What bigs?

[MU83]

I find it interesting that the Marquette program, and Buzz in particular, is continually being criticized for not signing the elite inside players.  As a transplanted Wisconsinite now residing in Indianapolis, I have the opportunity to watch some of the best high school basketball talent in the country, and guess what; there are just not that many skilled inside players playing the game.  Many high schools (if they're lucky) have kids that are 6'-4" or 6'5" playing center, with the balance of their lineup being smaller.  The number of talented kids 6'-8" and taller is not enough to fill the rosters of the top 30 or 40 programs in the country.  Programs like Marquette have to decide if they want to take talented smaller players or fill the roster with the remaining tall kids that can't play.  I believe that Buzz is trying to get the best players he can, and yes, we'd all like to see the next 6'-10" stud sign with Marquette.  However, the reality is that there aren't enough of them to go around.

[GregClausenForever]

Absolutely.  It's a perennial classic to complain about our lack of size, but frankly most tall players are not very skilled at age 18.  If Maymon stuck around and/or Otule didn't get injured -- and either of them ultimately gave us 20-25 good minutes, we would have enough size to get by. 

A solid college program needs at least two guys over 6'7" who can push people around in the lane, but a true center or even a true 4 is not a requisite.

I'm very satisfied with the outlook for next year; obviously, this year we're even more undersized than we planned.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Agree entirely.  Very few quality bigs out there and everyone wants them.  I hope Buzz can land some, he needs to continue to try, but the supply and demand curve on big men is econ 101.

[79Warrior]

Absolutely.  It's a perennial classic to complain about our lack of size, but frankly most tall players are not very skilled at age 18.  If Maymon stuck around and/or Otule didn't get injured -- and either of them ultimately gave us 20-25 good minutes, we would have enough size to get by. 

A solid college program needs at least two guys over 6'7" who can push people around in the lane, but a true center or even a true 4 is not a requisite.

I'm very satisfied with the outlook for next year; obviously, this year we're even more undersized than we planned.

We lose Lazar, our most effective player up front? Just who replaces him next year to have you very satisfied?

[HoopsMalone]

Hopefully Otule and Mbao can give Barro-like contributions next year.  Losing Liam hurt a lot, but if MU can get three-star projects coming in every other year we should be able to survive. 

[RawdogDX]

I find it interesting that the Marquette program, and Buzz in particular, is continually being criticized for not signing the elite inside players.  As a transplanted Wisconsinite now residing in Indianapolis, I have the opportunity to watch some of the best high school basketball talent in the country, and guess what; there are just not that many skilled inside players playing the game.  Many high schools (if they're lucky) have kids that are 6'-4" or 6'5" playing center, with the balance of their lineup being smaller.  The number of talented kids 6'-8" and taller is not enough to fill the rosters of the top 30 or 40 programs in the country.  Programs like Marquette have to decide if they want to take talented smaller players or fill the roster with the remaining tall kids that can't play.  I believe that Buzz is trying to get the best players he can, and yes, we'd all like to see the next 6'-10" stud sign with Marquette.  However, the reality is that there aren't enough of them to go around.

I agree with everything you said except for the bold. 
Most fans here have seen that buzz has been able to recruit size, they just get hurt/leave/don't play even though they were highly ranked.  If you want to see some people freaking out at a coach about a lack of size you'll have to go back a few years.

[downtown85]

Sorry I am not buying big man shortage argument.  I think there are enough big men to go around for MU to land one top 100 bruiser every year or two. 

There are 29 PFs and Cs who are 6-8 and taller in Scouts top 100 for the 2010 recruiting class.  Only a few of those chose UCLA, UNC, Kansas and Kentucky.  Even "guard U" Villanova landed 6-9, 230lb C Markus Kennedy (79th best overall player and ranked the #12 center).  Xavier landed 6-8 PF Jordan Latham (ranked 87 on scout).  DeShonte Riley would probably be getting some serious minutes if he had chosen MU but is firmly planted on bench a Syracuse. 

