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Next up: A long offseason

Marquette
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Marquette
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Date/Time: Oct 4, 2025
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Schedule for 2024-25
New Mexico
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tower912

For the nth time, Bo lost today because he did not have a plan B.    All he has is his system.     When a team is ready for his system and beats it, he has nothing to fall back on.    He can only win one way.     There are no adjustments.    That is why he can do well in conference, because he can go 12-6 and have a successful year.    In a one-and-done format, having only one way to play will eventuallly get you beat.   But at least you will get beat the right way.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

sailwi

What will be the  excuse this time form our friends to the west, they don't have the urban basketball moniker to use for this game.

GGGG

Quote from: sailwi on March 21, 2010, 07:36:12 PM
What will be the  excuse this time form our friends to the west, they don't have the urban basketball moniker to use for this game.


Maybe they'll blame the refs like we did.

Doc

If that's the case, don't you think the B10 teams would have figured out a way to beat him by now? They play Bo and the Badgers at least two times a year, so I would think they'd be beating Bucky night in and night out.

I'm an MU fan, but I think you have to give Bo and the Badgers some credit for being a pretty solid program over an extended period of time.

NotAnAlum

Last week on Mike and Mike they were talking about how you could judge a coach based on the ability to get more from his talent (a valid way of looking at it).  Anyway they talked about who the really great coaches were.  They mentioned Bo along with Roy Williams and a couple others.  Anyway they said Roy's weakness was that if you could "beat his system you could beat him because he was unwilling to adapt during the game."  They acted like Bo had this ability.  Now I think Bo is a great coach and does a great job of getting the most out of his guys BUT adaptable he is NOT.  I still remember when he stubbornly refused to play zone against MU during our win in Madison and allowed his guys to get beat time after time off the dribble.
Today he didn't do anything to take Cornell out of their comfort zone.  No full court press, no traps, no zone.  Just, here we are, this is how we play if you can beat it then go ahead.
I'm not sure the Badgers could have won anyway Cornell was really hot but they certainly didn't give them anything else to think about.

Rollout-the-Barrel

Can you really blame refs when you lose by twenty?
"We have the blues on the run!"

MarquetteDano

No system is perfect.  Bo's system is very, very good.  No matter how good a system is, you have to have the players.  Look at Williams' results this year at UNC.  Didn't have the players so it didn't work.

People who say Bo can never win a National Championship... I cannot agree with this.  If he ever got the right players, look out.  Chances are he will not win a title because UW-Madison doesn't recruit well enough.  But if they have 2-3 perfect recruiting classes in a row they could be a true contender.

avid1010

Quote from: MarquetteDano on March 21, 2010, 09:33:15 PM
People who say Bo can never win a National Championship... I cannot agree with this.  If he ever got the right players, look out.  Chances are he will not win a title because UW-Madison doesn't recruit well enough.  But if they have 2-3 perfect recruiting classes in a row they could be a true contender.

I'm one of those that says UW will never win a national title because their system does not allow them to recruit well enough, nor do I think their system allows them to play well from behind.  I always feel their system makes average  players good and great players good, so they will always be good but never great.  It's perfect for MU.  You have a coach in Bo that isn't going anywhere, and we rarely have to compete with him for recruits.  If he was landing the Diener's, Novak's, Mathew's, etc...  MU wouldn't be where they are now.

Doris Burkes Thong

Quote from: avid1010 on March 21, 2010, 09:59:42 PM
I'm one of those that says UW will never win a national title because their system does not allow them to recruit well enough, nor do I think their system allows them to play well from behind.  I always feel their system makes average  players good and great players good, so they will always be good but never great.  It's perfect for MU.  You have a coach in Bo that isn't going anywhere, and we rarely have to compete with him for recruits.  If he was landing the Diener's, Novak's, Mathew's, etc...  MU wouldn't be where they are now.

Boy, you are right on. Well said avid.

MUBurrow

QuoteI always feel their system makes average  players good and great players good, so they will always be good but never great. 

+1

I think the most valuable thought experiment is to ask what kind of players would constitute a great recruiting class for Bo?  His system since his UW extension days is predicated on essentially the same types of players he gets now.  Its similar to Iowa getting Horizon players the past couple years. Bo just gets the best of the average fellas to go to Madison.  Not only do the best players in the mold of slashers and swingmen and scorers not want to play in Bo's system, but the system also hides those talents in the guys he does get.

goodgreatgrand

Quote from: tower912 on March 21, 2010, 06:30:48 PM
For the nth time, Bo lost today because he did not have a plan B.    All he has is his system.     When a team is ready for his system and beats it, he has nothing to fall back on.    He can only win one way.     There are no adjustments.    That is why he can do well in conference, because he can go 12-6 and have a successful year.    In a one-and-done format, having only one way to play will eventuallly get you beat.   But at least you will get beat the right way.   

Hasnt Boeheim run the same defense for 34 years? 4 final fours, 1 NC.

Hasnt Phil Jackson run the same triangle offense since he's been with the Lakers?

