Cadougan Cleared...

[ChicosBailBonds]

Thanks Abe...

Ouch.  By the way, is that guy still around?

[ChicosBailBonds]

And yet, they've had more kids that couldn't hack it academically in college and were suspended because of grades in that same period. 

Very true and good point.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos just a.) needs something to complain about and b.) has a raging UW complex in that he actually cares what their fans think about MU almost or just as much as MU's W/L record.

You nailed it, you always do.  I'm sorry for wanting our program to win without any questions, it's such a horrible goal to strive for.  I wish we could be more like Memphis than Stanford...that will be my new mantra.     (and no, I'm not saying we are like Memphis)

[GGGG]

The clearinghouse needs to be more efficient and change some of the rules that are hurting the kids both academically and athletically.  If they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation. What are the negatives about allowing international students participate in school and basketball prior to being cleared? If they aren't cleared, they can't play in games anyway. It is red tape and ridiculous.

I think you are being a little overblown here.  As bma pointed out, just letting them in without a thorough review isn't a good thing.  And secondly, what did they really miss?  A few pick up games over the summer.  No biggie in the grand scheme.

The clearninghouse is busy with fall sports.  I'm glad they got them in prior to the semester starting.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Doesn't MU have one of the highest graduation rates among athletes across the nation???  So who cares if the clearing house has to research their legitimacy...I think MU's track record speaks for itself.

Besides, Marquette has programs like FFP and i believe EOP that allows kids with substandard grades or ACT/SAT scores to come to Marquette....and there are studies that prove that they go on to be just as successful as those who were accepted outright.  I know this because I was one of the underachievers accepted to the FFP program and I'm grateful.

Yes, we do.  What's tricky about that, however, is that it's only in the last 4 years that we've had all these Clearinghouse issues and so none of those kids have matriculated through the system to see if any impact on graduation rates happens.   If all these kids get through, then no big deal.  To me, graduation rates is big and I've stated it here many times.   Win, graduate, no NCAA rules violations, and no police blotter issues and I'll be happy.  If graduation rates suffer, then I think it's something we have to look at (depending on how severe, but until that data comes through we won't know....just speculation).

[lurch91]

I think this is the 3 Clearinghouse Issue in 4 years; Lazar in 2006, Mbakwe in 2007, no one in 2008 and then Mbao and Cadougan this year.

I was more afraid of Mbakwe getting past the Clearinghouse then either Mbao and Cadougan.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't think of anyone having a Clearinghouse issue until Lazar.  But I also think the high school basketball landscape has changed so much in the last 10 years.

[TallTitan34]

Didn't Liam have to be cleared last year coming from Canada?

[lurch91]

Didn't Liam have to be cleared last year coming from Canada?

He HAD to get cleared, but was there an issue/hold up with him.  I don't recall being on pins and needles waiting to hear if he was going to get cleared before classes started.

From Todd's article on Junoir and Yous:
"That's the thing with the new rule; not to justify Junior or Yous, but the new rule in general relative to international students...we had four domestic kids on campus this summer. None of them were certified. Kids graduate June 10, June 12, summer school starts here 10 business days later. There's no possible way the Clearinghouse can process not just Marquette's basketball guys, but all the basketball guys."

Seems that this rule is new and didn't hold McMorrow up last year.

[groove]

Yes, we do.  What's tricky about that, however, is that it's only in the last 4 years that we've had all these Clearinghouse issues and so none of those kids have matriculated through the system to see if any impact on graduation rates happens.   If all these kids get through, then no big deal.  To me, graduation rates is big and I've stated it here many times.   Win, graduate, no NCAA rules violations, and no police blotter issues and I'll be happy.  If graduation rates suffer, then I think it's something we have to look at (depending on how severe, but until that data comes through we won't know....just speculation).

"Let's matriculate the ball down the field, boys."

[copious1218]

Didn't Liam have to be cleared last year coming from Canada?

I believe he did have to be cleared, but we were planning on redshirting him because he had to sit out a year anyway, so I don't think anyone was waiting around to see if he would clear like we did with Mbao and Cadougan.

[lurch91]

McMorrow wasn't being redshirted.  He had to sit out a year since the NCAA viewed him as a transfer.

[copious1218]

I know he had to sit out a year because of transfer, however, didn't we redshirt him so he wouldn't lose that year of eligibility?

[MR.HAYWARD]

Maymon, Rosboro and Williams are paying their own room and board while on campus this summer? Lazar had to pay before he was cleared if I remember correctly.

NO!!  american recruits are allowed to receive aid before passing the clearinghouse, internationals are not. 

hence the issue bUZZ has and the problem with the rule is that winter athletes are not priority over fall athletes at hte clearinghouse and therefore bball kids are miisng the summer if they are foreigners

[lurch91]

You can't loose a year of eligibility if you aren't eligible to play. Regardless, McMorrow would have had 3 years of eligibility after sitting out last year.

I was wrong, reading this Rosiak Blog from June 2008 it says he was just being redshirted. nothing about sitting out due to a transfer issue.

[copious1218]

but if he didn't redshirt, he would have only had two years of eligibility left - athletes can redshirt their transfer year (if they have not previously redshirted), so they can maintain 4 full years of eligibility.  (at least this is my understanding - if anyone knows better, please inform).

