Can of Worms - Opened

[Golden Avalanche]

Why would Mark Miller ever post here again with all the pot shots about the worthlessness of the information? Sheesh.

This is the over-dramatic reaction of a 14 year-old girl. Never did anyone question the worth of Mark Miller's information --- though considering it looks likely Hood won't announce his decision on Sunday one has to wonder if all the information presented as premium has equal worth to everyone. Regardless, whether they kiss his ass or not, his target audience is the MU fanbase and its always good business to play to the base.

Ners is a very passionate fan for MU and with Hood a prime prospect all summer long it seemed pretty innocuous what he posted as we all follow the developments of a decision. Suddenly, he gets called less then a man and bombarded by the "premiums" as if he stole their dignity. Strangely and hypocritically pathetic what happened this quiet afternoon.

[BallBoy]

Correct, but it doesn't prevent you from going on every movie site and telling the entire story, including the ending to the movie.

Technically, it does.  If the movie is copyrighted, which 100% are, then you can't use or distribute the material in an unapproved manner.  If you were to go onto a site and use names, pictures, or likenesses in your description then they could come after you and shut the site down.  Without those things, your "entire story" would be pretty worthless.  It isn't worth their time and effort because they get a marginal benefit which is free publicity and interest in the movie.  Just because they don't, doesn't mean that you are on the right side of the law.  If, for whatever reason, you were to make a ridiculous amount of money on that I am sure it would then make it worth their time.  

At the end of the day, no one from Scout is going to pursue legal action but what it might do is limit what information gets posted.  

[IWB]

Not to keep dragging this out, but the initial poater was in direct violation of Fox/Scout terms of use policy that he/she agreed to when registering/subscribing....

Section 6D: D. Except for User Content posted by you, you may not copy, modify, translate, publish, broadcast, transmit, distribute, perform, display, or sell any Content appearing on the Site or through the Site Services.

And, for anyone to think that what is posted here, MarquetteHoops, Cracked Sidewalks or any other unofficial Marquette site does not affect recruits is absolutely assenine. I know of several recruits of both MU and other schools, where message boards, INCLUDING THIS ONE, have affected decisions.

Think before you post.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Technically, it does.  If the movie is copyrighted, which 100% are, then you can't use or distribute the material in an unapproved manner.  If you were to go onto a site and use names, pictures, or likenesses in your description then they could come after you and shut the site down.  Without those things, your "entire story" would be pretty worthless.  It isn't worth their time and effort because they get a marginal benefit which is free publicity and interest in the movie.  Just because they don't, doesn't mean that you are on the right side of the law.  If, for whatever reason, you were to make a ridiculous amount of money on that I am sure it would then make it worth their time.  

At the end of the day, no one from Scout is going to pursue legal action but what it might do is limit what information gets posted.  

I agree, no videos, pictures, etc...but that's not what I said.  There would be nothing to stop someone legally from saying in general terms what happens in the movie, the plot, the ending, who's killed or not, etc.

Whether it's worthless, I don't necessarily agree.  Of course that is not an apt comparison for what we're talking about in this particular case.  One doesn't need photographs or video to describe a kid may or may not be making a decision about where he is going to attend school. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Like "throwing" a potted plant?  Back to the publically weeping/emotional CEO, can he make the tough calls to lay off people without "crapping his pants" at the BOD meeting or during an interview?   Will you wait five years before you make a judgment on him?  

j/k no answer needed

Happy to answer....I don't know.  And yes, we'll have to wait a number of years to find out (that's the honest truth).  So far so good.    

[ChicosBailBonds]

We do know that Vander Blue was affected by how the Bucky community treated him on their message boards.  I don't think we should by any means discount the role these boards can play in recruitment.  It may seem weird, but we are talking about 16 year old kids - hell, most of us as grown adults wouldn't respond well to seeing our name "in print" and being talked about in a negative fashion.  Furthermore, I don't think it would be beyond any of us as adults to check out a "social network" site of a company we were considering going to work for..to get a feel for the company..and if upon going there...we saw our name being disparaged??  Major turn off.  Now, that is only amplified for a 16 year old kid.  Come on Chicos..you can't merely dismiss this forum and its "role" in recruiting.

