Cadougan Cleared...

[jmayer1]

There's a bit of me that is bummed out about it.  There are plenty of programs I wish we aspired to that don't have these yearly waits and are still doing very well on the basketball court. 

Whenever you trumpet TC, isn't your mantra always "give me a guy who recruits players that stay off the police blotter and graduate and you'll be happy?"  Junior and Mbao were much different cases than Lazar of Mbakwe (both of who TC recruited by the way) in that they got flagged by the clearinghouse because they were internationals, not due to the fact they went to a prep school or took classes that the NCAA may or may not think were a bit shady (at least that's how I understand it).  If MU recruited the next Dirk Nowitzki they would have to jump through the same hoops as they are internationals.  I don't believe you voiced this concern when Lazar and Trevor were going through the clearinghouse.  Why was that?

[Ellenson Guerrero]

This TC stuff should just stop (if thats ever possible). People have just drawn sides, either you loved Tom Crean and will defend him to the death, or you hate his guts. There really isn't any in between and for a large number of people on this board it skews every bit of news which comes out, ie Caduogan getting cleared.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Whenever you trumpet TC, isn't your mantra always "give me a guy who recruits players that stay off the police blotter and graduate and you'll be happy?"  Junior and Mbao were much different cases than Lazar of Mbakwe (both of who TC recruited by the way) in that they got flagged by the clearinghouse because they were internationals, not due to the fact they went to a prep school or took classes that the NCAA may or may not think were a bit shady (at least that's how I understand it).  If MU recruited the next Dirk Nowitzki they would have to jump through the same hoops as they are internationals.  I don't believe you voiced this concern when Lazar and Trevor were going through the clearinghouse.  Why was that?

Actually I did voice concern in the past and that's also why I re-voiced that concern today and included Crean in the chronology.  I'm sorry for wishing we didn't have to go through this each year.  Some school named UW-Madison, who has had a hell of a great run the last 9 years, has had to go through this what, one time in the last 10 years that I recall?  We seem to make it an annual junkit, whether it's Crean or Buzz or whomever.  And most assuredly, this started under Crean.  It is what it is, but I wish it wasn't.  That's all.  It's not bad, but I wish we didn't have to go through it what seems like each year of late.

Mbao's prep school has had issues with the NCAA as a potential diploma mill.  Perhaps he was only flagged due to his foreign background, or perhaps it was a bit of extra due diligence into his prep school.  Who knows.

Don't get me wrong, I'll be cheering as hard as I can for this team, but I'd be lying if I didn't say it would be nice to get a class in that didn't have to go through all the red tape, whether it be because of their foreign backgrounds or a prep school they went to.  That's all, nothing sinister.  And yes, that's why if they stay off the police blotter, play hard, win and graduate, I'll be happy.  But I'll be happier not having to wait through this process every year.   

[Pakuni]

Don't get me wrong, I'll be cheering as hard as I can for this team, but I'd be lying if I didn't say it would be nice to get a class in that didn't have to go through all the red tape, whether it be because of their foreign backgrounds or a prep school they went to.  That's all, nothing sinister.  And yes, that's why if they stay off the police blotter, play hard, win and graduate, I'll be happy.  But I'll be happier not having to wait through this process every year.   

I guess I'm confused (not an altogether uncommon experience for me), but why is it bothersome if MU has some recruits who, for various reasons, need to go through the clearinghouse? Is the process too stressful? Do you believe that it's harmful to Marquette's reputation that they recruit a prep school player, like just about every other program in the country? Or an international player? Is it draining Marquette resources that should be utilized in other ways?
I'm not trying to be rhetorical here, just trying to understand why you view it as a negative thing. And obviously you do, given that people typically would not say they wish they didn't have to go through positive experiences.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Good question Pakuni.  It depends on the situation. 

In instances when the prep school has a sullied reputation, it's more of just disappointment of having to go through the process.  Is there something that will come out to tarnish the university or the program?  Can these kids survive at school or will they be like Alton Mason?  What are they checking out?  Did they take sham courses or is it simply a clerical situation?

