Should Lazar's Number Be Retired Someday

[TallTitan34]

I'm not asking if Lazar's number should be retired today but should he eventually recieve the honor?

All time at Marquette, Lazar finished 2nd in scoring (1839) and 5th in rebounding (910).

If you add rebounding and scoring Lazar is in the company of other retired numbers:
1. Lazar Hayward 2749
2. Bo Ellis 2748
3. Don Kojis 2726
2. George Thompson 2461

Not bad for a guy playing out of position for four years and as the 4th option for three.

[TallTitan34]

Also he's the only member of the 1800-900 club 

[rocky_warrior]

Eventually, I think so.  

But I think they should retire his first # at MU, #24

[GGGG]

Absolutely not. 

[TallTitan34]

Absolutely not. 

Can I get some reasoning?

[RawdogDX]

Eventually, I think so.  

But I think they should retire his first # at MU, #24

I think they should retire his name but not his number.  What are the chances another Lazar will come here?  And if he does he'll just have to have Lazar II.

[Tugg Speedman]

If we retire Lazar's number, does that mean we also have to retire McNeal, James and Matthews?  Same logic applies.  If yes, then should we retire Deiner and Novak?  If yes, how about Tony Miller, Brian Wardle Chris Crawford and Jim Mac?  Going further back, how about Michael Wilson and Oliver Lee?

So I voted no.  Now if you can separate Lazar's achievements from the rest, I'll change my vote.  Otherwise a vote for Lazar is like saying we should have 15 more numbers in the rafters.

[GGGG]

Can I get some reasoning?

Sure.  He's a very good player on some good teams and he put up some nice statistics.  But, like Mc Neal, Matthews and DJ, he wasn't an elite player by any stretch.  He wasn't dominant.  He's kind of like a Tony Miller or a Tony Smith....if you put his jersey up there, you are going to have to put about a dozen more up there too.

[TallTitan34]

If we retire Lazar's number, does that mean we also have to retire McNeal, James and Matthews?  Same logic applies.  If yes, then should we retire Deiner and Novak?  If yes, how about Tony Miller, Brian Wardle Chris Crawford and Jim Mac?  Going further back, how about Michael Wilson and Oliver Lee?

Lazar's numbers are more impressive than every guy you just named.

[GGGG]

Lazar's numbers are more impressive than every guy you just named.

But see, I'm not really all that excited about "accumulation statistics."  Players today play more seasons and more games than players before them did.  His numbers also benefit from the fact that there was a spot for him in which to play.  What if there had been an All-American at his position for his first two years, and then he only started the last two with similar results as his actual last two years?  Would you be arguing for his jersey being retired then?

And Tony Miller's numbers are better anyway.  I am fairly certain that no one will come close to his career assist totals.

[Tugg Speedman]

Lazar's numbers are more impressive than every guy you just named.

If this is the criteria, why was Wade's number retired?  He played only two seasons and did not accumulate the stats like could have had he stayed.

If what he did was "enough"  how about retiring Rjax's 55 too?  Many argue that without him, no final four.

[MU B2002]

  What if there had been an All-American at his position for his first two years, and then he only started the last two with similar results as his actual last two years? 

But there wasn't.  I thought honors and awards were based on actual events not hypothetical situations.

[Chili]

No. He was not an AA (honorable mention doesn't count) nor an MVP of a region, FF or conference. I would put Jimmy Mac's DPOY into this category but that is just me. I think we are too eager to jump to retire peoples numbers now days just so we can see the new guys get some recognition. I think part of this is due to many people on these boards not having witnessed what the current crop has down outside of DWade.

Oh - have to have earned their degree should also be on there - but that is just me.

[damuts222]

If this is the criteria, why was Wade's number retired?  He played only two seasons and did not accumulate the stats like could have had he stayed.

Does what Wade has done in the NBA have any affect on his number being retired? I'm sure it didn't hurt.

[TallTitan34]

So finishing in the top 5 of two huge categories means nothing?

[GGGG]

But there wasn't.  I thought honors and awards were based on actual events not hypothetical situations.

Yes, but IMO, I would rather put up a guy who was great for two years (Wade) rather than a guy who was very good for four years.  Hayward's stats exist because he played a lot - not because he was a great player.

I mean, should we really retire the jersey for a guy who was not even first team all-conference?

[GGGG]

So finishing in the top 5 of two huge categories means nothing?

