3 main ingredients for an elite program

[SERocks]

I cannot imagine firing Buzz and hiring another coach at this time...whether it would be the right move or not.  You don't give a guy one year a year that includes: 1)25-10, 2)NCAA tournament, 3)coach presents himself as solid ambassador of the University and 4)his kids are heading in the right life direction........and then you fire him?  WTF?

[Tom Crean's Tanning Bed]

I cannot imagine firing Buzz and hiring another coach at this time...whether it would be the right move or not.  You don't give a guy one year a year that includes: 1)25-10, 2)NCAA tournament, 3)coach presents himself as solid ambassador of the University and 4)his kids are heading in the right life direction........and then you fire him?  WTF?

I don't take the fire Buzz chatter seriously at all (and nor do you from your post), but you know what next year would look like if that were to happen?

Hint: It's Indiana, it's Indiana.

[AlienWarrior]

I cannot imagine firing Buzz and hiring another coach at this time...whether it would be the right move or not.  You don't give a guy one year a year that includes: 1)25-10, 2)NCAA tournament, 3)coach presents himself as solid ambassador of the University and 4)his kids are heading in the right life direction........and then you fire him?  WTF?

Yes ,you fire him .This is a BUSINESS  .  WTF ?  Spaces included

[ChicosBailBonds]

I cannot imagine firing Buzz and hiring another coach at this time...whether it would be the right move or not.  You don't give a guy one year a year that includes: 1)25-10, 2)NCAA tournament, 3)coach presents himself as solid ambassador of the University and 4)his kids are heading in the right life direction........and then you fire him?  WTF?

Absolutely agree and I honestly don't think anyone (at least I hope not) is suggesting firing the guy.  They certainly shouldn't.  He deserves his time to do his thing.  He had a good first year that had some security blankets built into the job in my opinion.  He's a good person, a good recruiter, and hopefully a quality basketball coach that will continue to get better.  Have to give him three more years, unless the next two are disasters which I don't suspect they will be.

Should be a wild ride.

[NavinRJohnson]

Yes ,you fire him .This is a BUSINESS  .  WTF ?  Spaces included

Well then ,since its BUSINESS ,let's go hire Kelvin Sampson .He had a ton of success .

[Tribby]

Absolutely agree and I honestly don't think anyone (at least I hope not) is suggesting firing the guy.  They certainly shouldn't.  He deserves his time to do his thing.  He had a good first year that had some security blankets built into the job in my opinion.  He's a good person, a good recruiter, and hopefully a quality basketball coach that will continue to get better.  Have to give him three more years, unless the next two are disasters which I don't suspect they will be.

Should be a wild ride.

I'm about as anti-Buzz as anyone, and even I don't think you can fire him this offseason. I have serious doubts about his ability as a coach, but he hasn't yet had an adequate chance to prove me wrong. And I hope he does.

[AlienWarrior]

Absolutely agree and I honestly don't think anyone (at least I hope not) is suggesting firing the guy.  They certainly shouldn't.  He deserves his time to do his thing.  He had a good first year that had some security blankets built into the job in my opinion.  He's a good person, a good recruiter, and hopefully a quality basketball coach that will continue to get better.  Have to give him three more years, unless the next two are disasters which I don't suspect they will be.

Should be a wild ride.






I don't want a wild ride with an unproven coach .Yes ,he may work out .But why take that chance over the next 3-4 or more years .Crean put us in the position for an elite hire . We don't need to settle for a  project . Elite coaches WILL want to coach here now. We have the bucks to afford one with the major donations we have received .Sorry I don't know what I did wrong to put my remark together with Chicos

[AlienWarrior]

I don't want a wild ride with an unproven coach .Yes ,he may work out .But why take that chance over the next 3-4 or more years .Crean put us in the position for an elite hire . We don't need to settle for a  project . Elite coaches WILL want to coach here now. We have the bucks to afford one with the major donations we have received .Repeat ,I am not anti-Buzz but pro an elite hire

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't want a wild ride with an unproven coach .Yes ,he may work out .But why take that chance over the next 3-4 or more years .Crean put us in the position for an elite hire . We don't need to settle for a  project . Elite coaches WILL want to coach here now. We have the bucks to afford one with the major donations we have received .Sorry I don't know what I did wrong to put my remark together with Chicos

That was my original argument 12 months ago....we were paying $1.6M per year, finally had the facilities, had the conference and had all the momentum....thus try to get an elite coach.  Try to make a statement.  Try to hire like the upper echelon does.  I mean, was Memphis any better at the time they hired Caliprari then MU last year?  Nope.  But we like to do things a bit differently.

I understand the wild ride concern, but it's inevitable.  3 huge players graduating, Williams and Taylor backing out of their commitments mean next year is YOUNG YOUNG YOUNG in both years and experience.  That equals wild ride in my opinion.

