Author Topic: I Dislike Lance Armstrong (Read 20054 times)

TallTitan34 · « **on:** July 23, 2009, 07:50:40 AM »

As George Carlin said "I'd like to begin by saying F Lance Armstrong."

Lance Armstrong is an arrogant a**hole. He says he is racing again for everyone with cancer. That's total BS. You are racing because you had become irrelivant again and had to sell more Livestrong gear again. If he wants to help those with cancer why did he leave his wife (who stuck with him through his battle) once she got cancer to go bang every young actress and singer in Hollywood. Even with all of this he had (not sure if he still has) a website telling people how to live their lives.

And now in the Tour de France since he is in 4th place and can't win he is proclaiming how he will be such a great teammate by helping a fellow American win. This from the same guy who wouldn't help his team at all when he was crusing to win after win. Only now when he can't win does he become a great teammate.

I am sick of the media glorifying this guy.

MU B2002 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 23, 2009, 07:53:27 AM »

Technically he is helping Alberto Contador win, a Spaniard.

TallTitan34 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 23, 2009, 07:55:43 AM »

You're right.

It's just funny how this is the first time he has given a damn about his team once he knows he can't win.

CAINMUTINY · « **Reply #3 on:** July 23, 2009, 08:05:41 AM »

Dude was actually incredibly nice when I ran into him at a party in NY; although he also totally took steriods after his bout with cancer. I mean who goes from chemo to tour de france champ in 6 months naturally?

If we were in his spot we would be doing the exact same thing he is......but TT is right he's getting really easy to hate.

Hards Alumni · « **Reply #4 on:** July 23, 2009, 08:16:57 AM »

LA is a good dude. He isn't a team mate, but never has been... rather, he has always been the horse on the team and was the guy that everyone helped to win because he was the strongest biker. This year, he is realizing that he isn't the strongest on the team and he said he would help his team mate win.

wow what a douche.

Funny that you accuse him of doing roids, yet he is the most tested athlete in the world... and he tested "positive" once (for EPO, not roids mind you) by a French (the French HATE LA) company, and it was only sample A, no confirmation with sample B.

yeah he sure is a dirtbag.

Livestrong isn't about making money for Lance, its about raising money for charity.

If you think the best endurance cyclist of all time isn't going to always be relevant, you are crazy.

ZiggysFryBoy · « **Reply #5 on:** July 23, 2009, 09:43:09 AM »

On the 4everwarriors scale of dudes with one nut, armstrong ranks below John Kruk and Tom Green.

pillardean · « **Reply #6 on:** July 23, 2009, 10:59:11 AM »

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 23, 2009, 08:16:57 AM

LA is a good dude. He isn't a team mate, but never has been... rather, he has always been the horse on the team and was the guy that everyone helped to win because he was the strongest biker. This year, he is realizing that he isn't the strongest on the team and he said he would help his team mate win.

+1

Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 23, 2009, 07:50:40 AM

As George Carlin said "I'd like to begin by saying F Lance Armstrong."

Lance Armstrong is an arrogant a**hole. He says he is racing again for everyone with cancer. That's total BS. You are racing because you had become irrelivant again and had to sell more Livestrong gear again. If he wants to help those with cancer why did he leave his wife (who stuck with him through his battle) once she got cancer to go bang every young actress and singer in Hollywood. Even with all of this he had (not sure if he still has) a website telling people how to live their lives.

And now in the Tour de France since he is in 4th place and can't win he is proclaiming how he will be such a great teammate by helping a fellow American win. This from the same guy who wouldn't help his team at all when he was crusing to win after win. Only now when he can't win does he become a great teammate.

I am sick of the media glorifying this guy.

So he was going through a bit of an internal crisis. I'm sure he was thinking, "damn, I wonder if I could do it all over again at age 37?"

He went out, trained and was up front for awhile. He was the biggest horse in the stable, the man that the 'teammates' were there for-at the beginning, maybe he was still that guy.

He realized Cantador is on top of the game right now, and he passed it on to him. In the stage 17 wrap-up the Astana director commented on what a team mate Lance was in that stage.

You say he wasn't a good teammate back when he was winning, I say wrong, he was a great teammate because he WAS winning for the same team, it made their job rewarding (not everyone wins or finishes on the podium, not every team has a winner)

Yeah his home life isn't the best, but then again we only surface information from tabloids rather than the in depth scenarios played out in Armstrong's relationship with his former wife and lovers. I'd be destroyed if my past love life was analyzed and scrutinized and I'm sure most of your would be as well.

It is nauseating that the media give him a BJ after each stage, but to say his a definitive dick is taking it to far. Lance is still a guy I can root for.

PuertoRicanNightmare · « **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2009, 11:20:14 AM »

Anybody who buys into Lance Armstrong's act is a fool. He's a well-known jerkoff.

ATWizJr · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2009, 11:41:57 AM »

yeah, i agree. what's to like about a cancer survivor who wins the tour 7 times and starts a foundation to help cancer victims?

I'd say he is entitled to be egotistical and the rest of you are entitled to be jealous.

Canned Goods n Ammo · « **Reply #9 on:** July 23, 2009, 11:55:02 AM »

Quote from: ATWizJr on July 23, 2009, 11:41:57 AM

yeah, i agree. what's to like about a cancer survivor who wins the tour 7 times and starts a foundation to help cancer victims?

