Can of Worms - Opened

[ChicosBailBonds]

Recently saw a Gladwell and Anderson debate on  "The Cost of Free".  Apple figured out the currency that Napster couldn't.  The Nook helped the bookstores take on Amazon.  Now Apple has moved in with iPad.  Magazines and newspapers can't/couldn't figure out giving away their content.  Now that can be solved. Streaming video and content (VOD) is the next horizon.  Burns Brothers new indy film release this weekend went right to on-demand since theater distribution was too costly.  

Good read article by Wired's Anderson, since Hood is silent.

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/magazine/16-03/ff_free?currentPage=all

Free music is one thing.  But when you're putting millions and billions into programming content, that has to be covered with real dollars.  This is why comparisons of the record industry to the video industry are so vastly different.  You're going to see many of these "free" services start to charge because they cannot sustain themselves.

[mueron]

Not sure if anyone cares but I made an awesome grilled cheese tonight. I used colby jack and havarti on pan turano bread mmmmmm.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is an absolutely silly argument.  It's one thing if you are posting articles from ESPN Insider and the like, but simply stating a fact that you hear on another site, isn't stealing.  

Exactly.  The whole premise is complete stupidity.  If someone reads an ESPN Insider story and then anecdotally in their own words fires off one or two sentences about it, is that stealing?  Please.  But I think that's how some people are arguing...of course some of these same people literally believe there are posters here that wish for MU to lose.  So take it all with a grain of salt.

It's one thing to take a song (produced by an artist and musicians) and not pay for it.  Same thing for video, etc.  It's quite another to take a verbal idea that someone has and restate it.  If people can't do that, does it mean someone can no longer read the newspaper or watch CNET business news and bring up what they heard in a meeting....afterall, that would be "stealing" their idea?   The whole notion is preposterous.

[4everwarriors]

Not sure if anyone cares but I made an awesome grilled cheese tonight. I used colby jack and havarti on pan turano bread mmmmmm.

Dude, did you heist the recipe from some premium cooking site?

[GGGG]

Exactly.  The whole premise is complete stupidity.  If someone reads an ESPN Insider story and then anecdotally in their own words fires off one or two sentences about it, is that stealing?  Please.  But I think that's how some people are arguing...of course some of these same people literally believe there are posters here that wish for MU to lose.  So take it all with a grain of salt.

My local paper, which I pay $12.50 a month for, had an article last week about the local poetry festival our city sponsors.  The artilcle claimed that 38 poets were in attendance.

Did I just "steal" that information?  lol....

[Djgoldnboy]

Now this is about being a "man?"  Really?  I'm very comfortable with my manhood and ethics Djgoldnboy.  The only one's who look like b$tches in any of this are you and Muguru.  Seriously.  Y'all pay for your information over there..and you get it...it's not like you don't get what you pay for.  I paid for my info on Scout..and chose to share with the Scoop community - I've never known to PAY for something, and then be told I was stealing..or not a man.

Wow...took you all of you two lines to revert to calling names?  I'm done with this.  If you're too ignorant to see what's wrong with taking premium info and posting that on a free board, I can't help you.  

And yes, it reverts to you being a "man" and doing what is right. You stole intellectual property and moved it from a paid site to a non-paying site.  Look back in this thread, the moderator of this board even agrees what you did is suspect at best, I guess that's good enough for me.  You do what you need to do Man.  It's just not something I would do.  

[Dr. Blackheart]

Free music is one thing.  But when you're putting millions and billions into programming content, that has to be covered with real dollars.  This is why comparisons of the record industry to the video industry are so vastly different.  You're going to see many of these "free" services start to charge because they cannot sustain themselves.

Free music isn't (so) free any more because of the iPod...that is the point.  The Burns Bros. are charging for their new release via Comcast, iPhone, net for VOD.  Straight to video in a few weeks for retail.  What is DTV doing to play protect?  Gladwell and Anderson's dwelled on the "Freemium" debate (think ESPN).  Gladwell is like you, trying to find the currency to protect.  Anderson sees the broader access "means to an end".  Gladwell argued free is not sustainable. 

btw, loved your weeping CEO on "Undercover Boss".  Good segment.

[GGGG]

Wow...took you all of you two lines to revert to calling names?  I'm done with this.  If you're too ignorant to see what's wrong with taking premium info and posting that on a free board, I can't help you.  

