Loyola Maryland beats IU on a 4 point play at the end.

[Hards Alumni]

I keep hearing this same "lack of character" argument over and over and over again.

Aside from Hayward admitting that he was miffed that Crean's son won an award at a camp--so miffed in fact that allowed his son go back--nobody seems able to document any actual examples of this "lack of character". 

Usually "lack of character" is evidenced by things like getting caught making NCAA recruiting violations, egregious technical fouls or ejections leading to suspension by the NCAA, getting naked in front of your team, embarrassing videos of the coach kissing coeds at frat parties, getting drunk and disorderly at campus bars, getting arrested for DWI, recruiting players of questionable morals, or giving favors to players who don't cut it in the classroom like having tutors take the tests for them. 

Getting into fistfights with your players might be a sign of lack of character, but as Al proved, that isn't necessarily the case.

To me, a real sign of lack character are those who keep lobbing accusations but don't have anything to back them up.

Except some of us have had personal interactions with the man.

[pbiflyer]

Actually, it was widely reported that Cottingham was on a plane to the WNIT in Denver and Fr. Wild was on a plane to Washington DC.  I don't even think Cottinham or Wild have denied this.  And they both have confirmed that they spoke with Crean later that day.

It was also widely reported that the team met with Crean at his home before he left for the press conference the next morning.  This is not a made-up story that is unconfirmed by anyone else.  I don't think anyone--including the players--deny that the team went out to Crean's home where he told them in person that he was leaving.  

If you want to ignore reality because it makes you feel better about holding a grudge, go right ahead.  But don't expect that others will play along.

So, he met with the players before the press conference. But, AFTER they had already found out he had a new job. And that, Crean blamed onb Joanie being sick.
Bottom line:
Players found out their coach had taken a new job by watching Sports Center.
The Administration found out by checking their voice mail.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think the problem is that you have annointed yourself his public defender

oooo lucky post 777!!!

Perhaps, but when a lynch mob is out with facts not at their side, yes all people need representation, even the douche bags.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You forgot:

4. People who are good judges of character.

Yet you were a KO fan, so did the judgment go out the door during those 5 years?  LOL

[ChicosBailBonds]

Let's cut to the chase, if Crean had handled the departure differently, the same people that hated him would still hate him.   People are using the departure as an excuse, and nothing more.


If Crean had been offered the job, came back to Milwaukee, spoke to the team, etc and said he was leaving and then released it to the public, the haters would still bitch, bash, etc like they do now.  Nothing would have changed.

They would cite the "Family" comments or the tinkering with other jobs or his comments that he was Happy at Marquette.   This is what all coaches do, what all coaches say, and everyone is stuck with their johnson in their hand when the guy leaves (latest case...see Brian Kelly at Cincinnati who said the same exact thing).

The haters hate, that's what they do.  How he left is a convenient excuse.  Hards Alumni says it himself....because they had dealings with the man.  That's the source of it, they just flat out didn't like him.

Why some people can't just own up and say that (4ever has) and call a spade a spade is beyond me.

[79Warrior]

I keep hearing this same "lack of character" argument over and over and over again.

Aside from Hayward admitting that he was miffed that Crean's son won an award at a camp--so miffed in fact that allowed his son go back--nobody seems able to document any actual examples of this "lack of character". 

Usually "lack of character" is evidenced by things like getting caught making NCAA recruiting violations, egregious technical fouls or ejections leading to suspension by the NCAA, getting naked in front of your team, embarrassing videos of the coach kissing coeds at frat parties, getting drunk and disorderly at campus bars, getting arrested for DWI, recruiting players of questionable morals, or giving favors to players who don't cut it in the classroom like having tutors take the tests for them. 

Getting into fistfights with your players might be a sign of lack of character, but as Al proved, that isn't necessarily the case.

To me, a real sign of lack character are those who keep lobbing accusations but don't have anything to back them up.

Agree. There are some who will never let it go and it infests them. Crean is a young guy, they have 10-15 more years of misery. Just wait till TC has some success. Their heads will explode.

[Marquette84]

Except some of us have had personal interactions with the man.

Apparently not, because there there has been exactly one personal interaction that has been shared on this board.  And Hayward was so incensed by it that he sent his own kids back to Crean's camp the next year.

The way people talk about Crean, one would think Hayward should be arrested for child endangerment!

If there are "personal interactions," they've never been shared.  My guess is that, as with Hayward's case, they are so petty that people are embarrassed to even bring them up.