I'd say he is entitled to be egotistical and the rest of you are entitled to be jealous.

Don't try to use facts. Use speculation only, please.

Lance is an douche. I've never met the guy, but I can just tell by the way he walks and talks.

His ex-wife is a saint and they never had any problems as a couple. He definitely should have stayed with her forever. The entire break-up is his fault because he has a huge ego.

Lance is evil, and anybody who can't see that is an idiot.

CAINMUTINY · « **Reply #10 on:** July 23, 2009, 11:57:56 AM »

At the time when I am alleging that LA did roids the test were far behind some of the designer steroids.

PRN - pot calling the kettle black? and have you ever met the dude? please

TallTitan34 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 23, 2009, 01:02:46 PM »

Come on guys. How can you have a website telling people how to live their lives and then leave your wife once she gets cancer.

I don't get why every other athlete gets hammered by the press when they split up from their wife while Lance gets a free pass.

MU B2002 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 23, 2009, 01:28:59 PM »

Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 23, 2009, 01:02:46 PM

I don't get why every other athlete gets hammered by the press when they split up from their wife while Lance gets a free pass.

I really don't think Wade or Shaq (altough they are back together) got hammered in the press.

Ahoya06 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 23, 2009, 02:30:29 PM »

+1,000,000 to the original post

NavinRJohnson · « **Reply #14 on:** July 23, 2009, 04:04:05 PM »

Welcome. I have been a card carrying member of the Lance Armstrong is a Douche Bag Club for many years now. From the Steroid/PED use, to the way he treated his family...the guy is a total fraud. Though he remains a hero to the criminally dumb, he is anything but a man to be looked up to or admired.

GGGG · « **Reply #15 on:** July 23, 2009, 04:10:16 PM »

Quote from: NavinRJohnson on July 23, 2009, 04:04:05 PM

Welcome. I have been a card carrying member of the Lance Armstrong is a Douche Bag Club for many years now. From the Steroid/PED use, to the way he treated his family...the guy is a total fraud. Though he remains a hero to the criminally dumb, he is anything but a man to be looked up to or admired.

Anyone who dislikes professional athletes because they are DBs aren't going to like many professional athletes.

ATWizJr · « **Reply #16 on:** July 23, 2009, 04:29:37 PM »

Quote from: NavinRJohnson on July 23, 2009, 04:04:05 PM

Welcome. I have been a card carrying member of the ~~~~Lance Armstrong is~~ a~~ Douche Bag Club for many years now. From the Steroid/PED use, to the way he treated his family...the guy is a total fraud. Though I remain criminally dumb, he is a man to be looked up to or admired.

more like it.....

NavinRJohnson · « **Reply #17 on:** July 23, 2009, 04:41:26 PM »

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 23, 2009, 04:10:16 PM

Anyone who dislikes professional athletes because they are DBs aren't going to like many professional athletes.

I don't like anyone who is a DB, pro athlete or otherwise, but frankly, give me a guy like Manny Ramirez any day. He's a DB, but doesn't hold himself up as something else as Lance Armstrong does.

Lance Armstrong is very simply a phony and a fraud.

NavinRJohnson · « **Reply #18 on:** July 23, 2009, 04:45:43 PM »

Quote from: ATWizJr on July 23, 2009, 04:29:37 PM

more like it.....

Though I remain criminally dumb, he is a man to be looked up to or admired.

Yeah...nice job. Really. So what you're saying is I am criminally dumb, and feel LA is a man to be looked up to and admired. Wouldn't that make him someone not to be looked up to or admired?

Sorry bud, your hero Lance Armstrong is a bad person, and a complete phony.

PuertoRicanNightmare · « **Reply #19 on:** July 23, 2009, 04:58:04 PM »

Quote from: NavinRJohnson on July 23, 2009, 04:45:43 PM

Sorry bud, your hero Lance Armstrong is a bad person, and a complete phony.

It amazes me that anybody would dispute this.

reinko · « **Reply #20 on:** July 23, 2009, 05:05:57 PM »

Navin, what exactly have you done to change the world in a positive way? Raised 10's of millions of dollars for cancer research?
Does LA have an ego? Of course, he is the greatest athlete in his sport ever. Name me another another great that didn't have one? Jordan, Gretzky, Ali...all had flaws, just like you and I.

So he broke up and cheated on his wife? So did millions of other people, including our boy DW. Same vitriol for him?

Nobody is perfect, and at least LA uses some of his celebrity for good, unlike the hundreds of other athletes that don't dick for their community.

It sounds like those who hate him, would rather him doing nothing with this celebrity status, than be a poster boy with a Live Strong campaign with TV commercials and T-Shirts that helps thousands of families.

g0lden3agle · « **Reply #21 on:** July 23, 2009, 05:10:16 PM »

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone.

jmayer1 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 23, 2009, 05:11:23 PM »

Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 23, 2009, 04:58:04 PM

It amazes me that anybody would dispute this.

It amazes me that people who have never met a guy would make such idiotic and broad statements based on what they've read in the tabloids. I don't know if he is a douche or not becuase I've never met him and won't base my sentiments on what US Weekly or People "reports." I have read reputable pieces about him winning the Tour de France and raising millions for cancer research, though.

