US Economy thread

[rocket surgeon]

Rocket

My bad. My kids lived on campus, but after they graduated. They came home for one reason, to save money. As I mentioned, I hope that every scooper can help their kids in the same manner.

You did good, Rocket!!!

  thanks goose, you know my boys and I've met yours as well-great americans

my oldest did live at home for about 6 mos while he and his fiance saved for their house

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Good to know we are only accepting articles from an, as yet, undetermined time frame.  What are we looking for?  Do you expect the sourced data from that article change?  No?  Only an article from the last year?  An NPR interview will do, obviously.

Will the goal posts continue to move?

If you think data that is nine years old supports your opinion, that's fine.

I don't though. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I'm not sure if you're referring to me here, but I'm significantly more concerned for the poorest third of the country than the middle third, although I do think the gap between the top 10% and the rest of us will continue to grow.

Sultan --

Apologies in advance if this is scattered as I haven't had time to organize my thoughts, but when I said rewards, I meant I don't believe we're benefitting nearly as much when making "smart" choices.

The average college graduate starting salary has increased about 37% since 2000 according to the National Center for Education Statistics. A 75th percentile salary was 72K in 2000 and 95K in 2023, an increase of 31%. Over that same time period, cost of living is up 70%. In the same timeframe, tuition costs are up 65%. Rent is up 73%. Mortgage rates are about the same, but property values are much higher. Which is great when you already have had property but much worse for first time homebuyers with higher debt to income ratios than we've seen in the past. These aren't small costs and when you think of what that means in terms of monthly expenses and revenues, it becomes very difficult to accumulate wealth at the same pace as past generations.

A higher percentage of college graduates are working as consultants instead of as full time employees. This isn't by choice. Corporations are offering less and less full time positions as they look to save money. So in addition to salaries not keeping up with inflation, people now have to pay more for healthcare, other benefits, and get less time off. A similar percentage of the workforce is earning minimum wage as 20 years ago, but the minimum wage hasn't increased or has barely increased in most places.

Major costs are all rising significantly faster than incomes. We're expected to cover a higher percentage of those costs, as corporations cover less. After the same expenses, we are seeing a much smaller percentage of our income than previous generations. And unless something changes drastically, the next generation will see an even smaller percentage of their incomes. The stock market is doing well, but we're able to put a lower and lower percentage of our money into it, making wealth accumulation more difficult. And that's not even to get into the significantly harsher challenges that the poorest third of the country have to face but aren't part of my reality.

And again, I'm not trying to complain. I'm sure there are positive strides we've made that I'm unaware of. I need to continue to become more educated on this topic. The reality is the reality and we need to individually and collectively find a way to navigate it. But in my opinion, too many people are denying the reality. Individually, we can still find ways to succeed. Collectively, it looks bleaker and bleaker with each passing year, and it will only become a bigger problem unless we all acknowledge it.

I'll try to expand on my positions later.

EDIT: Completely agree with Hards on trades professions. That's one area where there is a lot more opportunity than in the past.

EDIT 2: I enjoyed this Ted Talk if anyone has time to spend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJ4hkpQW8E

I appreciate this response. I've read it twice and will look at it more carefully later.

[Goose]

Rocket

No doubt that our boys are GREAT Americans. I frickin love it!!

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Rocket

No doubt that our boys are GREAT Americans. I frickin love it!!

lol.

[Skatastrophy]

lol.

You're a great american, lol

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You're a great american, lol

Thanks. As are you.

[Goose]

Fluff

Why is it that I love my boys is funny to you? Is there something wrong with being proud of my kids? I seriously have no idea how any adult would laugh about a parent loving their kids.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Fluff

Why is it that I love my boys is funny to you? Is there something wrong with being proud of my kids? I seriously have no idea how any adult would love about a parent loving their kids.

That's not why I'm laughing.

[Goose]

Then why are you laughing?

[rocket surgeon]

Then why are you laughing?

  ...OUT LOUD

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Then why are you laughing?

You're (unintentionally) humorous.

[Goose]

Fluff

What was unintentionally humorous? Maybe you taking the bait was the joke.

[Skatastrophy]

  ...OUT LOUD

lol means lots of love

[jesmu84]

Speaking of college...do y'all remember when you could work a summer job and pay for your tuition?

[tower912]

No.

[rocky_warrior]

You're a great american, lol

You are an inconsistently outstanding American.

[Skatastrophy]

You are an inconsistently outstanding American.

Thanks Rocky, you're also a notable American

[tower912]

...now everybody, do the propoganda
and sing along to the age of paranoia...

[JWags85]

But that's not what the post gen X generations were told.

"Go to college. Accrue a little debt. Your reward is a financially stable, middle class life."

Multiple generations have kept up their part.

Instead, they're saddled with an enormous amount of debt. They're being underpaid in relation to inflation and/or production (and getting worse every year).

Not to mention near-zero chance of a middle class lifestyle with children on one income as the boomers enjoyed.

I'm not entirely victim blaming, but the idea of "go to college and you'll be fine no matter what" hasn't been true for 20 years.  People using that myth to justify complaining that they can't find a job or they are underemployed with a degree from a middling university in a silly major.  Some of that definitely falls to parents for buying into it, but it wasn't a prevailing theme even recently.

I graduated HS in 2003 and even then my parents and my friends parents were very much of the mentality of "we'll help you with school, but make sure its a degree with value."  Hell, I was a Psych major (eventually double major) and I had to work out what I planned to do with it for my dad and my grandfather (one for college help, the other for avoiding stern lectures about my future).   I got into a good school so I was fortunate, but my neighbor who was a year younger ended up going to CC for 2 years and transferring to Marquette (instead of going 4 years at a lower level school), not in small part to discussions his father and my father had.

I'm firmly a millennial and I have siblings aged across the next decade into the zoomers, so I have a broad scope of viewpoints and experiences of the age range.  I don't disagree with some of the points, what I do disagree with is supposedly smart people (both parents and children) who employed little to no critical thinking and now perpetually complain about the system.  For everyone first generation college grad with a ton of debt who is underemployed (who has truly been screwed and I feel for) you have another one or two 20 somethings who graduated with a 3.0 from a mid level university with a marketing degree and expect a very well paying job because they have a degree.
 
Also, for your statement about middle class income, I think people havent scaled what they think of as middle class.  I saw median income for middle class nationally was roughly $91K.  I know 3 different friends/family who make within $10K of that number who are a single earner household with 1-2 kids.  They don't live in Lincoln Park or Brookfield or Highland Park (they are in Chicago, MKE, and Dallas burbs respectively) but they have no issue with it.  I would cede that its tougher with current interest rates, but 2 of them bought in the 4% range (the other still rents a 3BR apartment).  I feel like people making the "middle class can't do XYZ" argument still view middle class as $60-70K.