I'm not dismissing it.  I'm sure it has an effect on some kids.  Hell, I remember Faisal Abraham choosing MU because he liked our practice shorts.  Different strokes for different folks.  All I'm saying if it's "THE REASON" then that's really saying something.  What happens when the first negative article is written in the papers, or a broadcaster says the kid blew it on a defensive rotation and cost the team the game, etc, etc?  I would hope we have thicker skinned "tough" (Marquette Tough) players coming to MU.

All that being said, that's why I personally try very hard not to attack players...they're kids in my mind, even the ones that are older.  They bust their butts, work hard, balance basketball and school.  They become public figures even though many don't want to.  I haven't always succeeded, but I try like crazy not to.  That's always been a pet peeve of mine.

Now, I'm curious why you think the same rules don't apply for coaches, past or present? 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'll go a step further and suggest that in the age of social media, Twitter, facebook and message boards make an impression on a recruit more than the shiny catalogue from the engineering department. We can dedicate a thread to whether that should be the case, but it is.

If that's the case, then what is to stop fans from another school that is recruiting the same kid to completely...ahem...sabotage the other school?   If it's having THAT much influence, then the chance for mischief at other schools is going to get insane.

[BallBoy]

I agree, no videos, pictures, etc...but that's not what I said.  There would be nothing to stop someone legally from saying in general terms what happens in the movie, the plot, the ending, who's killed or not, etc.

Whether it's worthless, I don't necessarily agree.  Of course that is not an apt comparison for what we're talking about in this particular case.  One doesn't need photographs or video to describe a kid may or may not be making a decision about where he is going to attend school.  

You said, "telling the entire story, including the ending to the movie."  Sorry, if I interpreted your "entire story" as generalities.  Please tell me about the guy with magic like powers who destroys this big space station at the end of the movie.  To make if of interest to your audience, you would need to say names(who's killed), places, title of the movie, etc.  That is all copyrighted.  It isn't limited to just photographs or video.  Have you ever noticed that every Verizon commercial with the Droid phone ends with fine print saying that is the property of LucasFilms? You are technically distributing copyrighted information when you post on a site about the movie (if you are giving any information).  

This is an apt comparison as we are talking about content.  The difference is that the content that is posted on the premium board isn't proprietary and they aren't writing it.  People can get the information from more than one source so it is extremely hard to prove that the user got it from the premium board which is why in most cases it isn't worth the effort to pursue.  This doesn't make it legal.  Once the user identified his "source" as the Scout site, it now means his subscription can be cancelled because he broke the terms and conditions of use.  If Dodds decides to do that is another thing.

[DoddsOnSports.com]

Dodds threatened to tell ESPN that I was posting videos of game highlights on scoop, but he said if I posted them over at his site instead he would be able to work out a deal allowing me to do it.

I kept posting the videos here and nothing ever came of his threats.

I'm all for stealing that asshat's premium content.

====================================================================
Well...all this 'asshat' has ever tried to do was to have a hobby that involves Marquette Basketball. I was a student assistant from '78 to '82 and have been statistician at games since 1985.  In the late '90s, other than Homer's radio show for 2 hrs at night, I felt that MU was getting short shrift in the media so I decided to buy time on the radio and have a 1 hr radio show that was dedicated to promoting an undercovered team...MU's basketball team. The website came from trying to stream the radio show which ended in 2004.

Now...I operate a Marquette recruiting website as a hobby because I love Marquette basketball.....I get back from working at the Packer game and read that some guy named TallTitan...has accused me of 'blackmail'...he says that I have threatened him....yet luckily...nothing ever came of my threats.....hmmm....drum roll....it might be ...just maybe ...because it never quite happened the way that he remembered.

