I Dislike Lance Armstrong

[MU B2002]

Why?

When has Steve McNair tried to tell people how to live their lives?  Did he make mistakes, yes.  Was he killed because of said mistakes, yes.  Is it unfortunate for his 4 kids, yes.  Just thought it had no basis in this discussion and would not even have been brought up had Steve not been killed 2 weeks ago.

[g0lden3agle]

Remember the names Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire, Roger Clemens...It wasn't that long ago this same conversation took place about guys like that. I didn't need to see positive drug tests to know they were using back then, just as I don't need to see one for Lance Armstrong.

Innocent until proven guilty is very important...in the legal system. Evidence other than a failed drug test is still evidence. Turns out Columbus was right, the earth is in fact round.

People are free to live in their romantic little fantasy land in which they believe he accomplished what he accomplished by simply being more dedicated and working harder than the other guys, I assume because they got duped into buying his book, saw him as some sort of role model, or whatever, and are now simply too embarrassed to admit as much to themselves or anyone else.

He cheated his way to the pinnacle of his sport, and is an undesirable human being to boot.

I could continue the debate, but I try not to make a habit of trying to convert those that are clearly steadfast in their views. You think he clearly took steroids, I think the situation is much different than that of the MLB steroid age and am able to give Lance the benefit of the doubt.

I will say though that I had no clue muscoop was full of so many posters that are so close to Lance to be able to accurately make all these statements.

[ATWizJr]

Remember the names Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire, Roger Clemens...It wasn't that long ago this same conversation took place about guys like that. I didn't need to see positive drug tests to know they were using back then, just as I don't need to see one for Lance Armstrong.

Innocent until proven guilty is very important...in the legal system. Evidence other than a failed drug test is still evidence. Turns out Columbus was right, the earth is in fact round.

People are free to live in their romantic little fantasy land in which they believe he accomplished what he accomplished by simply being more dedicated and working harder than the other guys, I assume because they got duped into buying his book, saw him as some sort of role model, or whatever, and are now simply too embarrassed to admit as much to themselves or anyone else.

He cheated his way to the pinnacle of his sport, and is an undesirable human being to boot.

just another unsubstantiated opinion from someone who secretly wishes he were Armstrong.  (ps consider this an unsubstantiated opinion)

[Mayor McCheese]

I think we are missing the mark on LA here.

Does he seem like a douche some of the time on TV?  Possibly.  Is he constantly on ESPN, the same way Tim Tebow is constantly on ESPN, which makes us hate him because he clogs up our sports watching with usual nonsense, YES.  However what we are missing about LA, and something I have seen first hand(father with cancer).

He gives hope.  To those with cancer, he gives hope, not by what he says, but how he overcame a huge battle with cancer, and went back to life doing what he wanted to do, and succeeded, about as well as you could succeed in his profession.  The man has done more for people like my father and the millions of others that have fought and battled with cancer then just about anyone else.  So he tried to bike again, and realized he can't win, however he HAS to say something because ESPN will interview him over and over, and he has to say something.  For most athletes, they aren't approached constantly by the media.  There are only a few on his status for his sport by being THE guy (Tiger Woods is the only one that really comes to my mind).

Calling LA a douchebag because now since he isn't winning he is coming up with excuses is like me calling out Tiger Woods for being a crybaby because every time he hits a shot he doesn't like he slams his club and pouts(which he does every time).

The biggest story and why everyone loves LA has little to do with how great of an athlete he is, but more with how he gave hope for millions of people across the globe, including someone close to me, and for that I can't say anything bad about the guy.

[🏀]

just another unsubstantiated opinion from someone who secretly wishes he were Armstrong.  (ps consider this an unsubstantiated opinion)

This is my favorite.

You guys really want to take it from LA, don't ya?


With cycling known worldwide as one of the dirtiest sport, how does someone dominant it unlike any other athlete has ever before, despite a rampant juicing epidemic in the sport?

If you need a test to show Lance isn't all human, I have a bridge to sell you.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

With cycling known worldwide as one of the dirtiest sport, how does someone dominant it unlike any other athlete has ever before, despite a rampant juicing epidemic in the sport?

You're totally right. You've convinced me. I hate him now. (for the record, I didn't really love him to begin with, but now I definitely hate him).

Mayor McCheese, please tell your dad he's extremely naive and pretty stupid for finding some hope in Lance Armstrong.

As for the rest of us, we should thank the members of this board who have finally proven that Lance Armstrong is a juicing hypocrite who shouldn't be admired for anything that he has been able to accomplish.

Lance Armstrong is a bad person. Thank God I read this board and found out from people who know him really well, otherwise I might have accidentally bought a yellow bracelet and donated to his stupid charity.


EDIT: Spelling

[🏀]

You're totally right. You've convinced me. I hate him now. (for the record, I didn't really love him to begin with, but now I definitely hate him).

Mayor McCheese, please tell your dad he's extremely naive and pretty stupid for finding some hope in Lance Armstrong.