And yes, it reverts to you being a "man" and doing what is right. You stole intellectual property and moved it from a paid site to a non-paying site.  Look back in this thread, the moderator of this board even agrees what you did is suspect at best, I guess that's good enough for me.  You do what you need to do Man.  It's just not something I would do.  

A *fact* isn't "intellectual property."

Hope this helps.

[muguru]

Couple things:

1) Would it not be the ultimate irony in this situation if Hood does not announce his decision today - thus devaluing the "premium information?"  The reality in the recruiting world is that a lot of stuff gets thrown around, and very, very few ever know the real truth other than the player himself, his family, and maybe the coaching staff at the school.  Certainly Mark Miller is as reputable as they get..and this is not to discredit him..but to also point out if "premuim information" turns out to be inaccurate, then was there really value in the first place?  Should all subscribers to the Scout site then ask for their money back?  Clearly none of us would..but no need to get spastic over such a minor deal.

2) I'm still waiting for djgoldnboy and muguru to tell me how I am stealing..when I paid for the information I posted here.  Furthermore, they paid for the info too..and they got what they paid for.  Nobody has been wronged.  Seems to me I'm acting in a more Jesuit and selfless fashion than those who act selfishly and don't want to share.

Mark Miller was wronged. He posts here as well. Don't you think if he wanted his info on this board, he would have posted it himself?? Did you ask him if it was ok?? No, you did not. Perhaps you did pay for the information, but others here did NOT. That's the problem. If you want to tell them that info in a PM or something of that ilk, fine, but to post it on the board?? Why don't you go post it on the Alabama board, the Mississippi St board, the Florida State board?? Afterall, that would be "sharing" too wouldn't it??

[reinko]

DJpaulyDGldnBoy, are you Mike Gundy? All this man talk is hi-larious.

I'm a man!  I'm 40!  I can take it.  Write stuff about me!  I'm a man!

[IWB]

I am not going to get into this argument, but there is one thing I will point out. while I was with Scout I participated in a conference call where they addressed this exact issue, because there were a lot of problems with Scout vs Rivals sites.

Technically, if you 'steal' info from a premium site and post it on another, the law says that they can charge you with 1 count of theft. if the thread has 2,464 views as this thread has now, they can legally charge you with 2,464 counts of theft. Now, would that ever happen? Probably not, but I wouldn't just brush it away.

When I was working with the Journal we had an entire seminar on this. The Associated Press' rule of thumb, if I remember correctly, is that they will allow someone to "copy" something like 3 words. But, if it goes beyond that, similar to the page view counts above, they can claim theft for each page view. I can't remember what the exact number was, but the number 25 sticks in my mind. Instead of suing, they will go after a fee of 25 cents per letter or $25 per word - something like that.

Either way, with the laws that are in place, I wouldn't want to be the one that Scout, or Rivals, or ESPN, or the Associated Press wants to make an example of. Like Chico said above in the Northern Texas/Baylor example, when someone like Scout decides to go after someone, will they go after a powerhouse site like a Flordia site or would they go after someone small like an MU site to send an example to everyone?

[GGGG]

Thanks IWB, but is a simple fact stealing?

[foreverwarriors]

Sooooo...I'm going to take the fact that its 7:20 CT already and assume Hood isn't announcing today?

so much for that great Premium material...

[NersEllenson]

I am not going to get into this argument, but there is one thing I will point out. while I was with Scout I participated in a conference call where they addressed this exact issue, because there were a lot of problems with Scout vs Rivals sites.

Technically, if you 'steal' info from a premium site and post it on another, the law says that they can charge you with 1 count of theft. if the thread has 2,464 views as this thread has now, they can legally charge you with 2,464 counts of theft. Now, would that ever happen? Probably not, but I wouldn't just brush it away.

When I was working with the Journal we had an entire seminar on this. The Associated Press' rule of thumb, if I remember correctly, is that they will allow someone to "copy" something like 3 words. But, if it goes beyond that, similar to the page view counts above, they can claim theft for each page view. I can't remember what the exact number was, but the number 25 sticks in my mind. Instead of suing, they will go after a fee of 25 cents per letter or $25 per word - something like that.