BTW:  this 'asshat' spent about 1 hr and 30 min talking with Kevin Buckley tonight...out of concern that people might get the wrong idea about me. I operate an insurance business and the Marquette Hoops.com website as a hobby….hopefully in a professional manner…and I got a little concerned that my good name ..my real name….was being put into the gutter….so I signed up for a screen name at Kevin's suggestion to give the other side of the story.
 My recollection was that I was looking for a video production expert and I had seen TallTitan's work on YouTube and I was impressed so I sent an email to him about working at our site. But I told him that we could not use the ESPN or CBS highlights that he used because of copyright issues...ESPN would never agree to post highlights on our site because it is owned by Fox Sports, a competitor.   What I was thinking was to shoot some of our own video at games and having him edit it for the site...I think I followed up with the Bradley Center and Marquette to see if a highlight package could be made of the scoreboard video...and when they said ..’No’....I forgot about the idea...I might have mentioned as a ‘heads up’ to him that ESPN looks at You Tube over the internet and might ask  YouTube or TallTitan to take the highlight package down.   I meant it as  a friendly ‘heads up’…ie: why spend 30 min editing a highlight package when it could be deleted.   [hey…if ESPN does not find it or care…go for it…]

My intent was to have TallTitan work for me at our site....I cannot imagine how it got misinterpreted to being ‘threatening’...or ‘black mail’...I am an attorney and I try to be precise…was the email something I drafted quickly between phone calls? I cannot remember.    I never thought about it since until tonight...the email has to be 2 or 3 yrs ago..maybe longer......but when someone wants help at his website....I hardly think he is going to be threatening....that sure was not my intent...reading this thread  there just seems  to be some glee in calling me an ‘asshat’....and I think it was misplaced.  I don’t know if something else is going on here..is there some other agenda going on?….I don’t even know TallTitans real name.   I do know that when someone accuses ‘John Dodds’ of black mail on a message board,  it has more impact that accusing  someone with a screen name  of blackmail….do you understand my concern?  What if it happened to you?  Thanks.
John F. Dodds

[BallBoy]

What happens when the first negative article is written in the papers, or a broadcaster says the kid blew it on a defensive rotation and cost the team the game, etc, etc?  I would hope we have thicker skinned "tough" (Marquette Tough) players coming to MU.

I work with a lot of companies as a partner.  About a month ago, one of my partners comes to me and says I can't close this $4 million deal because our services group can't agree on the terms and conditions, would you be willing to do it on your paper.  Of course, I am excited for the op so I get on the phone with the client and I start to talk to them about why they couldn't reach agreement.  They said, "If this is the honeymoon with that partner then I don't want any part of the marriage."  

I tell that story because it is pretty similar to this.  If during the time when you are trying to woo your client and close the deal (honeymoon), you are ripping them a part or making it hard for them to work with you then what is it going to be like when you are delivering (marriage).  If at the time you are trying to get a recruit and you are saying he isn't good enough for you what are you going to say and how are you going to treat him when he is already on campus.

At the end of the deal, the service group ended up losing about $1.5 million for my partner.  Many of deals are lost because of what happens during that period so keep in mind what you say about a recruit.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I work with a lot of companies as a partner.  About a month ago, one of my partners comes to me and says I can't close this $4 million deal because our services group can't agree on the terms and conditions, would you be willing to do it on your paper.  Of course, I am excited for the op so I get on the phone with the client and I start to talk to them about why they couldn't reach agreement.  They said, "If this is the honeymoon with that partner then I don't want any part of the marriage."  

I tell that story because it is pretty similar to this.  If during the time when you are trying to woo your client and close the deal (honeymoon), you are ripping them a part or making it hard for them to work with you then what is it going to be like when you are delivering (marriage).  If at the time you are trying to get a recruit and you are saying he isn't good enough for you what are you going to say and how are you going to treat him when he is already on campus.

At the end of the deal, the service group ended up losing about $1.5 million for my partner.  Many of deals are lost because of what happens during that period so keep in mind what you say about a recruit.

I get it

But let's put it in practical examples here.  Rarely, and I mean extremely rarely, has a particular recruit or player been trashed let alone continually.  There may be a post or two by someone that doesn't like the kid's game, says he's slow, worried about qualifying, plays a position were are stocked at, etc.  That seems to be different than the example you are offering...I could be wrong (I often am).

What is in bounds and out of bounds in your opinion?  That might help.

[DoddsOnSports.com]

Maybe he's upset with the threat that was made against him for posting videos?  Wouldn't be the first time.  Just sayin

Chico’s...what is this supposed to mean? What threats? Give me some examples?

