Uh oh.....this is so not good....

[SWARM!]

Sorry PRN, I'm not Unclejohn, although I appreciate the comparison to a bizarre and unstable individual.  Do you even wear hats? I know you're some kind of legend around here, but don't you usuall do it in a bizarre and unstable way? 

I'm a Milwaukee area native.  I'm 27 and graduated from MU in 2007. I've had no other monikers on this blog.  I want to see our program succeed as much as anyone.  And I get tired of all the trivial, off-topic BS that seems to end up in a good number of these threads. 

[GGGG]

This thread (the first page of it at least - maybe more info came out since then) was very disturbing.  Did we learn nothing from the Duke Lacrosse case?  Based on one article, people assuming Clark is guilty of a charge that has in no way been proven yet and going out of their way to call him a monster.

He admitted to fingering her.  Now unless she consented, but consent comes into question if they provide alcohol, he basically he admitted he raped her.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

This thread (the first page of it at least - maybe more info came out since then) was very disturbing.  Did we learn nothing from the Duke Lacrosse case?  Based on one article, people assuming Clark is guilty of a charge that has in no way been proven yet and going out of their way to call him a monster.

Someone's life was severely changed for the worse in this case.  Likely it's the female and it's a horrible thing and we all feel terrible for her.  But until it's known for sure, why is everyone so quick to ruin his life?  He'll lose his scholarship, and he also has to deal with being vilified for the rest of his life, regardless of his innocence or guilt.

Remind me again of the Duke lacrosse case? In particularly, remind me of the part when they disposed of the accuser's panties and also the part where the players admitted fingering the stripper.

[MU_Iceman]

But I love MU just as much and do not like seeing the school's name pulled through the mud.  I don't know why people have a hard time understanding this.  Recruit quality people and quality things will happen.  Don't do that and you put the school, the program, the coach, etc into a potential bad light. 

I don't think that everyone needs to get so bent out of shape here.  Read through this entire thread...ALL OF IT...just about every person has said the same thing:  That we can't stereotype all JUCO's, that maybe Buzz moved to quick on Clark, the red flags were there, etc...

As for this particular incident "dragging our school's name through the mud"... there's no doubt that Marquette means a great deal to all of us (hell, we take time out of our days to rant and rave about our pride), but nationally, MU really doesn't get much publicity at all. This kid is a 2010 VERBAL commit - there is virtually NO red tape involved for us to pull our offer - my guess is that his spot get's filled by another big recruit (hopefully a Walker or Derosier) and no one in the national media ever cares enough to question MU's ethics.

Had this kid been at MU when this happened or if Buzz would have been in the room coaching him on the proper fingering technique, it'd be a different story...but that didn't happen, so everyone calm down, back off the ledge, and focus on more pertinent issues like DJO's injury, O'Tule's bad hands and inability to finish around the basket, or who we're going to fill our last scholarships with...

[MU_Iceman]

Remind me again of the Duke lacrosse case? In particularly, remind me of the part when they disposed of the accuser's panties and also the part where the players admitted fingering the stripper.

Okay, and PS

PRN - I don't know if that was supposed to be funny...but I laughed out loud when I read it...well done!   

[SCdem@MU]

I've actually never seen a single episode...

Frank Darabont, the director of Shawshank Redemption, made a cameo appearance on Entourage this weekend and said something very similar about a stalker that he had.

[SCdem@MU]

This thread (the first page of it at least - maybe more info came out since then) was very disturbing.  Did we learn nothing from the Duke Lacrosse case?  Based on one article, people assuming Clark is guilty of a charge that has in no way been proven yet and going out of their way to call him a monster.

Someone's life was severely changed for the worse in this case.  Likely it's the female and it's a horrible thing and we all feel terrible for her.  But until it's known for sure, why is everyone so quick to ruin his life?  He'll lose his scholarship, and he also has to deal with being vilified for the rest of his life, regardless of his innocence or guilt.

Did you read the affidavit? Unless the cop is lying, it is pretty clear that Clark is going to jail for a long, long, long time. In his first interview with the police he lied about where he was and in his second he admits that he "merely inserted his finger into her vagina."