It doesn't mean nothing, but it doesn't mean you are one of the all-time greats.  It just means you've played a lot. 

[MerrittsMustache]

It doesn't mean nothing, but it doesn't mean you are one of the all-time greats.  It just means you've played a lot. 

Just to play devil's advocate, there are a lot of players who played a lot at MU but didn't put up numbers similar to the ones Lazar put up.

[MUSF]

If this is the criteria, why was Wade's number retired?  He played only two seasons and did not accumulate the stats like could have had he stayed.

If what he did was "enough"  how about retiring Rjax's 55 too?  Many argue that without him, no final four.

Wade was a transcendent player.  He dominated games on a regular basis and his performance against Kentucky was one of the best in the history of the NCAA tournament.  Not to mention the fact that he is largely responsible for bringing the program back to national prominence, and yes, his NBA career has something to do with it.  Lazar is a good player but any attempt to compare him to Wade or most other players with numbers hanging in the Bradley Center rafters is simply a manipulation of stats to distort reality. 

You know what they say about statistics.  They are like bikinis.  What they reveal is suggestive but what they conceal is vital.

[flash]

I don't think that statistics alone should get somene's number retired.  The player has to do something specail, like make a deep tournament run, or have a huge game on a huge stage.  Lazar didn't do any of those things so I don't think his number deserves to be retired.  I love Lazar, he is one of my favorite players of all time but he lacks the post season credentials to have his number retired.  

[DJO's Pump Fake]

IMO you can't retire Lazar's jersey until you retire McNeal's.

Lazar was an HO all american, 2nd team BE and 2nd in scoring.

Jerel was 2nd team All American (In a much tougher field), 1st team BE (In a much tougher BE) and 1st in scoring.

I vote no and the only on of the latest "4" to retire their Jersey should be Jerel.

[MerrittsMustache]

It's probably too late for this, but I'd like to see Marquette adopt a system where they have two categories: Retired Jerseys and Honored Jerseys. UNC does something similar (probably because they'd have no numbers left if they didn't). At UNC a player's Jersey/Number is retired if, and only if, he win a National Player of the Year award. Other players simply have their numbers hung in the rafters (aka "honored") but not retired.

Obviously, MU is no UNC in terms of basketball tradition, but I'd like to see players who are First Team All-Americans get their numbers retired and perhaps All-Conference performers honored (though that still might be too many). Recent players like Lazar, DJ, Wes, Diener, Novak, etc were great players for Marquette and it would be nice for them to be recognized, but none of them are in the same category as Wade or Thompson or Meminger.

[wyoMUfan]

I think it should be less about individual accomplishments and the mix of those accomplishments with team success.
We didn't have any post season success under lazar, wes, dj, or mcneal.

I wouldn't have a problem w/ retiring novaks or dieners because of their individual success and their final four appearance.

[MerrittsMustache]

IMO you can't retire Lazar's jersey until you retire McNeal's.

Lazar was an HO all american, 2nd team BE and 2nd in scoring.

Jerel was 2nd team All American (In a much tougher field), 1st team BE (In a much tougher BE) and 1st in scoring.

I vote no and the only on of the latest "4" to retire their Jersey should be Jerel.

I believe Jerel's number will be retired. Jeronne Maymon was originally going to wear #22 at MU but switched to #25 prior to the season. Vander Blue wore #22 in HS but is apparently going to be wearing #2 at MU. It's also very possible that I'm simply reading too much into that.

[Chili]

It's probably too late for this, but I'd like to see Marquette adopt a system where they have two categories: Retired Jerseys and Honored Jerseys. UNC does something similar (probably because they'd have no numbers left if they didn't). At UNC a player's Jersey/Number is retired if, and only if, he win a National Player of the Year award. Other players simply have their numbers hung in the rafters (aka "honored") but not retired.

Obviously, MU is no UNC in terms of basketball tradition, but I'd like to see players who are First Team All-Americans get their numbers retired and perhaps All-Conference performers honored (though that still might be too many). Recent players like Lazar, DJ, Wes, Diener, Novak, etc were great players for Marquette and it would be nice for them to be recognized, but none of them are in the same category as Wade or Thompson or Meminger.

That is false. Here is the criteria (which I also think MU should adopt):

To have his jersey honored, a player must have met one of the following criteria[34]:

   * MVP of a National Championship-winning team
   * Member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team
   * First- or second-team All-America
   * ACC Player of the Year
   * NCAA Tournament MOP