Hello Marq Fan

[Brewtown Andy]

I agree.  You are way overestimating Rivers ability.  He wasn't an impact player at Georgetown and they were an early exit NIT team this peast season.

Although he wasn't on that team, because he transferred last off season. 

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

If you're hanging your hopes on Jeremiah Rivers you're in for a long season. I would bet he won't even be a major part of your rotation once the Big Ten season starts.

[79Warrior]

So after one year you've determined that Buzz is an above average coach and Crean was downright awful, so awful he got hired by one of the top 5 programs of all time. 

+1. Could be a long season in Milwaukee with so many newcomers and losing 4 starters. Could be a whole different tune playing March 2010.   

[lurch91]

So after one year you've determined that Buzz is an above average coach and Crean was downright awful, so awful he got hired by one of the top 5 programs of all time. 

He got the job because he was an adequate coach at MU that knew how to shmooze alumni and run a squeaky clean program (which is what IU needed).  The IU AD HAD to get a safe pick to be coach, someone that could make the alumni happy and run a clean program above all.  Crean just happened to show just enough on the coaching side as to not be a head scratching pick.

[pbiflyer]

wrong....  hard work has us warm and fuzzy...  He is recruiting his ass off! 

Yeah, he ended up with the second best player in the entire city of Jacksonville, FL. Way to recruit. BTW, who got the best player there and a top 5 Florida kid, while TC got the leftovers? 

[pbiflyer]

Are all of you that are bringing up his "character flaws" basing this on the way he left?  What else did he do, you all make it sound like he beats children, and kicks puppies for fun, did he refuse to sign some autographs for sick kids?  .....  I grew up in Indiana during the Bob Knight era and I guarantee you TC cant be any more abrasive than the General was.....

Every one in the media likes him, his ex players like him, the IU ex players like him, and nobody nationally appears to have an axe to grind with him.  I am puzzled where all of this comes from.

that is why I made this post, to see if I could get some examples of his wrong doing...  but all I am getting is "opinions" on him.

But, seriously what did he do that was so offensive to everyone?

Go back and check his introduction speech at II,II and then go back and check his introduction speech at MU. Same speech, just substitute II,II where he said Marquette and 76, where he said 77 for his first memories of bball and desire to 1st coach. He says whatever it takes to endear himself to people, with little regard for the truth.

[pbiflyer]

So after one year you've determined that Buzz is an above average coach and Crean was downright awful, so awful he got hired by one of the top 5 programs of all time. 

Well, so did a couple other coaches that didn't turn out so well for that top 5 program. He doesn't really have very big shoes to fill.

[madtownwarrior]

a bit of a mocking of Indiana and Crean?

Link:  http://ncaabasketball.fanhouse.com/2009/06/16/it-could-be-worse-usc-ask-a-hoosier/

[Marquette84]

Go back and check his introduction speech at II,II and then go back and check his introduction speech at MU. Same speech, just substitute II,II where he said Marquette and 76, where he said 77 for his first memories of bball and desire to 1st coach. He says whatever it takes to endear himself to people, with little regard for the truth.

This isn't so strange if you actually lived through that era.  It sounds like you weren't around in the 1970's. 

For comparison, It would be similar to 12 year old today 20 years from now remembering Duke and UNC with equal levels of respect.  I would expect that if that kid was hired at UNC, he wouldn't mention how much he also loved Duke growing up at his press conference.

Sometimes I think you people are simply insane.  Crean was hired at MU--he never said we were the only team he ever loved--he simply said that he followed and respected MU growing up--a claim that doesnt' preclude also following and respecting other teams.

To give you the proper perspective, here are the end-of-year rankings for IU and MU for the 1974 through 1977 seasons:

1977: 
MU:  2
IU:  5

1976:
IU:  1
MU: 4

1975:
IU:  3
MU:  5

1974:
IU: 3
MU: 7

When the two best Midwestern teams just happened to be MU and IU, and they both were neck-and-neck every year throughout the middle 70's, it doesn't surprise me to find that someone growing up in that era would have some memory and respect for both.