As someone else posted, he basically admitted to rape right there. Even if all of this was consensual and turns out to be a case of a girl who had regrets the next day, Clark is a complete idiot for putting himself in that situation and he is even dumber for how he dealt with the police.

[nyg]

I don't think that everyone needs to get so bent out of shape here.  Read through this entire thread...ALL OF IT...just about every person has said the same thing:  That we can't stereotype all JUCO's, that maybe Buzz moved to quick on Clark, the red flags were there, etc...

As for this particular incident "dragging our school's name through the mud"... there's no doubt that Marquette means a great deal to all of us (hell, we take time out of our days to rant and rave about our pride), but nationally, MU really doesn't get much publicity at all. This kid is a 2010 VERBAL commit - there is virtually NO red tape involved for us to pull our offer - my guess is that his spot get's filled by another big recruit (hopefully a Walker or Derosier) and no one in the national media ever cares enough to question MU's ethics.

Had this kid been at MU when this happened or if Buzz would have been in the room coaching him on the proper fingering technique, it'd be a different story...but that didn't happen, so everyone calm down, back off the ledge, and focus on more pertinent issues like DJO's injury, O'Tule's bad hands and inability to finish around the basket, or who we're going to fill our last scholarships with...

I tried earlier by starting a new topic on this.  

[TJ]

He admitted to fingering her.  Now unless she consented, but consent comes into question if they provide alcohol, he basically he admitted he raped her.

That wasn't in the original article posted.  Unless you're saying that the first 10 posters in the thread ran off to get all the facts before they posted, they ran to the conclusion of guilty.

[TJ]

Did you read the affidavit? Unless the cop is lying, it is pretty clear that Clark is going to jail for a long, long, long time. In his first interview with the police he lied about where he was and in his second he admits that he "merely inserted his finger into her vagina."

As someone else posted, he basically admitted to rape right there. Even if all of this was consensual and turns out to be a case of a girl who had regrets the next day, Clark is a complete idiot for putting himself in that situation and he is even dumber for how he dealt with the police.

The DA in the Duke case lied.  It's not out of the realm of possibility that the cop lied in this case.

He may end up being guilty.  Or it may end up that your last sentence is what truly happened.  Either way it's 99.99% likely he's not going to play NCAA basketball, at least not here.  Given that we don't know and there's a chance that your last sentence is what happened, I don't like the fact that when any woman makes an accusation of rape, the immediate response is to vilify the accused.  The evidence of that is the first page of this thread.  I guarantee that those posters did not read the affidavit before posting; some probably didn't even get past the headline of the article before making up their minds.

[TJ]

Remind me again of the Duke lacrosse case? In particularly, remind me of the part when they disposed of the accuser's panties and also the part where the players admitted fingering the stripper.

The disposing of panties is a new one, but the players admitted to all sorts of acts with the stripper.  Their defense, which turned out to be true after they were vilified for over a year, was that she was lying and it wasn't rape because it was consensual.

[Golden Avalanche]

MU also recruited Pierre Pierce and Marcettus McGee.

Good pull but neither was remotely close to being an MU player like Clark.

Like it or not, when a prospect verbally commits or signs an LOI it's a whole different level of outrage.

[Kramerica]

The disposing of panties is a new one, but the players admitted to all sorts of acts with the stripper.  Their defense, which turned out to be true after they were vilified for over a year, was that she was lying and it wasn't rape because it was consensual.

Actually the Duke Lacrosse players never admitted to having sex with her. Big difference between that one and the Clark case. 

[GGGG]

That wasn't in the original article posted.  Unless you're saying that the first 10 posters in the thread ran off to get all the facts before they posted, they ran to the conclusion of guilty.

But the original article posted mentioned that he was one of three arrested and accused of raping a girl that they got drunk.  99.9% of the time, that pretty much means guilty.  Sorry but MUScoop isn't a court of law.

[Kramerica]

Good pull but neither was remotely close to being an MU player like Clark.

Like it or not, when a prospect verbally commits or signs an LOI it's a whole different level of outrage.

I think people are over reacting to the bad influence that this paints on Marquette.  For one thing, I doubt this story is getting much publicity outside of Milwaukee and the area of Texas where it happened.