In a situation where they may have played on a semi-professional team, it's more of a stressful feeling.  Will they be cleared?    How far behind will they be due to missed workouts and practice time?  Was it a matter of playing on a team but not being paid?  Are they truly amateurs?

Do I think it can have an affect on MU's image?  I don't know.  Certainly rival fans will use it against us, it just feeds them and it's an easy ball to hit out of the park.  Will the average person care?  Unlikely....unless something bad comes of it and people start making a linkage. 

I know, I'm an old fuddy-duddy that isn't up to today's ways of the world.  Well, plenty of other schools seem to have very fine programs and aren't on the yearly Clearinghouse thumbs up or thumbs down circuit.  That doesn't mean I think we should be like Duke or Stanford.  On the other hand, I wish it was happening less frequently.  That's all.

[rocky_warrior]

LOL, thanks Pakuni.

[muarmy81]

Actually I did voice concern in the past and that's also why I re-voiced that concern today and included Crean in the chronology.  I'm sorry for wishing we didn't have to go through this each year.  Some school named UW-Madison, who has had a hell of a great run the last 9 years, has had to go through this what, one time in the last 10 years that I recall?  We seem to make it an annual junkit, whether it's Crean or Buzz or whomever.  And most assuredly, this started under Crean.  It is what it is, but I wish it wasn't.  That's all.  It's not bad, but I wish we didn't have to go through it what seems like each year of late.

Mbao's prep school has had issues with the NCAA as a potential diploma mill.  Perhaps he was only flagged due to his foreign background, or perhaps it was a bit of extra due diligence into his prep school.  Who knows.

Don't get me wrong, I'll be cheering as hard as I can for this team, but I'd be lying if I didn't say it would be nice to get a class in that didn't have to go through all the red tape, whether it be because of their foreign backgrounds or a prep school they went to.  That's all, nothing sinister.  And yes, that's why if they stay off the police blotter, play hard, win and graduate, I'll be happy.  But I'll be happier not having to wait through this process every year.   

Thanks Abe...

[dennycrane]

Whenever you trumpet TC, isn't your mantra always "give me a guy who recruits players that stay off the police blotter and graduate and you'll be happy?"  Junior and Mbao were much different cases than Lazar of Mbakwe (both of who TC recruited by the way) in that they got flagged by the clearinghouse because they were internationals, not due to the fact they went to a prep school or took classes that the NCAA may or may not think were a bit shady (at least that's how I understand it).  If MU recruited the next Dirk Nowitzki they would have to jump through the same hoops as they are internationals.  I don't believe you voiced this concern when Lazar and Trevor were going through the clearinghouse.  Why was that?

Didn't Cadougan go to school in the US for 3-4 years? His being flagged by the NCAA was just as likely a result of the the school he attended in Tx.

[LON]

Thanks Abe...

Boom. Roasted.

[The Lens]

Hard to believe Cadougan's HS transcript would merit a 2nd look.  I would think his other classmate could just vouch for the school's credentials.

[NavinRJohnson]

Let's be very clear about why Buzz was hired. This is why Buzz was hired. If MU is to compete with the likes of UConn, Louisville, Syracuse, etc., it is going to require a bit of creativity. With that creativity will come some additional challenges. No doubt some recruits will wash out, just as they did under Crean, Deane, O'Neill...That's just they way it is and the numbers dictate it is almost necessarily so. It is what needs to be done,and it is obviously being done with the full blessing of the University. If guys start bombing out at an unusually high rate, or a few of them don't make it through, that is a different question, but until that happens, I don't see this as much of an issue at all.

[GGGG]

Good question Pakuni.  It depends on the situation. 

In instances when the prep school has a sullied reputation, it's more of just disappointment of having to go through the process.  Is there something that will come out to tarnish the university or the program?  Can these kids survive at school or will they be like Alton Mason?  What are they checking out?  Did they take sham courses or is it simply a clerical situation?

