MBOA MIGHT BE LEAVING THE PROGRAM

[ChicosBailBonds]

So why do you feel people hate TC so much, yet give Majerus and KO a pass?  It's not rocket science...time.  I'm guessing Packer fans won't be booing Farve 10 years from now.  So why waste your time trying to get others to be fair to an a$$?  

Sorry you don't care if your teams coach is a jerk.  I moved my season tickets away from the MU bench during the Deane days because of his language, and I'd have young kids with me.  It was an embarrassment to MU, and I still think Father Wilde was gutless (start the Warriors talk now) for allowing that crap.  

I respect what you did in moving your tickets, I would have done the same thing.  

Let's put it this way, on the JERK METER, at least to most of the Milwaukee and national public, Crean came in pretty low.  Crean was never stupid enough to rip on the school (KO), to cheat on his wife in public (KO), get publicly drunk (MD, KO), etc.

Yes, people behind the scenes knew the real TC was a douche but most of the public didn't.  Just as most of the public Indiana fans don't either.  

So let me clarify, if my coach is promoting the hell out of Marquette, getting us national acclaim, putting us on the lips and tongues of people in the basketball world that hadn't spoken about us outside of the bubble that is Milwaukee but is a pain in the ass to work for, rubs some of the blue hairs and former M Club members the wrong way....I have to tell you....I don't care.

Maybe that's because a few of those people need to be rubbed the wrong way (most do not, but a few certainly do).  

As much of an "A$$" that TC was, most in Milwaukee or nationally never knew this.  He never crapped on MU and did more PR for the school than we had seen in 2+ decades sans Jeffrey Dahmer.  And yes, I agree that time changes things, but I'm also going to be happy to remind people that LOVE KO and LOVE Majerus and LOVE MD how hypocritical they are.  You can't sit there and drool over KO and call TC an A$$.  I'm sorry, but that isn't going to fly with anyone.

[ChicosBailBonds]

KO was a dick of major proportions

I wasn't in a position to know this, and I'm glad I didn't.  Although, I guess his comment on his contract ("I wouldn't use it to blow my nose on" - was it?) should have been a clue.  
I did like his first year's recruiting class. (Well, not the Keith Stewart transfer)  And he was the only coach I actually met at alumni receptions (in Chicago) after games.  He also was the only coach who, I think, is in Buzz's class when it comes to honesty.  Maybe, too much.  After one game I think I remember O'Neil saying that Logterman played so bad that O'Neil told him that he looked like he was "high" out there.

Thank God cell phones with cameras and the internet weren't around in his Kevin's party days, which coincided with his tenure at MU.  It would not have been a good situation for a Catholic university to say the least.

[Dawson Rental]

I stick up for what he did for MU, not for his A$$ness.  KO was a dick of major proportions, yet almost no one here gets upset because he was an A$$.  Therein lies the hypocrisy.  Majerus left us hanging out in the cold and in MUCH worse shape than TC ever did, yet no one gets all hot and bothered over it.

I'm just challenging the hypocrisy, Avid.  I think that is more than a fair analysis.  I have and will always maintain that I could give a rat's A$$ if my coach is a jerk or not, I want him to graduate players, keep them out of NCAA trouble, keep them off the police blotter, and win a lot of games (i.e, go to the NCAA tournament more often than not).  Some people want their coach to be the nicest guy in the world if the players don't graduate, who cares.  If the players have a few indiscretions, look the other way.  Sure, I'd love to have a coach that is the nicest guy in the word, wins, graduates players, etc, etc....let's hope that's what we have.  We should know in a few more years.

Majerus left us hanging out in the cold...

This one shocks me.  I was positive that Majerus was shown the door.  It's hard to believe that he was able to leave on his own.

...and in MUCH worse shape than TC ever did

Tommy might not have left his best team, but it was closer to his best than his worst.  I'm sure Buzz was glad to have a year's worth of breathing room.