Canned Goods n Ammo · « **Reply #23 on:** July 23, 2009, 05:11:40 PM »

Quote from: reinko on July 23, 2009, 05:05:57 PM

Navin, what exactly have you done to change the world in a positive way? Raised 10's of millions of dollars for cancer research?
Does LA have an ego? Of course, he is the greatest athlete in his sport ever. Name me another another great that didn't have one? Jordan, Gretzky, Ali...all had flaws, just like you and I.

So he broke up and cheated on his wife? So did millions of other people, including our boy DW. Same vitriol for him?

Nobody is perfect, and at least LA uses some of his celebrity for good, unlike the hundreds of other athletes that don't dick for their community.

It sounds like those who hate him, would rather him doing nothing with this celebrity status, than be a poster boy with a Live Strong campaign with TV commercials and T-Shirts that helps thousands of families.

Don't you f-ng get it?

It doesn't matter what Lance does. He could save a baby from a burning building and I'd still hate him.

HE IS A DOUCHE. I'VE NEVER MET HIM, BUT I'M POSITIVE THAT HE IS A HORRIBLE PERSON.

TallTitan34 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 23, 2009, 05:15:13 PM »

The difference is that Jordan, Gretsky, Wade, Shaq, A-Rod, etc don't proclaim themselves to be holier than thou and tell people how to live their lives. Lance Armstrong does.

LA telling you how to live your life is like Steve McNair telling you how to live your life.

reinko · « **Reply #25 on:** July 23, 2009, 05:22:35 PM »

TT, when has LA given relationship advice? If you have a source, then great, not trying to be a dick, I thought most of his holier than stuff was how to live a physically healthy lifestyle...

TallTitan34 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 23, 2009, 05:28:47 PM »

His whole premise is he rides to help people with cancer.

Once his wife gets it he runs for the hills of Hollywood to bang young actresses. That seems hypocritical to me, no? When his wife needed him more than ever he runs. The same wife who stuck with him when he cancer by the way.

NavinRJohnson · « **Reply #27 on:** July 23, 2009, 05:38:53 PM »

Quote from: reinko on July 23, 2009, 05:05:57 PM

Navin, what exactly have you done to change the world in a positive way? Raised 10's of millions of dollars for cancer research?

Is that a serious question? The guy raises money on the back of a drug induced string of Tour de France wins, and we are supposed to celebrate him for that? I suppose he deserves some credit for the money he raised, but what has he done to change the lives of his wife and his kids in a positive way? Money?

As far as what I've done, you tell me who you would prefer your kids to model their behavior after...

1. A guy who reaches the highest levels in his chosen sport, and gives/helps raise money for charity, uses Illegale PEDs, and cheats on/leaves his wife and children.
2. Guy who works hard for a small, growing company, gives/helps raise money for charity, spends much time with his wife and kids, and teaches them via words and example.

As to your question, what have I done to change the world in a positive way....see Number 2 above for starters.

jmayer1 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 23, 2009, 05:42:50 PM »

Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 23, 2009, 05:28:47 PM

His whole premise is he rides to help people with cancer.

Once his wife gets it he runs for the hills of Hollywood to bang young actresses. That seems hypocritical to me, no? When his wife needed him more than ever he runs. The same wife who stuck with him when he cancer by the way.

Can you please show me a story where it indicates she got cancer, I found no evidence of this.

TallTitan34 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 23, 2009, 05:57:54 PM »

Hummm when I search I just get stuff about his cancer and divorcing his wife. I could swear I heard she has it. I'll search better when I get to a computer and off my phone.

NavinRJohnson · « **Reply #30 on:** July 23, 2009, 06:18:17 PM »

Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 23, 2009, 05:57:54 PM

Hummm when I search I just get stuff about his cancer and divorcing his wife. I could swear I heard she has it. I'll search better when I get to a computer and off my phone.

Didn't Sheryl Crowe (You know, the chick he left his family for) have breast cancer? Could that be what you're thinking of? Maybe I'm wrong, but without looking, I thought she did.

reinko · « **Reply #31 on:** July 23, 2009, 06:24:44 PM »

Navin, your hyperbole is hilarious..

1.) Lance never tested for PEDs.
2.) He was caught with a higher than normal EPO level which is produced naturally in the body once out of 1000's of tests, yes, 1000's of drug tests from a shady French labratory. http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Lance_Armstrong_accused_of_EPO_doping
3.) So your marriage worked out and LA's didn't, want a medal?
4.) Have you ever met him? What kind of father is he? How many kids does he have? Do him and his and son have a catch every now and again?
5.) Have proof that he cheated on his wife? Pictures? Video?

NavinRJohnson · « **Reply #32 on:** July 23, 2009, 06:44:12 PM »

Are we really going to have the he never tested positive discussion? How many drug tests did Barry Bonds fail? Must mean he didn't take anything.

I'm sure he and Shreyl Crowe were just friends in 2003.

I know you want to believe the best about him, and don't want to believe any of these things that any reasonable person can see without really having to look. I guess I just don't understand why.

reinko · « **Reply #33 on:** July 23, 2009, 07:03:51 PM »

I guess in your world it is easier to assume guilt, then wait and wait and wait.

I could care less about LA, I just find your logic and arguments undeniably weak. Sure, call me naïve, but I weirdly like evidence and proof to backup my arguments.

And with that, I retire from this thread.

Peace!