In a situation where they may have played on a semi-professional team, it's more of a stressful feeling.  Will they be cleared?    How far behind will they be due to missed workouts and practice time?  Was it a matter of playing on a team but not being paid?  Are they truly amateurs?

Do I think it can have an affect on MU's image?  I don't know.  Certainly rival fans will use it against us, it just feeds them and it's an easy ball to hit out of the park.  Will the average person care?  Unlikely....unless something bad comes of it and people start making a linkage. 

I know, I'm an old fuddy-duddy that isn't up to today's ways of the world.  Well, plenty of other schools seem to have very fine programs and aren't on the yearly Clearinghouse thumbs up or thumbs down circuit.  That doesn't mean I think we should be like Duke or Stanford.  On the other hand, I wish it was happening less frequently.  That's all.

Why should anyone care what "opposing fans will use against us?"  And as for Duke, I think you need to relook at the exceptions they make for their basketball program.  William Avery and Corey Maggette aren't exactly scholars.

[TomW1365]

Final Four/National Championship here we come. This is the year the name Buzz Williams becomes a household name in college basketball.

HA!  A little optimistic wouldn't you say?  And I thought my glass is half full... your glass is full and spilling over!

[Lennys Tap]

Why should anyone care what "opposing fans will use against us?"  And as for Duke, I think you need to relook at the exceptions they make for their basketball program.  William Avery and Corey Maggette aren't exactly scholars.

Didn't Duke have a player a few years ago who wanted to transfer to Illinois but couldn't get admitted?

[tower912]

Cabougan went to his high school to get into a better environment, according to his mom.   He stayed and seems to have excelled academically.    Mbao is more complicated, but if McMorrow was healthy, we never would have picked up Mbao.   Frankly, I think that Buzz and co are to be commended for having a 7'2" plan B when Liam went down.     Also, the staff is to be commended for staying on it and (apparently) nagging the NCAA to take care of these issues quickly.      As I wrote in a different thread, in a perfect world, we would get a four star PG, Wing and Big evey year and they would all be academic all Americans who tithe.   I think that once again, Buzz and co have handled a tricky situation with class.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Didn't Cadougan go to school in the US for 3-4 years? His being flagged by the NCAA was just as likely a result of the the school he attended in Tx.

wrong!

Junior was not flagged....Juniors situation had nothing to do with his school.  The NCAA rules have changed....they now state that any international student...Junior is canadian.....must pass the clearinghouse before receiving financial aid...ie summer school or room and board.  That is the rule!  no matter what chicos wants to insinuate it had 0% to do with what school they attended and 100% to do with their passpsorts.   

Maymon, Roseboro, and Willimas have not passed the Clearinghouse yet, however, the NCAA allows them to receive benefits before they are cleared.  The only 2 new comers into the Mu program at this time that have passed the Clearing house are Cadougan and Mbao.  the others may face a situation similar to what LAzar faced in amonth or two if their reviews have red flags.

[bma725]

Actually I did voice concern in the past and that's also why I re-voiced that concern today and included Crean in the chronology.  I'm sorry for wishing we didn't have to go through this each year.  Some school named UW-Madison, who has had a hell of a great run the last 9 years, has had to go through this what, one time in the last 10 years that I recall?  We seem to make it an annual junkit, whether it's Crean or Buzz or whomever.  And most assuredly, this started under Crean.  It is what it is, but I wish it wasn't.  That's all.  It's not bad, but I wish we didn't have to go through it what seems like each year of late.

And yet, they've had more kids that couldn't hack it academically in college and were suspended because of grades in that same period. 

[muwarrior69]

Maymon, Roseboro, and Willimas have not passed the Clearinghouse yet, however, the NCAA allows them to receive benefits before they are cleared.  The only 2 new comers into the Mu program at this time that have passed the Clearing house are Cadougan and Mbao.  the others may face a situation similar to what LAzar faced in amonth or two if their reviews have red flags.