[Dawson Rental]

So Chicos, (I hope that you don't mind me using your nick name, so to speak)
In your opinion, was Crean a douche from the gitgo or did success ruin him?
I've always assumed that the final four made his head four times bigger, but I really don't know.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Majerus left us hanging out in the cold...

This one shocks me.  I was positive that Majerus was shown the door.  It's hard to believe that he was able to leave on his own.

...and in MUCH worse shape than TC ever did

Tommy might not have left his best team, but it was closer to his best than his worst.  I'm sure Buzz was glad to have a year's worth of breathing room.

I think we're saying the same thing on your second point.  In my mind, TC left MU in decent shape, not great shape, but decent shape. Canadian Dimes and others will scream bloody murder at this about the cupboard being bare, but at the end of the day, 4 of the top 10 scorers in MU history were on the roster with eligibility to play when Crean left.  Plus, Buzz isn't at MU without Crean to begin with.  So I think we're saying the same thing.

As for Majerus being shown the door....I don't think so, but anything is possible.  Majerus left Marquette in JUNE.....JUNE of 1986.  That is such a ridiculous time to leave it's incredible.  I cannot believe MU would push out a coach in June of any year unless they had no clue at the helm of the university and the athletic department.  It's such a horrible time to leave.  Dukiet was hired July 5th.  If MU were to push a coach out, you typically do that in March or April so you have time to hire a good coach over the coming month during and after the tournament.  In June, you're screwed.

Maybe someone will correct me on this, but my belief is that Majerus was certainly feeling the pressure.  Three NIT appearances, losing Wolf to North Carolina, etc, but he wasn't forced out.  Instead, perhaps he felt the pressure was too great and wanted to jump ship before the eventual axe came down a year or two later.  But were left big time in the cold on that one.

[sailwi]

The urban legend was Majerus was feeling the heat and he was having health issues because of the stress and AL engineered his job with the Bucks, no way MU pushed him out on almost the 4th of July.  I remember when Majerus left thinking how do we find a quality coach at that time of year obviously we didn't.

[tower912]

pretty sure majerus left in June of 86, seeing how I graduated in 88 having suffered through a couple years of Dukiet, but that is just splitting hairs.   And the rumors on campus at the time was that influential alumni encouraged him to go because he wasn't Al.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So Chicos, (I hope that you don't mind me using your nick name, so to speak)
In your opinion, was Crean a douche from the gitgo or did success ruin him?
I've always assumed that the final four made his head four times bigger, but I really don't know.

I worked with him for 6 months before I took the job in California in pro sports.  I will say this, definitely tough to work for but not tough to work with.  I don't know if that resonates well with how I'm saying it, but everything I asked him to do, he did.  When I asked him to personally call season ticket holders and have his team and assistants do it, he did it without any hesitation.  They did it for weeks on end.  When I asked him to attend certain functions big and small to speak, promote MU, build up the brand so to speak, he did it without any hesitation.

He definitely had a salesman personality which a lot of people do not like.  He also felt he was the CEO of basketball program which was different than in other regimes where the coach wanted to coach and let the PR group do PR, the ticket group do ticketing, marketing do marketing, etc.  That rubbed people wrong because they were used to doing their own thing.

I don't know if he "changed" per se, but certainly success doesn't sit well with many people.  My guess is that it probably enhanced some idiosyncrasies that were already there that not everyone cared for.  Count me on that list, but I'm also a results oriented person and he more often than not delivered the results I was looking for (wins, graduation rates, attendance was high, no NCAA violations, etc, etc)

[Dawson Rental]

The urban legend was Majerus was feeling the heat and he was having health issues because of the stress and AL engineered his job with the Bucks, no way MU pushed him out on almost the 4th of July.  I remember when Majerus left thinking how do we find a quality coach at that time of year obviously we didn't.

Yeah, but we were able to find a coach whose name rhymed with Marquette.  He played piano at his introductory news conference, as well, I think.

Oh, the bad ol' days.

BTW, young 'ens, the use of teal above should not be taken to mean that the statements are made up.  Incredibly, they are true.  Those were two points of emphasis when Dukiet was first presented to the public.

