Should Lazar's Number Be Retired Someday

[MUSF]

UNC does something similar (probably because they'd have no numbers left if they didn't). At UNC a player's Jersey/Number is retired if, and only if, he win a National Player of the Year award. Other players simply have their numbers hung in the rafters (aka "honored") but not retired.

You hit the nail on the head with the basketball tradition of UNC.  When you actually sit in the Dean Dome, look up at the rafters and see the immortal names on those jerseys you understand how truly great that program is.  There aren't many names up there that average basketball fans wouldn't recognize, Jordan, Worthy, Stackhouse, Carter, Jamison, Daugherty...  I don't think it would have the same awe inspiring effect at MU.

[MUBurrow]

i would like to see Jerel's number retired because he is the program's leading scorer. i'm not a big fan of using stats over a career to make judgments as to jersey retirement either, but theres something that sticks out to me about the scoring record.  when you put the ball in the basket more times than anyone else in the history of the program, your jersey should be retired.  not particularly poetic, but eh, oh well.

[MerrittsMustache]

That is false. Here is the criteria (which I also think MU should adopt):

To have his jersey honored, a player must have met one of the following criteria[34]:

    * MVP of a National Championship-winning team
    * Member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team
    * First- or second-team All-America
    * ACC Player of the Year
    * NCAA Tournament MOP

My original statement is not false. You misunderstood what I wrote. You listed to the requirements to have your jersey honored by UNC.

Jersey Retirement: "For a North Carolina men's player to have his jersey retired, he must win at least one of six national player of the year awards: The Associated Press, the U.S. Basketball Writers Association, the National Association of Basketball Coaches, Sporting News, the Wooden Award and the Naismith Award."

[MerrittsMustache]

Double post.

[96warrior]

Based strictly on the numbers, I'd venture a guess this wouldn't even be the vaguest consideration if everyone didn't feel so emotionally invested in Lazar Hayward for the leadership he gave to this team. If it's based strictly on stats, he probably shouldn't - and probably won't - have his number retired. But he'll still go down in Marquette history as one of the best players this university has ever had.

Personally, I feel much sadder to see Lazar go then I did even seeing the Big Three go last year.

[Chili]

My original statement is not false. You misunderstood what I wrote. You listed to the requirements to have your jersey honored by UNC.

Jersey Retirement: "For a North Carolina men's player to have his jersey retired, he must win at least one of six national player of the year awards: The Associated Press, the U.S. Basketball Writers Association, the National Association of Basketball Coaches, Sporting News, the Wooden Award and the Naismith Award."

You are correct. Rough day at work leads to misreading. My bad

[MUSF]

Based strictly on the numbers, I'd venture a guess this wouldn't even be the vaguest consideration if everyone didn't feel so emotionally invested in Lazar Hayward for the leadership he gave to this team. If it's based strictly on stats, he probably shouldn't - and probably won't - have his number retired. But he'll still go down in Marquette history as one of the best players this university has ever had.

Personally, I feel much sadder to see Lazar go then I did even seeing the Big Three go last year.

I love Lazar, I really do, but unfortunately, I think his place in history will diminish with time.  I will bet that 20 years from now Lazar will be that other really good player that played with the big three and had a really good senior year prior to the beginning of the next great MU player's career.

[Ari Gold]

i voted yes before reading any of the posts. I didn't think I'd be in the minority. Lazar's stats and leadership deserve consideration in my opinion. I think its tough to argue tournament success is part of the criteria because if you're an amazing player on an otherwise mediocre team, you'll get over looked. If it was up to me I'd put Lazar's number up there. But I think there are good examples of players like that who haven't had their numbers retired (smith, Miller, Diener, Novak, Mac). Lazar may end up finding himself in this group, but I don't want him to.  

I think the key to the Post is "Someday." Ask me in 20 years. We'll see what comes of Lazar's and Marquette's future.  If Lazar and the big 3 end up being the peak of MU basketball or something along those lines or if Lazar has a great post MU career, maybe we will retire the jersey. Regardless of a retired number or not, he's still one of the best (statistically) and one of my personal favorites to wear the Warrior jersey.

[96warrior]

I love Lazar, I really do, but unfortunately, I think his place in history will diminish with time.  I will bet that 20 years from now Lazar will be that other really good player that played with the big three and had a really good senior year prior to the beginning of the next great MU player's career.