I know it probably makes you feel better to believe that Crean was lying, but if you look at what was actually going on in the 70's, its not surprising at all that MU and IU would both be part of anybody's remembrances of the era.

It's not like he said he had great respect for Wisconsin in the '70's.

[pbiflyer]

This isn't so strange if you actually lived through that era.  It sounds like you weren't around in the 1970's. 

For comparison, It would be similar to 12 year old today 20 years from now remembering Duke and UNC with equal levels of respect.  I would expect that if that kid was hired at UNC, he wouldn't mention how much he also loved Duke growing up at his press conference.

Sometimes I think you people are simply insane.  Crean was hired at MU--he never said we were the only team he ever loved--he simply said that he followed and respected MU growing up--a claim that doesnt' preclude also following and respecting other teams.

To give you the proper perspective, here are the end-of-year rankings for IU and MU for the 1974 through 1977 seasons:

1977: 
MU:  2
IU:  5

1976:
IU:  1
MU: 4

1975:
IU:  3
MU:  5

1974:
IU: 3
MU: 7

When the two best Midwestern teams just happened to be MU and IU, and they both were neck-and-neck every year throughout the middle 70's, it doesn't surprise me to find that someone growing up in that era would have some memory and respect for both.

I know it probably makes you feel better to believe that Crean was lying, but if you look at what was actually going on in the 70's, its not surprising at all that MU and IU would both be part of anybody's remembrances of the era.

It's not like he said he had great respect for Wisconsin in the '70's.

Actually, I think he was lying both times. He said whatever made people happy. I doubt that his first rememberances of basketball were either MU or II,II.
But if you go back the 10 years and look at both speeches, you will realize that it had nothing to do with either program. He lifted his MU speech, which was likely crap, and used it again at II,II.

[Marquette84]

Actually, I think he was lying both times. He said whatever made people happy. I doubt that his first rememberances of basketball were either MU or II,II.
But if you go back the 10 years and look at both speeches, you will realize that it had nothing to do with either program. He lifted his MU speech, which was likely crap, and used it again at II,II.

Now THERES a revelation!   A new coach in his first press conference saying something that made fans of his new team happy!  Wow--a new one on me.   

I'll have to start watching more first press conferences so I can find those honest coaches who on hiring say something like "Folks, I'm only here for the money" or "If I win here, I'll be able to use this job as a stepping stone to bigger and better things."  or "Don't forget, this school is way down in the pecking order" or "Remember, I'm not an alum so I'll never care as much as you do."

If you can find such an "honest" press conference, please do post it.  If saying things that make a team's fans happy is evidence of lying, then every single coach in America--every single one of them--is a liar.

As for your comment that he was lying BOTH times, it seems to me that it would have been downright impossible to grow up in the midwest during that era and NOT know about Marquette and Indiana (and UCLA perhaps Notre Dame).  Hell, I think it would be impossible for anyone in the country to not know these two programs.  As I said, it would be like a kid not knowing about UNC or Duke today. 

It's obvious you didn't live through that era--its likely that every kid in America at the time knew who Al McGuire and Bobby Knight were. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

a bit of a mocking of Indiana and Crean?

Link:  http://ncaabasketball.fanhouse.com/2009/06/16/it-could-be-worse-usc-ask-a-hoosier/

Sorry, I don't see the mocking.  Please explain

[ChicosBailBonds]

Now THERES a revelation!   A new coach in his first press conference saying something that made fans of his new team happy!  Wow--a new one on me.   

I'll have to start watching more first press conferences so I can find those honest coaches who on hiring say something like "Folks, I'm only here for the money" or "If I win here, I'll be able to use this job as a stepping stone to bigger and better things."  or "Don't forget, this school is way down in the pecking order" or "Remember, I'm not an alum so I'll never care as much as you do."

If you can find such an "honest" press conference, please do post it.  If saying things that make a team's fans happy is evidence of lying, then every single coach in America--every single one of them--is a liar.

As for your comment that he was lying BOTH times, it seems to me that it would have been downright impossible to grow up in the midwest during that era and NOT know about Marquette and Indiana (and UCLA perhaps Notre Dame).  Hell, I think it would be impossible for anyone in the country to not know these two programs.  As I said, it would be like a kid not knowing about UNC or Duke today. 