Either way, with the laws that are in place, I wouldn't want to be the one that Scout, or Rivals, or ESPN, or the Associated Press wants to make an example of. Like Chico said above in the Northern Texas/Baylor example, when someone like Scout decides to go after someone, will they go after a powerhouse site like a Flordia site or would they go after someone small like an MU site to send an example to everyone?

Respect you a lot IWB - but I'll take my chances..if I got charged with "stealing" something that i paid for..well..that would just be this week's sign that Apocalypse is coming soon.

[IWB]

First off, I was just explaining how it was all laid out for me.

Second, you didn't 'steal' it from me.

Finally - There is no issue with you "stealing something you paid for", but redistributing it without the rights or permissions to do so is the issue.

[ErickJD08]

Respect you a lot IWB - but I'll take my chances..if I got charged with "stealing" something that i paid for..well..that would just be this week's sign that Apocalypse is coming soon.

IWB is pretty spot on.  Also, you pay to read it.  In no way do you own the material... and that's the difference.

[BallBoy]

Respect you a lot IWB - but I'll take my chances..if I got charged with "stealing" something that i paid for..well..that would just be this week's sign that Apocalypse is coming soon.

You paid to view it not distribute it.  Just because you bought a ticket to the movie theater doesn't mean you can bring in your movie camera and distribute it.  People do it and get away with it but if you are one of the people they decide to go after you end up paying a lot more then your monthly subscription.  For this type of thing it isn't worth it though.

[mueron]

So iwb while we have you over here care to comment on the whole hood committing today thingy.

[NersEllenson]

Wow...took you all of you two lines to revert to calling names?  I'm done with this.  If you're too ignorant to see what's wrong with taking premium info and posting that on a free board, I can't help you.  

And yes, it reverts to you being a "man" and doing what is right. You stole intellectual property and moved it from a paid site to a non-paying site.  Look back in this thread, the moderator of this board even agrees what you did is suspect at best, I guess that's good enough for me.  You do what you need to do Man.  It's just not something I would do.

I'm sorry Djgoldnboy - I will be sure to get to confession this week, ask for penance and forgiveness.  I hope when it comes my time to pass, at the gates of heaven, God doesn't say to me, "you know Ners, you weren't a man when you passed along information you paid for on the Marquette scout site, to the plebians at MUScoop - you will need to sit here in purgatory for awhile.

My intention wasn't to steal, but to share with other passionate Marquette fans some information from a good source - Mark Miller - that I paid to get access to.  I'm not going to request a refund from the operators of the Scout site, now that it appears the "premium information" isn't accurate.  I genuinely am blown away at the outrage...

[reinko]

So if I got to the movies, can I tell my friends about it?

[mueron]

Ners what you did, while well intentioned, honestly I would consider in poor taste. But it's not that big of a deal. I think it's silly that some of these guys get so worked up about stuff like this. Oh well I'm sure you won't lose any sleep. I know I won't. You will however surely be going straight to hell for you lack of manly honor

[hoyasincebirth]

Love this fight about whether info that was completely wrong was stolen or not.
Guess what if premium info is true it gets out sooner rather than later. There's no stopping that.

[IWB]

Ziggy - to answer your question, I have no idea what is up. I too heard from good sources yesterday that he was making his decision yesterday and would let it be known today. So far nothing. Is he having second thoughts? Can he just not decide? Does he want one school where his family wants another? Who knows.

One thing I will say is that I have been trying to get info on it all day, and am coming up empty. The fact that I can't get an answer in either direction, tells me that the kid is still struggling with the decision and the coaches recruiting him are fighting with everything they have to convince him why they should be the choice.

[Blackhat]

Premium info ain't that good anymore, Buzz keeps it to the vest.  I get better tips off my rivals national board subscription.   I've posted info from there on this board and no one had a problem with it, got many a thanks.

[Djgoldnboy]

Wow...took you all of you two lines to revert to calling names?  I'm done with this.  If you're too ignorant to see what's wrong with taking premium info and posting that on a free board, I can't help you.  

And yes, it reverts to you being a "man" and doing what is right. You stole intellectual property and moved it from a paid site to a non-paying site.  Look back in this thread, the moderator of this board even agrees what you did is suspect at best, I guess that's good enough for me.  You do what you need to do Man.  It's just not something I would do.  

Like I said, do whatever you need to do Man, it's your world, the rest of us are just pawns in it....