BTW..I wish I had a $1.00 for every time you have mentioned the fact that I banned you.  I could retire early.   I know it is a badge of honor for you.  Why do you think I banned you?   Just curious...why?   

Could it have been that you were driving me nuts with the 'gorilla marketing' you were doing on our message boards?  Constant...links and posts...5 in an hour to Cracked Sidewalks...then when I asked you to tone it down...then 10 to 20 more posts with multiple screen names about our site’s ‘unfair linking practices’....monitoring my site became a hassle.  I went to a fish fry before practice and 20 people came up to me and asked me about you…and why you kept posting….I wanted to watch MU basketball and not talk about YOU….then someone hears me comment and emails you…and you send an email telling me to stop ripping you…..HELP!   

 This is a hobby for me...it cannot be a hassle...you made it a hassle so I banned you...and I associated you with Cracked Sidewalks...perhaps a mistake on my part...after talking to Kevin Buckley...I hope to do more with Cracked Sidewalks....I have always enjoyed talking to Tim in NYC....and Kevin in Milw.

I told Kevin tonight....a trivia question....when I needed counsel in '99 for streaming my website on the net....whom did I call?
YOU!
...because I respected your knowledge.   We talked for awhile before the Kansas game in 2003….Then less than 5 yrs later...you bugged the  absolute hell out of me as a moderator....so I banned Chico’s...Striped Tomato and the other 30 screen names....and when I asked you in an email in absolute exasperation…”how can you spend so much time on our boards?...can’t you do something more productive..Like hug your kid or do something for mankind?” 
You come to this board and post that Dodds is ‘even offering me advice on how to raise my children…and he isn’t even married.”  Then the replies…geeze…Dodds…what a jerk….    When I say ‘Hello’, to someone…at an MU game and they turn and look at me like I am about to pick their pocket….I figure…’Oh…must be a friend of Chicos.’

I tell people that whenever Chico’s rips me on Scoops, an angel gets its wings.  It makes me feel better, esp. around Xmas.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Dodds...welcome to MU Scoop.

I see you have followed the steps that many of your other former posters have and come over here.


You know, you used to always have a saying, that is when you weren't telling posters how to parent their children, about how you never understood how the Milwaukee media treated MU fans.  You felt they were always treating them as second class citizens of some kind and were essentially giving up on a nice chunk of the market that was interesting in MU.

Think about it.

Good to have you aboard.

[mufansince72]

Now I remember why I rarely post on this board.  It's a wasteland of personal assaults and sarcasm.  Hardly ever anything positive about the program. 

[DoddsOnSports.com]

Dodds...welcome to MU Scoop.

I see you have followed the steps that many of your other former posters have and come over here.


You know, you used to always have a saying, that is when you weren't telling posters how to parent their children, about how you never understood how the Milwaukee media treated MU fans.  You felt they were always treating them as second class citizens of some kind and were essentially giving up on a nice chunk of the market that was interesting in MU.

Think about it.

Good to have you aboard.

Interesting....I always wondered if under the great facade of 'we are all just one big happy family of Marquette fans under this huge tent'.....there was some deeper agenda going on...where there was a purpose to your 'rips’ of me and our site...and to your constant posting with links away from our site...hmmm....please tell me that I misjudged you....just saying....

[77ncaachamps]

Hitting IGNORE buttons.....................NOW! 

[brewcity77]

*Yawn*

So I assume that nothing new has come out regarding the Rodney Hood announcement, or is there actually something of use hidden in all of this finger-pointing, name-calling, and general childish behavior?

[jesmu84]

wow... just, wow... i missed the boards this weekend and saw this thread hoping for some info about Hood and his possible announcement. I did not see this train-wreck of a thread coming. is it at least possible to change the title of this thread so other innocent readers don't make the mistake i did?

[TallTitan34]

Now that there is the other thread maybe this one can get back on track.

Before the report that started this thread came out, there were lots of reports saying he would make a decision sometime this week. 

[bilsu]

Someday the title of this thread will be correct.

[LON]

Now I remember why I rarely post on this board.  It's a wasteland of personal assaults and sarcasm.  Hardly ever anything positive about the program. 

