Steve Cottingham On MU Football

[oldwarrior81]

During the mid 80's-mid 90's Lambeau added about 200 private boxes. 
I remember Harlan saying at the time of pulling out of County Stadium that every game in Lambeau brought in more than a million dollars in game revenue than a game in Milwaukee did.

[🏀]

My understanding is the timing of the Packers leaving was done so that the Brewers new stadium could be planned as a baseball only stadium.  That made it less expensive, so gave it a better chance to happen, and to allow it to have a roof.  Seemed like a deal between Selig and Harlan that was the best for both franchises.  I don't know if it actually resulted in Miller Park being built so that it couldn't fit a football field, but at the time that's how it was sold from the Brewers' perspective.

You do realize that just about every MLB baseball field is double the size of a football field right?

[GOMU1104]

My understanding is the timing of the Packers leaving was done so that the Brewers new stadium could be planned as a baseball only stadium.  That made it less expensive, so gave it a better chance to happen, and to allow it to have a roof.  Seemed like a deal between Selig and Harlan that was the best for both franchises.  I don't know if it actually resulted in Miller Park being built so that it couldn't fit a football field, but at the time that's how it was sold from the Brewers' perspective.

As said before, Milwaukee bailed out the Packers franchise in the early 1960s when the AFL was looking to add a team in Milwaukee.  Vince Lombardi's backroom dealings also had a little something to do with the AFL never getting into Milwaukee.

Bob Harlan effectively deserted Milwaukee in the mid-90s when he realized how much money he was losing by missing out on 3 home games every year.  He had to have a security detail leaving County Stadium during the final game. He wasnt even allowed to watch the 4th quarter, as the threat of violence towards him was too big. 

You do realize that just about every MLB baseball field is double the size of a football field right?

I remember football at County Stadium, went to many games. The 120 yard field barely fit.

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I remember football at County Stadium, went to many games. The 120 yard field barely fit.

Correct. They are generally a tight fit due to the irregular shape, but every baseball stadium could do it.

[GGGG]

I'd rather make money playing in the A10 than lose my shirt playing BE football.  And again we could not be a D3 power because we cannot play at that level.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'd rather make money playing in the A10 than lose my shirt playing BE football.  And again we could not be a D3 power because we cannot play at that level.

I'd rather play in the Big East and play lower level football that wouldn't require us to lose our shirt or require a huge investment.  See how it goes, maybe 10 or 15 years later you have something (a la UCONN, Boise State, Nova, etc)

[ChicosBailBonds]

Correct. They are generally a tight fit due to the irregular shape, but every baseball stadium could do it.

Yup.  When I worked for the Angels the football field barely fit in as well, but it did (former home of the Rams, CIF title games, the Freedom Bowl, etc).

Looking at Miller Park dimensions and Angels Stadium, it could be done.




I went to my share of Packers games at County Stadium in the 1980's and 1990's....the one thing that always struck me was having both teams on the same sidelines.  That was always very weird to see and I never understood it.  Clearly in the photos below, there was room to have the teams on each sideline like a normal football game.  Anyone know why they had both teams on one sideline?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

How much of a money loser is it if the Big East breaks up and we get stuck in a non BCS league with teams like St. Louis.  I don't think anyone here is asking to start at 1-A and compete against the big boys. Nova in 1-AA is in a sweet position right now.  A great football program that very well might not be a money loser and they can make the move up if they have too.  They will have a say about their future if there is a shake-up.  Unfortunately our options will be very limited. 

You're assuming that having a low-level football team would make MU more attractive to the BEAST or another conference.

That might be correct.

BUT... The conference realignments are going to happen shortly. Therefore, MU would need to be VERY aggressive in their commitment to football to make themselves attractive, and that's where I think Cottingham's statement is probably coming from.

Could MU put together a 20 year plan that would cost much less? Sure. But, where does that put MU in 3 years? Still in no-man's land.

IF MU were to start football tomorrow, they would need to commit HUGE funds to catch-up to other small football programs and have a shot at being a player in the BCS re-alignment.

[GOMU1104]

Chicos...regarding same sideline. My guess is that it has something to do with sight lines. If I remember County Stadium correctly, the seats up the 1st/3rd base lines didnt have much of an incline to them, so seeing over the teams would be difficult.  