[ChicosBailBonds]

pretty sure majerus left in June of 86, seeing how I graduated in 88 having suffered through a couple years of Dukiet, but that is just splitting hairs.   And the rumors on campus at the time was that influential alumni encouraged him to go because he wasn't Al.

Sorry, typo...yes it was '86. 

[4everwarriors]

Can I set the record straight on Rick? Here are the facts. MU felt they had the next great young coach sitting next to Hank as his assistant. Rick felt he was ready to be the head dude and Marquette was increasingly concerned they'd lose him to the Badgers. Hence, Hank was eased out and Rick promoted. In hindsight, Rick wasn't ready. And, certainly not ready to be the Warriors' head coach. The pressure to succeed not only in Milwaukee, but also at his alma mater was taking it's toll on Majerus. He became beet red when arguing with the refs (looked like he was going to pop a gasket or stroke out at any minute). He could advance MU only to 3 NIT invitations in 3 years, and lost Joe Wolf to UNC. This, by the way, was the proverbial straw. I contend that had Wolf come to MU, Rick would still be our coach. Yes, he would have secured the program and Rick for decades.
There were rumblings amongst the alums that perhaps Rick was out of his league. Pressure mounted. So, before, he faced the firing squad, his good friend, Don Nelson, saved his face in June, thereby BF'ing MU. Come sit next to me as my 2nd asst. The public perception would be that this was a professional advancement. In reality, Rick took a huge pay cut to do so. And, Marquette was left high and dry looking for a head coach in June, with none other than Hank leading the search. Enter the savior, Mike Newell, for Arkansas-Little Rock. Took the gig for a day, July 4. Word has it his wife nixed the deal. Amazingly, Hank hired the next dick on his list on July 5. Enter Bob Dukiet from St. Peters. 'Nough said.
How do I know all this? Let's just say I do, and am a little more connected than your average gardener.

[Dawson Rental]

I forgot about Newell.  He was real hot sh*t at the time, I remember.  After he did his about face, I think I remember Hank something saying like; "I really believe that that man has a bright future."  He did eventually move on to a better job, but not with the expected results.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I worked with him for 6 months before I took the job in California in pro sports.  I will say this, definitely tough to work for but not tough to work with.  I don't know if that resonates well with how I'm saying it, but everything I asked him to do, he did.  When I asked him to personally call season ticket holders and have his team and assistants do it, he did it without any hesitation.  They did it for weeks on end.  When I asked him to attend certain functions big and small to speak, promote MU, build up the brand so to speak, he did it without any hesitation.

He definitely had a salesman personality which a lot of people do not like.  He also felt he was the CEO of basketball program which was different than in other regimes where the coach wanted to coach and let the PR group do PR, the ticket group do ticketing, marketing do marketing, etc.  That rubbed people wrong because they were used to doing their own thing.

I don't know if he "changed" per se, but certainly success doesn't sit well with many people.  My guess is that it probably enhanced some idiosyncrasies that were already there that not everyone cared for.  Count me on that list, but I'm also a results oriented person and he more often than not delivered the results I was looking for (wins, graduation rates, attendance was high, no NCAA violations, etc, etc)

