Crean Article on espn.com

[MU_4_Life]

Is Tom Crean on the clock?

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/2558/is-tom-crean-on-the-clock

[syscokid]

IU fans growing impatient!

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/2558/is-tom-crean-on-the-clock

[Tugg Speedman]

He should be on the clock, his recruiting sucks.  As the story says, he still does not have a top 25 recruiting class this year despite having playing time to hand out. (MU #18)

Look at Memphis, one could argue that Cal left "almost" as big a mess as IU had (again, "almost") yet it took Pastner about 15 minutes to reload.  Crean has been there almost two years and is still firing blanks.

[mviale]

Its Indiana!

[77ncaachamps]

Crean has been there almost two years and is still firing blanks.

[ChicosBailBonds]

He should be on the clock, his recruiting sucks.  As the story says, he still does not have a top 25 recruiting class this year despite having playing time to hand out. (MU #18)

Look at Memphis, one could argue that Cal left "almost" as big a mess as IU had (again, "almost") yet it took Pastner about 15 minutes to reload.  Crean has been there almost two years and is still firing blanks.

Do you think that Memphis allows certain kids in that IU doesn't?  Just asking.

I think people need to re-read the article....sure looks to me like he's saying he's going to get many years to prove this out.

I'm looking forward to collecting on my bet from Rocky.

[mviale]

Meanwhile, Marquette is 12-8 with 8 losses by an average margin of 3 points.  Nice Upgrade

[4everwarriors]

I'm certain as time goes on, IU fans will grow increasingly tired of the same old rhetoric and of Crean tooting his own greg.

[Tom Crean's Tanning Bed]

He should be on the clock, his recruiting sucks.  As the story says, he still does not have a top 25 recruiting class this year despite having playing time to hand out. (MU #18)

Look at Memphis, one could argue that Cal left "almost" as big a mess as IU had (again, "almost") yet it took Pastner about 15 minutes to reload.  Crean has been there almost two years and is still firing blanks.

In fairness to Crean, he had a much worse mess than what Calipari left at Memphis for Pastner.  Crean was left with 1 scholarship player and a couple of walk-ons.  Memphis lost a recruiting class and Tyreke Evans, but still had some talent on that roster.  I'm still not sure Pastner can coach, but he is one helluva recruiter, and talent these days is huge.

The thing befuddling me with Crean, though, is how was Crean able to get 15-14 out of his first two Marquette teams with arguably less talent, yet is struggling so badly with this year's Indiana team (I don't count last year because John Wooden wouldn't have gone .500 with Crean's Indiana roster in 2008-2009). He's pulling in similarly ranked recruiting classes at IU that he did at Marquette so far. and that will probably improve a bit. Maybe not top 5-10 classes, but probably a top 15 class within the next year or two.

If I'm an IU fan, I'm more disconcerted with how he's utilized the talent he has this year than his recruiting at this point.  They should not be losing home games to Boston University and Loyola Maryland and getting blown out by 15 vs. Iowa.

[Ron Paul]

Do you think that Memphis allows certain kids in that IU doesn't?  Just asking.

I think people need to re-read the article....sure looks to me like he's saying he's going to get many years to prove this out.

I'm looking forward to collecting on my bet from Rocky.

I'm not sure what you read in that article, to me it sounds like fans are already getting upset.  Always seems odd to me when people promise they will be upset by this time next year.  That being said, his expectations aren't through the roof, apparently IU fans have lowered their aim a little bit.

[Tugg Speedman]

IU faithful expected Crean to do what Cal did at Kentucky ... April 1, 2008 announces he's going to IU.  April 2 he had the #1 recruiting class in the country and would have to turn away McDonald AAs.

And how did Crean go 15-14 with less talent in his first two years at MU?  Answer ... Darrin Horn!

[ChicosBailBonds]

In fairness to Crean, he had a much worse mess than what Calipari left at Memphis for Pastner.  Crean was left with 1 scholarship player and a couple of walk-ons.  Memphis lost a recruiting class and Tyreke Evans, but still had some talent on that roster.  I'm still not sure Pastner can coach, but he is one helluva recruiter, and talent these days is huge.

The thing befuddling me with Crean, though, is how was Crean able to get 15-14 out of his first two Marquette teams with arguably less talent, yet is struggling so badly with this year's Indiana team (I don't count last year because John Wooden wouldn't have gone .500 with Crean's Indiana roster in 2008-2009). He's pulling in similarly ranked recruiting classes at IU that he did at Marquette so far. and that will probably improve a bit. Maybe not top 5-10 classes, but probably a top 15 class within the next year or two.

