Endless Internet Argument - A Summertime Tradition

[avid1010]

I've asked you probably 10 times now, do you think we should honor LOI's? It's really a simple answer that requires either a yes or a no.  There is no gray area.

If you can answer that question, I'd feel all warm and fuzzy.

To answer your question, which I already did almost a week plus ago (and even provided you with a link that showed the discussion of Saunders leaving posts on MU Scoop at the time).

There are plenty of reasons not to honor a LOI.  I've asked you ten times, when, if ever, is it not okay to honor a LOI?

[Lennys Tap]

Is he going to take Marquette University to the Final Four or the University of Marquette?   

Apparently he thinks he is attending the latter and not the former (his words, not mine).  We might want to get him a media guide or something so he shows up at the correct school.

Nice cheap shot at a 19 year old kid. I know how much you hate this when others do this.

[PE8983]

Re: Saunders
Crean waited until school started to cut him loose.  Anyone who thinks it was because of academics is being naive.  He was admitted to Duquesne and played immediately.  Are you saying our basketball players may not be admitted even though they are academically eligible by the NCAA?  I didn't think so.

Buzz could have oversigned with Wilson, then waited until school was about to start, then cut Newbill loose.  To think he couldn't call the admissions office and cut him out is also nonsense - he could have just like Crean did.  Then the two situations would be the same.

I'm still waiting for the shoe to drop since Buzz said months ago that at least one of the recruits was headed to prep school and that the player knew he was headed there.  Something tells me that is not going to happen before the end of the summer. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

There are plenty of reasons not to honor a LOI.  I've asked you ten times, when, if ever, is it not okay to honor a LOI?

Avid, I already answered the question almost two weeks ago.

Let me repeat for you, as it appears you missed it.

I would not honor a NLI under these circumstances and these circumstances only

1)  Recruit is arrested \ convicted for a felony crime
2)  Coaching change at the university
3)  Potential extreme family conditions....father \ mother passes away, seriously ill, student athlete needs to be back with family to take care of family needs

That would be my criteria.  I'm open to other considerations if someone can come up with them.

On this board we have been told that a lot of schools release kids for reasons not like those listed above, and that it "happens all the time".  To this day, 3 weeks later, I've yet to see one example of all these schools or happenings all the time.

Honor they commitments.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Nice cheap shot at a 19 year old kid. I know how much you hate this when others do this.

Cheap shot...to expect our recruit, who grew up in SE Wisconsin, to know where he is attending school?  Really?

Uhm, ok.  I didn't think requiring the kid to know where he was going to matriculate from over the next 4 years was asking the world.

I don't criticize (or try not to) how players play, or say on a message board that they suck, are worthless, are not DI players (Canadian Dimes) as others have done here time and time again.  But yeah, I do expect our kids to be able to understand what school they are attending.  I'm crazy evil like that.

[wadesworld]

Would the real Buzz Williams please speak up? Seriously, you guys speak as though you know exactly what went down. Could somebody please provide the exact details as to what went down? Somebody should be able to tell me, I mean you all know exactly what happened. Just like you all know exactly who Buzz is recruiting and where he'll be every day.

Here is the list of FACTS that we KNOW.
- Jamil Wilson is attending Marquette University.
- DJ Newbill is attending Southern Miss.

All the rest is pure speculation and every single one of you knows you don't know what happened and you're believing whatever fits your personal agenda. And you all know it.

Hell even what once SEEMED like facts we can't even be sure of. Do we even know DJ didn't send in his application? I mean, the high school coach who APPARENTLY was fired for being too good and getting too many wins and jealousy being involved (WHAT?!) we APPARENTLY found out was hardly involved in DJ's recruitment at all. Who's to say he was correct in that the application was ever never sent in? Chances are Phillycoach really didn't know. Same with when he was set to make his trip to Milwaukee. Has anybody said this is fact, that he was 3 days from moving in at Marquette

Seriously, nobody knows ANYTHING. The information we got on here was from a FIRED coach of Newbill's who APPARENTLY hadn't been involved in his recruitment for a year! So we're going to take his word as fact?! LOL! If you truly think that there wasn't something more to the story than what Phillycoach claimed then I feel bad for you. We don't even have a clue as to what the truth to this story is. Some of you act like the picture is crystal clear (on either side), when it couldn't be more murky! It's a joke!