I know we all have our personal biases about who we "like" and "dislike", but this appears to be a pretty honest and fair assessment from somebody who worked with TC (Chico's), and matches the other things I have heard from the basketball managers, athletic office personnel, and a couple of media members. A couple of the media guys did say TC did leave a bad taste in their mouth because they felt he became too "bigtime". I think that's probably true, as well.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Can I set the record straight on Rick? Here are the facts. MU felt they had the next great young coach sitting next to Hank as his assistant. Rick felt he was ready to be the head dude and Marquette was increasingly concerned they'd lose him to the Badgers. Hence, Hank was eased out and Rick promoted. In hindsight, Rick wasn't ready. And, certainly not ready to be the Warriors' head coach. The pressure to succeed not only in Milwaukee, but also at his alma mater was taking it's toll on Majerus. He became beet red when arguing with the refs (looked like he was going to pop a gasket or stroke out at any minute). He could advance MU only to 3 NIT invitations in 3 years, and lost Joe Wolf to UNC. This, by the way, was the proverbial straw. I contend that had Wolf come to MU, Rick would still be our coach. Yes, he would have secured the program and Rick for decades.
There were rumblings amongst the alums that perhaps Rick was out of his league. Pressure mounted. So, before, he faced the firing squad, his good friend, Don Nelson, saved his face in June, thereby BF'ing MU. Come sit next to me as my 2nd asst. The public perception would be that this was a professional advancement. In reality, Rick took a huge pay cut to do so. And, Marquette was left high and dry looking for a head coach in June, with none other than Hank leading the search. Enter the savior, Mike Newell, for Arkansas-Little Rock. Took the gig for a day, July 4. Word has it his wife nixed the deal. Amazingly, Hank hired the next dick on his list on July 5. Enter Bob Dukiet from St. Peters. 'Nough said.
How do I know all this? Let's just say I do, and am a little more connected than your average gardener.

That's pretty darn close to what I've heard internally over the years.  Not pushed out, but got out while the gettin' was good.  Also concur on Wolf being a killer for him.

[Goatherder]

There is no way to compare the transfers during Crean's tenure with those of Buzz.  No doubt Crean had a transfer problem.  He consistently lost players he recruited over his entire tenure.  He lost enough of them that it consistently left holes in the roster.  Buzz might have a transfer problem.  We'll see after he has been here a few more years.  Right now, I do not see it as much of a concern.  

Every new coach is going to lose players and committed recruits.  Crean lost Krunti Hester.  Buzz lost Nick Williams and Taylor.  Not much a coach can do about that.  Buzz had not even met Williams before he decided to follow Crean to IIII.  Players frequently want to play for the coach who recruited them, not a replacement who may or may not fit their style and temperment.  So Christopherson bailed on Buzz.  Mbakwe seemed to be a real loose canon.  Hard to tell what he would have done if Crean had remained, but once he left, Mbakwe was gone.  He just didn't bother to tell Buzz.  

Now let's look at the players who coaches recruited who actually left.  Buzz lost Maymon and Roseboro.  No question, Buzz lost Maymon.  He went after him, wanted him, played him, and lost him.  Roseboro is a little different.  Roseboro was one of a ridiculous seven new players coming in this year.  He was clearly the last guy on the bench.  Maybe he was worth taking a chance on a scholarship.  Maybe not.  In any case, there is no way the guy gets one if there are only four or five to give.  Contrast that with Crean's first class.  Four players.  Two graduated.  One went pro early.  One important player transferred.  We shall see how Buzz's group fares, but up to this point, it is similar to Crean's.  Now look at the second Crean class.  Four players.  Two gone by the end of their first season.  We do not know what Buzz's class is going to do, but one hopes they do better than that.  The class after that.  Four players.  Three gone after one year.  The fourth gone after two years.  Other major, important recruits come in, stay a year or two, and leave.  

There is not much a coach can do about a player who gets into trouble and is encouraged to leave.  Programs are going to have those.  Both Buzz and Crean have had those.  The difference is that Crean recruited all those problem children.  Buzz inherited his.  The only thing a coach can do is to take care that he does not recruit players who turn out to be behavior problems.  Had Clark gotten here and then left, that would be all on Buzz.  As it is, the fact that he never got here is partly on Buzz.  Crean had Matthews and Bell and Christian and Mortensen and Hazel.  So far, Buzz has nobody.  

As for players who verbally committed and never got here, who cares?  A verbal commitment is not worth the paper it is printed on.  Bowen left because the assistant who recruited him left.  He was immediately replaced.  Anthony Green committed early and then didn't make the grades.  Ditto Saunders, except he was an over-recruit, which might give some pause. Crean had Marcus Williams or whatever his name was, the kid from Vincent who transferred from NC State, decided to go to junior college instead, and then got hurt and never made it to campus.   Of all those, if one is inclined to blame a coach at all, the least blameworthy would have been Bowen.  Apparently a player good enough to play at this level, smart enough to get in, and tied to a particular assistant, as recruits often are.