Every coach runs a certain "system." To say he coach doesnt make adjustment is just plain naive. He wouldnt be coaching a B10 program if he didnt adjust during timeouts or halftime. Maybe his players arent executing properly...? You would have no way of knowing unless your head is inside the timeout huddle.

avid1010

Quote from: goodgreatgrand on March 21, 2010, 11:08:11 PM
Hasnt Boeheim run the same defense for 34 years? 4 final fours, 1 NC.

Hasnt Phil Jackson run the same triangle offense since he's been with the Lakers?

Every coach runs a certain "system." To say he coach doesnt make adjustment is just plain naive. He wouldnt be coaching a B10 program if he didnt adjust during timeouts or halftime. Maybe his players arent executing properly...? You would have no way of knowing unless your head is inside the timeout huddle.

I had my ears around Bo Ryan plenty of times, and his system, like any, has its positives and negatives.  Everyone on this board will agree that Bo gets as much out of his players' abilities as any coach in D1.  So, if that's the case, why don't more teams play his style of ball and run the swing?  To try to equate the style of basketball Bo plays to a zone defense or an NBA offense is ridiculous.  Bo's system is about making reads, not adjustments.  If they get in a situation where they can no longer use 35 seconds of the shot clock they're in trouble. 

marquetteff03

Cornell's system looked pretty good yesterday.  ::)

It is my opinion that it was not the Badgers offensive system it was their lack of being able to stop Cornell. They average giving up 54 pts, they gave up 87!!

The Badgers looked lost and were completely outhustled on every play. Dare I say it? Outcoached?

GGGG

Quote from: Michaelindz on March 22, 2010, 07:35:19 AM
Cornell's system looked pretty good yesterday.  ::)

It is my opinion that it was not the Badgers offensive system it was their lack of being able to stop Cornell. They average giving up 54 pts, they gave up 87!!


Yep.  They scored 69 points today.  When Wisconsin scores 69 points, they pretty much will win that game 95% of the time.  The problem today is that they gave up 87.  You can denigrate the system all you want, but when you play defense that poorly, no system is going to be able to make adjustments and come back against that.

As mentioned in another thread, Bo has successfully recruited a number top 100 players.  However, he likes to fill his classes out early - he already has two verbals for 2011 and is on the short list for 6'11" Marshall Plumlee - a 4 star with the brothers who play at Duke.  He doesn't seem to have a lot of interest in going balls out for the higher rated guys.

VegasWarrior77

Doug Gottlieb was saying this morning that two good coaches got out coached over the weekend - Bill Self and Bo Ryan.  He talked about Self's staff not having a good game plan for UNI and Bo Ryan not making adjustments to try and stop Cornell.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein

M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS

Cornell had the perfect game plan Vs UW.  Play a pesky trap, not really designed to force a turnover but make your burn clock.  This reduced the number of times uw got to run through the swing offense.  After running the trap fall back to a sagging man to man or zone which eliminated the affectiveness of the swing.  As has been said, UW does not have a counter to this.  Furthermore, I would expect cornell to attempt a similar thing against Kentucky.  Once again employing the half court trap, not to turn over Kentucky but to all but eliminate the fast break and force kentucky to diagnose the trap and get into a half court offensive game.  Of course if Cornell isnt scoring this will be very difficult to accomplish.  kentucky on the other hand will be much more comfortable attempting to score with 20-25 seconds to run their offense vs UW in that same situation.

Brewtown Andy

Quote from: Michaelindz on March 22, 2010, 07:35:19 AM
Cornell's system looked pretty good yesterday.  ::)

It is my opinion that it was not the Badgers offensive system it was their lack of being able to stop Cornell. They average giving up 54 pts, they gave up 87!!
In all fairness, Cornell was crazy efficient yesterday, averaging 1.4 points per possession.
Twitter - @brewtownandy
Anonymous Eagle

MUBurrow

Good analysis Blender.  I think the UK game will highlight some of UW/Bo's perpetual problems.  Not only will UK be more comfortable running abbreviated half court sets and taking the first available path to the basket (although they seemed to pop a lot of jumpers for a team of so-so shooters vs. Wake) but I am also skeptical as to how well that 3/4-full court trap will work on UK anyway.  They have a couple of one man press breakers that UW doesn't and guys like John Wall or Bledsoe might try to get out and run with Cousins despite the pressure.

Not to say that comparing UW to UK is a perfect analysis of the different systems (considering UK's out of this world recruiting class from last year). However I think that UK's ability to recruit great athletes and then adjust on the fly will shine over UW's system that recruits mediocre athletes who, by no fault of their own, can't combine to adjust to a variety of pressure and athleticism.

ChicosBailBonds

Quote from: Rollout-the-Barrel on March 21, 2010, 09:25:33 PM
Can you really blame refs when you lose by twenty?

Some did, but most didn't.


I loved Steve Lavin's comments, I need to get the video.  "Cornell took Bo Ryan's team to the woodshed"





Mayor McCheese

The problem yesterday for the Badgers was Trevon Hughes decided he was done playing basketball in red and white... as he played in my eyes the worst game of basketball I have seen him play in quite some time.

I talked about this earlier (made a thread about it around 2 months ago) about Bo's system.  It will win a lot of games, because it frustrates the hell out of most teams.  What kills Bo, is two things, a team that gets hot (like Cornell) or a ridiculously athletic / skilled team (like Kentucky would have been next round)...

