Kobe Bryant

[JWags85]

You won't get blasted by me. It's an interesting conversation.

Kobe was no "hero." We have several Scoopers who have put their lives on the line, including some doing so to this very day, who are bigger "heroes" than Kobe or most other athletes ever were.

Even if he hadn't done the heinous thing that appears to be obvious to most thinking people, he had many other pretty bad character flaws. Of course, many other humans have similar flaws; we are a most imperfect species.

He shouldn't have been a role model (as Barkley alluded to in his famous/infamous commercial). But naturally, many folks do regard famous people as role models merely because they are famous and/or rich. The royal family is among the most ridiculous examples.

Some journalists who have covered Kobe for years have said that he worked hard to clean up his image by trying to be a better person. He had done a lot of charitable work in recent years, had immersed himself in making things better for female athletes, had been a loving father. If all of that is true, I am glad he was able to better the lives of others before he passed away.

A lot of people died Sunday that were nowhere near that helicopter. Regular folks -- many bad I'm sure, but probably mostly good people. They were just as important and meaningful and valuable as Kobe Bryant.

I am not saying he shouldn't be mourned or remembered or eulogized, not saying he won't be missed. Just trying to keep things in perspective. Just because he was rich and famous -- or even relatively young -- it doesn't make his death more horrible than thousands of other deaths that unfortunately happened the same day or week or month.

And all of those deaths -- as well as the other kinds of adversity life throws at all of us -- are the kinds of things that help me keep perspective and not lose my shyte over the results of a Marquette basketball game.

That's just me. I know others handle things differently, and I'm not saying my way is better than anybody else's.

Here's to life, everybody!

Thought provoking to be sure, but here's my issue with "plenty of people died on Sunday that weren't famous" or "people in the military are dying every day" in response to an outpouring of grief for someone "famous".  While that is certainly true, dwelling on that sort of outlook is a depressing way to go through life.  Someone like Kobe for example can have a grief set even if he was an a**hole, cause he made an impact on people's lives through the enjoyment they had in his sports achievements.  Thats a different set of feelings and emotions than just another sad news story.  There is a connection there, whether you feel people invest emotionally in sport too much or not.  I don't think its more "horrible", I think people just feel it more, in a way that is only surpassed by a friend or loved one passing.  Hell, there were a few other families tragically impacted by that same crash and thats absolutely horrible and my thoughts go out to them, but I cant expect a basketball or Lakers fan to feel the same gut punch for that, and thats no disrespect to the deceased or their family's pain.

As for Kobe not being a role model.  Again, as a player, I agree.  But I think the latter career/post-retirement Kobe was a template for all athletes and many adults.  Thoughtful, introspective, very big on expressing the need to appreciate and take advantage of the life and opportunities you have before you, family focused and a committed parent.  I think thats the reason the outpouring, especially from "industry" people, has been the way it has been.  If he passed right after his career ended, there would have been the shock and associated feelings, but I don't think the human interest element was there, even without the tragedy of his daughter being involved.

It hit me hard yesterday because you get lulled into this sense of "immortality" for people that were core to your life.  Parents, best friends, iconic athletes you grew up with.  Of course you get to an age where you accept and realize death comes for everyone, but it never always hits home.  So I understand some of it.  Hell, yesterday I sent messages to my sisters, a couple of my close friends, and my parents just saying how much they meant to me because sometimes it takes an event like this to appreciate the fragility of life and make you appreciate how quick it can vanish.  And that to me is more important the people policing the grief of others or feeling the need to scrutinize a life so that sadness can be properly "measured"

[warriorchick]

Don't forget the Evansville basketball team.

The entire 1961 U.S. Figure Skating team.

[The Sultan]

Don't forget the Evansville basketball team.

In my lifetime, I think the only other deaths that compare in terms of magnitude are Hank Gathers, Len Bias and Dale Earnhardt. Those three deaths, like Kobe's transcended sports (Bias for the way he died).

I think the only one that comes close for me is Earnhardt.  Both were considered to be near the greatest ever in their sport.  But even then, Kobe was very much more of a worldwide icon than Dale was. 

I don't know if I can think of another example that comes close.

[MU82]

Thought provoking to be sure, but here's my issue with "plenty of people died on Sunday that weren't famous" or "people in the military are dying every day" in response to an outpouring of grief for someone "famous".  While that is certainly true, dwelling on that sort of outlook is a depressing way to go through life.  Someone like Kobe for example can have a grief set even if he was an a**hole, cause he made an impact on people's lives through the enjoyment they had in his sports achievements.  Thats a different set of feelings and emotions than just another sad news story.  There is a connection there, whether you feel people invest emotionally in sport too much or not.  I don't think its more "horrible", I think people just feel it more, in a way that is only surpassed by a friend or loved one passing.  Hell, there were a few other families tragically impacted by that same crash and thats absolutely horrible and my thoughts go out to them, but I cant expect a basketball or Lakers fan to feel the same gut punch for that, and thats no disrespect to the deceased or their family's pain.