MU has been a pretty consistent top 25 program, why wouldn't we be able to land one of the top 25 bigs at least every second year?  Why can a program like Syracuse stack them like cordwood on the bench with no promise of playing time?  Whearas, MU can offer a ton of playing time with great complementary players but can't, in the end, get one to commit?  Is it purely bad luck?

All that being said, I think Buzz will get it done in this area eventually, i.e., he will get us some highly rated bigs in the next couple of recruiting classes.  I was just hoping he could get it done sooner rather than later. 
 

[muhoops1]

Look at the bigs currently on the roster for some mid majors.  They could at least contribute at MU:

UNI's 53 Eglseder, Jordan 7-0 280 C SR Bellevue, Iowa/Marquette

Seattle University: 45    Garcia, Charles  PF  6-10  230  Jr.  Los Angeles, Calif. (Riverside CC) (Dorsey HS) 

Seattle University: 33    Gilmore, Gavin  F  6-8  220  So.  Pasco, Wash. (Pasco Senior HS) 

Bradley University: 21    Will Egolf  F/C  6-9  232  RSo.  Juneau, Alaska (Douglas H.S.) 

Bradley University: 34    Milos Knezevic  F  6-8  206  Fr.  Las Vegas, Nev. (Liberty H.S.) 
41    Anthony Thompson  C  6-10  215  So.  Houston, Texas (Klein Forest H.S.) 
44    Jordan Prosser  F  6-8  220  Fr.  Goodfield, Ill. (Eureka H.S.) 
54    Sam Singh  F/C  6-9  240  5Sr.  Ozark, Mo. (Ozark H.S.) 

[Rockmic87]

We cant even sign three star bigs, thats how pathetic MU recruiting on bigs has been. There have been a number of bigs out of wisconsin who have signed with UW over MU. We need to hire a big man coach, ie bo ellis, etc. This will allure big men to MU.

[MerrittsMustache]

I agree with a lot of what the previous few posters have said. I don't necessarily think that MU fans are clamoring for an "elite" big man (though it would be nice to have one). MU often faces mismatches because of a complete lack of size. It's too easy to say that there just aren't big guys out there. There are...watch a mid-major game sometime and you'll see plenty of post players who are 6'9"-230lbs or there about. No, they're not future lottery picks or all-conference players, but they have size and can hold their own down low. MU doesn't need Tim Duncan in the post to be an improved team - they just need size combined with some semblance of basketball skill.

It's interesting so many people feel that MU really misses Liam. Did any of these people actually see him play?

[avid1010]

I agree with a lot of what the previous few posters have said. I don't necessarily think that MU fans are clamoring for an "elite" big man (though it would be nice to have one). MU often faces mismatches because of a complete lack of size. It's too easy to say that there just aren't big guys out there. There are...watch a mid-major game sometime and you'll see plenty of post players who are 6'9"-230lbs or there about. No, they're not future lottery picks or all-conference players, but they have size and can hold their own down low. MU doesn't need Tim Duncan in the post to be an improved team - they just need size combined with some semblance of basketball skill.

It's interesting so many people feel that MU really misses Liam. Did any of these people actually see him play?

I saw Liam play a bit.  Not enough to make any kind of knowledgeable statement, but he had all the physical attributes you'd want for a BEAST center.  I think many people feel like they missed out on something because of the comments Buzz made about the way he played in practice. 

I see teams develop big men in offenses similar to MU's often.  The problem is Buzz hasn't even been able to put a big man on the court that he's worked to develop.  I liked the growth I was seeing from J-May and I like the way Butler plays down low despite his size for that position.  My hope is that Buzz can develop a big or two and that will open the door to others.