It's obvious you didn't live through that era--its likely that every kid in America at the time knew who Al McGuire and Bobby Knight were. 

Have to agree.  IU and MU were two of the top 5 programs of the 1970's along with UCLA, Kentucky and hard to say for #5....a handful of teams vying for that spot (UNC, NC State, etc).

When I think back at my first memories at that age, I don't think of just one team, I think of many which is likely what Crean was referencing.  I think of the Steelers and the Cowboys in the NFL, the Dodgers and Yankees and the Reds in baseball.  So if I'm fortunate enough to be named Manager of the Yankees and head coach of the Cowboys in the next 20 years, I'll feel comfortable knowing that if I say my earliest memories were of the Yankees (and then say the Cowboys when I get that gig) I won't be lying.   

[GGGG]

It was kind of like how Crean shunned Homer at a ton of events.

Frankly, that turns Crean into more of a sympathetic figure in my eyes.  I can't stand Homer either.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities that Crean did, indeed, grow up a fan of both Indiana and Marquette.

The point about the press conferences, however, is that his remarks were virtually identical. It's indicative of something. We know he's phony as hell, but is he really that lacking in originality? Maybe it is that, considering he pulls everything he does out of leadership books. I hate to belabor a point (actually, I don't), but I cannot see how anybody can even stand the sight of him. He's that big a tool. He's the most disingenious, fake, completely lacking in character or personality individual that I can think of and I'm thrilled he's in Bloomington!

[4everwarriors]

Elequent man, beautiful bro. Truer words were never spoken.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Have to agree with PRN it is not so much what he said it is the fact that he said it.  He is a classless fool that has the originality and personality of a cow turd.  for example i loved to listen to Deane, Oneill, and now Buzzes shows and interviews not only for the insight that they brought but becuase they were intersting guys.  With Crean if you heard one interview you heard them all, i used to go to many post game press conferences especially Higgins, Pitino, and such... lots of fun, Crean like a cold bowl of oatmeal.  no character no personality.  maybe a parcell's quote if you were lucky.  

Some of you will remember i posted a mock speech that Crean would deliver at his introduction and almost nailed it word for word.  many people reacted strongly that Crean was an absolute loser for recycling his Mu speech before others pointed out i posted it hours before his press conference... and then they realized i still nailed it.  Point is the guy is plastic and a loser.  His teams will always underperform because he is afraid and over coaches.  his stall offense with a lead lost so many games beaucse he was nervous and played not to lose...indicative of a lack of character.

 http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8021.0

[pbiflyer]

Now THERES a revelation!   A new coach in his first press conference saying something that made fans of his new team happy!  Wow--a new one on me.   

I'll have to start watching more first press conferences so I can find those honest coaches who on hiring say something like "Folks, I'm only here for the money" or "If I win here, I'll be able to use this job as a stepping stone to bigger and better things."  or "Don't forget, this school is way down in the pecking order" or "Remember, I'm not an alum so I'll never care as much as you do."

If you can find such an "honest" press conference, please do post it.  If saying things that make a team's fans happy is evidence of lying, then every single coach in America--every single one of them--is a liar.

As for your comment that he was lying BOTH times, it seems to me that it would have been downright impossible to grow up in the midwest during that era and NOT know about Marquette and Indiana (and UCLA perhaps Notre Dame).  Hell, I think it would be impossible for anyone in the country to not know these two programs.  As I said, it would be like a kid not knowing about UNC or Duke today. 

It's obvious you didn't live through that era--its likely that every kid in America at the time knew who Al McGuire and Bobby Knight were. 

Yeah, it is obvious I didn't live through that era, I only graduated from Marquette in 84. But then again, I was pretty smart, so I could have graduated at a very young age.
So, you admit that his press conference was complete cr*p, both times, since you said that no first press conference is genuine. Thank you for making my point. I appreciate it.

[Marquette84]

Yeah, it is obvious I didn't live through that era, I only graduated from Marquette in 84. But then again, I was pretty smart, so I could have graduated at a very young age.