His personality aside, the biggest problem I ever had with Crean was his roster turnover.  Way, way too many.  About half of them.  It left Marquette in constant rebuilding mode.  Buzz hasn't even rebuilt yet.  If he gets through the next two weeks, he will have.  The team will be all his.  The classes will be balanced.  That in itself is an accomplishment, as he will have completely rebuilt the team in two years.  If he then loses a couple players a year, and if they are the pivital players, the jewels of the recruiting class, the players you were counting on to play a big role in the year to come, then you can compare him to Crean.  Until then, no problem.  

[Canadian Dimes]

So why do you feel people hate TC so much, yet give Majerus and KO a pass?  It's not rocket science...time.  I'm guessing Packer fans won't be booing Farve 10 years from now.  So why waste your time trying to get others to be fair to an a$$?  

Sorry you don't care if your teams coach is a jerk.  I moved my season tickets away from the MU bench during the Deane days because of his language, and I'd have young kids with me.  It was an embarrassment to MU, and I still think Father Wilde was gutless (start the Warriors talk now) for allowing that crap.  

avid question for you did you also have seats behing the bench for Oneil?  I only ask because i also sat behind the bench ofr oneil and oneil was far worse.  Just wondering. 

[Canadian Dimes]

KO was a dick of major proportions

I wasn't in a position to know this, and I'm glad I didn't.  Although, I guess his comment on his contract ("I wouldn't use it to blow my nose on" - was it?) should have been a clue.  
I did like his first year's recruiting class. (Well, not the Keith Stewart transfer)  And he was the only coach I actually met at alumni receptions (in Chicago) after games.  He also was the only coach who, I think, is in Buzz's class when it comes to honesty.  Maybe, too much.  After one game I think I remember O'Neil saying that Logterman played so bad that O'Neil told him that he looked like he was "high" out there.

You are right lilMurs... some people think time will heal wonds.  Maybe for some i personal have no "wound" and dont "hate" the guy for leaving.  I beleive 99% of coaches out there would leave MU for IU additionally I am glad he left.  
But i hated Crean 6 years ago and always will.  on the other hand the resentment couldbe/should be greater for Oneil.  he made alateral move and even lamented it later.  I will never hate Oneil i will always like oneil and i persoanlly think the job he did at Mu was far far far more difficult and extrordinary than the one Crean did.  

Mu was without a conference or maybe had just join the Midwest when Oneil was hired, had not been to the tourney in 8-9 years and was not where close to getting there.  He recruited 4 top 00 kids in year one and recruited extremely well after that.  He recruited 3 NBA players in 4 years, won conference championships a sweet 16 etc.  He put MU back on the map.  Crean came in with Mu 2 years removed from repeat NCAA tournaments and a conference title.  

anyway, Oneil was who he was brash hard living hard drinking tell it like it is, lacked diplomacy and could tend to get him self in trouble.  Ok that is hwo he was i would take him any day over a guy like Crean who did not have an endearing quality to him.   Time has nothing to do with it for me.  Oneil was a likeable ass, Crean was a detestable scumbag.

another way to look at it is how other teams fans see the coach.  within any fan base people will liek the coach and others will not.  Funny thing was with opposing BE fanbases almost every single teams fanbases hated Crean, go to any teams webpage before or after there game with Marquette and their boards would be dominated with how much they hated Crean.  Now of course the Crean apologists would protest that was just becuse Mu was good.  And " you want to be hated that means you are winning".  I am sorry but I have never hated Jamie Dixon, I have never hated John Beilien I have never hated Jay Wright. 
Funny thing too is now that we have a new coach you can go to those samw websites and the fans speak very highly of Buzz Willimas they all seem to like him.  Same team, same uniforms, many of the same players.  We are still beating them, but they seem to not think the Mu ciach is a complete freaking a$$hole!?!?  How can it be even the badger fans have a much softer side for BUzz.  How do you think a poll of badger fans and BE fans would measure up and comments about the two.  Seems a majority of the opposing fans hated Crean as well.

what is also proof positive is it is happeneing in the Big Ten all the opposing fanbases a developing a hatered for Crean...think it's becuase he is always beating them?   

