Steve Cottingham On MU Football

[DFW HOYA]

I can't help but call attention to this quote in the Tribune:

"Since Marquette shut down its football program in 1960, costs have risen and made it financially difficult for any college to add football to its resume. Athletic Director Steve Cottingham predicted during the summer that adding a football program could cost up to $125 million. That makes the men's basketball budget of just above $10 million look frugal in comparison."

Does anyone fact-check wild claims like this? No one spends that kind of money on football, not even UW. Georgetown's operating expenses to play schools like Holy Cross and Fordham in Division I-AA was in 2009, $256,328. The rest of the budget is a transfer cost for need-based financial aid available to any student. And most of that $256,328 is covered by alumni support.

And if rising costs have made it difficult for any school to add football, why have over 40 schools done so in the last eight years?

(UW's operating expenses in 2009? $3,883,178. It would take them over 30 years to equal the $125 million suggested in this article.)

http://marquettetribune.org/2010/10/07/sports/football-ag1-es2-je3/

[MuMark]

You do realize that MU would need to fund and build a stadium ?  

[4everwarriors]

There's a better chance that I'll actually sing the praises of Tom Crean wearing only my socks on Wisconsin Ave. in mid-January than Marquette returning to NCAA football.

[Hamostradamus]

85 football scholarships, plus up to 85 for women's sports (Title IX), at $40,000 per scholarship = $6.8 mil per year, for education, room and board. Add coaching staff salaries ($2-3 mil. per year), equipment and travel. Assume $10 mil per year in costs. Oh, and the stadium. With a ten year commitment ($125 mil), it's not even close. And I'm pretty sure Cottingham has better info than any poster here, so he gets the benefit of the doubt.

[GGGG]

Plus we have only hammered out the numbers in numerous other threads.  It will never happen.

[HoopsMalone]

Even at that price tag, it might be worth MU going into to debt to get it.  Football is great for name recognition of the school and would help our chances of staying in a BCS conference, and there are many cash flows that come with that.

Every Saturday in the fall, most alums will think about Marquette.  The more alums think about Marquette, the more likely each alum is to donate... 

When our alums leave the Midwest, it would be nice if more people have heard of our school.  Football would help that.

It is a risk, but could be worth it.

[GGGG]

No it wouldn't.  Trust me, this would be one of the dumber decisions the university could make.  No fan base...little local talent...no facility...complete money drain at a time when that's not exactly a good idea considering the relative puny endowment.

[SacWarrior]

I used to be very much against the idea of MU football but recently I've warmed up to the idea.

If we were to start slow, and go with a small AA program, and work our way up from there, it could be feasible.

I just do not see how anyone could possibly think we could be in the Big East in less than like a decade at the very least. And the only way we can MAKE money is if we're in the Big East, as most Big East schools who have been in the conference for years don't even make money

[BallBoy]

85 football scholarships, plus up to 85 for women's sports (Title IX), at $40,000 per scholarship = $6.8 mil per year, for education, room and board. Add coaching staff salaries ($2-3 mil. per year), equipment and travel. Assume $10 mil per year in costs. Oh, and the stadium. With a ten year commitment ($125 mil), it's not even close. And I'm pretty sure Cottingham has better info than any poster here, so he gets the benefit of the doubt.

Wouldn't that mean that Marquette's revenue would also increase by $6.8 million?  Marquette would be paying themselves so it would be a wash.  It doesn't cost MU $40,000 to educate, feed, and room and board a student.  That is what they charge us which includes a margin. 

The largest cost would be the stadium. If there is not a stadium that they could lease then you have a big cost involved.   

[DFW HOYA]

85 football scholarships, plus up to 85 for women's sports (Title IX), at $40,000 per scholarship = $6.8 mil per year, for education, room and board. Add coaching staff salaries ($2-3 mil. per year), equipment and travel. Assume $10 mil per year in costs. Oh, and the stadium. With a ten year commitment ($125 mil), it's not even close. And I'm pretty sure Cottingham has better info than any poster here, so he gets the benefit of the doubt.