Also, Clark was simply a recruit of Marquette.  I'm sure that there are a number of other recruits (even at schools like UNC, Duke, and KU) that get scholarship offers pulled from them after they get in trouble with the law and it is not necessarily an indictment of the program where it happens.  

I honestly don't get the complex of some of the people on this board who freak out over every little thing (not that this is a little thing, its definitely a serious matter) and worry about how this reflects on the school.  I garuantee you most people out there don't obsess over Marquette like we do. I'd be willing to bet that for most people, Marquette is respected enough and certainly isn't looked at as similar to a Cincinatti or a Memphis.  It takes years of incidents like the Clark incident happening on your campus to get that type of reputation.

[Pakuni]

Good pull but neither was remotely close to being an MU player like Clark.

Like it or not, when a prospect verbally commits or signs an LOI it's a whole different level of outrage.

So, you're OK with Marquette recruiting players who months later commit sex crimes, but accepting a verbal commitment from one is crossing the line?
I see.

[GOMU1104]

I think people are over reacting to the bad influence that this paints on Marquette.  For one thing, I doubt this story is getting much publicity outside of Milwaukee and the area of Texas where it happened.

It's on NBE Basketball Report. 

[nyg]

Here's the NBE Report story:  UGH....

A troubling story out of Hillsboro (TX) that could impact the 2010 recruiting class at Marquette as Three Texas Basketball Players are Accused in a Woman's Rape (Houston Chronicle). One of the accused is 20-year-old Monterale Clark, who is verbally commited to the Golden Eagles. Clark is charged with charged with second degree felony sexual assault and are being held in lieu of a $50,000 bond in the Hill County Jail.

The 6-foot-10, 222-pound Clark averaged 15.8 points, 10.2 rebounds and 2.1 blocked shots per game as a freshman last season at Hill College is Hillsboro (TX).

Todd Rosiak updates the comings and goings of the last several weeks within the MU program on his Golden Eagles Blog for the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. It began when freshman forward Brett Roseboro of Quakertown (PA) left the team on August 23 and transferred days later to St. Bonaventure. Senior point guard Maurice Acker, who'd quit the Golden Eagles in June to focus on his academics, rejoined the team on Aug. 29.

Also impacting the class of 2010 recruiting is the de-commitment on September 3 of guard Aaron Bowen. Bowen, of Jacksonville (FL), committed last November to the Golden Eagles. His decommitment and the uncertainty of Clark leaves us to believe that Jamail Jones is the only current 210 commitment for MU likely to sign in November.

Marquette is very much in the mix for local standout Vander Blue, a Wisconsin de-commitment, Carson Desrosiers and Cameron Clark, any of which could decide in the coming weeks.

Now, in addition to all the turnover, sophomore guard Darius Johnson-Odom is expected to be out for at least a month after suffering an injury to his left foot in a recent workout. He is in a protective boot and will be out at least until the beginning of official practices in October. However, we have seen how tricky a foot injury could be...

[Pakuni]

Based on Scout's database going back to 2002:

UCLA has not had a JUCO under Howland or Lavin.
Arizona has not had a JUCO under Olson, O'Neill, or Miller.
Georgetown has not had a JUCO under Esherick or JT3.
Vanderbilt has not had a JUCO.
Florida has not had a JUCO.
Villanova has not had a JUCO.

That's just off the top of my head, there's a bunch more out there, and that's not even factoring in the academically elite schools which don't allow the schools to get JUCO players.  

Good list. But I'm wondering ... does the fact these schools have not had a JUCO on their roster mean they haven't recruited any?

For example, according to Rivals, Florida currently is recruiting 2010 prospects Paris Dean out of Paris JC in Texas and Jeremy McCray out of Cloud County CC in Kansas.
Georgetown, again according to Rivals, was recruiting Monterale Clark teammate Quincy Owens.
I'll try to find more examples if you wish.

I don't doubt there are some schools that simply will not recruit a JUCO under any circumstances, most notably the elite academic schools that don't really compete in basketball at a high level (i.e. Ivy and Patriot leagues). But, contrary to the statements here, I very much doubt there are "many" of them.

[Golden Avalanche]

So, you're OK with Marquette recruiting players who months later commit sex crimes, but accepting a verbal commitment from one is crossing the line?
I see.