[Coleman]

Regarding money, if the administration announced they planned to launch a D1-AA football team in 5-10 years, I think the money could easily be raised in that time. Its a lot of money, but once people know what its for, its relatively easy to create enthusiasm and have people donate. Fr. Wild has raised over 4x that in his tenure, mostly for academic buildings. People get more excited about sports, it could definitely be done.

Valley Fields could work in the short term. It would be cramped, but it would be possible to get 5,000 seats in there. Obviously, a stadium would have to eventually be built. But I think people are getting bogged down in the numbers, as if this would have to happen all in one year. That's simply not the case. Its a process.

The bottom line is that this COULD happen if alumni and students were behind it, and alumni were willing to donate to make it happen. From gazing over this board, that doesn't seem to be the case, as it looks like at least 50% of people aren't behind the idea. So that means no, it probably would never happen. Alumni need to realize that their donations largely drive these kinds of decisions. If someone were to step up and donate $25 million (a la the Eckstein or Deidrich families) and say its towards the creation of a football program, you bet your ass Cottingham would be finding a way to get it done. Its largely a self-fulfilling prophecy. If we, as alumni, don't think it will ever happen, then it probably wont.

[martyconlonontherun]

Dude, get creative all you want, there is no room. You realize soccer balls are easily lost to the mighty river?

Dude, I literally chased those balls down as part of my job with athletics. And I'm not talking tens of thousands. How many does it currently hold? 1,500? 2,000? Make the stands just a little bigger and seats in the endzone. Never understood why the need 3 fields. Then curve a little bit onto the north-side. Where they have the soccer tents for locker rooms, put the locker rooms below the stands. That could be a 3,000 person stadium. Nothing big, but good enough for a starter football team I was describing.

[ChuckyChip]

Looking at Miller Park dimensions and Angels Stadium, it could be done.

My question is, would the Brewers allow football games to be played and tear up their field during August, September, and (maybe) October while the baseball season was still in progress?  Maybe they would do it for an NFL game, but for a low-level college game?

[GOMU1104]

This talk of Miller Park needs to stop. The Stadium District would charge a crap ton for rent. More than what it is worth.

[ChicosBailBonds]

My question is, would the Brewers allow football games to be played and tear up their field during August, September, and (maybe) October while the baseball season was still in progress?  Maybe they would do it for an NFL game, but for a low-level college game?

No, they wouldn't.  The idea is silly to begin with.  No way a low level program is going to play in Miller Park.  I was only answering the question that it could be done, but not going to be done.

It's clear MU isn't going to start football.  MU is throwing around ridiculous numbers to dampen the idea from the start...those numbers would be to start a full fledged DI Full Scholarship program...the idea is to throw those numbers around to kill the idea from the start.  That's fine, it's MU's call but they should at least acknowledge people aren't that stupid and there are other forms of DI football that can be played without the ridiculous price tag they have placed on it.

All that being said, MU isn't going to start a football team.  MU screwed the pooch on this in the early 1960's.  Just as they screwed the pooch on the Medical school and other high profile decisions.  MU has done a great job the last 10 to 15 years to fight back from the malaise the school was in.  Improved academic rankings, a completely new Dental school that was badly needed, a new Law school, etc.  They are at least being smart enough about repairing and renewing what they still have and have done that well.  On the areas they botched (Medical School, football team, etc), those days are gone and I don't expect anyone there to go down the path of trying to resurrect them.

[GGGG]

The 80s were bad enough for MU without having to deal with the financial requirements of a football team and a medical school.  Im not sure the University would be as good as it is now if they had to deal with that as well.

[mviale]

I have enough heartburn watching the warriors play bball.  I dont need this headache.  Lets stick with basketball

[PaintTouches]

Going back to the original post, the article was part of a three part series in the Marquette Tribune on the history, downfall and future of MU football. I provided the links in case anyone was interested in seeing the context of which the article was written.

We contacted Cottingham asking for an interview to go over numbers but all they would give us were vague statements through email. We then talked to the Nova AD to get a little perspective but he was very general in his statements as well. The initial plan was to do a line by line analysis of how much it would cost, but without some of the numbers, it became too much speculation so we scrapped it.