[Canadian Dimes]

There is no way to compare the transfers during Crean's tenure with those of Buzz.  No doubt Crean had a transfer problem.  He consistently lost players he recruited over his entire tenure.  He lost enough of them that it consistently left holes in the roster.  Buzz might have a transfer problem.  We'll see after he has been here a few more years.  Right now, I do not see it as much of a concern.  

Every new coach is going to lose players and committed recruits.  Crean lost Krunti Hester.  Buzz lost Nick Williams and Taylor.  Not much a coach can do about that.  Buzz had not even met Williams before he decided to follow Crean to IIII.  Players frequently want to play for the coach who recruited them, not a replacement who may or may not fit their style and temperment.  So Christopherson bailed on Buzz.  Mbakwe seemed to be a real loose canon.  Hard to tell what he would have done if Crean had remained, but once he left, Mbakwe was gone.  He just didn't bother to tell Buzz.  

Now let's look at the players who coaches recruited who actually left.  Buzz lost Maymon and Roseboro.  No question, Buzz lost Maymon.  He went after him, wanted him, played him, and lost him.  Roseboro is a little different.  Roseboro was one of a ridiculous seven new players coming in this year.  He was clearly the last guy on the bench.  Maybe he was worth taking a chance on a scholarship.  Maybe not.  In any case, there is no way the guy gets one if there are only four or five to give.  Contrast that with Crean's first class.  Four players.  Two graduated.  One went pro early.  One important player transferred.  We shall see how Buzz's group fares, but up to this point, it is similar to Crean's.  Now look at the second Crean class.  Four players.  Two gone by the end of their first season.  We do not know what Buzz's class is going to do, but one hopes they do better than that.  The class after that.  Four players.  Three gone after one year.  The fourth gone after two years.  Other major, important recruits come in, stay a year or two, and leave.  

There is not much a coach can do about a player who gets into trouble and is encouraged to leave.  Programs are going to have those.  Both Buzz and Crean have had those.  The difference is that Crean recruited all those problem children.  Buzz inherited his.  The only thing a coach can do is to take care that he does not recruit players who turn out to be behavior problems.  Had Clark gotten here and then left, that would be all on Buzz.  As it is, the fact that he never got here is partly on Buzz.  Crean had Matthews and Bell and Christian and Mortensen and Hazel.  So far, Buzz has nobody.  

As for players who verbally committed and never got here, who cares?  A verbal commitment is not worth the paper it is printed on.  Bowen left because the assistant who recruited him left.  He was immediately replaced.  Anthony Green committed early and then didn't make the grades.  Ditto Saunders, except he was an over-recruit, which might give some pause. Crean had Marcus Williams or whatever his name was, the kid from Vincent who transferred from NC State, decided to go to junior college instead, and then got hurt and never made it to campus.   Of all those, if one is inclined to blame a coach at all, the least blameworthy would have been Bowen.  Apparently a player good enough to play at this level, smart enough to get in, and tied to a particular assistant, as recruits often are.

