Uh oh.....this is so not good....

[Pakuni]

There are differences between full qualifiers like DJO...and partial qualifiers whose troubles were academic like Butler and Buycks.  Clark was an academic and behavioral risk.

This is the second high profile mistake that Buzz has made.  And this one is going to hurt more than the Roseboro one.  And if Buzz doesn't have this yanked within 24 hours, my respect for him starts going downhill.

On the final point I agree.
But beyond that I'm not sure how anyone could expect Buzz Williams, or any coach,  to know - or have any inclination - that many months after recruiting a player he would commit this kind of act. Unless there's something criminal in Clark's past that the coaching staff was aware of and willfully ignored, I don't see how you hold them responsible for this one. Had they recruited this kid being aware of a criminal disposition, then hammer them for it. Barring that, however, it's unfair to expect them to be able to predict the future.

The true test is going to be how MU handles it from here.

[Golden Avalanche]

Sixteen months in, the way I describe Buzz' tenure to present is scattered -- we are all over the fracking place.

I think I'm just going to start posting this weekly. It started with Roseboro. Then, the Acker reinstatement. Then the Bowen de-commit. Now, we learn we recruited a young man capable of rape. Awesome.

I've been hot and cold with this program for the last few months and yesterday I spent some time watching all the player videos over the last week or so. I really started to get excited for this year's squad. Then, this little cloud passes over and brings me back down.

The evidence is mounting that Buzz knows the pressure to stay near the top of the Big East is heavy and he may be swinging in areas we should never be near.

Get out of the fucking limo. Get out of the fucking private plane. Lock down the best player in the state. Get Clark or Pinkston to commit and put this program back into the fucking realm it has lived in over the majority of the last 10 years.

[SCdem@MU]

Clark RAPED a girl...that is unacceptable.  frack the UW/MU moral high ground beef...the poor young woman is the victim, and monterale is the POS that needs to get Shawshank Redemption'ed in the showers

Somebody watched Entourage this weekend.

[MUSF]

This is a first...

But I completely agree with PRN.  Time to slow our roll with the JUCOs and stop heaping praise on Buzz for bringing in so many talented JUCOs.

[Pakuni]

I think I'm just going to start posting this weekly. It started with Roseboro. Then, the Acker reinstatement. Then the Bowen de-commit. Now, we learn we recruited a young man capable of rape. Awesome.

MU also recruited Pierre Pierce and Marcettus McGee.

[Daniel]

Some JUCOs are fine, and for academic reasons or wheatever went the JUCO route.  But I was concerned with sogning so many JUCOs, but have to trust the staff  on balancing the classes etc.

This situation with Clark is an embarassment.  But the poor woman raped is the real victim.

Clark will be gone - he's not coming here.  He may spend time in jail if convicted.  We will get over it.  As said above, unless he had a criminal record, etc. it's hard to predict this type of thing.  The woman raped may never get over this.  Our prayers are with her, her family and friends.  

[kmwtrucks]

Butler, Fulce and DJO where cleared by the NCAA that is why they could attend MU as Soph.  The Only true Juco is Dwight
who just missed qualifying if I heard correctly.  Clark was a bit of chararacter Risk and hopefully Buzz has learned his lesson.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is why many programs dont go after jucos.   

Careful, people will start screaming at you and starting threads in the members only section of the Scout board for saying things like that.

[Pakuni]

Careful, people will start screaming at you and starting threads in the members only section of the Scout board for saying things like that.

Better yet, why don't you guys list off some of the many programs not named North Carolina and Duke that don't go after JUCOs.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This may not be a popular opinion, but I'm a little concerned about the recruiting trend... getting away from academics a bit.  I'm all for athleticism and talent, but there were red flags big time with Clark from the get go.... transferring high schools and then not even being able to finish his senior year at Pius for disciplinary reasons.  Eerily similar to the Mbakwe situation.  I hope justice is served and our young coach can learn from this.  Character is important too.  

You are clearly a hater and must think Buzz is an alcoholic based on those comments.

- Sincerely, Warriorfan4life

[ChicosBailBonds]

Better yet, why don't you guys list off some of the many programs not named North Carolina and Duke that don't go after JUCOs.

Wisconsin-madison

I can think of one JUCO they had in the last 7 years.

There are many others, I guess it depends on what your limit is on players from the JUCO ranks.  Give me that criteria and I'll come up with many for you....and many of them top programs.  I don't see an issue every 4 or 5 years going after one kid to fill a spot, but more than that causes many issues with the classes and continuity.

The issues I see going after JUCOs as a matter of repetition are as follows:

#1)  They're only here 2 or 3 years max (usually 2).  Constant turnover with the team. Players only are around a few years to buy into the "Marquette way".

#2)  Typically come in with the absolute bare amount of credits and are constantly playing catchup academically to stay eligible

#3)  For many (not all) there are reasons they went to a JUCO to begin with.  Struggled with academics, struggled with maturity, had issues with discipline, etc.  This doesn't apply to folks like Fulce and Butler and many others.  But like it or not, there is a DAMN REASON why there is a stigma.  That stigma didn't crop up out of the thin blue air, it came about over years and years and years of more issues happening with JUCO players than not.  Is that unfair to make that statement?  Maybe, but it's perception and I'll bet it's reality.

Buzz loves those JUCOs, that's where he cut his teeth.  I hope that we're not on the constant JUCO influx every year but I have my serious doubts.

