History of #thething

[Nukem2]

You're on the right track. AVERAGE ppp is about 1.05 these days (these days = past couple of years). If you're at 1.10 you're flirting with a top 50 ppp offense.

The reality is teams rarely shoot less than 60% FT over a season (in 2016-17, exactly one team shot worse than 61%).

At 60%, you're scoring around 1.2 ppp when you go to the line (front ends, and-one's, and offense rebounds alter it a bit, but largely offset). 1.2 ppp is elite offense. So, if you're one of the worst FT% teams in college basketball, going to the line is still elite offense. So, as you mentioned... FTrate has some importance (although it's by far the lowest of the four factors)...

FT% and a team's ppp do not correlate well. If I tell you a team is a top 30 eFG% team, it's a good guess that that team has a very good offensive ppp. If I tell you a team is a top 30 FT%, it doesn't tell you jack (e.g., #FTsNoMatta).

A dumb thing many people cry about is their team's FT%. "Team X only shoots 65% from the line! That will crush their season! They are FREE! Oh my gosh, how bad!!"

But the truth is we've seen 69% to 70% average FT% each year for decades. It's actually amazing (slight uptick to 70.4% last season). Free throws aren't free. The origin of the name comes from a time when free throws weren't shot - points were simply awarded based on a foul. Those were truly 'free' points. The name has stuck, but... it's completely bizarre and academically stupid that many argue they are losing games because their team shot 65% at the line instead of an average 70%.... yet many people do it.

#FTsNoMatta

JB, you are really missing the point on all these discussions.  We get what you are saying from a global viewpoint. But but, situationally in many many games, FTs are damned important.  Yah, those misses in the first half ar meaningless.  Those misses in the last minute are monumental.

[GGGG]

JB, you are really missing the point on all these discussions.  We get what you are saying from a global viewpoint. But but, situationally in many many games, FTs are damned important.  Yah, those misses in the first half ar meaningless.  Those misses in the last minute are monumental.

No kidding. It's always better to hit shots than to miss them.

[Jay Bee]

JB, you are really missing the point on all these discussions.  We get what you are saying from a global viewpoint. But but, situationally in many many games, FTs are damned important.  Yah, those misses in the first half ar meaningless.  Those misses in the last minute are monumental.

No, I'm not missing the point. Again, the point is that #FTsNoMatta means TEAM FT% IS OF LITTLE TO NO RELEVANCE TO WINNING BASKETBALL GAMES. That's the point and it's factual.

If your team has a breakaway layup with 1 second left, down by one, and a player sneezes and doesn't get a good shot off, that sneeze was 'monumental'.

#FTsNoMatta
#SneezesCanMatta

It's like saying that a football team that won by 17 points "didn't even need" the 2 TDs it scored early in the 4th quarter. With 1:28 to play, the strategy is a lot different in a 34-17 game than in a 20-17 game.

No. Not analogous.

[brewcity77]

JB, you are really missing the point on all these discussions.  We get what you are saying from a global viewpoint. But but, situationally in many many games, FTs are damned important.  Yah, those misses in the first half ar meaningless.  Those misses in the last minute are monumental.

And despite this, team free throw percentage still doesn't matter. A 46% free throw shooter can sink two while a 94% shooter can miss them both. And whether your team shoots 64% or 84%, it has no bearing on the outcome of the game or that individual action.

And those last minute misses are still less monumental than any single field goal miss that led up to it. Your argument indicates that it is more important to be a prisoner to the moment than to see the big picture.

[Nukem2]

And despite this, team free throw percentage still doesn't matter. A 46% free throw shooter can sink two while a 94% shooter can miss them both. And whether your team shoots 64% or 84%, it has no bearing on the outcome of the game or that individual action.

And those last minute misses are still less monumental than any single field goal miss that led up to it. Your argument indicates that it is more important to be a prisoner to the moment than to see the big picture.

you are still missing the point.  Whoever takes those situational FTs is unimportant.  What's important is whether they are made or not.  We all get Jay Bees global oversight view. But, a missed FT or two with seconds left is simply monumental.

[GGGG]

Nukem. We get your point. It's not really relevant to JB's point. All end of game situations are important when it's close.

[Nukem2]

Nukem. We get your point. It's not really relevant to JB's point. All end of game situations are important when it's close.

You are not getting our point.  We have all agreed with Jay Bee's statistical overview but he simply ignores the situational stuff.  FTs matter, they really do. 

[brewcity77]

You are not getting our point.  We have all agreed with Jay Bee's statistical overview but he simply ignores the situational stuff.  FTs matter, they really do.

You are choosing to ignore the definition he provided.

[jsglow]

You're on the right track. AVERAGE ppp is about 1.05 these days (these days = past couple of years). If you're at 1.10 you're flirting with a top 50 ppp offense.

The reality is teams rarely shoot less than 60% FT over a season (in 2016-17, exactly one team shot worse than 61%).

At 60%, you're scoring around 1.2 ppp when you go to the line (front ends, and-one's, and offense rebounds alter it a bit, but largely offset). 1.2 ppp is elite offense. So, if you're one of the worst FT% teams in college basketball, going to the line is still elite offense. So, as you mentioned... FTrate has some importance (although it's by far the lowest of the four factors)...