Yes, you could say this about every team, but it is no secret as to why Bo's Badgers make it to round 2 or sweet sixteen every year and get beat.  Any time they run into an extremely skilled athletic team, they would get stomped.  Washington would have beaten them, I am confident that Marquette would have beat them at the end of the year.  His system is designed to work in a conference like the Big Ten, a conference in which you get 2 wins from NW, PSU, Iowa, Michigan, Indiana  .. and then split with MSU, Purdue, IL, Minnesota .. and you got 12 conf wins.  To get 10 wins in the Big Ten is extremely easy, because every year you get to play teams like NW and Iowa and Penn St twice.  Yes the BE has cupcakes, but you aren't guarenteed two games with them.  Bo also runs the refs better than any coach I have seen, and when he doesn't get his way, he blows up at them (see yesterday).

And yes, reading the Badger board, they have been blaming the refs, those posts have been deleted for the most part, but hell.. you lose by 18... can't blame the refs

And you can say that they outperform MU every year, and its close to true... however what makes me proud to be a Marquette fan, is MU has a bigger UPSIDE then Bucky.  If your satisfied with maximum sweet sixteen, for sure 2nd round, then be a Badger fan... if you want more, be a Marquette fan.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/NCAA/dayone&sportCat=ncb

pure genius stuff by Bill Simmons, remember to read day 2

MarquetteDano

Quote from: Mayor McCheese on March 22, 2010, 01:38:43 PM
The problem yesterday for the Badgers was Trevon Hughes decided he was done playing basketball in red and white... as he played in my eyes the worst game of basketball I have seen him play in quite some time.

I talked about this earlier (made a thread about it around 2 months ago) about Bo's system.  It will win a lot of games, because it frustrates the hell out of most teams.  What kills Bo, is two things, a team that gets hot (like Cornell) or a ridiculously athletic / skilled team (like Kentucky would have been next round)...

Yes, you could say this about every team, but it is no secret as to why Bo's Badgers make it to round 2 or sweet sixteen every year and get beat.  Any time they run into an extremely skilled athletic team, they would get stomped.  Washington would have beaten them, I am confident that Marquette would have beat them at the end of the year.  His system is designed to work in a conference like the Big Ten, a conference in which you get 2 wins from NW, PSU, Iowa, Michigan, Indiana  .. and then split with MSU, Purdue, IL, Minnesota .. and you got 12 conf wins.  To get 10 wins in the Big Ten is extremely easy, because every year you get to play teams like NW and Iowa and Penn St twice.  Yes the BE has cupcakes, but you aren't guarenteed two games with them.  Bo also runs the refs better than any coach I have seen, and when he doesn't get his way, he blows up at them (see yesterday).

Good basketball is good basketball.  If UW played in the ACC or Big Tweleve this year they still would have made the dance with a decent seed.  You get a decent seed with a good basketball team..... you have a chance at the Final Four.  Bo does not have the players right now.  He may never have the players.

However, original point was about the system can only take him so far.  The system is not the issue.  If Bo and his coaches were dynamite recruiters no one would be talking about the system since they would probably would have made the Final Four by now.  Look at Georgetown... not the most interesting system to sell a recuit but they get talent.  Good enough to make the Final Four in 2007.  I don't see why UW-Madison would be any different if they could get the players.

GGGG

Quote from: MarquetteDano on March 22, 2010, 01:51:45 PM
Good basketball is good basketball.  If UW played in the ACC or Big Tweleve this year they still would have made the dance with a decent seed.  You get a decent seed with a good basketball team..... you have a chance at the Final Four.  Bo does not have the players right now.  He may never have the players.

However, original point was about the system can only take him so far.  The system is not the issue.  If Bo and his coaches were dynamite recruiters no one would be talking about the system since they would probably would have made the Final Four by now.  Look at Georgetown... not the most interesting system to sell a recuit but they get talent.  Good enough to make the Final Four in 2007.  I don't see why UW-Madison would be any different if they could get the players.


Right...and the idea that "the system" prevents Bo from getting the players is a false one.  He doesn't get the players because he doesn't really like recruiting all that much.

LON

I like how the JS Online blog has about 400 different posts and a TON of them are calling for Bo's head...




LON

Quote from: MarquetteDano on March 22, 2010, 01:51:45 PM
Good basketball is good basketball.  If UW played in the ACC or Big Tweleve this year they still would have made the dance with a decent seed.  You get a decent seed with a good basketball team..... you have a chance at the Final Four.  Bo does not have the players right now.  He may never have the players.

However, original point was about the system can only take him so far.  The system is not the issue.  If Bo and his coaches were dynamite recruiters no one would be talking about the system since they would probably would have made the Final Four by now.  Look at Georgetown... not the most interesting system to sell a recuit but they get talent.  Good enough to make the Final Four in 2007.  I don't see why UW-Madison would be any different if they could get the players.

Also located in DC.  Not Madison, WI with a bunch of homers from Antigo.

/I'm from Wisconsin, just speaking tongue-in-cheek

ChicosBailBonds


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