Anybody with FACTUAL information, please enlighten us. Otherwise, don't PRETEND to know what's happening, because you don't.

[Muhoops85]

Is he going to take Marquette University to the Final Four or the University of Marquette?  

Seriously, your criticism is lame.  My father once wrote out a check at the bookstore to "University of Marquette".  I am sure he knew I attended Marquette University as he managed to show up at Marquette University for my graduation despite his earlier faux pas.  (And no before you rip on me my parents were not rich and I paid for nearly all my MU education)

As for your last comment about growing up in SE WI and he should know better, as I stated my father managed to make the same error despite living in WI for 59 years. And, despite his affliations with the evil empire, he was always an MU fan (and Badger Fan).  Cannot win them all.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Re: Saunders
Crean waited until school started to cut him loose.  Anyone who thinks it was because of academics is being naive.  He was admitted to Duquesne and played immediately.  Are you saying our basketball players may not be admitted even though they are academically eligible by the NCAA?  I didn't think so.

Buzz could have oversigned with Wilson, then waited until school was about to start, then cut Newbill loose.  To think he couldn't call the admissions office and cut him out is also nonsense - he could have just like Crean did.  Then the two situations would be the same.

I'm still waiting for the shoe to drop since Buzz said months ago that at least one of the recruits was headed to prep school and that the player knew he was headed there.  Something tells me that is not going to happen before the end of the summer. 

Saunders was released prior to August 24, 2007...BEFORE school started.  Facts be damned I guess.     The release is below, he was likely informed the day prior or several days prior to the 24th of August.

http://www.insidewisconsinsports.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=All+Modules&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=63AF775CA3C542DA934155D08C37692C

According to the official Marquette calendar year, school started on the 27th of August in 2007

http://www.marquette.edu/mucentral/registrar/archive_calendars/2007-2008UndergraduateandProfessionalStudiesAcademicCalendar.shtml

[Lennys Tap]

Cheap shot...to expect our recruit, who grew up in SE Wisconsin, to know where he is attending school?  Really?

Uhm, ok.  I didn't think requiring the kid to know where he was going to matriculate from over the next 4 years was asking the world.

I don't criticize (or try not to) how players play, or say on a message board that they suck, are worthless, are not DI players (Canadian Dimes) as others have done here time and time again.  But yeah, I do expect our kids to be able to understand what school they are attending.  I'm crazy evil like that.

Cheap shot. Really. You don't like to criticize how how players play but your ok with basically calling them stupid over an innocent mistake like this one? Suggesting that he doesn't know where he's going to school is so much lower than saying a kid can't shoot it's not even funny.

[MUfan12]

Is he going to take Marquette University to the Final Four or the University of Marquette?   

Apparently he thinks he is attending the latter and not the former (his words, not mine).  We might want to get him a media guide or something so he shows up at the correct school.

Feel better about yourself?

Petty, petty, petty.

[PE8983]

"Saunders was released prior to August 24, 2007...BEFORE school started.  Facts be damned I guess.     The release is below, he was likely informed the day prior or several days prior to the 24th of August."

Correct - sorry about the typo.  What a great guy TC was - gave him a whole week to find another school.   Fact remains Saunders was let go approximately 2 months later than whatever the circumstances were that came with Newbill's departure (along with the possibility he knew about it long before it even happened).  But, now you're irate.  

Still waiting to see which recruit we are going to lose to prep school before school starts...

[ChicosBailBonds]

Cheap shot. Really. You don't like to criticize how how players play but your ok with basically calling them stupid over an innocent mistake like this one? Suggesting that he doesn't know where he's going to school is so much lower than saying a kid can't shoot is not even funny.

I called him stupid?  By using his own words?  That's a new one.  Let's hope Buzz gets that corrected, I'd like to see that verbal gaffe not repeated if possible.  Like it or not, he represents the university now and I think we all want our student athletes to speak well, stay out of trouble and understand what university they are attending.

Now you'll have to excuse me, there is something on television from the University of Harvard...or is it the University of Georgetown...can't recall.