Maymon, Rosboro and Williams are paying their own room and board while on campus this summer? Lazar had to pay before he was cleared if I remember correctly.

[Ready2Fly]

Chicos just a.) needs something to complain about and b.) has a raging UW complex in that he actually cares what their fans think about MU almost or just as much as MU's W/L record.

[wyoMUfan]

Abe had a good comment on the JSonline blog (if you can believe it)
"with caudigan in the fold there will be no cups (or plates) half full or empty"...lol
he is a haus, im xcited to see him bully corey fisher around the floor.

[jmayer1]

Actually I did voice concern in the past and that's also why I re-voiced that concern today and included Crean in the chronology.  I'm sorry for wishing we didn't have to go through this each year.  Some school named UW-Madison, who has had a hell of a great run the last 9 years, has had to go through this what, one time in the last 10 years that I recall?  We seem to make it an annual junkit, whether it's Crean or Buzz or whomever.  And most assuredly, this started under Crean.  It is what it is, but I wish it wasn't.  That's all.  It's not bad, but I wish we didn't have to go through it what seems like each year of late.

Mbao's prep school has had issues with the NCAA as a potential diploma mill.  Perhaps he was only flagged due to his foreign background, or perhaps it was a bit of extra due diligence into his prep school.  Who knows.

Don't get me wrong, I'll be cheering as hard as I can for this team, but I'd be lying if I didn't say it would be nice to get a class in that didn't have to go through all the red tape, whether it be because of their foreign backgrounds or a prep school they went to.  That's all, nothing sinister.  And yes, that's why if they stay off the police blotter, play hard, win and graduate, I'll be happy.  But I'll be happier not having to wait through this process every year.   

I agree that I would rather not got through it every year, I just didn't remember you voicing concerns when TC's guys had to do it (and was way too lazy to look back and find it).  Thanks for clarifying your position.

[bma725]

Maymon, Rosboro and Williams are paying their own room and board while on campus this summer? Lazar had to pay before he was cleared if I remember correctly.

Lazar had to pay once the semester started, but somehow summer school and living on campus during the summer is different.

[Rollout-the-Barrel]

The clearinghouse needs to be more efficient and change some of the rules that are hurting the kids both academically and athletically.  If they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation. What are the negatives about allowing international students participate in school and basketball prior to being cleared? If they aren't cleared, they can't play in games anyway. It is red tape and ridiculous.

[esotericmindguy]

Doesn't MU have one of the highest graduation rates among athletes across the nation???  So who cares if the clearing house has to research their legitimacy...I think MU's track record speaks for itself.

Besides, Marquette has programs like FFP and i believe EOP that allows kids with substandard grades or ACT/SAT scores to come to Marquette....and there are studies that prove that they go on to be just as successful as those who were accepted outright.  I know this because I was one of the underachievers accepted to the FFP program and I'm grateful.

[bma725]

The clearinghouse needs to be more efficient and change some of the rules that are hurting the kids both academically and athletically.  If they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation. What are the negatives about allowing international students participate in school and basketball prior to being cleared? If they aren't cleared, they can't play in games anyway. It is red tape and ridiculous.

The problem has to do with the way some conferences are.  There are rules in some places that prevent you from allowing non-qualifiers to enroll, and make them permanently ineligible at your institution if you do allow them in.

Take the Big 12 and what happened to Roburt Sullie as an an example.  He committed to Nebraska, and was going to audit a class so that when he was cleared he could officially enroll.  But the registrar screwed up and had him as an official enrollee despite his not be cleared yet.  A few weeks later, it was determined that he was not a qualifier, and thus couldn't stay at Nebraska.  Not only that, but he couldn't come back to Nebraksa or any other Big 12 school once he became eligible a year later because of the way the Big 12's rules are.  Eventually he ended up at Memphis.

Because of situations and rules like that, the NCAA tries to hold people out until they can officially get them cleared.