His personality aside, the biggest problem I ever had with Crean was his roster turnover.  Way, way too many.  About half of them.  It left Marquette in constant rebuilding mode.  Buzz hasn't even rebuilt yet.  If he gets through the next two weeks, he will have.  The team will be all his.  The classes will be balanced.  That in itself is an accomplishment, as he will have completely rebuilt the team in two years.  If he then loses a couple players a year, and if they are the pivital players, the jewels of the recruiting class, the players you were counting on to play a big role in the year to come, then you can compare him to Crean.  Until then, no problem.  

good post goatherder and i think 95% of the readers would agree with you.  of course the apologists/buzz detractors will not.

  at the end of the day no one craes about the Roseboro's and Bells etc.  Not every team can have 13 starters therefore  coachs need to sign developmental players.  players that can hopefully fill a role and help produce after a few years and have a good attitude to work towards that goal.  not every player you sign with that intent ends up comfortable in that role or has the work ethic or even talent to be a player like a cubi or an acker.  those guys have to be the toughest mentally and the hardest workers to bust ass for 2-3 years to get time as a senior.  Another player of that ilk wasDAvid Diggs rarely ever saw the court for 3 years and not a whole lot even as as senior.   most guys take the easy route and transfer to a lesser program so they can play.  These guys are used to scoring 20+ a game and always being the best player on the their team or the court, sitting for 2-3 years is not easy.  all programs are going to have that type of turnover.  No one beguges a coach when those players turnover.  Yet red flags wave wehn team captains and starters and heavily counted on players bail.  When that starts happening to Buzz then people will become concerned as they should. 

[Skatastrophy]

Worst thread of all time.

[Blackhat]

This thread turned into a waste dump after page 2.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You are right lilMurs... some people think time will heal wonds.  Maybe for some i personal have no "wound" and dont "hate" the guy for leaving.  I beleive 99% of coaches out there would leave MU for IU additionally I am glad he left.  
But i hated Crean 6 years ago and always will.  on the other hand the resentment couldbe/should be greater for Oneil.  he made alateral move and even lamented it later.  I will never hate Oneil i will always like oneil and i persoanlly think the job he did at Mu was far far far more difficult and extrordinary than the one Crean did.  

Mu was without a conference or maybe had just join the Midwest when Oneil was hired, had not been to the tourney in 8-9 years and was not where close to getting there.  He recruited 4 top 00 kids in year one and recruited extremely well after that.  He recruited 3 NBA players in 4 years, won conference championships a sweet 16 etc.  He put MU back on the map.  Crean came in with Mu 2 years removed from repeat NCAA tournaments and a conference title.  

anyway, Oneil was who he was brash hard living hard drinking tell it like it is, lacked diplomacy and could tend to get him self in trouble.  Ok that is hwo he was i would take him any day over a guy like Crean who did not have an endearing quality to him.   Time has nothing to do with it for me.  Oneil was a likeable ass, Crean was a detestable scumbag.

another way to look at it is how other teams fans see the coach.  within any fan base people will liek the coach and others will not.  Funny thing was with opposing BE fanbases almost every single teams fanbases hated Crean, go to any teams webpage before or after there game with Marquette and their boards would be dominated with how much they hated Crean.  Now of course the Crean apologists would protest that was just becuse Mu was good.  And " you want to be hated that means you are winning".  I am sorry but I have never hated Jamie Dixon, I have never hated John Beilien I have never hated Jay Wright. 
Funny thing too is now that we have a new coach you can go to those samw websites and the fans speak very highly of Buzz Willimas they all seem to like him.  Same team, same uniforms, many of the same players.  We are still beating them, but they seem to not think the Mu ciach is a complete freaking a$$hole!?!?  How can it be even the badger fans have a much softer side for BUzz.  How do you think a poll of badger fans and BE fans would measure up and comments about the two.  Seems a majority of the opposing fans hated Crean as well.

what is also proof positive is it is happeneing in the Big Ten all the opposing fanbases a developing a hatered for Crean...think it's becuase he is always beating them?   

I have but one question for you.

Were you required to take English 001 and 002 at Marquette?

[nyg]

I have but one question for you.

Were you required to take English 001 and 002 at Marquette?

Marquette High School???

[ChicosBailBonds]

Marquette High School???

[AlumKCof93]

So Mbao might be leaving the program . . . .

[Skatastrophy]

So Mbao might be leaving the program . . . .

No, he's cool.  It's some other guy named "MBOA."  He's just a student, though, so I dunno why this isn't in the superbar.