Somehow it didn't cost Georgetown or Fordham or Holy Cross $125 million. You do realize that Division I teams can play without scholarships?

Here' the rough budget for a I-AA team playing in the Pioneer League:
Operating expenses: $325,000
Travel, coaches, etc.: $600,000
Annual Budget: $950,000
Temporary seating in Valley Fields: $175-200,000

Build 5,000 seat stadium similar to Marist College: $4-5 million

http://www.marist.edu/athletics/facilities.html

[NYWarrior]

It doesn't cost MU $40,000 to educate, feed, and room and board a student.  That is what they charge us which includes a margin.  

You are right, it doesn't cost $40K --- it costs much more than $40K to educate, feed, and room/board a student on an annual basis.

Realize that MU operates every year with a tuition discount rate applied to every enrolled student. That said the current published rate for room and board at MU is $40,352 (See link below).  But again, this number is discounted by MU's operating budget (read, your donations) to keep tuition competitive on an annual basis, namely through the Marquette Fund which pays a portion of the tuition down for all students. Contact University Advancement for details.

Here is a link to tuition, etal
http://www.marquette.edu/about/studenttuition.shtml

[Tugg Speedman]

Somehow it didn't cost Georgetown or Fordham or Holy Cross $125 million. You do realize that Division I teams can play without scholarships?

If we were to start slow, and go with a small AA program, and work our way up from there, it could be feasible.

I assume that everyone here wants a decent D1 program that has a chance to be ranked and draw 10s of thousands of fans.  In other words, we want BC, Cincy or TCU and not some third rate program like G-town 'Nova, Marist or Holy Cross.

Can anyone name a program that started off slow drawing a few thousand as a D2 that amounted to anything like TCU, BC or Cincy?  If not, why do we think MU can set NCAA history and be the first to pull it off?

[GGGG]

Somehow it didn't cost Georgetown or Fordham or Holy Cross $125 million. You do realize that Division I teams can play without scholarships?

Yeah...it's pathetic.  Worse than D3 football.  Not worth the time or investment.

[Dawson Rental]

There's a better chance that I'll actually sing the praises of Tom Crean wearing only my socks on Wisconsin Ave. in mid-January than Marquette returning to NCAA football.

"So what you're saying is there is a chance."

--Lloyd Christmas in Dumb and Dumber

BTW, I am more than willing to settle for seeing you in mid-January, you know.....  please post the time and date enough in advance, so I can make arrangements to be there.

[Hamostradamus]

Wouldn't that mean that Marquette's revenue would also increase by $6.8 million?  Marquette would be paying themselves so it would be a wash. 

I am assuming, rightly or wrongly, that they would be taking seats currently occupied by paying students, as opposed to adding enrollment.

[brewcity77]

I don't see football happening any time soon, but what about Miller Park? It's big enough for a football field, and it's not like the Brewers are using it from October to early December. Secure one or two Saturdays in late August through September, schedule on the road for the rest of the early season, then get home games later on. And I have to think it would only serve to help Milwaukee embrace Marquette. We have no other football team competing in this precise market. People that don't want to drive to Madison or Green Bay would probably like the idea of seeing a team locally, and it's a fairly short bus ride from campus.

Again, I can't see it happening, but using Miller Park 5-6 times a year would save us that "building a stadium" cost.

[2012 Warrior]

Speaking on stadiums, aren't they looking to put close to $5 million into valley to make it a real stadium.  Last time I checked not many people show up to an average game there to make it worth expanding.

[GGGG]

Because getting 20,000 to watch a bad team in a near empty stadium would not be positive.  That's even assuming the Brewers would let MU play there...which I don't think they would.

[brewcity77]

Because getting 20,000 to watch a bad team in a near empty stadium would not be positive.  That's even assuming the Brewers would let MU play there...which I don't think they would.

