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Who is most responsible for the Packers dismal start and has to go?

Ted Thompson
10 (13.2%)
Mike McCarthy
25 (32.9%)
Can 'em both before my heartburn gets any worse
29 (38.2%)
Who cares? Thank God for Badger Women's Hockey!
12 (15.8%)

Total Members Voted: 76

ATWizJr

After today's dismal performance whaddya' think?

MUeng

seeing kampman drop back in coverage is embarrassing

ATWizJr


GGGG

Quote from: MUeng on November 08, 2009, 06:16:31 PM
seeing kampman drop back in coverage is embarrassing


+74

They get no pass rush, and the best pass rusher on the team out guarding a tight end.

g0lden3agle

Shouldn't the D-Coordinator be put on that poll as well?  I guess it wasn't his fault he was hired to bring in the 3-4, but you could at least utilize the players to their complete efficiency.

GGGG

Quote from: g0lden3agle on November 09, 2009, 09:44:23 AM
Shouldn't the D-Coordinator be put on that poll as well?  I guess it wasn't his fault he was hired to bring in the 3-4, but you could at least utilize the players to their complete efficiency.


The word is that McCarthy is insisting on the 3-4.

g0lden3agle

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 09, 2009, 11:09:50 AM

The word is that McCarthy is insisting on the 3-4.

Interesting, I remember reading an article about it after their 2nd loss to the Vikings where McCarthy was saying they are about the team, not getting individuals to the Pro Bowl and such.  I guess I just thought that was more of a defense of his D-Coordinator than it was of the system itself.  I think after two games in a row where they have allowed massive amounts of points, it's safe to say there should be some reconsidering as to whether the 3-4 is even good for the team as a whole.

Hards Alumni

Quote from: g0lden3agle on November 09, 2009, 11:18:29 AM
Interesting, I remember reading an article about it after their 2nd loss to the Vikings where McCarthy was saying they are about the team, not getting individuals to the Pro Bowl and such.  I guess I just thought that was more of a defense of his D-Coordinator than it was of the system itself.  I think after two games in a row where they have allowed massive amounts of points, it's safe to say there should be some reconsidering as to whether the 3-4 is even good for the team as a whole.

the players were also commenting that they need to be more uncorked, and there are a lot more plays that they can run that are more aggressive.

IAmMarquette

While the D hasn't been world-beating, the offense and special teams haven't exactly put the Defense in position to be successful.

Yesterday, the Bucs scored touchdowns on drives of 8, 17 and 72 yards, one on a blocked punt and one on an INT.
Last week, the Vikings scored touchdowns on drives of 14, 51, 63, 38 and 59 yards.

In 2 weeks, the defense has allowed 1 touchdown on drives of 70 yards or more. I don't know the stats on that sort of thing league-wide, but given this admittedly-small sample size, it seems that, given decent field position, the defense can actually do its job. The last couple of weeks, special teams have been terrible, and the offense (through three-and-outs last week, and interceptions on Sunday) hasn't been much better.

ATWizJr


NavinRJohnson

My initial thought is McCarthy has to go, and he does, but I have probably been giving Thompson the benefit of the doubt a little too much (this is likely an overreaction reaction to all the Favre stuff...he got a bad rap on that, and it is incredibly unimportant and overblown).

The more I think about it, he has done a terrible job. I have previously referenced his inability to draft o-linemen, but the reality is, he has shown an inability to draft period. He has done a nice job with WRs and not much else. I know this, if you have a well known philosophy of building through the draft, your special teams cannot suck. On the contrary, if you are assembling your talent through the draft, you should have special teams players coming out of your ears. The Packers don't.

ChicosBailBonds

You guys can have Wade Phillips.   Look, all this stuff can turn on a dime.  4 weeks ago, hell, 1 week ago, every Cowboys fan wanted Phillips gone.  I still want him gone, but he could be the guy.

Two years ago, McCarthy was the greatest GBP coach since Holmgren.  The margin of error is so very small.  I don't see what he's lost the team.  It's just a talent issue from my perspective.  The offensive line has issues as does the defense, but it wouldn't surprise me to see you beat my boys this weekend.  Dallas secondary sucks, should be a high scoring affair.