[Josey Wales]

I agree with a lot of what the previous few posters have said. I don't necessarily think that MU fans are clamoring for an "elite" big man (though it would be nice to have one). MU often faces mismatches because of a complete lack of size. It's too easy to say that there just aren't big guys out there. There are...watch a mid-major game sometime and you'll see plenty of post players who are 6'9"-230lbs or there about. No, they're not future lottery picks or all-conference players, but they have size and can hold their own down low. MU doesn't need Tim Duncan in the post to be an improved team - they just need size combined with some semblance of basketball skill.

It's interesting so many people feel that MU really misses Liam. Did any of these people actually see him play?

never saw him play in a game, but i saw him working out and shooting around. I was blown away by how strong and athletic he was for a 7'0 guy. He moved around like an athletic small forward, and he could do something like 40 pull ups.

[GGGG]

We cant even sign three star bigs, thats how pathetic MU recruiting on bigs has been. There have been a number of bigs out of wisconsin who have signed with UW over MU. We need to hire a big man coach, ie bo ellis, etc. This will allure big men to MU.

What Wisconsin H.S. bigs do you want?  Evan Anderson, who is averaging 10 ppg as a senior in a weak conference?  J.P. Gavinski, whose been stapled to the bench since the time he got on campus?

[willie warrior]

Not buying the lame argument that there are only a few bigs to go around every year and they are sucked up by yhr top teams.

If we aspire to move to the next level, then we have to get two bigs each year, and at least one must be a top 50-100.

No excuses.

[GOMU1104]

It comes down to development, elite D1 ready bigs are in short supply.  Until we have a big that has some success and is integrated into the offense, it is going to be hard to land better ones.  MU was on that path with Liam, and hopefully Otule and Mbao develop into nice players.

It is very easy for other teams to negative recruit against MU, when recruiting bigs.

It will likely continue to be under the radar and JUCO guys. Buzz has been on the road alot lately, and I am pretty sure trying to find a couple 4/5 types for next year has been a priority.

[77ncaachamps]

Look at the bigs currently on the roster for some mid majors.  They could at least contribute at MU:

UNI's 53 Eglseder, Jordan 7-0 280 C SR Bellevue, Iowa/Marquette

Seattle University: 45    Garcia, Charles  PF  6-10  230  Jr.  Los Angeles, Calif. (Riverside CC) (Dorsey HS) 

Seattle University: 33    Gilmore, Gavin  F  6-8  220  So.  Pasco, Wash. (Pasco Senior HS) 

Bradley University: 21    Will Egolf  F/C  6-9  232  RSo.  Juneau, Alaska (Douglas H.S.) 

Bradley University: 34    Milos Knezevic  F  6-8  206  Fr.  Las Vegas, Nev. (Liberty H.S.) 
41    Anthony Thompson  C  6-10  215  So.  Houston, Texas (Klein Forest H.S.) 
44    Jordan Prosser  F  6-8  220  Fr.  Goodfield, Ill. (Eureka H.S.) 
54    Sam Singh  F/C  6-9  240  5Sr.  Ozark, Mo. (Ozark H.S.) 

A few more:

Omar Samhan, St. Mary's (CA) 6-11 C: 21.6 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 2.5 bpg
Jerome Jordan, Tulsa 7-0 C: 14.3 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 2.8 bpg
Luke Babbitt, Nevada 6-9 F: 21.5 ppg, 10 rpg, 40.8% 3pt%
Ike Okoye, Boise State 6-9 C: 13.3 ppg, 8 rpg, 1.9 bpg


Looking back, Jarrod Lovette wasn't an elite center but gave solid efforts each night. We could use someone like Jarrod who's active on the boards offensively and defensively.

[NavinRJohnson]

If we aspire to move to the next level, then we have to get two bigs each year, and at least one must be a top 50-100.

No excuses.

How many teams in the BE have managed to do this? UConn, Syracuse, and Gergetown come to mind. Any others?