ATWizJr · « **Reply #34 on:** July 23, 2009, 07:17:27 PM »

Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 23, 2009, 05:57:54 PM

Hummm when I search I just get stuff about his cancer and divorcing his wife. I could swear I heard she has it. I'll search better when I get to a computer and off my phone.

no crap, sherlock. get your facts straight.

🏀 · « **Reply #35 on:** July 23, 2009, 07:24:43 PM »

Quote from: ATWizJr on July 23, 2009, 07:17:27 PM

no crap, sherlock. get your facts straight.

Straight fact: Armstrong is a giant tool.

ATWizJr · « **Reply #36 on:** July 23, 2009, 07:42:36 PM »

Quote from: marqptm on July 23, 2009, 07:24:43 PM

Straight fact: Armstrong is a giant tool.

and you mon frere, as we say on the tour and phonetically for you, are an EEDEEOH.

Let me know if you need help with the translation.

🏀 · « **Reply #37 on:** July 23, 2009, 08:08:57 PM »

Quote from: ATWizJr on July 23, 2009, 07:42:36 PM

and you mon frere, as we say on the tour and phonetically for you, are an EEDEEOH.

Let me know if you need help with the translation.

So you're on the tour? Get your mouth off of the man's junk, he was a mediocre cyclist until he has ball and brain cancer. Two years later and one less ball and he's the greatest ever? Completely natural?

Once he achieves his status in the world after juicing he dumps his wife for the Hollywood beef, can't have the old standard wife holding back his Hollywood status.

His bracelet sales only went to cancer research after being sold for over six months, after the initial surge of sales.

Have you read his Twitter? It makes Madison frat boys look calm and modest.

An Olsen twin? Really?

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #38 on:** July 23, 2009, 08:25:33 PM »

Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 23, 2009, 05:28:47 PM

His whole premise is he rides to help people with cancer.

Once his wife gets it he runs for the hills of Hollywood to bang young actresses. That seems hypocritical to me, no? When his wife needed him more than ever he runs. The same wife who stuck with him when he cancer by the way.

I think he ran to the hills when his girlfriend (not wife) was out saying only use one square of toilet paper to wipe. That would drive anyone away.

Incidentally, his wife never had cancer. Sheryl Crow, his girlfriend, did have cancer but I think there are many reasons that relationship didn't work. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum philosophically, politically, etc.

g0lden3agle · « **Reply #39 on:** July 23, 2009, 08:33:34 PM »

Quote from: marqptm on July 23, 2009, 08:08:57 PM

So you're on the tour? Get your mouth off of the man's junk, he was a mediocre cyclist until he has ball and brain cancer. Two years later and one less ball and he's the greatest ever? Complety natural?

Once he achieves his status in the world after juicing he dumps his wife for the Hollywood beef, can't have the old standard wife holding back his Hollywood status.

His bracelet sales only went to cancer research after being sold for over six months, after the initial surge of sales.

Have you read his Twitter? It makes Madison frat boys look calm and modest.

An Olsen twin? Really?

And yet 4 years after retiring, he's currently in 3rd place behind his teammate and another biker, both of which have not been out of the tour as long as Lance. How can this be true and at the same time you feel that there is no way he was not cheating back when he won so many years in a row?

Another neat little factoid: remember the name Floyd Landis? He was caught doping only one year after Lance's incredible run of victories. So either Floyd was far dumber than Lance and was unable to fake out similar tests that Lance would have faked out just 1 year prior, or there is much more validity to Lance's feats than you care to admit.

I'm not saying I'd defend him to the death, but I'm pretty sure we've all heard the term "innocent until proven guilty" before.

GGGG · « **Reply #40 on:** July 23, 2009, 08:58:51 PM »

Quote from: g0lden3agle on July 23, 2009, 08:33:34 PM

I'm not saying I'd defend him to the death, but I'm pretty sure we've all heard the term "innocent until proven guilty" before.

That phrase is misapplied. His opinion is not a court of law.

g0lden3agle · « **Reply #41 on:** July 23, 2009, 09:07:47 PM »

True, but what worries me is that these opinions are being thrown around as facts.

ATWizJr · « **Reply #42 on:** July 23, 2009, 10:52:57 PM »

No one has said that he's Mother Teresa. But, he has a right to make a living and it happens to be in a high profile profession .

So, it's inevitable that some are resentful of his success since he's getting pub, dating celebs and making big money while they jealously toil in anonymity desparately waiting for their fifteen minutes of fame.

Of course, they forget that he trains 500-700 miles a week on his bike, is the most tested athlete in the history of drug testing and has never come up dirty, took 3 1/2 years off the tour, broke his collarbone weeks before the 2009 Tour and is still sitting in 3rd place with 3 stages to go.

And, along the way, has donated millions of his earnings and raised countless additional dollars to help cancer victims.

I'd say you'd have to be damned confident having accomplished all these things. Might even have a bit of an ego.

I doubt the ACS and the patients he has helped give a crap about his twitter. Give us more "tools" like Armstrong please.

TallTitan34 · « **Reply #43 on:** July 24, 2009, 07:13:29 AM »

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 23, 2009, 08:25:33 PM

I think he ran to the hills when his girlfriend (not wife) was out saying only use one square of toilet paper to wipe. That would drive anyone away.

Incidentally, his wife never had cancer. Sheryl Crow, his girlfriend, did have cancer but I think there are many reasons that relationship didn't work. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum philosophically, politically, etc.