As for the rest of us, we should thank the members of this board who have finally proven that Lance Armstrong is a juicing hypocrite who shouldn't be admired for anything that he has been able to accomplish.

Lance Armstrong is a bad person. Thank God I read this board and found out from people who know him really well, otherwise I might have accidentally bought a yellow bracelet and donated to his stupid charity.


EDIT: Spelling

I'm sorry, but I won't applaud a man that gave a false sense of hope to people. There is very little chance that he did what a normal human could do without juicing. LA and Nike then turned it into the biggest marketing campaign ever, and made a TON of money off of it (only fractions of it was donated).

He's also a man of questionable character that hasn't improved with his stardom.

[ATWizJr]

I'm sorry, but I won't applaud a man that gave a false sense of hope to people. There is very little chance that he did what a normal human could do without juicing. LA and Nike then turned it into the biggest marketing campaign ever, and made a TON of money off of it (only fractions of it was donated).

He's also a man of questionable character that hasn't improved with his stardom.

  how does the fractions that were donated compare with your contribution?  Typical post from a  slacker criticizing an achiever.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I'm sorry, but I won't applaud a man that gave a false sense of hope to people. There is very little chance that he did what a normal human could do without juicing. LA and Nike then turned it into the biggest marketing campaign ever, and made a TON of money off of it (only fractions of it was donated).

He's also a man of questionable character that hasn't improved with his stardom.

This is a tough one, because I know where you are going with this.

I guess the best thing for me to say is an honest "I don't know".

I don't know if:

Lance Armstrong took PEDs
Lance Armstrong was a bad husband who bailed on his wife
Lance Armstrong was a bad boyfriend and bailed on Sheryl Crow
Lance Armstrong is a mean spirited guy
Lance Armstrong is really only racing now for fame and ego and not because he loves to race

I know some of you guys have your minds made up about these topics, and I guess that's fine. It's all opinion. But, none of you actually know him, so I'm surprised that you have such strong beliefs about this.

I just fall more into "I don't know him, and it seems like the majority of stuff he is doing is pretty good."

[MU B2002]

Not PEDs...Just more oxygen in his blood and a heart that is slightly larger to pump more of that oxygen rich blood.

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/anatomyandphysiology/a/VO2_max.htm

[GooooMarquette]

Wow - there are a whole lotta folks here who really know nothing about cycling.

Regarding the comments that he was somehow a "bad teammate" when he was winning 7 straight Tours -- he was hired to win the yellow jersey, plain and simple.  As such, his team very specifically told him to do whatever it took to gain time on the field, even if it cost other teammates time.  (See Contador, Alberto, 2009 Tour de France).  He wasn't supposed to help out other teammates, and he would have been ripped apart by team management (not to mention the public) if he'd have done so and it cost him the Tour.  

Despite that, he regularly tried to throw his teammates a bone whenever it wouldn't jeopardize his chances.  Go back to some earlier Tours and you'll find plenty of examples of how he gave guys like Hincapie and Landis opportunities to win stages after they helped him up the mountain.  But I guess y'all forgot about that.

Or about how Lance is the only Tour winner in recent history to forego his share of the team winnings, letting his teammates and the team staff get bigger shares at his expense.  Sure, he still had buckets of cash from Trek, Nike and all, but he could have still taken his share (like all other Tour winners) and nobody would have blinked an eye.  Terrible teammate.

And now -- well, he is again doing exactly what his team hired him to do.  At the beginning of the Tour, even the team said there was still a question as to whether Armstrong or Contador was the team's best hope for the jersey.  But Lance said from the beginning that he would take a back seat to Contador as soon as Contador showed he was the stronger rider.  In the past few stages, Contador eliminated any doubt that he's the guy, and Lance has done the right things as a teammate every step of the way -- often to the detriment of his own chances of a higher finish.  In fact, there's a very good chance that he'd be in second right now instead of third if he'd have chased Contador up the road on a couple of the recent mountain stages.

I won't presume to tell anyone whether they should like Lance or not -- that's a totally subjective thing anyway, and it's fine if some people don't like the guy.  But the comments about how he used to be such a bad teammate show how little many of you understand the sport or Lance's history with US Postal and Discovery.

As for his ego, find me any person in any sport who has comparable achievements without being all about ME, ME, ME.  Tiger Woods, Inc?  Right.  Michael Jordan?  Please.  As for the others?  Oh, right -- there really are no others today who can hold a candle to his achievements.  Gee, wonder why the guy might have an ego.  I'm sure none of you would have any ego if you were one of the best who ever lived at your job.

And like it or not, Lance has done as much for cancer research and giving cancer victims hope as any man on the planet.  Yeah, that's right -- he's done more in his second career than most of you will ever do in your first.  Seems only appropriate to hate the guy....

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm sorry, but I won't applaud a man that gave a false sense of hope to people. There is very little chance that he did what a normal human could do without juicing. LA and Nike then turned it into the biggest marketing campaign ever, and made a TON of money off of it (only fractions of it was donated).