If I'm an IU fan, I'm more disconcerted with how he's utilized the talent he has this year than his recruiting at this point.  They should not be losing home games to Boston University and Loyola Maryland and getting blown out by 15 vs. Iowa.

You are correct that for the first guy to say they are almost the same situation is laughable.  IU returned not only just one player, but he averaged less than 2 points per game and played a TOTAL of 36 minutes all year.  Memphis returned so much more, plus actual DI players in recruits that the comparison is ridiculous, even if disguised as "almost" the same. 

In my opinion, the difference between Crean in years 1 and 2 at MU vs where he is at IU is two fold.

1)  The IU team is almost all freshmen and sophomores, including his best player with a blown out knee that can't play.  His MU team had some veterans on that team including John Cliff and Brian Wardle.  He has no such leadership with that type of experience on this IU team.

2)  MU was in CUSA at the time, not like he is now in the Big Ten.  Going up against SLU, Southern Miss, Houston and Tulane is different than having to face Michigan State, Wisconsin, Illinois, Ohio State, etc.  So the record will suffer.

The university is on the hook with him for a lot of years.  They'll be NIT next year and NCAA the year after.  I'll collect my debt from Rocky in the process.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm not sure what you read in that article, to me it sounds like fans are already getting upset.  Always seems odd to me when people promise they will be upset by this time next year.  That being said, his expectations aren't through the roof, apparently IU fans have lowered their aim a little bit.

Really...because one guy, Matt Snyder says so?  Who are all these fans?  At the end of the day, the administration there will decide.

And no Another84, IU fans not only didn't expect Crean to do what Calipari did, they don't WANT him to do that.  IU has a very proud tradition of doing things the RIGHT WAY. This is why they were so scarred by what Sampson had done.  They hate UK for how they have done things the last 50 years.  The reason why Crean was brought in there was to win and to win the right way.

I'm an alum, I worked in the IU Athletic Department. I know intimately how it works.  Your comments about Memphis and UK are so foreign to how IU runs things, you're totally out in left field with those comments. TOTALLY!

[Tugg Speedman]

You are correct that for the first guy to say they are almost the same situation is laughable.  IU returned not only just one player, but he averaged less than 2 points per game and played a TOTAL of 36 minutes all year.  Memphis returned so much more, plus actual DI players in recruits that the comparison is ridiculous, even if disguised as "almost" the same. 

IU returned a lot more talent.  The problem is that talent was throwing plants at Crean.

[77ncaachamps]

Having read some IU boards, there is a discontent contingent out there, but most are just pleased to have someone stable at the helm.

Revisit the situation 3 years from now.
- If IU can't shake the middle of the pack, then the boo birds will be more evident.
- If some of his assistants depart for better positions, then maybe his team will become weaker...less cohesive. Much like at MU when assistants Strohm (W Kentucky), Horn (W Kentucky), Kowalczyk (UWGB), and Stephens (MSU) left, there were huge voids to fill.

[ChicosBailBonds]

IU returned a lot more talent.  The problem is that talent was throwing plants at Crean.

Are you devoid of facts today.

Crean's first year they returned ONE PLAYER who played 36 minutes total and averaged less than 2 points.  How is that "a LOT MORE TALENT" than Pastner had at Memphis in his first year when Pastner returned:

Doneal Mack started 32 games last year....that already blows your argument to hell

Plus Duke transfer Eliott Williams that didn't have to sit out a year due to his mom's illness.

You're reaching.  No way in hell IU in year one had more talent than Pastner's Memphis year one, it's not even close.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Having read some IU boards, there is a discontent contingent out there, but most are just pleased to have someone stable at the helm.

Revisit the situation 3 years from now.
- If IU can't shake the middle of the pack, then the boo birds will be more evident.
- If some of his assistants depart for better positions, then maybe his team will become weaker...less cohesive. Much like at MU when assistants Strohm (W Kentucky), Horn (W Kentucky), Kowalczyk (UWGB), and Stephens (MSU) left, there were huge voids to fill.

Don't judge a fanbase by a message board.   

[Tugg Speedman]

Are you devoid of facts today.

Crean's first year they returned ONE PLAYER who played 36 minutes total and averaged less than 2 points.  How is that "a LOT MORE TALENT" than Pastner had at Memphis in his first year when Pastner returned:

Doneal Mack started 32 games last year....that already blows your argument to hell

Plus Duke transfer Eliott Williams that didn't have to sit out a year due to his mom's illness.

You're reaching.  No way in hell IU in year one had more talent than Pastner's Memphis year one, it's not even close.

I wasn't comparing IU to Memphis in this example, that's you defending Crean.  I was comparing it to your statement.  Crean dismissed a lot of returning players including those that threw plants at his head.