FT% and a team's ppp do not correlate well. If I tell you a team is a top 30 eFG% team, it's a good guess that that team has a very good offensive ppp. If I tell you a team is a top 30 FT%, it doesn't tell you jack (e.g., #FTsNoMatta).

A dumb thing many people cry about is their team's FT%. "Team X only shoots 65% from the line! That will crush their season! They are FREE! Oh my gosh, how bad!!"

But the truth is we've seen 69% to 70% average FT% each year for decades. It's actually amazing (slight uptick to 70.4% last season). Free throws aren't free. The origin of the name comes from a time when free throws weren't shot - points were simply awarded based on a foul. Those were truly 'free' points. The name has stuck, but... it's completely bizarre and academically stupid that many argue they are losing games because their team shot 65% at the line instead of an average 70%.... yet many people do it.

#FTsNoMatta

Good explanation.  Makes perfect sense.  Thanks.

All that said, I'm still really glad we can count on Rowsey/Howard/Hauser in the last couple of minutes especially.

[Nukem2]

You are choosing to ignore the definition he provided.

Its a silly distinction.  One could make similar arguments about all other facets of the game. 

[Jay Bee]

Its a silly distinction.  One could make similar arguments about all other facets of the game.

False. See my comments on eFG% on this thread.

There's a reason why FT% isn't one of the four factors in winning a b-ball game. That reason is that #FTsNoMatta

[GGGG]

You are not getting our point.  We have all agreed with Jay Bee's statistical overview but he simply ignores the situational stuff.  FTs matter, they really do. 

I'm not ignoring anything.  I have specifically stated that it is better to do good things than bad things.  So in this case it is better to make free throws than not make them.  So yes, at the end of a game, it is good to hit free throws.

However over the course of a game, a team's FT% will almost always NOT determine who wins and loses.  That is a fact.  JB is right that it's an overrated statistic.

[Nukem2]

I'm not ignoring anything.  I have specifically stated that it is better to do good things than bad things.  So in this case it is better to make free throws than not make them.  So yes, at the end of a game, it is good to hit free throws.

However over the course of a game, a team's FT% will almost always NOT determine who wins and loses.  That is a fact.  JB is right that it's an overrated statistic.

So, instead of saying FTs no matta, he should be saying FT % no matta.  In the course of a game, FTs situationally can and vbery often do matter a lot just the same as many other aspects of a game.  Seen it happen many times over the years.

[brewcity77]

So, instead of saying FTs no matta, he should be saying FT % no matta.  In the course of a game, FTs situationally can and vbery often do matter a lot just the same as many other aspects of a game.  Seen it happen many times over the years.

Just like this thread, it's predicated on a hashtag. The hashtag doesn't work if you include a percent sign. Since it seems that FT% not mattering is widely accepted and has been repeatedly and thoroughly defined, why not just accept it and move on?

[GGGG]

So, instead of saying FTs no matta, he should be saying FT % no matta. 

It's just a statement he uses and has described multiple times, including in this thread.  Don't be so literal.

[AZWarrior]

Jimmy Mac is right, IMO.

I have to say #3throw makes for a much better hashtag than #thething #mubb

[MU82]

Two interesting thething related happenings last night.

1. Rowsey tried to thething somebody but the defender didn't bite. Rowsey made the left-handed 3-pointer anyway!

2. On D, Rowsey was himself thethinged. He was laughing after he was victimized by his own move. Probably won't be so humorous of it happens late in a 2-point game against Creighton, though.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Gotta agree with Mac, #threethrow is SO much better than #thething.

[jsglow]

Two interesting thething related happenings last night.

1. Rowsey tried to thething somebody but the defender didn't bite. Rowsey made the left-handed 3-pointer anyway!

2. On D, Rowsey was himself thethinged. He was laughing after he was victimized by his own move. Probably won't be so humorous of it happens late in a 2-point game against Creighton, though.

Noticed both.  Great stuff.

[BrewCity83]

Two interesting thething related happenings last night.

1. Rowsey tried to thething somebody but the defender didn't bite. Rowsey made the left-handed 3-pointer anyway!

2. On D, Rowsey was himself thethinged. He was laughing after he was victimized by his own move. Probably won't be so humorous of it happens late in a 2-point game against Creighton, though.

Also, during the broadcast the TV team said that Rowsey calls his move #thething.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Two interesting thething related happenings last night.

1. Rowsey tried to thething somebody but the defender didn't bite. Rowsey made the left-handed 3-pointer anyway!

2. On D, Rowsey was himself thethinged. He was laughing after he was victimized by his own move. Probably won't be so humorous of it happens late in a 2-point game against Creighton, though.

1.  #theotherthing

2.  #thereversething

[Jay Bee]

2. On D, Rowsey was himself thethinged. He was laughing after he was victimized by his own move. Probably won't be so humorous of it happens late in a 2-point game against Creighton, though.

Eh, not a big deal if the field goal is missed. #FTsNoMatta