if anyone else would like to continue to argue, have at it, but I apologize for my part of this pointless debate.

GO MARQUETTE!

[wildbill sb]

I'm free, I'm free. I've finally put Chicos on "Ignore," and my life has turned around.  Free at last, thank, God Almighty, I'm free at last.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I'm free, I'm free. I've finally put Chicos on "Ignore," and my life has turned around.  Free at last, thank, God Almighty, I'm free at last.

You'll certainly have a lot more free time not having to wade through all this BS

[GGGG]

Can't we all just agree that no matter how many times it's proven to be true, Chicos will never admit that he's wrong?

While he may be wrong on the Vander/Maymon topic, he is 100% spot on this time.  I like Buzz, but he basically admitted that he dropped Newbill for Jamil for talent reasons alone.

Why don't Buzzophiles just admit this is the case?  Why do they blame Newbill?  Or his coach?  Or Brad Forester?  Hmmmm....  Why are they so uncomfortable with the truth???