[Marquette84]

So, he met with the players before the press conference. But, AFTER they had already found out he had a new job. And that, Crean blamed onb Joanie being sick.
Bottom line:
Players found out their coach had taken a new job by watching Sports Center.
The Administration found out by checking their voice mail.

You're not dealing with facts.

The fact is that until there was a deal with Indiana, Crean had nothing to discuss with MU.  When he did have a deal, the players were in class and the administrators were on a plane. 

So I'll ask again, given the facts, what SHOULD have been done?

Do you honestly think that this rose to the level where an emergency in-flight call should have been made, or is a "call me as soon as you land" sufficient.

Do you think that this warranted pulling student-athletes out of class?  Or is scheduling a team meeting after class sufficient?

[Chili]

You're not dealing with facts.

The fact is that until there was a deal with Indiana, Crean had nothing to discuss with MU.  When he did have a deal, the players were in class and the administrators were on a plane. 

So I'll ask again, given the facts, what SHOULD have been done?

Do you honestly think that this rose to the level where an emergency in-flight call should have been made, or is a "call me as soon as you land" sufficient.

Do you think that this warranted pulling student-athletes out of class?  Or is scheduling a team meeting after class sufficient?

I know for a fact Dom and others were in their room(s) when they watched Andy Katz on ESPN break the story.

[MU in Miami]

I know for a fact Dom and others were in their room(s) when they watched Andy Katz on ESPN break the story.

That was pretty polite of him to share that info with Andy.  Bravo.

[Chili]

That was pretty polite of him to share that info with Andy.  Bravo.

But hey, Tom Crean is a class act. This was the thing that annoyed me more than anything, leak the fucking story to Katz before telling your seniors to be. What a fucking asshat!

[RawdogDX]

Except some of us have had personal interactions with the man.

The personal interactions I've read about on this board where people complain about TC are almost always related to personality not character.  Many posters don't seem to understand the difference.  

I don't care if the coach carries himself like a used car salesman.  Good, MU was a 95 explorer with 120K miles on it and he sold it.

I don't give a crap if some temp put together a flier in 2004 that TC didn't like and he was short with her.
Good, she probably will do a better job next time.

I also don't care if everytime you saw him smiling and waving to fans you thought it was an act that he was carring out as part of his job requirement.  Good I'm glad he was a good public face of the program.

Don't care if he also was a control freak about the media and did his best to be in the spotlight.
Good, I'm Glad someone from MU was in the spot light.

[RawdogDX]

But hey, Tom Crean is a class act. This was the thing that annoyed me more than anything, leak the fracking story to Katz before telling your seniors to be. What a fracking asshat!

Anything else you want to make up.  There were dozens of people who could have leaked the story.  How many people were involved in contract talks? Shuttling him back to MU? Members of the athletic department?  Chances that TC called katz that night are pretty slim.

[Hards Alumni]

Apparently not, because there there has been exactly one personal interaction that has been shared on this board.  And Hayward was so incensed by it that he sent his own kids back to Crean's camp the next year.

The way people talk about Crean, one would think Hayward should be arrested for child endangerment!

If there are "personal interactions," they've never been shared.  My guess is that, as with Hayward's case, they are so petty that people are embarrassed to even bring them up.

actually, I shared mine in a thread a few months ago.

but thanks for checking before just making up whatever helps your argument.

[Chili]

Anything else you want to make up.  There were dozens of people who could have leaked the story.  How many people were involved in contract talks? Shuttling him back to MU? Members of the athletic department?  Chances that TC called katz that night are pretty slim.

So the fact that Dom watched Andy Katz say Tom Crean would be the next head coach at IU didn't happen? Too bad that it did. For a control freak like Crean to let something like this slip? Come on - don't be such a rube.

[Hards Alumni]

So the fact that Dom watched Andy Katz say Tom Crean would be the next head coach at IU didn't happen? Too bad that it did. For a control freak like Crean to let something like this slip? Come on - don't be such a rube.

yeah, get on the trolley!

[4everwarriors]

Chicos is right. I don't dig the cat or the horse he rode in on.

[DomJamesToTheBasket]

I keep hearing this same "lack of character" argument over and over and over again.

Aside from Hayward admitting that he was miffed that Crean's son won an award at a camp--so miffed in fact that allowed his son go back--nobody seems able to document any actual examples of this "lack of character". 