Not necessarily as a place to start play, but if it was made out as a ten-year plan. Start with getting a I-AA team playing at a revamped Valley Fields. Up the capacity to 5,000 or so. If you can't draw there, of course you'll never draw at Miller Park, but if they do draw there and start to build a following on campus, then you think about the jump to I-A, and have Miller Park as an already-built venue capable of holding the number of fans needed to maintain I-A status. Of course the team will suck at first, which is why I think going straight to I-A is a bit crazy, but if you start at the lower level it will cost less to maintain early on and you can tempt boosters with the carrot of a I-A program, allowing the school to build up money ahead of time. Then you talk to the Brewers about the use of Miller for the jump. Even if they have ridiculous demands, such as MU providing all staffing for games, or take a huge cut of the ticket sales, it would still have to be cheaper than building a 15,000+ seat stadium.

[jficke13]

I thought one of the reasons why the Packers no longer play in MKE was that Miller Park was not designed to allow football.

[Tugg Speedman]

Earlier I asked the following and no one answered so let me ask again ....

Can anyone name a program that started off slow drawing a few thousand as a D2 that amounted to anything like TCU, BC or Cincy?  If not, why do we think MU can set NCAA history and be the first to pull it off?

If Cottingham or anyone in MU administration seriously looks to waste huge sums of money on this fantasy, I will personally lead to charge to have them immediately fired. 

The truth is after 25 years, MU still would not outdraw Waukesha West.

Let this idea die peafully and never bring it up.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Earlier I asked the following and no one answered so let me ask again ....

Can anyone name a program that started off slow drawing a few thousand as a D2 that amounted to anything like TCU, BC or Cincy?  If not, why do we think MU can set NCAA history and be the first to pull it off?

If Cottingham or anyone in MU administration seriously looks to waste huge sums of money on this fantasy, I will personally lead to charge to have them immediately fired. 

The truth is after 25 years, MU still would not outdraw Waukesha West.

Let this idea die peafully and never bring it up.

Thank You! You are right! It's just a fantasy by some people.

[GOMU1104]

I thought one of the reasons why the Packers no longer play in MKE was that Miller Park was not designed to allow football.

Not at all.  The last game the Packers played at County Stadium was in December of 1994.

[brewcity77]

Earlier I asked the following and no one answered so let me ask again ....

Can anyone name a program that started off slow drawing a few thousand as a D2 that amounted to anything like TCU, BC or Cincy?  If not, why do we think MU can set NCAA history and be the first to pull it off?

I don't see us ever going for football again, and I agree that it's probably a pipe dream at best, but it's not unprecedented. The Marshall Thundering Herd made the jump from I-AA to Division I-A after the 1996 season. They won the Mid American Conference their first four years in I-A. They also have made 8 bowl appearances since then, winning 6 of their bowl games. They finished the season ranked in the top 25 three times, highlighted by being ranked 10th in 1999. Admittedly they've fallen on tough times for the past few seasons, but it's not impossible to build a respectable program from a I-AA/FCS start.

Marshall is not the only team to make the jump and succeed, however. While they got the first recent acclaim, Boise State is another good example of a team making the jump. They came up in 1996 as well and since then have been to ten bowl games, posting a 6-4 record, but recently impressing with wins in BCS bowls against Oklahoma (the Statue of Liberty play) in 2007 and the win against TCU to start this year. Anyone with remedial college football knowledge knows that Boise State is one of the top teams in the country, and coming that far in just 15 years is pretty impressive.

Considering that teams like Marshall and Boise State play in non-BCS conferences, their success is rather impressive, and proves that you can make the jump. It takes time, and my honest estimation is that you'd be looking at a 25-40 year window if you really wanted to build a solid FBS program. Start in the FCS, build a successful program there, then make the jump when you can. It's not an overnight thing, it's not a turnkey operation, but it's also not impossible nor unprecedented.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Not at all.  The last game the Packers played at County Stadium was in December of 1994.

The Packers were losing money playing at County Stadium.

Milwaukee saved the Packers in the 1960's to make money. Funny how things change in different years.