Regardless, we were not waiting to hear about McMorrow because he was sitting out a year due to transfer.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Yes, we do.  What's tricky about that, however, is that it's only in the last 4 years that we've had all these Clearinghouse issues and so none of those kids have matriculated through the system to see if any impact on graduation rates happens.   If all these kids get through, then no big deal.  To me, graduation rates is big and I've stated it here many times.   Win, graduate, no NCAA rules violations, and no police blotter issues and I'll be happy.  If graduation rates suffer, then I think it's something we have to look at (depending on how severe, but until that data comes through we won't know....just speculation).

I think we need to be careful about waving our graduation rate flag. More than anything, a 100 percent graduation rate that includes students who were barely cutting it in high school is grounds for questioning what is going on at MU. I expect we're not pushing kids through for a statistic, but I wouldn't put it past our previous administration and I suspect our current one doesn't have the heft to do something like that.

[bma725]

but if he didn't redshirt, he would have only had two years of eligibility left - athletes can redshirt their transfer year (if they have not previously redshirted), so they can maintain 4 full years of eligibility.  (at least this is my understanding - if anyone knows better, please inform).

Regardless, we were not waiting to hear about McMorrow because he was sitting out a year due to transfer.

1 - You're understanding is incorrect.  The year you sit out as a transfer is automatically a redshirt year and you don't lose any eligibility for it.  McMorrow did not chose to redshirt, nor did he chose to sit, he was forced to sit out because of NCAA transfer regulations.

2 - We weren't waiting to here on McMorrow because at the same time we found out about him coming, we found out he would have to sit out a year as a transfer student.  The waiting with him was not eligibility related, and it occurred before any fan had heard about him.

[tower912]

Somebody through the 'Abe' bomb at the wrong guy.   PRN, these kids want to play ball.   They know to play ball, they have to get grades.   MU provides the best academic support it possibly can to (A) keep them eligible, (B) help them graduate.   Most other universities do the same, and yet they still have players fall through the cracks.   For a very long time, MU hasn't.    Wear that as a badge of honor.    Playing by the same rules as everyone else, our graduation rate remains 100%.    I believe with all of my heart that MU woud rather flunk a guy or kick him off the team  or have him transfer to a better fit, oreven refuse to admit a more talented player than some others due to academic concerns(Mortenson, Amo, Bell, Matthews, Christian, Hazel, Acker, Saunders) than be seen as a a diploma mill that just wants to win.   There are just too many examples of MU putting its academic integrity first.     Are there easy majors?   Sure.   Is there an abundance of tutoring available?   You betcha.    Same as everywhere else.   100%

[copious1218]

1 - You're understanding is incorrect.  The year you sit out as a transfer is automatically a redshirt year and you don't lose any eligibility for it.  McMorrow did not chose to redshirt, nor did he chose to sit, he was forced to sit out because of NCAA transfer regulations.

2 - We weren't waiting to here on McMorrow because at the same time we found out about him coming, we found out he would have to sit out a year as a transfer student.  The waiting with him was not eligibility related, and it occurred before any fan had heard about him.

I'm not sure how I am incorrect then, as you said the same thing I did (maybe I'm not writing what I'm thinking).  I know McMorrow did not choose to redshirt, I know he did not choose to sit, and I know he had to sit because he was a transfer student.

I guess my question is this, besides for medical reasons, can you redshirt more than one year????  I don't think you can.  So if a player has previously used a redshirt, and then transfers, the year the player sits out due to the transfer cannot be redshirted, right?

[copious1218]

You can't loose a year of eligibility if you aren't eligible to play. Regardless, McMorrow would have had 3 years of eligibility after sitting out last year.

I was wrong, reading this Rosiak Blog from June 2008 it says he was just being redshirted. nothing about sitting out due to a transfer issue.

Lurch,

I think you were right - he sat out due to transfer, but it is my understanding that MU choose to redshirt him because they could and if they did not, the year he sat out would take away a year of eligibility.

[lurch91]

I THOUGHT he was a transfer student, but can't find it in Rosiak's blogs anywhere.  The Blog I did link does mention how many years he'd have left after arrivign at Marquette.

It's all a little murky now.......

[bma725]

Lurch,

I think you were right - he sat out due to transfer, but it is my understanding that MU choose to redshirt him because they could and if they did not, the year he sat out would take away a year of eligibility.

Transfer years don't take away eligibility except in extreme cases(like intra conference in some conferences).  Look at Fitzgerald.  He had three years left at Tulane, transferred to MU and sat out a year, still had three years left.

Secondly, any time you sit out a year, the NCAA considers it a redshirt.  Whether you are doing it because you choose to do it, or because of a transfer situation, or for medical reasons, they call it a redshirt year.

[bma725]

I THOUGHT he was a transfer student, but can't find it in Rosiak's blogs anywhere.  The Blog I did link does mention how many years he'd have left after arrivign at Marquette.

It's all a little murky now.......

He was a transfer from Durham College in Canada.  Played there as a freshman, then transferred to MU, leaving him three years of eligibility.

[copious1218]

Transfer years don't take away eligibility except in extreme cases(like intra conference in some conferences).  Look at Fitzgerald.  He had three years left at Tulane, transferred to MU and sat out a year, still had three years left.

Secondly, any time you sit out a year, the NCAA considers it a redshirt.  Whether you are doing it because you choose to do it, or because of a transfer situation, or for medical reasons, they call it a redshirt year.

so you can just redshirt as many times as you want without repercussions?

[reinko]

Good God folks, just call each other, and settle this.  This thread makes my brain hurt.