It wasn't as bleak as you make it sound.  Crean used his position and grace period to clean house.  Was that the right thing to do?  Maybe but he's paying the price now.  But, let's not defend his decision to send players packing as "he had no one."  He did but sent them away.

[Tom Crean's Tanning Bed]

I wasn't comparing IU to Memphis in this example, that's you defending Crean.  I was comparing it to your statement.  Crean dismissed a lot of returning players including those that threw plants at his head.

It wasn't as bleak as you make it sound.  Crean used his position and grace period to clean house.  Was that the right thing to do?  Maybe but he's paying the price now.  But, let's not defend his decision to send players packing as "he had no one."  He did but sent them away.

AnotherMU84, I don't like Crean either, but let's be realistic here:  do you realize the type of crap he had to deal with when he got to IU? 

Some of the stuff that came out after Crean left with the IU program (which made us scratch our heads even more as to why he left) included allegations that most of the team was using drugs during the 2007-2008 season (from Eric Gordon and D.J. White), several players would have been academically ineligible (remember, IU lost scholarships from the APR rating they had under Sampson). and of course, the bizarre Eli Holman incident (of which I think there probably is some culpability on Crean). And there was also talk that IU was facing big-time NCAA sanctions, which luckily for them was only a slap on the wrist because they bought out Sampson.

Crean had to clean house.  Because if he didn't, I'm sure the NCAA would have done it for him slapping guys with drug/academic suspensions.  I'll give him credit for doing that there and holding character in such high esteem during his tenure at Marquette.

[muhoosier260]

Don't judge a fanbase by a message board.   

But go to the heartland and learn that II fans are learning the same lesson that marquette fans learned. He's gone at the end of 2012.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I wasn't comparing IU to Memphis in this example, that's you defending Crean.  I was comparing it to your statement.  Crean dismissed a lot of returning players including those that threw plants at his head.

It wasn't as bleak as you make it sound.  Crean used his position and grace period to clean house.  Was that the right thing to do?  Maybe but he's paying the price now.  But, let's not defend his decision to send players packing as "he had no one."  He did but sent them away.

You obviously have no clue what was going on in that Athletic Department.  I do.  He had NO CHOICE but to kick off most of those players.

[ChicosBailBonds]

But go to the heartland and learn that II fans are learning the same lesson that marquette fans learned. He's gone at the end of 2012.

What lesson was that....that we had the 2nd greatest run of any coach in MU history?  He may be gone by 2012, but I doubt it.  If so, I'll still collect on my bet.  A lot of you have absolutely no idea how bad it was inside of the athletic department and what had to be done.  The IU administration knows that.  He doesn't have a leash forever, but he's got a damn long one considering what had to be done.  That's why they threw a few extra million and years on his contract before his first season even started.  The stories are really bad what was going on over there under Sampson.  Dreadful

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

In general, Indiana fans are a lot more knowledgable basketball fans than MU fans and they do not suffer fools gladly. His schtick is wearing thin already. The purposeful pacing, the awkward and overzealous sideline "demeanor," the below average recruiting, the complete absence of even an ounce of charisma.

Do not doubt for a second that he regrets his decision to leave his cushy lair in Milwaukee. My guess? He'll be gone from Bloomington before Buzz leaves Milwaukee.

[HoopsMalone]

If Josh Selby end up at IU, it saves Crean.  If he doesn't get Selby, then that PG from Indianapolis, Maquis Teague, is a must get for Crean.  If he loses out on both of those kids, then the fan base loses patience.  Until then, Crean is probably safe.  That kid Creek is really good and IU will continue to improve. 

IU fans should not be too surpised though. He never had good back to back recruiting classes and he is not going to out coach anyone during the games, so they are going to be games where you lose to Iowa (albeit by 15 at home is pretty crazy). 

[muhoosier260]

What lesson was that....that we had the 2nd greatest run of any coach in MU history?  He may be gone by 2012, but I doubt it.  If so, I'll still collect on my bet.  A lot of you have absolutely no idea how bad it was inside of the athletic department and what had to be done.  The IU administration knows that.  He doesn't have a leash forever, but he's got a damn long one considering what had to be done.  That's why they threw a few extra million and years on his contract before his first season even started.  The stories are really bad what was going on over there under Sampson.  Dreadful

The lesson is that he's all sizzle and no steak. Yes, he served Marquette well. Yes, we did well, very well. At a certain point it was time for him to move on though, although I didn't realize it at the time, but now I think MU is better off with Buzz. I'll agree he has a long leash, but let's not forget this is IU, where patience from the community is commensurate with tournament wins.

Edit: I also thought the part in the article referencing Crean's addiction to diet coke was pretty funny.