Thanks for sharing.



Rabble rabble rabble!!!

[Canadian Dimes]

rarely ever do i agree with chicos but I have to in this case.

 Strange that Dodds likes to call himself Stalin but then gets so emotional when people call him out on some of his actions.  I sincerely doubt that the real Stalin was so emotional and concerned about his public perception if he was so resolute in his beliefs.  Do you think Stalin went to the Jews meassage board and asked them why they did not like him and try to explain what really happened?  Please give it a break.  Some like Scout, some like to pay to feel a part of something.  Some dont.  Who cares?! Some like Pepsi , some like Coke.

Lastly, since the Scout people are now monitoring the boards and are so concerned about recruit perceptions I have a lingering question....It has been said recruits read the boards and develop perceptions then why...drum roll please....Does almost every single other Scout website call a recruit and interview him after a visit yet the MU Scout board does not?

 Look at all the guys Mu is recruiting after every visit there is an article about that player and his visit when they visit other schools.  You dont think that when a guy calls from Louisville or a Maryland board and asks a recruit about his visit and publishes an article it does not give that player some love?  How big of a part of the dicison making process is that? Who knows.  But it seems when a player visits 3 schools and gives three interviews and then visits MU...crickets....and there is some article about last years recruits.   

Just sayin
 

[Pakuni]

Now I remember why I rarely post on this board.  It's a wasteland of personal assaults and sarcasm.  Hardly ever anything positive about the program. 

I feel personally assaulted by these comments.
Or were you being sarcastic?

[Hards Alumni]

rarely ever do i agree with chicos but I have to in this case.

 Strange that Dodds likes to call himself Stalin but then gets so emotional when people call him out on some of his actions.  I sincerely doubt that the real Stalin was so emotional and concerned about his public perception if he was so resolute in his beliefs.  Do you think Stalin went to the Jews meassage board and asked them why they did not like him and try to explain what really happened?  Please give it a break.  Some like Scout, some like to pay to feel a part of something.  Some dont.  Who cares?! Some like Pepsi , some like Coke.

Lastly, since the Scout people are now monitoring the boards and are so concerned about recruit perceptions I have a lingering question....It has been said recruits read the boards and develop perceptions then why...drum roll please....Does almost every single other Scout website call a recruit and interview him after a visit yet the MU Scout board does not?

 Look at all the guys Mu is recruiting after every visit there is an article about that player and his visit when they visit other schools.  You dont think that when a guy calls from Louisville or a Maryland board and asks a recruit about his visit and publishes an article it does not give that player some love?  How big of a part of the dicison making process is that? Who knows.  But it seems when a player visits 3 schools and gives three interviews and then visits MU...crickets....and there is some article about last years recruits.   

Just sayin
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Close enough, I think.

I'd be cool with a lock.

[nyg]

rarely ever do i agree with chicos but I have to in this case.

 Strange that Dodds likes to call himself Stalin but then gets so emotional when people call him out on some of his actions.  I sincerely doubt that the real Stalin was so emotional and concerned about his public perception if he was so resolute in his beliefs.  Do you think Stalin went to the Jews meassage board and asked them why they did not like him and try to explain what really happened?  Please give it a break.  Some like Scout, some like to pay to feel a part of something.  Some dont.  Who cares?! Some like Pepsi , some like Coke.

Lastly, since the Scout people are now monitoring the boards and are so concerned about recruit perceptions I have a lingering question....It has been said recruits read the boards and develop perceptions then why...drum roll please....Does almost every single other Scout website call a recruit and interview him after a visit yet the MU Scout board does not?

 Look at all the guys Mu is recruiting after every visit there is an article about that player and his visit when they visit other schools.  You dont think that when a guy calls from Louisville or a Maryland board and asks a recruit about his visit and publishes an article it does not give that player some love?  How big of a part of the dicison making process is that? Who knows.  But it seems when a player visits 3 schools and gives three interviews and then visits MU...crickets....and there is some article about last years recruits.   

Just sayin
 

Can you imagine if recruits or his coaches actually read this board and Rodney Hood reviewed this thread about him.  He would think there were a bunch insane idiots at MU.