That must be it then. I can't find anything at all about his wife anywhere except for brief mentions of being LA's ex.

NavinRJohnson · « **Reply #44 on:** July 24, 2009, 07:52:15 AM »

Quote from: g0lden3agle on July 23, 2009, 08:33:34 PM

So either Floyd was far dumber than Lance and was unable to fake out similar tests that Lance would have faked out just 1 year prior, or there is much more validity to Lance's feats than you care to admit.

I'm not saying I'd defend him to the death, but I'm pretty sure we've all heard the term "innocent until proven guilty" before.

Remember the names Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire, Roger Clemens...It wasn't that long ago this same conversation took place about guys like that. I didn't need to see positive drug tests to know they were using back then, just as I don't need to see one for Lance Armstrong.

Innocent until proven guilty is very important...in the legal system. Evidence other than a failed drug test is still evidence. Turns out Columbus was right, the earth is in fact round.

People are free to live in their romantic little fantasy land in which they believe he accomplished what he accomplished by simply being more dedicated and working harder than the other guys, I assume because they got duped into buying his book, saw him as some sort of role model, or whatever, and are now simply too embarrassed to admit as much to themselves or anyone else.

He cheated his way to the pinnacle of his sport, and is an undesirable human being to boot.

Hards Alumni · « **Reply #45 on:** July 24, 2009, 08:03:36 AM »

Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 23, 2009, 05:15:13 PM

The difference is that Jordan, Gretsky, Wade, Shaq, A-Rod, etc don't proclaim themselves to be holier than thou and tell people how to live their lives. Lance Armstrong does.

LA telling you how to live your life is like Steve McNair telling you how to live your life.

this is the dumbest argument ever.

as for the ROIDS and PED's argument... PROVE IT, or shut it.

MU B2002 · « **Reply #46 on:** July 24, 2009, 08:21:20 AM »

Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 23, 2009, 05:15:13 PM

The difference is that Jordan, Gretsky, Wade, Shaq, A-Rod, etc don't proclaim themselves to be holier than thou and tell people how to live their lives. Lance Armstrong does.

LA telling you how to live your life is like Steve McNair telling you how to live your life.

Your last comment is in poor taste, and has no relevance to your original post.

NavinRJohnson · « **Reply #47 on:** July 24, 2009, 08:24:18 AM »

Quote from: MU_B2002 on July 24, 2009, 08:21:20 AM

Your last comment is in poor taste

Why?

Canned Goods n Ammo · « **Reply #48 on:** July 24, 2009, 08:30:47 AM »

Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 23, 2009, 05:15:13 PM

The difference is that Jordan, Gretsky, Wade, Shaq, A-Rod, etc don't proclaim themselves to be holier than thou and tell people how to live their lives. Lance Armstrong does.

LA telling you how to live your life is like Steve McNair telling you how to live your life.

Actually, let's be honest, Jordon DID tell everybody how to live. He told us to wear hanes, wear Nikes, drink gatorade, eat at McDonald's, use Rayovac batteries, etc.

Jordan is actually the model that all other athletes follow now (including Lance).

Just because Lance's message may not be as simple as "drink gatorade" doesn't mean he's a holier than thou douche.

You may not like what Lance is saying, and the media coverage of it may bug you. I get that.

But, don't try to convince me that he is a terrible guy. I don't know him. You don't know him. Let's not pretend that we do.

Canned Goods n Ammo · « **Reply #49 on:** July 24, 2009, 08:37:19 AM »

Quote from: NavinRJohnson on July 24, 2009, 07:52:15 AM

Remember the names Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire, Roger Clemens...It wasn't that long ago this same conversation took place about guys like that. I didn't need to see positive drug tests to know they were using back then, just as I don't need to see one for Lance Armstrong.

The difference is that those players were never tested back then.

Lance has been tested, and found clean. Over and over again.

Once testing began in baseball, some of the big names that were suspected either retired (Bonds, McGuire) or were caught (Manny, A-Rod, Palmero, Pettit)

Honestly, I could take or leave Lance Armstrong... but some of you guys are jumping to some pretty bold conclusions.

Do you think Lebron is on PEDs? I assume you do based upon your suspicion of LA. Nobody has ever physically dominated the NBA at such a young age like Lebron.

MU B2002 · « **Reply #50 on:** July 24, 2009, 08:38:49 AM »

Quote from: NavinRJohnson on July 24, 2009, 08:24:18 AM

Why?

When has Steve McNair tried to tell people how to live their lives? Did he make mistakes, yes. Was he killed because of said mistakes, yes. Is it unfortunate for his 4 kids, yes. Just thought it had no basis in this discussion and would not even have been brought up had Steve not been killed 2 weeks ago.

g0lden3agle · « **Reply #51 on:** July 24, 2009, 08:39:55 AM »

Quote from: NavinRJohnson on July 24, 2009, 07:52:15 AM

Remember the names Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire, Roger Clemens...It wasn't that long ago this same conversation took place about guys like that. I didn't need to see positive drug tests to know they were using back then, just as I don't need to see one for Lance Armstrong.

Innocent until proven guilty is very important...in the legal system. Evidence other than a failed drug test is still evidence. Turns out Columbus was right, the earth is in fact round.