I guess you're just not smart enough to have remembered Al McGuire or Bobby Knight.

Funny--I grew up the exact same time as you and can still remember growing up and hearing about MU & McGuire, IU & Knight and UCLA & Wooden. 

But don't put your failings on anyone else.  Just because you have a bad memory doesn't mean everyone does.

So, you admit that his press conference was complete cr*p, both times, since you said that no first press conference is genuine. Thank you for making my point. I appreciate it.

I'm just curious--on the day you were hired, did you tell your boss the names of other companies you respected and would love to go work for?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I guess you're just not smart enough to have remembered Al McGuire or Bobby Knight.

Funny--I grew up the exact same time as you and can still remember growing up and hearing about MU & McGuire, IU & Knight and UCLA & Wooden. 

But don't put your failings on anyone else.  Just because you have a bad memory doesn't mean everyone does.

I'm just curious--on the day you were hired, did you tell your boss the names of other companies you respected and would love to go work for?

More personal attacks...I love it! Whenever SJS arguments collapse he goes on the attack!

[Skatastrophy]

I guess you're just not smart enough to have remembered Al McGuire or Bobby Knight.

Funny--I grew up the exact same time as you and can still remember growing up and hearing about MU & McGuire, IU & Knight and UCLA & Wooden. 

But don't put your failings on anyone else.  Just because you have a bad memory doesn't mean everyone does.

I enjoy that while you extol your age and intelligence you troll these forums like a 14 year old internet tough-guy.

Whether or not you're making valid points, your arguments would be far stronger without the attitude.

/2cents

[Marquette84]

I enjoy that while you extol your age and intelligence you troll these forums like a 14 year old internet tough-guy.

Whether or not you're making valid points, your arguments would be far stronger without the attitude.

/2cents

You are correct, and I apologize.  I'll make the point in as factual and attitude-free as possible:

• 
  It is a statement of fact that MU and IU were indeed prominent at the same time from 1974 through 1977
  
• 
  Al McGuire and Bobby Knight were both larger than life figures who were quite visible to the fan of the time.  Their respective schools--Marquette and Indiana--were in the news quite frequently, and received significant news and sports coverage.
  
• 
  Since I and several others recall following MU/McGuire and IU/Indiana during that era, It is possible for someone to be truthful about a statement that one  followed both IU and MU.
  
• Pbiflyer stated that despite growing up in that era, he doesn't remember MU/Al McGuire and IU/Bobby Knight being prominent at the same time.
  
• 
  Since Pbiflyer doesn't remember that era, he concludes that Crean is not honest when he says he followed both programs.
  
• 
  Pbiflyer has not offered any evidence that my statement of fact is incorrect, nor has he acknowledge it as correct and conceded the point that it is possible if not probable that Crean followed both programs growing up as well.
  
• 
  I reject pbiflyer's argument that because pbiflyer doesn't remember, Crean must be making it up.
  

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Who is denying Crean could have followed both Indiana and MU?

People are questioning...and for some reason you're defending...the fact that his statements at both press conferences were almost identical.

[dsfire]

• Pbiflyer stated that despite growing up in that era, he doesn't remember MU/Al McGuire and IU/Bobby Knight being prominent at the same time.
  

I can't find this, and I think if you're inferring it that might be where your argument is going off tack.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Who is denying Crean could have followed both Indiana and MU?

People are questioning...and for some reason you're defending...the fact that his statements at both press conferences were almost identical.

And I think the follow-up question is, so what.  If they were almost identical does that make them any less factual?  Isn't that the meat of the matter?  He remembered IU and MU growing up and mentioned to the appropriate constituency (the hiring fan base) about that particular school.

Is that not the case?

I get the impression some people here are saying that he lied about MU and really meant IU.  Or vice versa.  Why can't it be both?  Why can't it be that he followed two of the most prominent schools in basketball during that period and mentioned each in his comments to the fans, press, etc?

Why is this such a stretch?  I don't find it a stretch at all.  We all follow various teams, players, sports, etc.  He's just serving up comments to the fan base, in this case IU, that are appropriate for that group.