As for Kobe not being a role model.  Again, as a player, I agree.  But I think the latter career/post-retirement Kobe was a template for all athletes and many adults.  Thoughtful, introspective, very big on expressing the need to appreciate and take advantage of the life and opportunities you have before you, family focused and a committed parent.  I think thats the reason the outpouring, especially from "industry" people, has been the way it has been.  If he passed right after his career ended, there would have been the shock and associated feelings, but I don't think the human interest element was there, even without the tragedy of his daughter being involved.

It hit me hard yesterday because you get lulled into this sense of "immortality" for people that were core to your life.  Parents, best friends, iconic athletes you grew up with.  Of course you get to an age where you accept and realize death comes for everyone, but it never always hits home.  So I understand some of it.  Hell, yesterday I sent messages to my sisters, a couple of my close friends, and my parents just saying how much they meant to me because sometimes it takes an event like this to appreciate the fragility of life and make you appreciate how quick it can vanish.  And that to me is more important the people policing the grief of others or feeling the need to scrutinize a life so that sadness can be properly "measured"

Outstanding post. Thank you for sharing all of that. The last paragraph especially resonated with me.

Here's To Life!

[StillAWarrior]

Roberto Clemente
Payne Stewart
Davey Allison
Thurman Munson
Roy Halladay
Corey Lidle
Marshall football team

Steve Olin & Tim Crews

[StillAWarrior]

File this under eerie coincidences.  Last week's (1/22/20) Ball & Chain podcast (MU's Steve Rushin and Rebecca Lobo) started with a several-minute long discussion of their experiences with helicopters and even included a "what if" discussion if "some tragedy [had befallen] the helicopter."

[Jay Bee]

#FluidityOfConsent

[rocket surgeon]

Stevie ray vaugn, although not near the basketball talent as Kobe, but famous nonetheless, met a similar fat leaving alpine valley music theater under similar circumstances.  They ski hills were just raised to I don't know what height(feet from sea level) heli pilot took off under foggy conditions and slammed into the side of one of the ski hills.  My office is literally 1-2 miles from alpine valley and I was in a golf league there during that time.   Last time I checked, they didn't rename the hill a road nor the amphitheater after him

[The Sultan]

The ski hills had been raised?  That's the first I heard of that.

Anyway, I remember the morning after.  I was driving to work and reports were coming out on the radio that Eric Clapton had died in that crash.  It wasn't until a couple hours later that they verified it was SRV.  So jumping the gun on these things doesn't just happen during the social media age.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I have friends that to this day accuse Clapton of killing SRV and feel the world would be a better place if EC had died instead. SRV was sober but EC would take years to get sober.

[The Sultan]

I have friends that to this day accuse Clapton of killing SRV and feel the world would be a better place if EC had died instead. SRV was sober but EC would take years to get sober.

That is really a strange conspiracy theory.  And I think Clapton was sober by 1989.

[buckchuckler]

Stevie ray vaugn, although not near the basketball talent as Kobe, but famous nonetheless, met a similar fat leaving alpine valley music theater under similar circumstances.  They ski hills were just raised to I don%u2019t know what height(feet from sea level) heli pilot took off under foggy conditions and slammed into the side of one of the ski hills.  My office is literally 1-2 miles from alpine valley and I was in a golf league there during that time.   Last time I checked, they didn%u2019t rename the hill a road nor the amphitheater after him

SRV was absolutely a talent on Kobe's level.

[buckchuckler]

I have friends that to this day accuse Clapton of killing SRV and feel the world would be a better place if EC had died instead. SRV was sober but EC would take years to get sober.

Huh?

[MU82]

One that shook me hard:

Darryl Kile died of a heart attack in his downtown Chicago hotel room the night before his Cardinals were to play the Cubs.

[Spotcheck Billy]

That is really a strange conspiracy theory.  And I think Clapton was sober by 1989.

you are correct

Huh?

Should I have used teal?

[Mr. Nielsen]

Snoop on Kobe
https://twitter.com/undisputed/status/1222552635263397894

[Billy Hoyle]

That is really a strange conspiracy theory.  And I think Clapton was sober by 1989.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbtOx5AKN7I