People are free to live in their romantic little fantasy land in which they believe he accomplished what he accomplished by simply being more dedicated and working harder than the other guys, I assume because they got duped into buying his book, saw him as some sort of role model, or whatever, and are now simply too embarrassed to admit as much to themselves or anyone else.

He cheated his way to the pinnacle of his sport, and is an undesirable human being to boot.

I could continue the debate, but I try not to make a habit of trying to convert those that are clearly steadfast in their views. You think he clearly took steroids, I think the situation is much different than that of the MLB steroid age and am able to give Lance the benefit of the doubt.

I will say though that I had no clue muscoop was full of so many posters that are so close to Lance to be able to accurately make all these statements.

ATWizJr · « **Reply #52 on:** July 24, 2009, 09:11:18 AM »

Quote from: NavinRJohnson on July 24, 2009, 07:52:15 AM

Remember the names Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire, Roger Clemens...It wasn't that long ago this same conversation took place about guys like that. I didn't need to see positive drug tests to know they were using back then, just as I don't need to see one for Lance Armstrong.

Innocent until proven guilty is very important...in the legal system. Evidence other than a failed drug test is still evidence. Turns out Columbus was right, the earth is in fact round.

People are free to live in their romantic little fantasy land in which they believe he accomplished what he accomplished by simply being more dedicated and working harder than the other guys, I assume because they got duped into buying his book, saw him as some sort of role model, or whatever, and are now simply too embarrassed to admit as much to themselves or anyone else.

He cheated his way to the pinnacle of his sport, and is an undesirable human being to boot.

just another unsubstantiated opinion from someone who secretly wishes he were Armstrong. (ps consider this an unsubstantiated opinion)

Mayor McCheese · « **Reply #53 on:** July 24, 2009, 09:23:03 AM »

I think we are missing the mark on LA here.

Does he seem like a douche some of the time on TV? Possibly. Is he constantly on ESPN, the same way Tim Tebow is constantly on ESPN, which makes us hate him because he clogs up our sports watching with usual nonsense, YES. However what we are missing about LA, and something I have seen first hand(father with cancer).

He gives hope. To those with cancer, he gives hope, not by what he says, but how he overcame a huge battle with cancer, and went back to life doing what he wanted to do, and succeeded, about as well as you could succeed in his profession. The man has done more for people like my father and the millions of others that have fought and battled with cancer then just about anyone else. So he tried to bike again, and realized he can't win, however he HAS to say something because ESPN will interview him over and over, and he has to say something. For most athletes, they aren't approached constantly by the media. There are only a few on his status for his sport by being THE guy (Tiger Woods is the only one that really comes to my mind).

Calling LA a douchebag because now since he isn't winning he is coming up with excuses is like me calling out Tiger Woods for being a crybaby because every time he hits a shot he doesn't like he slams his club and pouts(which he does every time).

The biggest story and why everyone loves LA has little to do with how great of an athlete he is, but more with how he gave hope for millions of people across the globe, including someone close to me, and for that I can't say anything bad about the guy.

🏀 · « **Reply #54 on:** July 24, 2009, 10:38:26 AM »

Quote from: ATWizJr on July 24, 2009, 09:11:18 AM

just another unsubstantiated opinion from someone who secretly wishes he were Armstrong. (ps consider this an unsubstantiated opinion)

This is my favorite.

You guys really want to take it from LA, don't ya?

With cycling known worldwide as one of the dirtiest sport, how does someone dominant it unlike any other athlete has ever before, despite a rampant juicing epidemic in the sport?

If you need a test to show Lance isn't all human, I have a bridge to sell you.

Canned Goods n Ammo · « **Reply #55 on:** July 24, 2009, 10:58:07 AM »

Quote from: marqptm on July 24, 2009, 10:38:26 AM

With cycling known worldwide as one of the dirtiest sport, how does someone dominant it unlike any other athlete has ever before, despite a rampant juicing epidemic in the sport?

You're totally right. You've convinced me. I hate him now. (for the record, I didn't really love him to begin with, but now I definitely hate him).

Mayor McCheese, please tell your dad he's extremely naive and pretty stupid for finding some hope in Lance Armstrong.

As for the rest of us, we should thank the members of this board who have finally proven that Lance Armstrong is a juicing hypocrite who shouldn't be admired for anything that he has been able to accomplish.

Lance Armstrong is a bad person. Thank God I read this board and found out from people who know him really well, otherwise I might have accidentally bought a yellow bracelet and donated to his stupid charity.

EDIT: Spelling

🏀 · « **Reply #56 on:** July 24, 2009, 11:04:20 AM »

Quote from: 2002mualum on July 24, 2009, 10:58:07 AM

You're totally right. You've convinced me. I hate him now. (for the record, I didn't really love him to begin with, but now I definitely hate him).

Mayor McCheese, please tell your dad he's extremely naive and pretty stupid for finding some hope in Lance Armstrong.

As for the rest of us, we should thank the members of this board who have finally proven that Lance Armstrong is a juicing hypocrite who shouldn't be admired for anything that he has been able to accomplish.

Lance Armstrong is a bad person. Thank God I read this board and found out from people who know him really well, otherwise I might have accidentally bought a yellow bracelet and donated to his stupid charity.