[Rockmic87]

What Wisconsin H.S. bigs do you want?  Evan Anderson, who is averaging 10 ppg as a senior in a weak conference?  J.P. Gavinski, whose been stapled to the bench since the time he got on campus?

Yea sure, at least it would give us some height on the floor, and its better than having none! Brian butch, Ketan Nankvil (sp?), Greg stiemsma would have been nice too.

[Rockmic87]

We also have struggled to recruit other Midwestern Bigs, i.e. in the Chicago area. Bigs should be picking MU over Depaul! i.e. Koshwal!

[nyg]

How many teams in the BE have managed to do this? UConn, Syracuse, and Gergetown come to mind. Any others?

The following additional BE schools have a least one competent bigman, some of whom were highly ranked:

Cincy - Gates
UL - Samuels
USF - Gilchrist
ND - Harongody
Depaul - Koshwal
SH - Garcia
WVA - Ebanks (yes he is a forward, but 6ft 8)

MU - Otule and Mbao.  Projects, simple as that. Can't recall if they were even in the top 500 rankings. Really hope one can provide anything, but I am skeptical to the highest degree on both.

[GGGG]

A few more:

Omar Samhan, St. Mary's (CA) 6-11 C: 21.6 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 2.5 bpg
Jerome Jordan, Tulsa 7-0 C: 14.3 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 2.8 bpg
Luke Babbitt, Nevada 6-9 F: 21.5 ppg, 10 rpg, 40.8% 3pt%
Ike Okoye, Boise State 6-9 C: 13.3 ppg, 8 rpg, 1.9 bpg

OK...you do realize that about a year ago, we thought we'd have two, 7 foot (Liam, Mbao) and two near 7 foot (Otule, Clark) by the 2010-11 year right?  Buzz has recruited serviceable big men.

[GGGG]

Yea sure, at least it would give us some height on the floor, and its better than having none! Brian butch, Ketan Nankvil (sp?), Greg stiemsma would have been nice too.

Sucky height doesn't help us.  Furthermore, Nankivil isn't a "big."  He plays like Steve Novak...but he's shorter.

Again, Buzz *has* gotten height.  He can't help it that one is an alleged rapist, one had a heart defect, and one got hurt.

[Tom Crean's Tanning Bed]

We also have struggled to recruit other Midwestern Bigs, i.e. in the Chicago area. Bigs should be picking MU over Depaul! i.e. Koshwal!

The reason Koshwal never came to MU were multi-fold.  Academics, for one.  Also, Loren Jackson (Koshwal's HS coach) was not happy with how Barro (another one of Jackson's former players) was used by Crean in his system.

Our best hope for getting the top-rated big that everyone seems to be clamoring for is for Buzz being able to develop one of his current bigs (Otule and Mbao) into a solid player. Once he's able to do that, I think that the recruiting battle for higher-rated post prospects may become a little easier.

[GOMU1104]

The reason Koshwal never came to MU were multi-fold.  Academics, for one.  Also, Loren Jackson (Koshwal's HS coach) was not happy with how Barro (another one of Jackson's former players) was used by Crean in his system.

Our best hope for getting the top-rated big that everyone seems to be clamoring for is for Buzz being able to develop one of his current bigs (Otule and Mbao) into a solid player. Once he's able to do that, I think that the recruiting battle for higher-rated post prospects may become a little easier.

Pretty much sums it all up.

I believe Koshwal's High School (Boys To Men Academy) was in exisetnce for less than 5 years...and that might be a generous estimate.

[bma725]

Not buying the lame argument that there are only a few bigs to go around every year and they are sucked up by yhr top teams.

If we aspire to move to the next level, then we have to get two bigs each year, and at least one must be a top 50-100.

No excuses.

If you get two bigs every year, you'll be doomed to have a team with too many scholarships tied up in bigs.  There isn't a top team in the country that does what you suggest.  No one can afford to have what amounts to 8 big men and 5 perimeter players on their roster each year.  You can't win like that.