Usually "lack of character" is evidenced by things like getting caught making NCAA recruiting violations, egregious technical fouls or ejections leading to suspension by the NCAA, getting naked in front of your team, embarrassing videos of the coach kissing coeds at frat parties, getting drunk and disorderly at campus bars, getting arrested for DWI, recruiting players of questionable morals, or giving favors to players who don't cut it in the classroom like having tutors take the tests for them. 

Getting into fistfights with your players might be a sign of lack of character, but as Al proved, that isn't necessarily the case.

To me, a real sign of lack character are those who keep lobbing accusations but don't have anything to back them up.

He did abscond 1.5 years after signing a 10-year contract extension. That contract had him here through the 2016-2017.  Thankfully, TC did not honor his contract.  Buzz > TC

[Lennys Tap]

Perhaps, but when a lynch mob is out with facts not at their side, yes all people need representation, even the douche bags.

Your nobility is only exceeded by your humility.

[RawdogDX]

So the fact that Dom watched Andy Katz say Tom Crean would be the next head coach at IU didn't happen? Too bad that it did. For a control freak like Crean to let something like this slip? Come on - don't be such a rube.

Yes andy katz knew before dom.  That happened.  How do you know who told katz?  You are the one just guessing here.  It probably was someone at indiana who told katz.  You think katz has been covering college bball for the better part of a decade without a having single source?  There is someon on one of the boards with insider info practically anytime something major happens.  I don't see why people are so sure it was crean breaking the story.  Welcome to the internet age, stuff gets out.

[MR.HAYWARD]

I keep hearing this same "lack of character" argument over and over and over again.

Aside from Hayward admitting that he was miffed that Crean's son won an award at a camp--so miffed in fact that allowed his son go back--nobody seems able to document any actual examples of this "lack of character". 

Usually "lack of character" is evidenced by things like getting caught making NCAA recruiting violations, egregious technical fouls or ejections leading to suspension by the NCAA, getting naked in front of your team, embarrassing videos of the coach kissing coeds at frat parties, getting drunk and disorderly at campus bars, getting arrested for DWI, recruiting players of questionable morals, or giving favors to players who don't cut it in the classroom like having tutors take the tests for them. 

Getting into fistfights with your players might be a sign of lack of character, but as Al proved, that isn't necessarily the case.

To me, a real sign of lack character are those who keep lobbing accusations but don't have anything to back them up.

your affection for crean warps your memory.  never did i say i was "miffed"  by Creans display.  What I said was I was embarrassed for him and felt bad for him as he continuously gave one award after another to his son to the gasps and moans of over 1000 Mu supporters.  Never did anger have anything to do with it, simply a pathetic display where i felt embarrassmnet for a person that clearly had no idea of what he was doing to him self to an entire gymnasioum full of MU people.  yet another display to the man

[PE8983]

"It was also widely reported that the team met with Crean at his home before he left for the press conference the next morning."

Umm - Crean got out of a limo in Bloomington for the nightly news holding up a "Crean and Crimson" tee shirt.  About 2 hours after telling his MU team he was leaving. 

[MR.HAYWARD]

Apparently not, because there there has been exactly one personal interaction that has been shared on this board.  And Hayward was so incensed by it that he sent his own kids back to Crean's camp the next year.

The way people talk about Crean, one would think Hayward should be arrested for child endangerment!

If there are "personal interactions," they've never been shared.  My guess is that, as with Hayward's case, they are so petty that people are embarrassed to even bring them up.

this actually happened the last year he had the camp...so no one including me would have or could have sent their child back "despite"  as you continue to spew.  Its amazing how you conyinue to twist this story to fit your pathetic agaenda.  Additionally numerous other people on this board have verified this story...it is not just mine

[Marquette84]

He did abscond 1.5 years after signing a 10-year contract extension. That contract had him here through the 2016-2017.  Thankfully, TC did not honor his contract.  Buzz > TC

Sometimes ones hatred blinds one to facts. 

Crean's contract you refer to included a buyout clause, which Crean honored.  Hence, there was no basis lawsuit from MU claiming that Crean did not honor his contract.

As for brining in Buzz, I'm really surprised you're even bringing this one up.  You might want to check out wht happened on his departure from UNO.

[Marquette84]

actually, I shared mine in a thread a few months ago.

but thanks for checking before just making up whatever helps your argument.

I don't recall the discussion, so it obviously didn't make much of an impression.

But please, do me the favor of retelling the story--you obviously feel its important.