EDIT: Spelling

I'm sorry, but I won't applaud a man that gave a false sense of hope to people. There is very little chance that he did what a normal human could do without juicing. LA and Nike then turned it into the biggest marketing campaign ever, and made a TON of money off of it (only fractions of it was donated).

He's also a man of questionable character that hasn't improved with his stardom.

ATWizJr · « **Reply #57 on:** July 24, 2009, 11:09:45 AM »

Quote from: marqptm on July 24, 2009, 11:04:20 AM

I'm sorry, but I won't applaud a man that gave a false sense of hope to people. There is very little chance that he did what a normal human could do without juicing. LA and Nike then turned it into the biggest marketing campaign ever, and made a TON of money off of it (only fractions of it was donated).

He's also a man of questionable character that hasn't improved with his stardom.

how does the fractions that were donated compare with your contribution? Typical post from a slacker criticizing an achiever.

Canned Goods n Ammo · « **Reply #58 on:** July 24, 2009, 11:18:19 AM »

Quote from: marqptm on July 24, 2009, 11:04:20 AM

I'm sorry, but I won't applaud a man that gave a false sense of hope to people. There is very little chance that he did what a normal human could do without juicing. LA and Nike then turned it into the biggest marketing campaign ever, and made a TON of money off of it (only fractions of it was donated).

He's also a man of questionable character that hasn't improved with his stardom.

This is a tough one, because I know where you are going with this.

I guess the best thing for me to say is an honest "I don't know".

I don't know if:

Lance Armstrong took PEDs
Lance Armstrong was a bad husband who bailed on his wife
Lance Armstrong was a bad boyfriend and bailed on Sheryl Crow
Lance Armstrong is a mean spirited guy
Lance Armstrong is really only racing now for fame and ego and not because he loves to race

I know some of you guys have your minds made up about these topics, and I guess that's fine. It's all opinion. But, none of you actually know him, so I'm surprised that you have such strong beliefs about this.

I just fall more into "I don't know him, and it seems like the majority of stuff he is doing is pretty good."

MU B2002 · « **Reply #59 on:** July 24, 2009, 11:26:46 AM »

Not PEDs...Just more oxygen in his blood and a heart that is slightly larger to pump more of that oxygen rich blood.

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/anatomyandphysiology/a/VO2_max.htm

GooooMarquette · « **Reply #60 on:** July 24, 2009, 11:48:46 AM »

Wow - there are a whole lotta folks here who really know nothing about cycling.

Regarding the comments that he was somehow a "bad teammate" when he was winning 7 straight Tours -- he was hired to win the yellow jersey, plain and simple. As such, his team very specifically told him to do whatever it took to gain time on the field, even if it cost other teammates time. (See Contador, Alberto, 2009 Tour de France). He wasn't supposed to help out other teammates, and he would have been ripped apart by team management (not to mention the public) if he'd have done so and it cost him the Tour.

Despite that, he regularly tried to throw his teammates a bone whenever it wouldn't jeopardize his chances. Go back to some earlier Tours and you'll find plenty of examples of how he gave guys like Hincapie and Landis opportunities to win stages after they helped him up the mountain. But I guess y'all forgot about that.

Or about how Lance is the only Tour winner in recent history to forego his share of the team winnings, letting his teammates and the team staff get bigger shares at his expense. Sure, he still had buckets of cash from Trek, Nike and all, but he could have still taken his share (like all other Tour winners) and nobody would have blinked an eye. Terrible teammate.

And now -- well, he is again doing exactly what his team hired him to do. At the beginning of the Tour, even the team said there was still a question as to whether Armstrong or Contador was the team's best hope for the jersey. But Lance said from the beginning that he would take a back seat to Contador as soon as Contador showed he was the stronger rider. In the past few stages, Contador eliminated any doubt that he's the guy, and Lance has done the right things as a teammate every step of the way -- often to the detriment of his own chances of a higher finish. In fact, there's a very good chance that he'd be in second right now instead of third if he'd have chased Contador up the road on a couple of the recent mountain stages.

I won't presume to tell anyone whether they should like Lance or not -- that's a totally subjective thing anyway, and it's fine if some people don't like the guy. But the comments about how he used to be such a bad teammate show how little many of you understand the sport or Lance's history with US Postal and Discovery.

As for his ego, find me any person in any sport who has comparable achievements without being all about ME, ME, ME. Tiger Woods, Inc? Right. Michael Jordan? Please. As for the others? Oh, right -- there really are no others today who can hold a candle to his achievements. Gee, wonder why the guy might have an ego. I'm sure none of you would have any ego if you were one of the best who ever lived at your job.

And like it or not, Lance has done as much for cancer research and giving cancer victims hope as any man on the planet. Yeah, that's right -- he's done more in his second career than most of you will ever do in your first. Seems only appropriate to hate the guy....

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #61 on:** July 24, 2009, 11:53:02 AM »

Quote from: marqptm on July 24, 2009, 11:04:20 AM

I'm sorry, but I won't applaud a man that gave a false sense of hope to people. There is very little chance that he did what a normal human could do without juicing. LA and Nike then turned it into the biggest marketing campaign ever, and made a TON of money off of it (only fractions of it was donated).

He's also a man of questionable character that hasn't improved with his stardom.

From what I can tell, he's not a normal human being.

ATWizJr · « **Reply #62 on:** July 24, 2009, 12:05:24 PM »

Quote from: GooooMarquette on July 24, 2009, 11:48:46 AM

Wow - there are a whole lotta folks here who really know nothing about cycling.