Moonboots

#12
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 09, 2009, 05:40:28 PM
You guys can have Wade Phillips.   Look, all this stuff can turn on a dime.  4 weeks ago, hell, 1 week ago, every Cowboys fan wanted Phillips gone.  I still want him gone, but he could be the guy.

Two years ago, McCarthy was the greatest GBP coach since Holmgren.  The margin of error is so very small.  I don't see what he's lost the team.  It's just a talent issue from my perspective.  The offensive line has issues as does the defense, but it wouldn't surprise me to see you beat my boys this weekend.  Dallas secondary sucks, should be a high scoring affair.

High scoring for Dallas.  Ware will have 5 sacks. Take that to the bank.


EDIT: And I'll take your trade.  Phillips saw issues four weeks ago, hell, one week ago, and he fixed them. You're 6-2.  If the trend continues, he'll finish his third straight winning season in a brutal division since becoming Cowboys coach.  He's 25 games over .500 as a head coach in his career, to McCarthy's 6 (mostly because of a cushion built on one seemingly lucky season).  What respect has McCarthy earned at this point?

GGGG

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 09, 2009, 05:40:28 PM
Two years ago, McCarthy was the greatest GBP coach since Holmgren. 


Talk about damning with feint praise.

I mean, considering the alternatives are Ray Rhodes and Mike Sherman...

LON

McCarthy needs to go just because his press conferences can be predicted two weeks in advance...

"We need to work on that, we'll go through that this week."
"Our pad level wasn't sufficient."
"We've identified that as a problem, we'll go to work this week."
"Pad level, rabble, rabble, sharpie marker, rabble rabble, I'm overrated.  Rabble!"

Hards Alumni

Quote from: LancesOtherNut on November 10, 2009, 10:02:01 AM
McCarthy needs to go just because his press conferences can be predicted two weeks in advance...

"We need to work on that, we'll go through that this week."
"Our pad level wasn't sufficient."
"We've identified that as a problem, we'll go to work this week."
"Pad level, rabble, rabble, sharpie marker, rabble rabble, I'm overrated.  Rabble!"

+1 it drives me nuts.

you've identified the problem.  now change something.

ChicosBailBonds

Quote from: PXILibero2 on November 09, 2009, 06:55:29 PM
High scoring for Dallas.  Ware will have 5 sacks. Take that to the bank.


EDIT: And I'll take your trade.  Phillips saw issues four weeks ago, hell, one week ago, and he fixed them. You're 6-2.  If the trend continues, he'll finish his third straight winning season in a brutal division since becoming Cowboys coach.  He's 25 games over .500 as a head coach in his career, to McCarthy's 6 (mostly because of a cushion built on one seemingly lucky season).  What respect has McCarthy earned at this point?

We look at things differently as Cowboys fans, much like the Yankees fans.  Don't care about the regular season, it's about the rings and playing for the rings.  He has 0 playoff wins and couldn't even get to the playoffs last year.  His December records are abysmal. 

Moonboots

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 10, 2009, 02:38:23 PM
We look at things differently as Cowboys fans, much like the Yankees fans.  Don't care about the regular season, it's about the rings and playing for the rings.  He has 0 playoff wins and couldn't even get to the playoffs last year.  His December records are abysmal. 

Believe me, things aren't much different in this part of the football world.  One playoff appearance and one blowout win against a fringe playoff team in four years aren't enough to justify keeping McCarthy around, especially given his lack of previous success.  I'd take my chances with Wade Phillips getting over the hump eventually versus McCarthy.

ChicosBailBonds

Quote from: PXILibero2 on November 10, 2009, 05:08:37 PM
Believe me, things aren't much different in this part of the football world.  One playoff appearance and one blowout win against a fringe playoff team in four years aren't enough to justify keeping McCarthy around, especially given his lack of previous success.  I'd take my chances with Wade Phillips getting over the hump eventually versus McCarthy.