Definitely see your point about the poignancy of Lazar and this year's team diminishing over time, but really hope that doesn't hold true. Had we made a deeper tourney run, this team would have been one for the ages. I still think that people will remember this year's team as being virtually written off early on, in the shadows after departure of the Amigos, remember how they blew away everyone's expectations and remember that the guy leading the charge was Lazar.

Sniff, tear....

[StillAWarrior]

Like a lot of other posters on here, I love Lazar.  He is one of my favorite players (ahead of any of last year's seniors).  I love the way he played, and I love that he played out of position without any apparent objection.  But, I voted no.

In the unlikely chance that Lazar reads this board:  thanks for four great years, Lazar.  You were a warrior and I loved the way you played the game and represented my university.  I am, and always will be, proud that you played for Marquette.

[goodgreatgrand]

Definitely not.

Where does Hayward rank all-time in BE scoring? Where does he rank all-time in rebounding in the conference? Look at where he sits in these categories and it will give you a good perspective on things. Then, look at the players that have done more and you will see that a lot of other schools havent retired the numbers of those players. Hayward was a very good player, but i think it would be almost comical to retire his number. We would be setting the bar very low for the future. Look at programs like Pitt, Cuse, UConn....would they retire his number? Hell no. Those schools get a player of Lazar's calibur frequently.

[MerrittsMustache]

Definitely not.

Where does Hayward rank all-time in BE scoring? Where does he rank all-time in rebounding in the conference? Look at where he sits in these categories and it will give you a good perspective on things. Then, look at the players that have done more and you will see that a lot of other schools havent retired the numbers of those players. Hayward was a very good player, but i think it would be almost comical to retire his number. We would be setting the bar very low for the future. Look at programs like Pitt, Cuse, UConn....would they retire his number? Hell no. Those schools get a player of Lazar's calibur frequently.

IMO, comparing players and stats across teams doesn't really make sense when it comes to retiring a jersey. Top tier programs get college players like D-Wade frequently as well. Should his number be taken down from the rafters?

[Nukem2]

Zar never had any true bigs on the teams he played on.  But, he was certainly a/the bulwark on NCAA teams his last 3 seasons.  Plus #2 in scoring and #5 in rebounding.  Plus he's been an outstanding representative for MU.  Also had honorable mention AA and played/started for the world University Games team.

Zar should have his uni honored at some point.

[🏀]

IMO, comparing players and stats across teams doesn't really make sense when it comes to retiring a jersey. Top tier programs get college players like D-Wade frequently as well. Should his number be taken down from the rafters?

Wrong. A player of DWade is not acquired by anyone frequently. A year ago yesterday he played one of the greatest games ever witnessed in the NCAA tournament.

[🏀]

Here's how I see it.

Lazar was a good player. Lazar was not a great player.

Let me turn the tables on this.

Should Duke retire Jon Scheyer's number?

[wojosdojo]

Here's how I see it.

Lazar was a good player. Lazar was not a great player.

Let me turn the tables on this.

Should Duke retire Jon Scheyer's number?

First of all, Lazar was and is a great player. Not good, great. I could say the same thing about Jerel and he's not even playing in the NBA. I do see your point on retiring the number and I don't think its going to happen either. Let's hope he can first make an impact like Wes is. Anyway, IMO the next retired jersey should be Diener.

[🏀]

First of all, Lazar was and is a great player. Not good, great. I could say the same thing about Jerel and he's not even playing in the NBA. I do see your point on retiring the number and I don't think its going to happen either. Let's hope he can first make an impact like Wes is. Anyway, IMO the next retired jersey should be Diener.

How is he a great player? Not hating on LH, but let's be honest here.

In 10 years when you're sitting at a bar talking about Marquette legends like George Thompson, Butch Lee & Dwyane Wade. Lazar Hayward's name will be nowhere near the conversation.

[GGGG]

First of all, Lazar was and is a great player. Not good, great. I could say the same thing about Jerel and he's not even playing in the NBA. I do see your point on retiring the number and I don't think its going to happen either. Let's hope he can first make an impact like Wes is. Anyway, IMO the next retired jersey should be Diener.

Tony Miller >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Travis Diener

[🏀]

Tony Miller >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Travis Diener

+1

However, since TD was here more recently and more of a fan favorite, people will call for his number.

Diener
Novak
James
Matthews
Hayward

None of these players have even a slight chance of having their numbers retired.