[Lennys Tap]

Saunders was released prior to August 24, 2007...BEFORE school started.  Facts be damned I guess.     The release is below, he was likely informed the day prior or several days prior to the 24th of August.

http://www.insidewisconsinsports.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=All+Modules&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=63AF775CA3C542DA934155D08C37692C

According to the official Marquette calendar year, school started on the 27th of August in 2007

http://www.marquette.edu/mucentral/registrar/archive_calendars/2007-2008UndergraduateandProfessionalStudiesAcademicCalendar.shtml

Who cares about a day or two? Arguing over minutae instead of addressing the substance. All too typical.

[ChicosBailBonds]

"Saunders was released prior to August 24, 2007...BEFORE school started.  Facts be damned I guess.     The release is below, he was likely informed the day prior or several days prior to the 24th of August."

Correct - sorry about the typo.  What a great guy TC was - gave him a whole week to find another school.   Fact remains Saunders was let go approximately 2 months later than whatever the circumstances were that came with Newbill's departure (along with the possibility he knew about it long before it even happened).  But, now you're irate.  

Still waiting to see which recruit we are going to lose to prep school before school starts...

Typo?    

Honor they commitment, I don't care who the coach is.  Crean.  Wooden.  Buzz.  If you don't want the kid, don't accept the NLI.  The irony is, if TC was a complete prick, he would have dumped Hazel and kept Saunders, who was the much better player...sort of like Buzz just did.  Addition by subtraction.  But it doesn't matter, don't do it.  What happened to Marquette University alums that were taught the basics of ethics and morality?  HONOR THEY COMMITMENTS!

[wadesworld]

Facts be damned I guess.   

Funny thing to say in this thread.  Can't find many of those here.

[wadesworld]

Typo?    

Honor they commitment, I don't care who the coach is.  Crean.  Wooden.  Buzz.  If you don't want the kid, don't accept the NLI.  The irony is, if TC was a complete prick, he would have dumped Hazel and kept Saunders, who was the much better player...sort of like Buzz just did.  Addition by subtraction.  But it doesn't matter, don't do it.  What happened to Marquette University alums that were taught the basics of ethics and morality?  HONOR THEY COMMITMENTS!

Do you know for a fact Marquette didn't?  Do you know for a fact that DJ sent in an application and was accepted?  Do you know for a fact DJ wasn't told that he could sign with Marquette but IF somebody they were looking at with more interest decided they want to attend Marquette they would be asked to leave, and Jamil came calling, so Marquette HONORED THEIR COMMITMENT by asking him to leave HAVING TOLD HIM THIS WOULD BE THE CASE?

I'm not saying any of this stuff happened.  You seem pretty positive they didn't.  I am just wondering what your factual evidence behind this is.

[Lennys Tap]

I called him stupid?  By using his own words?  That's a new one.  Let's hope Buzz gets that corrected, I'd like to see that verbal gaffe not repeated if possible.  Like it or not, he represents the university now and I think we all want our student athletes to speak well, stay out of trouble and understand what university they are attending.

Now you'll have to excuse me, there is something on television from the University of Harvard...or is it the University of Georgetown...can't recall.

You used an innocent misstatement to mock a 19 year old soon to be student athlete at Marquette. Now you're digging yourself a deeper hole. If I were you I'd apologize to the kid and quit while I was behind.

[wadesworld]

Cheap shot...to expect our recruit, who grew up in SE Wisconsin, to know where he is attending school?  Really?

Uhm, ok.  I didn't think requiring the kid to know where he was going to matriculate from over the next 4 years was asking the world.

I don't criticize (or try not to) how players play, or say on a message board that they suck, are worthless, are not DI players (Canadian Dimes) as others have done here time and time again.  But yeah, I do expect our kids to be able to understand what school they are attending.  I'm crazy evil like that.

You know what?  You're probably right.  When he transferred from Oregon he really thought he was transferring to a made up school named the University of Marquette.  Little does he know, Buzz has another evil, mastermind plan to get him to attend Marquette University!  The kid has no clue where he is going to school!  Lol (How's my impression of you going?  It's a work in progress...constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated).