Regarding the comments that he was somehow a "bad teammate" when he was winning 7 straight Tours -- he was hired to win the yellow jersey, plain and simple. As such, his team very specifically told him to do whatever it took to gain time on the field, even if it cost other teammates time. (See Contador, Alberto, 2009 Tour de France). He wasn't supposed to help out other teammates, and he would have been ripped apart by team management (not to mention the public) if he'd have done so and it cost him the Tour.

Despite that, he regularly tried to throw his teammates a bone whenever it wouldn't jeopardize his chances. Go back to some earlier Tours and you'll find plenty of examples of how he gave guys like Hincapie and Landis opportunities to win stages after they helped him up the mountain. But I guess y'all forgot about that.

Or about how Lance is the only Tour winner in recent history to forego his share of the team winnings, letting his teammates and the team staff get bigger shares at his expense. Sure, he still had buckets of cash from Trek, Nike and all, but he could have still taken his share (like all other Tour winners) and nobody would have blinked an eye. Terrible teammate.

And now -- well, he is again doing exactly what his team hired him to do. At the beginning of the Tour, even the team said there was still a question as to whether Armstrong or Contador was the team's best hope for the jersey. But Lance said from the beginning that he would take a back seat to Contador as soon as Contador showed he was the stronger rider. In the past few stages, Contador eliminated any doubt that he's the guy, and Lance has done the right things as a teammate every step of the way -- often to the detriment of his own chances of a higher finish. In fact, there's a very good chance that he'd be in second right now instead of third if he'd have chased Contador up the road on a couple of the recent mountain stages.

I won't presume to tell anyone whether they should like Lance or not -- that's a totally subjective thing anyway, and it's fine if some people don't like the guy. But the comments about how he used to be such a bad teammate show how little many of you understand the sport or Lance's history with US Postal and Discovery.

As for his ego, find me any person in any sport who has comparable achievements without being all about ME, ME, ME. Tiger Woods, Inc? Right. Michael Jordan? Please. As for the others? Oh, right -- there really are no others today who can hold a candle to his achievements. Gee, wonder why the guy might have an ego. I'm sure none of you would have any ego if you were one of the best who ever lived at your job.

And like it or not, Lance has done as much for cancer research and giving cancer victims hope as any man on the planet. Yeah, that's right -- he's done more in his second career than most of you will ever do in your first. Seems only appropriate to hate the guy....
[/quote

Good points all, from someone who obviously has been following the sport. +1

🏀 · « **Reply #63 on:** July 24, 2009, 12:19:28 PM »

Quote from: ATWizJr on July 24, 2009, 11:09:45 AM

how does the fractions that were donated compare with your contribution? Typical post from a slacker criticizing an achiever.

What does it matter? I'm a Little Lebowski Urban Achiever. I know that I'm not a giant douche of a person like Lance Armstrong.

Maybe one day, I'll get cancer, juice up to epic proportions and then Nike can exploit my disease into a multi-million dollar campaign of pure profit. I just need an extremely fringe sport that already has integrity issues clouding it's legitimacy.

I'd appreciate it if you kept the personal attacks out of it as well.

TallTitan34 · « **Reply #64 on:** July 24, 2009, 12:23:36 PM »

Wouldn't Lance be the slacker for juicing up to win his races?

ATWizJr · « **Reply #65 on:** July 24, 2009, 12:24:45 PM »

Well, if you don't want to be personally attacked, don't engage in the yourself.

And why does it matter? You can't be serious.

Because even if he is the worst person in the world as you assert, his little fractions add up to millions of dollars and hope for untold numbers, i.e., his millions of dollars in donations trump your annual contribution by a sizeable factor.

ATWizJr · « **Reply #66 on:** July 24, 2009, 12:26:51 PM »

Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 24, 2009, 12:23:36 PM

Wouldn't Lance be the slacker for juicing up to win his races?

Can you prove it? A simple yes or no answer is all that is required.

TallTitan34 · « **Reply #67 on:** July 24, 2009, 12:32:53 PM »

Quote from: ATWizJr on July 24, 2009, 12:26:51 PM

Can you prove it? A simple yes or no answer is all that is required.

Yes.

6 urine samples taken from the cyclist during the prologue and five stages of the 1999 Tour de France, frozen and stored since at "Laboratoire national de dépistage du dopage de Châtenay-Malabry" (LNDD), had tested positive for Erythropoietin in recent retesting conducted as part of a research project into EPO testing methods. For years, it had been impossible to detect the drug, called erythropoietin, which builds endurance by boosting the production of oxygen-carrying red blood cells. The world governing body of cycling, Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI), did not begin using a urine test for EPO until 2001, two years after the samples were taken. This claim was based on an investigation in which they claimed to be able to match samples from the 1999 Tour that were used to hone the EPO test to Armstrong. To establish a link between Armstrong and the samples, the LNDD matched the tracking numbers on the samples with those on Armstrong's record with the UCI during the 1999 Tour.

rocky_warrior · « **Reply #68 on:** July 24, 2009, 12:35:33 PM »

Ok - locked.

I deleted the last two posts by PTM and ATWiz - so if you were enjoying this thread - you can thank those two for letting it devolve into a teenage pissing match. Grow up guys - and please self-moderate.

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