It's been more than a DECADE since we've won a playoff game.....people are not happy with Mr. Phillips.  Nice man, but he hasn't won a playoff game ever, anywhere, as a head coach.  He better this year or you can have him because he won't be the Cowboys coach.

jmayer1

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 10, 2009, 02:38:23 PM
We look at things differently as Cowboys fans, much like the Yankees fans.  Don't care about the regular season, it's about the rings and playing for the rings.  He has 0 playoff wins and couldn't even get to the playoffs last year.  His December records are abysmal. 

The Yankees are by far the most dominant team in the history of baseball.  I don't think that's a very apt comparison or is the fanbase that delusional, especially considering how much more parity there has historically been in football as compared to baseball?

Jugdish

Quote from: jmayer1 on November 10, 2009, 06:28:05 PM
The Yankees are by far the most dominant team in the history of baseball.  I don't think that's a very apt comparison or is the fanbase that delusional, especially considering how much more parity there has historically been in football as compared to baseball?

Matters more in GB than Dalls. We do have league most 12 NFL titles after all. Titletown USA.

McCarthy has to go. This is not a well coached team. Sloppy every week and keep making the same mistakes each week. No improvement.
Thompson has his issues but he has brought in some talent. Jennings, Collins, Rodgers... Just no offensive lineman

ChicosBailBonds

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 09, 2009, 08:53:07 PM

Talk about damning with feint praise.

I mean, considering the alternatives are Ray Rhodes and Mike Sherman...

True...then again I remember the days when Packers fans thought Lindy Infante walked on water because they went 10-6.

ChicosBailBonds

Quote from: jmayer1 on November 10, 2009, 06:28:05 PM
The Yankees are by far the most dominant team in the history of baseball.  I don't think that's a very apt comparison or is the fanbase that delusional, especially considering how much more parity there has historically been in football as compared to baseball?

I think most Dallas fans look at football since the merger or since the Super Bowl, when all the world's best players were in one league and not scattered about or in a league where teams were playing Beloit, Ft. Wayne, etc.

To your point, the Yankees have won roughly 25% of all the world championships and played in about 40% of them.   Post merger, the Cowboys have played in 21% of the World Championships and won 12% of them.  The Steelers have won more.  I'm not saying their outlook is correct, it most certainly is delusional, but the thinking is championships and anything short of that is a failure.  Consider that at the end of 1996, the Cowboys had played for the Super Bowl title 31% of the time...it was fairly routine that basically 1 of every 3 years they were in it.  So people are very antsy...delusional or not....they are very antsy.

ChicosBailBonds

Quote from: Jugdish on November 10, 2009, 07:26:48 PM
Matters more in GB than Dalls. We do have league most 12 NFL titles after all. Titletown USA.

McCarthy has to go. This is not a well coached team. Sloppy every week and keep making the same mistakes each week. No improvement.
Thompson has his issues but he has brought in some talent. Jennings, Collins, Rodgers... Just no offensive lineman

Yes, you will always have the most because you've played forever.  No one is denying that.  Dallas has been in the most in the modern era, won the second most, still the NFL's most popular team, etc, etc....you guys have at least made the playoffs and won some games...played in the NFC title just a few years ago (under McCarthy I might add).  Dallas hasn't even won a playoff game in over a decade....people are pissed and antsy. 

You can have Wade!

Moonboots

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 10, 2009, 07:56:12 PM
I think most Dallas fans look at football since the merger or since the Super Bowl, when all the world's best players were in one league and not scattered about or in a league where teams were playing Beloit, Ft. Wayne, etc.

To your point, the Yankees have won roughly 25% of all the world championships and played in about 40% of them.   Post merger, the Cowboys have played in 21% of the World Championships and won 12% of them.  The Steelers have won more.  I'm not saying their outlook is correct, it most certainly is delusional, but the thinking is championships and anything short of that is a failure.  Consider that at the end of 1996, the Cowboys had played for the Super Bowl title 31% of the time...it was fairly routine that basically 1 of every 3 years they were in it.  So people are very antsy...delusional or not....they are very antsy.

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