[MerrittsMustache]

Wrong. A player of DWade is not acquired by anyone frequently. A year ago yesterday he played one of the greatest games ever witnessed in the NCAA tournament.

You're kidding yourself if you believe this to be true. While I will agree that his triple-double against UK was one of the greatest tourney performances ever, that one game doesn't trump everything else. We're talking only about a player's college career yet you don't think that there are many players who are the same caliber as D-Wade?

I'm as big a D-Wade fan as anyone but you're completely delusion if you truly believe that.

[damuts222]

 I loved Lazar as much as anyone else, but I think the main point on this argument is the perspective its being looked at from. I graduated in 2008, therefore my Marquette basketball knowledge doesn't expand much before 2004.

 Many posters (judging by their arguing points) are either current students or alumni older than myself. I do not feel that his number should be retired, he was (arguably) the 4th best player on the team for 2 years and the best for one. I do believe he was a good player for Marquette, not great, I cannot figure what would make him great...

[🏀]

You're kidding yourself if you believe this to be true. While I will agree that his triple-double against UK was one of the greatest tourney performances ever, that one game doesn't trump everything else. We're talking only about a player's college career yet you don't think that there are many players who are the same caliber as D-Wade?

I'm as big a D-Wade fan as anyone but you're completely delusion if you truly believe that.

You said:

Top tier programs get college players like D-Wade frequently as well.

If you're going to call me delusional, please back your statement up.

Frequent - "coming at short intervals or habitually".

So let's say there are 10 'top tier' programs. According to your statement, they acquire Dwyane Wade like talent frequently. The average recruit class is four players? So, I'll be nice and limit the definition of frequently to half of the time. Meaning the 10 'top tier' programs acquire 2 players each year that are on Dwyane Wade's level. So that would mean in the decade that Dwyane Wade played in, there were 200 players equal or better than Dwyane Wade? You're crazy. However, there are more 200 players equal or better than Lazar Hayward in the decade that he has played in.

Players in the '00 Decade on Wade's Level:
Emeka Okafor
Carmelo Anthony
Tyler Hansbrough
Chris Paul
Kevin Durant
Blake Griffin
Kevin Durant
Shane Battier
Jason Williams
Stephen Curry

Anyone else to make that list more frequent?

[MerrittsMustache]

You said:

If you're going to call me delusional, please back your statement up.

Frequent - "coming at short intervals or habitually".

So let's say there are 10 'top tier' programs. According to your statement, they acquire Dwyane Wade like talent frequently. The average recruit class is four players? So, I'll be nice and limit the definition of frequently to half of the time. Meaning the 10 'top tier' programs acquire 2 players each year that are on Dwyane Wade's level. So that would mean in the decade that Dwyane Wade played in, there were 200 players equal or better than Dwyane Wade? You're crazy. However, there are more 200 players equal or better than Lazar Hayward in the decade that he has played in.

Players in the '00 Decade on Wade's Level:
Emeka Okafor
Carmelo Anthony
Tyler Hansbrough
Chris Paul
Kevin Durant
Blake Griffin
Kevin Durant
Shane Battier
Jason Williams
Stephen Curry

Anyone else to make that list more frequent?

I'm not going to debate the semantics of the word "frequently" with you. I will, however, point out that Wade was a 1st Team Consensus All-American and every year there are 5 players who reach that status and another 5+ who are named to the 2nd Team. Over a 10 year span, that means there have been roughly 100 players who are at, or near, the same level as D-Wade.

I will condede that top tier programs don't have a pipeline of Wade-type players. I will also point out that nearly 25 major programs have had multiple Consensus All-Americans since 2000 (including Duke who has had 6, including 3 AP POYs, not counting Elton Brand in '99). That might not be your definition of "frequently" but if Marquette had a Consensus All-American every 4-5 seasons, most fans would be thrilled.

[77ncaachamps]

I think Lazar's jersey should be retired...after he plays some professional ball. Having a long and solid NBA career will DEFINITELY help the cause. (But Miller would be the exception.)

But first...
Jim Chones (did he eventually graduate?)
Tony Miller
Jim McIlvaine
Chris Crawford
Travis Diener
Steve Novak
Jerel McNeal


Possibly?
Wes Matthews
Dominic James
Lazar Hayward


A sniff but probably not:
Anthony Pieper
Brian Wardle
Aaron Hutchins (one of my fav all-time)

[reinko]

We could just go the UNC route, honor players up in the rafters, but saving jersey retirement for those select few.