[GGGG]

Butler, Fulce and DJO where cleared by the NCAA that is why they could attend MU as Soph.  The Only true Juco is Dwight
who just missed qualifying if I heard correctly.  Clark was a bit of chararacter Risk and hopefully Buzz has learned his lesson.

You know I was about to correct you, because I could have sworn that we only had Butler for one more year.  No matter how many times I have looked at the scholarship table, I never realized I was wrong until now.

[MUSF]

Better yet, why don't you guys list off some of the many programs not named North Carolina and Duke that don't go after JUCOs.

Marquette... before Buzz Williams.

Look save me the examples.  I know we had JUCOs before Buzz but you need to limit the number you bring in and choose those few wisely.  When taking a chance on kids, you need to be certain you are bringing them into an environment that will mold and shape them into a productive member of a first class program.  Instead, when you bring in a half dozen JUCOs, you run the risk of having them shape and mold the program, IMO.

[Big Papi]

Wisconsin-madison

I can think of one JUCO they had in the last 7 years.

And yet Wisconsin-Madison has had just as many problems with their non-JUCO recruits(they just kicked 2 players off of their team) as we have with ours.  Its not a JUCO problem.  Each individual and situation is different. 

[Pakuni]

Wisconsin-madison

I can think of one JUCO they had in the last 7 years.

So, you claim there are "many" programs that don't recruit JUCOs and then name ONE which does, in fact, recruit JUCOs?
Fact is, this isn't a JUCO issue. Unless you can show otherwise, I'm going to suggest that a JUCO is no more or less likely to commit a sex offense than a non JUCO (see: Pierre Pierce, Marcettus McGee, etc.)

[Pakuni]

Marquette... before Buzz Williams.

Another excellent example of a school that doesn't recruit JUCOs ... except when it does.

[Thomas' Danish Delight]

Somebody watched Entourage this weekend.

I've actually never seen a single episode...

[Warriors4ever]

Think this gets addressed at the Chicago luncheon?

[ChicosBailBonds]

So, you claim there are "many" programs that don't recruit JUCOs and then name ONE which does, in fact, recruit JUCOs?
Fact is, this isn't a JUCO issue. Unless you can show otherwise, I'm going to suggest that a JUCO is no more or less likely to commit a sex offense than a non JUCO (see: Pierre Pierce, Marcettus McGee, etc.)

Sigh.  Give me the criteria Pakuni.   Wisconsin-Madison has had ONE JUCO in 7 years.  That's not recruiting JUCOs in my opinion.  Perhaps to you it is, but not to me.

So define it for me and I'm happy to answer your question.  If you think 1 in 7 years is recruiting JUCOs then you're right, Wisconsin-madison is recruiting JUCOs.  We just have a distinctly different definition then.

[groove]

I don't want these thugs around the dorms when my daughter goes to MU. Scum.

[MUSF]

Another excellent example of a school that doesn't recruit JUCOs ... except when it does.

1. No one said we should NEVER recruit JUCOs

2. Nice job disregarding the rest of my post.  Hmm... I think I'll try that.
 
"Better yet, why don't you guys list off some of the many programs... that don't go after JUCOs."

Duke and North Carolina don't recruit JUCOs

[Pakuni]

1. No one said we should NEVER recruit JUCOs

2. Nice job disregarding the rest of my post.  Hmm... I think I'll try that.
 
"Better yet, why don't you guys list off some of the many programs... that don't go after JUCOs."

Duke and North Carolina don't recruit JUCOs

OK, that's fair. You just named two. Out of 343 programs.
Does that qualify as "many"?

As for the rest of your post, I disregarded it because it had nothing to do with what I was asking. A post stated that many programs do not recruit the JUCO ranks. A second agreed. I asked them to list some of those many programs. It seemed like a simple request at the time, but perhaps it was more complex than I thought.

That said, regarding what you said, I agree ... to an extent. But I think you're making a false assumption that JUCO players are more predisposed to commiting acts that would reflect poorly on the program/university. What's the basis for said assumption?

[Pakuni]

Sigh.  Give me the criteria Pakuni.   Wisconsin-Madison has had ONE JUCO in 7 years.  That's not recruiting JUCOs in my opinion.  Perhaps to you it is, but not to me.

Sigh ... the criteria was rather simple and stated in plain English. Name some of the many programs that do not recruit JUCOs. Not the ones that only get occasional commitments from JUCOs. Not the ones that recruit the JUCOs infrequently (whatever your definition of infrequently may be). The ones that do not recruit JUCOs. I'm sure there are a handful, particularly in the Ivy and Patriot leagues.
But I very much doubt there are many, particularly relative to the total number of D-I programs. 

[T-Bone]

The guy whose room it was is (was) headed to Boise State.
http://twitter.com/Ckupets4
Seems like pretty much the whole team will be having scholarships revoked.

[77ncaachamps]

1. No one said we should NEVER recruit JUCOs

2. Nice job disregarding the rest of my post.  Hmm... I think I'll try that.
 
"Better yet, why don't you guys list off some of the many programs... that don't go after JUCOs."

Duke and North Carolina don't recruit JUCOs

We're not Duke and NC.

Unfortunately, this happened. Fine. But it wasn't MARQUETTE's fault. It was Clark's fault.

Publicly state that he is no longer going to be welcome at Marquette and move on.

I don't see how this makes Marquette look bad in any way. It happened AFTER he was being actively recruited and offered. It didn't happen BEFORE.

This is unlike the UW situation - not comparing crimes, of course - in that the perps were actually enrolled at the school.

Just cut ties and move on. Sad to see...but that's life in NCAA D-I.