You've NEVER in your life made a minor error when speaking?  Never mixed two words up or switched the order of two words in a sentence?  Damn, Chicos, count me impressed!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Who cares about a day or two? Arguing over minutae instead of addressing the substance. All too typical.

Who cares about the facts or the statement that he said he was let go after school started when it clearly wasn't....not surprising considering your factless post earlier today that BMA had to fix for you.
-Sincerely, Lenny


And you're arguing substance?  Jesus H. Christ.  Beware of lightening strikes.  This entire episode has been about SUBSTANCE, or the lack of it by MU.  Substance, indeed.

[mikem91288]

This needs to end......this weekend's pro-am action should get everyone back to talking about players that are actually on our team

[Lennys Tap]

Who cares about the facts or the statement that he said he was let go after school started when it clearly wasn't....not surprising considering your factless post earlier today that BMA had to fix for you.
-Sincerely, Lenny


And you're arguing substance?  Jesus H. Christ.  Beware of lightening strikes.  This entire episode has been about SUBSTANCE, or the lack of it by MU.  Substance, indeed.

I made a mistake today. BMA gentlemanly pointed out my error. I admitted my mistake and thanked BMA for setting me straight. No histrionics. No name calling. No YELLING. No swearing. No hyperbole. Just adult discourse. Try it. You might like it.

[PE8983]

"The irony is, if TC was a complete prick, he would have dumped Hazel and kept Saunders, who was the much better player...sort of like Buzz just did."

That's easy to say after it was determined who would have the better college career.  There's a good chance TC didn't know who was the better player.  Neither were highly rated out of high school.

Since you're so smart, why don't you tell me why TC waited so long to dump Saunders, when he knew James wasn't going to the draft back in early June or so?

[chapman]

Wow, can we lock this thread to stop the insanity now?  We have more fairy tales about Newbill and Saunders than a pre-school book stack, insight into Newbill's life rivaling that of the Kardashians despite DJ not having any coverage from E!, and a slight of one our own players straight from the Badger board.  Seems like a good couple days work...

[CTWarrior]

After reading all of this, what I (a very reasonable person) can come up as the two most likely scenarios:

GOOD FOR MU SCENARIO

DJ Newbill really wants to attend Marquette.  Buzz accepts his NLI but tells him, "Look, we love you as a player and would love to have you at MU, but we're deep at your position and we have other needs that you don't specifically fill.  If I can fill those needs this year, I'm going to ask you to attend prep school and attend MU one year later."  
It turns out through happenstance that Wilson becomes available, wants to attend Marquette, and we say to Newbill, "Sorry, we're going to go in a different direction with that scholarship.  We still want you to attend Marquette, but we have no room for you in this recruiting class and would like you to attend prep school."
That doesn't appeal to Newbill at all, he feels like he's been used and his "camp" lashes out at MU.  A more sophisticated group of advisors probably would have known this was a very real possibility and not allowed DJ to enter into the pact unless he was sure what it meant.

BAD FOR MU SCENARIO

We give Newbill an NLI to lock up a contingency in case we can't do better, Wilson becomes available and we say, "Sorry, DJ, but we cannot honor the NLI because we're oversigned by one."


Sorry, but I live in the real world, and in the real world your weakest recruit doesn't just happen to violate NCAA rules inadvertantly and by some miraculous coincidence a top level player becomes available at the same time.

By the way, based on some of Buzz' comments the GOOD FOR MU scenario is my best wildly uninformed guess at what happened, and isn't really too good for MU.  What's done is done, I hope it isn't repeated.

[bma725]

That's easy to say after it was determined who would have the better college career.  There's a good chance TC didn't know who was the better player.  Neither were highly rated out of high school.

Actually there's about a 0% chance of that.  Anyone who'd seen both of them play, as Crean had, knew who was the better player after about 15 minutes.  Saunders was a 4-Star recruit according to Scout.com, and he was considered by most to be one of the best prep schools players in the country, Hazel was a 2-Star recruit according to that same service.  Outside of Marquette, Saunders had interest from places like Tennesee, Providence, Cincinatti, and Georgia.  Hazel had interest from Lehigh, Hofstra, UMass, and Rhode Island.  It was obvious to basically anyone with any knowledge of the two, who was the more talented prospect back then.