History
http://marquettetribune.org/2010/09/23/sports/mu-football-ml1-es2-je3/

Downfall
http://marquettetribune.org/2010/09/30/sports/football-ag1-mn2-je3/

Future
http://marquettetribune.org/2010/10/07/sports/football-ag1-es2-je3/

[Ari Gold]

I've always had the pipe dream of MU adding a football team. Perhaps a few more Mil/billionare alums would help out.

I think IF Marquette ever felt like it was in a position where they needed to add a football team it would be because of enrollment. If there was ever a shift in students where Women made up 58+% of the student population, MU would consider adding football to bring back male applicants. But hell at the rate Marquette is making investments to improve itself, maybe football could work.

-As for location I think some sort of revamped Park East corridor could work. But i'd have to go out there with a tape measure and see if a stadium would fit. Parking would be a bitch I know... but I can't think of too many locations in the immediate area that are "available" Given that the Bradley center is on its last leg, the Frontier airline center is nearly useless and the Panthers are moving out, creating some new complex in that area might work. That is if the Valley Fields are ruled to not have enough space.

Then there is the idea of practice facilities but the valley field plus some space around campus would be worth the buy.

[Ari Gold]

Going back to the original post, the article was part of a three part series in the Marquette Tribune on the history, downfall and future of MU football. I provided the links in case anyone was interested in seeing the context of which the article was written.

We contacted Cottingham asking for an interview to go over numbers but all they would give us were vague statements through email. We then talked to the Nova AD to get a little perspective but he was very general in his statements as well. The initial plan was to do a line by line analysis of how much it would cost, but without some of the numbers, it became too much speculation so we scrapped it.

History
http://marquettetribune.org/2010/09/23/sports/mu-football-ml1-es2-je3/

Downfall
http://marquettetribune.org/2010/09/30/sports/football-ag1-mn2-je3/

Future
http://marquettetribune.org/2010/10/07/sports/football-ag1-es2-je3/

The tribune website needs a better spam filter

[GGGG]

I've always had the pipe dream of MU adding a football team. Perhaps a few more Mil/billionare alums would help out.

I think IF Marquette ever felt like it was in a position where they needed to add a football team it would be because of enrollment. If there was ever a shift in students where Women made up 58+% of the student population, MU would consider adding football to bring back male applicants.

Maybe they should just market the fact that MU is 58% women...granted they are Marquette women....but when you're 18 you don't know any better.   

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

It's clear MU isn't going to start football.  MU is throwing around ridiculous numbers to dampen the idea from the start...those numbers would be to start a full fledged DI Full Scholarship program...the idea is to throw those numbers around to kill the idea from the start.  That's fine, it's MU's call but they should at least acknowledge people aren't that stupid and there are other forms of DI football that can be played without the ridiculous price tag they have placed on it.

Going to have to disagree here.

I don't think the ridiculous numbers are an attempt to squash it, I think the number Cottingham threw out is the number it would take to make a competitive d1 team, which is really what people want and what MU needs.

A low level football team isn't going to make MU that much more attractive to the big conferences, and it sure isn't going to draw a crowd. MU hoops has trouble breaking 12k against bad teams, how many people are going to go watch low-level football? 2500?

Nova's team might be helping them in the conf. struggle, but they have had that program and success for a while. Also, they are in Philly, so that helps them as well.

MU having a small football program would cost the school a lot of $ in the long run, and wouldn't really provide a huge benefit (IMHO).

Creating a large D1 program could be interesting, but has it's own unique obstacles (where to play, title 9, where to recruit, etc. etc.)

In this particular situation, Cottingham is kind of damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. If he throws out "20 million", then people will be pushing to get a team, with the assumption that 20 million will make MU a real d1 program. If cottingham says "125 million", he gets roasted for inflating the numbers, when really it's probably a good estimate to create a real team.