He's also a man of questionable character that hasn't improved with his stardom.

From what I can tell, he's not a normal human being.

[ATWizJr]

Wow - there are a whole lotta folks here who really know nothing about cycling.

Regarding the comments that he was somehow a "bad teammate" when he was winning 7 straight Tours -- he was hired to win the yellow jersey, plain and simple.  As such, his team very specifically told him to do whatever it took to gain time on the field, even if it cost other teammates time.  (See Contador, Alberto, 2009 Tour de France).  He wasn't supposed to help out other teammates, and he would have been ripped apart by team management (not to mention the public) if he'd have done so and it cost him the Tour.  

Despite that, he regularly tried to throw his teammates a bone whenever it wouldn't jeopardize his chances.  Go back to some earlier Tours and you'll find plenty of examples of how he gave guys like Hincapie and Landis opportunities to win stages after they helped him up the mountain.  But I guess y'all forgot about that.

Or about how Lance is the only Tour winner in recent history to forego his share of the team winnings, letting his teammates and the team staff get bigger shares at his expense.  Sure, he still had buckets of cash from Trek, Nike and all, but he could have still taken his share (like all other Tour winners) and nobody would have blinked an eye.  Terrible teammate.

And now -- well, he is again doing exactly what his team hired him to do.  At the beginning of the Tour, even the team said there was still a question as to whether Armstrong or Contador was the team's best hope for the jersey.  But Lance said from the beginning that he would take a back seat to Contador as soon as Contador showed he was the stronger rider.  In the past few stages, Contador eliminated any doubt that he's the guy, and Lance has done the right things as a teammate every step of the way -- often to the detriment of his own chances of a higher finish.  In fact, there's a very good chance that he'd be in second right now instead of third if he'd have chased Contador up the road on a couple of the recent mountain stages.

I won't presume to tell anyone whether they should like Lance or not -- that's a totally subjective thing anyway, and it's fine if some people don't like the guy.  But the comments about how he used to be such a bad teammate show how little many of you understand the sport or Lance's history with US Postal and Discovery.

As for his ego, find me any person in any sport who has comparable achievements without being all about ME, ME, ME.  Tiger Woods, Inc?  Right.  Michael Jordan?  Please.  As for the others?  Oh, right -- there really are no others today who can hold a candle to his achievements.  Gee, wonder why the guy might have an ego.  I'm sure none of you would have any ego if you were one of the best who ever lived at your job.

And like it or not, Lance has done as much for cancer research and giving cancer victims hope as any man on the planet.  Yeah, that's right -- he's done more in his second career than most of you will ever do in your first.  Seems only appropriate to hate the guy....
[/quote

Good points all, from someone who obviously has been following the sport.  +1

[🏀]

 how does the fractions that were donated compare with your contribution?  Typical post from a  slacker criticizing an achiever.

What does it matter? I'm a Little Lebowski Urban Achiever. I know that I'm not a giant douche of a person like Lance Armstrong.

Maybe one day, I'll get cancer, juice up to epic proportions and then Nike can exploit my disease into a multi-million dollar campaign of pure profit. I just need an extremely fringe sport that already has integrity issues clouding it's legitimacy.

I'd appreciate it if you kept the personal attacks out of it as well.

[TallTitan34]

Wouldn't Lance be the slacker for juicing up to win his races?

[ATWizJr]

Well, if you don't want to be personally attacked, don't engage in the yourself.

And why does it matter?  You can't be serious.

Because even if he is the worst person in the world as you assert, his little fractions add up to millions of dollars and hope for untold numbers, i.e., his millions of dollars in donations trump your annual contribution by a sizeable factor.

[ATWizJr]

Wouldn't Lance be the slacker for juicing up to win his races?

Can you prove it?  A simple yes or no answer is all that is required.

[TallTitan34]

Can you prove it?  A simple yes or no answer is all that is required.

Yes.

6 urine samples taken from the cyclist during the prologue and five stages of the 1999 Tour de France, frozen and stored since at "Laboratoire national de dépistage du dopage de Châtenay-Malabry" (LNDD), had tested positive for Erythropoietin in recent retesting conducted as part of a research project into EPO testing methods. For years, it had been impossible to detect the drug, called erythropoietin, which builds endurance by boosting the production of oxygen-carrying red blood cells. The world governing body of cycling, Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI), did not begin using a urine test for EPO until 2001, two years after the samples were taken. This claim was based on an investigation in which they claimed to be able to match samples from the 1999 Tour that were used to hone the EPO test to Armstrong. To establish a link between Armstrong and the samples, the LNDD matched the tracking numbers on the samples with those on Armstrong's record with the UCI during the 1999 Tour.

[rocky_warrior]

Ok - locked.  

I deleted the last two posts by PTM and ATWiz - so if you were enjoying this thread - you can thank those two for letting it devolve into a teenage pissing match.  Grow up guys - and please self-moderate.