[Pakuni]

Timing is also a huge factor in whether or not a school like Marquette could get an elite coach. Looking back on it, I really wish Crean would have left after the Final Four.

Tim Floyd and a few other big names were available then and probably would have been interested in the job.

So yes, I agree that what we are missing is an elite coach.

Tim Floyd? Ugh.
Do you really want a who runs a shady program and whose teams perpetually underachieve?

[bma725]

I don't want a wild ride with an unproven coach .Yes ,he may work out .But why take that chance over the next 3-4 or more years .Crean put us in the position for an elite hire . We don't need to settle for a  project . Elite coaches WILL want to coach here now. We have the bucks to afford one with the major donations we have received .Repeat ,I am not anti-Buzz but pro an elite hire

MU is not in the position for an elite coach.  No elite coach is going to leave their job to come here, we're not a stop up.  No elite coach that is currently retired or working in the pros is going to come here either.  The only choice you've got is between up an coming assistants, mid major coaches, and retreads that didn't work out at their last job.  We're never going to be the place that goes and gets the head coach from another major school.

Despite what you may want to believe, the reality is that Crean's success did not turn MU into a destination job.  It improved Crean's standing in the coaching community, but that's it.  MU is still seen by a lot of the great coaches out there as a place that used to be important, as a place that is over it's head in the Big East, and as a place to stay away from because too much work is required to make it to the top.  Money doesn't change that unless it's T Boone Pickens money, and we don't have that.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm sorry Alien, and I usually hate when other people nitpick off topic, but I find this one just bizarre... what's up with the space before the punctuation? Commas, periods, etc. go right after the last word, not right before the next one.

Maybe not in Alien's galaxy.

[AlienWarrior]

Every year is a "wild ride" at any program with any coach . I want and I think many here want a "wild ride" with an elite coach . I want that third ingredient NOW . I don't want to take the chance with an unknown coach . We could get even better recruits with Calipari.

[bma725]

Every year is a "wild ride" at any program with any coach . I want and I think many here want a "wild ride" with an elite coach . I want that third ingredient NOW . I don't want to take the chance with an unknown coach . We could get even better recruits with Calipari.

And we'd compromise what we are as a university to do it, so it will never happen.

MU is never going to hire a guy with as many skeletons in the closet as Cal or Tim Floyd or anyone like that.

[AlienWarrior]

And we'd compromise what we are as a university to do it, so it will never happen.

MU is never going to hire a guy with as many skeletons in the closet as Cal or Tim Floyd or anyone like that.

You have a point ,MU won't hire a guy like Calipari or Floyd or Knight .These are the Holy Jesuits we are dealing with ,I forgot .Ok,I opened up the can of worms ,Come get me .

[NavinRJohnson]

Crean put us in the position for an elite hire . We don't need to settle for a  project . Elite coaches WILL want to coach here now.

Name them. Maybe you weren't around, but MU just went through this exercise a year ago, and were not able to draw interest from Tony Bennet or Sean Miller, let alone ELITE coaches. Buzz would not have been my first choice, but who are the ELITE coaches who want to coach here now?

Certainly you are not suggesting that MU can compete with Memphis or Arizona for Calipari.  If there is any truth to the Arizona rumors, it would not even be worth the time of the phone call for someone at MU to reach out to him. MU would be a distant third on that 3 school list.

[AlienWarrior]

I agree we can't compete with AZ unless they go deeper into the Tourney which would make it more difficult for them to get rid of their coach . Anyway ,all I am saying ,if a big name comes up ,we should entertain an offer . What I am afraid of is we will get our share of tourney bids ,reach the sweet 16 from time to time but will never be serious contenders for a final 4 or be a top 5 team. Sorry ,I want to shoot for the stars .I guess thats part of my alien nature.

[muwarrior69]

MU is not in the position for an elite coach.  No elite coach is going to leave their job to come here, we're not a stop up.  No elite coach that is currently retired or working in the pros is going to come here either.  The only choice you've got is between up an coming assistants, mid major coaches, and retreads that didn't work out at their last job.  We're never going to be the place that goes and gets the head coach from another major school.

Despite what you may want to believe, the reality is that Crean's success did not turn MU into a destination job.  It improved Crean's standing in the coaching community, but that's it.  MU is still seen by a lot of the great coaches out there as a place that used to be important, as a place that is over it's head in the Big East, and as a place to stay away from because too much work is required to make it to the top.  Money doesn't change that unless it's T Boone Pickens money, and we don't have that.