[wildbillsb]

I don't see football happening any time soon, but what about Miller Park? It's big enough for a football field, and it's not like the Brewers are using it from October to early December. Secure one or two Saturdays in late August through September, schedule on the road for the rest of the early season, then get home games later on. And I have to think it would only serve to help Milwaukee embrace Marquette. We have no other football team competing in this precise market. People that don't want to drive to Madison or Green Bay would probably like the idea of seeing a team locally, and it's a fairly short bus ride from campus.

Again, I can't see it happening, but using Miller Park 5-6 times a year would save us that "building a stadium" cost.

We tried that at County Stadium back in the late fifties with the remarkably inept Johnny Druze as our coach.  Remember?  "Moon" Mullins was the AD, and he scheduled Cincy, OK State, Holy Cross, Pitt, UW, etc.  Played College of the Pacific with the highly-touted, swivel-hipped Dick Bass as their featured back.  We beat them, I think, to break the nation's longest losing streak (something like 27 games in a row).  Jeez, that Johnny Druze was a tool of a coach. He used to get all the national ND rejects from from coast to coast, since he came to MU from ND, where he was an assistant.

[Atlanta Warrior]

Earlier I asked the following and no one answered so let me ask again ....

Can anyone name a program that started off slow drawing a few thousand as a D2 that amounted to anything like TCU, BC or Cincy?  If not, why do we think MU can set NCAA history and be the first to pull it off?

If Cottingham or anyone in MU administration seriously looks to waste huge sums of money on this fantasy, I will personally lead to charge to have them immediately fired. 

The truth is after 25 years, MU still would not outdraw Waukesha West.

Let this idea die peafully and never bring it up.

I believe South Florida started small and worked its way up but your point is still pretty valid as, for starters, South Florida is a state school.  Many of the programs that have or are materializing (Georgia State & UNC-Charlotte to name two) simply tack on extra fees and cover the cost (which is easy to do when you have 40,000+ enrollments). 

A better example, of the challenges MU would face would be Hofstra, which had a highly competitive FCS (Formerly I-AA program) featuring an on-campus stadium. The costs ultimately led to them dropping the program.  It's simply cost prohibitive.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Going to have to disagree here.

I don't think the ridiculous numbers are an attempt to squash it, I think the number Cottingham threw out is the number it would take to make a competitive d1 team, which is really what people want and what MU needs.

A low level football team isn't going to make MU that much more attractive to the big conferences, and it sure isn't going to draw a crowd. MU hoops has trouble breaking 12k against bad teams, how many people are going to go watch low-level football? 2500?

Nova's team might be helping them in the conf. struggle, but they have had that program and success for a while. Also, they are in Philly, so that helps them as well.

MU having a small football program would cost the school a lot of $ in the long run, and wouldn't really provide a huge benefit (IMHO).

Creating a large D1 program could be interesting, but has it's own unique obstacles (where to play, title 9, where to recruit, etc. etc.)

In this particular situation, Cottingham is kind of damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. If he throws out "20 million", then people will be pushing to get a team, with the assumption that 20 million will make MU a real d1 program. If cottingham says "125 million", he gets roasted for inflating the numbers, when really it's probably a good estimate to create a real team.

Let me state it another way then.  MU could certainly start a DI football program for far less than $125M....far less than $30M if it so chose.  They are throwing out one number and not the other.  It's all in the messaging.

If MU wanted to start a DI program like USD, Butler, Dayton, etc that could be done.  Whether it has value is up for debate....certainly some people here want the high DI or nothing at all.  Others don't agree.  I see MU throwing out the High DI number and destination as an easy way to dismiss talking of the other approach.  Just my opinion.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Let me state it another way then.  MU could certainly start a DI football program for far less than $125M....far less than $30M if it so chose.  They are throwing out one number and not the other.  It's all in the messaging.

If MU wanted to start a DI program like USD, Butler, Dayton, etc that could be done.  Whether it has value is up for debate....certainly some people here want the high DI or nothing at all.  Others don't agree.  I see MU throwing out the High DI number and destination as an easy way to dismiss talking of the other approach.  Just my opinion.

Fair enough, and you're right. How's it's been presented is important.

One thing though, everybody will WANT a high D1 team, and the avg. alum/fan probably isn't enlightened enough to settle for a small program and be happy with that. Knowing that, I don't hate the $125 mil. statement by Cottingham.