Good twist. You probably get away with that a lot.

The recruiting process is a chance to learn about people. Inevitably, due to the size and scope of our program we will have been "involved" at time or another with people who run afoul of the law (e.g. Pierce or McGee) but if you do your due diligence this kind of situation can be avoidable.

Anyone with half a brain in Milwaukee who was/is clued in either with MPS or Clark knew there were risks in this young man's life both inside the lines and outside the gym. Buzz took it upon himself to look at those risks and make a decision that they weren't enough of a warning to discontinue his recruitment of Clark. Once that choice was made to make Clark a member of the MU family, you open yourself up to the scorn of some fans or the nonchalance of other fans.

To wrap it up, if I'm not mistaken, both Pierce and McGee committed their acts while members of their particular University's team. Not sure either had red flags of such a degree that Clark did prior to his commitment but I'm sure you will know.

[bma725]

You might want to look at those again.  Not a single one has actually been updated since those players were in high school.  Georgetown has not been involved with Owens since he was in high school, Florida hasn't been involved with either Dean or McCrary in a few years.

Rivals is notorious for not updating a players list unless he commits somewhere.  For example, Jeremy McCrary's hasn't been updated since 2006...when he was a sophomore in high school.

[pillardean]

But the original article posted mentioned that he was one of three arrested and accused of raping a girl that they got drunk.  99.9% of the time, that pretty much means guilty.  Sorry but MUScoop isn't a court of law.

+1

MUScoop isn't the court of law, so yeah we can allude to guilt.

MUScoop is one of many courts of public opinion for MU bball.  And I think we all agree that this kid better not still be able to attend next year.  Whether he is found guilty or not in the court of law, public opinion is not good.  I mean, I wouldn't want my little sister at one of her first college parties (kinda like the guy who posted about his daughter) when there is a man, with friends, trolling for youngsters.  It is sick.  No place at all for something like that even if somehow he is exhonerated.  And Best Wishes to the girl.  It's going to take some time for her to get past this, but I hope she does and I hope her family and friends are supporting her unwaveringly.

However, I do think that this board is coming down a bit too harsh on the JUCO players and only accepting "ideal" recruits.  Just because a high school kid looks clean don't make him so. Let's look at a guy like Jimmy Butler.  I'd always take a character like him, going to JUCO and then making the jump to MU.  He may be an exception, but why give up on a player like that just because he went to JUCO?  Dumb and ignorant to think like that.

In the end, each individual scenario varies.  Yeah, you could jump on Buzz for recruiting a bad character if you want, but I won't.  It comes down to the individual and the choices they make once they have the opportunity.  Clark made an awful decision and he should pay for it the rest of his life, you can't take something like that away from a person and be allowed to continue with everyday life.  What if Clark wasn't a JUCO?  Would the outrage be there?  Yes, but not towards Buzz and the recruiting strategy.

Buzz better move on and not look back-if not, then let the head hunting beginning.

[groove]

When Clark's name first came up as a recruit were any of these red flags ever mentioned on the board. I'm not a regular here, so I'm not sure, but reading now, it seems like his background was common knowledge. Was it that old thing of everyone being too PC to come out and say a Thug is a Thug. I mean it seems obvious now. Especially after seeing his videos on facebook and stuff. A Thug is a Thug, how Buzz missed this one I don't know.

[bma725]

When Clark's name first came up as a recruit were any of these red flags ever mentioned on the board. I'm not a regular here, so I'm not sure, but reading now, it seems like his background was common knowledge. Was it that old thing of everyone being too PC to come out and say a Thug is a Thug. I mean it seems obvious now. Especially after seeing his videos on facebook and stuff. A Thug is a Thug, how Buzz missed this one I don't know.

Briefly.  Clark's commitment came out of the blue.  He'd been seen at a few MU games, but no one made much of it.  In fact he committed a few days before the story actually broke here.  The only people that knew were those directly involved, and a Texas AAU site.

[groove]

Briefly.  Clark's commitment came out of the blue.  He'd been seen at a few MU games, but no one made much of it.  In fact he committed a few days before the story actually broke here.  The only people that knew were those directly involved, and a Texas AAU site.

thanks