I attended MU in McGuire's 2nd year, 1965, his first reruiting class and first big star George Thomson. McGuire wet 14-12 his first 2 seasons. If we had boards like this back in 1965, McGuire would have been considered one of the worst hires as basketball coach. Calhoun and Beheine (spelling?) were not successful for many years at Uconn and Cuse. All hires are a risk. Buzz reminds me of Al. You get the players I am a great coach, you don't show me the door. Hope Buzz has a run like Al did, but Buzz's job is twice as hard. Looking forward to next season.

[Pakuni]

That was my original argument 12 months ago....we were paying $1.6M per year, finally had the facilities, had the conference and had all the momentum....thus try to get an elite coach.  Try to make a statement.  Try to hire like the upper echelon does.  I mean, was Memphis any better at the time they hired Caliprari then MU last year?  Nope.  But we like to do things a bit differently.

What elite coaches were out there for the taking? Give some names of coaches who were a) looking for a new gig and b) interested in the Marquette job. As far as I can tell, that eliminates Miller and Bennett, who turned down more money from a more prestigious program than MU. And, really, who other than Wisconsin types believes Tony Bennett is an elite coach.

Secondly, plenty of the the upper echelons hire exactly the way MU did. I went through this yesterday, but didn't Pitt promote from within? Didn't Gonzaga? Didn't Xavier? Didn't Villanova, in a roundabout way?
And the fact is, no matter how some wish it weren't so, Marquette is much, much closer to those schools than to "upper echelon" programs that can steal an elite coach from another school (i.e. UNC, Kansas, UCLA). Sorry, but MU is not prying Calipari from Memphis or Donovan from Florida. Or even Miller from Xavier. Most would cosnider that a step down, and none of those guys are looking to make a step down.

[Tommy Brice for Coach]

And we'd compromise what we are as a university to do it, so it will never happen.

MU is never going to hire a guy with as many skeletons in the closet as Cal or Tim Floyd or anyone like that.

+1

I'll take finishing 25-10 in the second round in the NCAAs with 100% Graduation and Buzz Williams over making the final four with some miserable graduation rate with Calpari any day of the year.

We are an upstanding institution in every way, and hiring a coach like Calpari would ruin that image.

[Tribby]

You have a point ,MU won't hire a guy like Calipari or Floyd or Knight .These are the Holy Jesuits we are dealing with ,I forgot .Ok,I opened up the can of worms ,Come get me .

If you'd rather root for a school that sacrifices integrity for wins, go someplace else. We don't want you here, and you'd be happier elsewhere anyway.

[SCdem@MU]

From which perspective? 

On court, yes, we underachieved both years and whiffed badly in recruiting in 2003 and 2004 (of those classes, only Marcus Jackson, Mike Kinsella, and Barro finished at MU). But don't forget that the 2004-2005 team got off to a 12-1 start, and Diener only played in 8 conference games (bad ankle before breaking the hand).  When he was on the floor and healthy, it was a good team, probably an NCAA team even.  When he was hurt, it was a miserable team. 

Off-court, let's see: we get an invite to the Big East, and we land the Amigos.  Those two things set the stage for the next four years, as brutal as the on-court product was.

I don't see how Crean leaving after the Final Four could have caused recruiting in 2003 and 2004 to be any worse, perhaps another coach could have done better?

I also think that Marquette gets the invite to the BE without Crean as well.

This is probably a silly discussion b/c there is nothing we can do about the past, but I was simply pointing out that we had a better chance of hiring a big name "elite" coach in 2003 than we did when Crean left last year.

[Warrior Forever]

You have to have continued success over many years.  Right now, Xavier has a better program than we do.  However, I believe that Buzz is moving us in the right direction.

Go Warriors. Crush 2009-2010.

Now, Go Cubbies.

[SCdem@MU]

Tim Floyd? Ugh.
Do you really want a who runs a shady program and whose teams perpetually underachieve?

Tim Floyd isn't that shady. Can't really blame the OJ Mayo situation on him... the NCAA investigated it before they even let him enroll and cleared him.

I agree that giving Romeo Miller a scholarship to land DeRozan is a little shady, but other than that I think Tim Floyd is a fairly honorable coach.

The guy has largely won at programs that have had zero business being successful from Idaho to UNO to ISU.

With his midwest connections and NBA resume, I think it would have been a perfect fit and at the time he was on the way out with the Bulls and looking for job.

[SCdem@MU]

I'm about as anti-Buzz as anyone, and even I don't think you can fire him this offseason. I have serious doubts about his ability as a coach, but he hasn't yet had an adequate chance to prove me wrong. And I hope he does.

Agree. I'm also fairly anti-Buzz (hell, I called him numnuts the other day), but you have to give him 2-3 years to see what he can do with his own players.

So far he has shown to be a hell of a first year recruiter, but whether he can pull of multiple recruiting classes of this caliber remains to be seen. My fear with Buzz is that he may not have a clue as to how to develop that talent or make the correct in game decisions.

I hope he proves me wrong.