Kobe Bryant

[DegenerateDish]

Dead in helicopter crash.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Wow

https://nypost.com/2020/01/26/kobe-bryant-reportedly-killed-in-california-helicopter-crash/

[BM1090]

Really hope it's proven to be untrue but it seems real.

[cheebs09]

Just awful.

[hairy worthen]

Really hope it's proven to be untrue but it seems real.

Several sources now reporting it

[MU82]

Terrible tragedy for the Bryant family and everybody connected to him, obviously.

I feel even worse for the three others who were killed and who won't be eulogized as "heroes" or national treasures. They were every bit as important.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Shocking to hear the news. As Koby was just in news on Saturday.

[Cheeks]

RIP

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Rick Fox and Kobe's 4 daughters were on the helicopter as well.

[Goose]

Praying his daughters were NOT on the chopper.

[Johnny B]

Praying his daughters were on the chopper.

Might wanna edit this one..

[wadesworld]

Praying his daughters were on the chopper.

Why?

[Johnny B]

Why?

R

[Goose]

Sorry about that last post, really hoping his family was not with him. News is just horrible.

[cheebs09]

Rick Fox and Kobe's 4 daughters were on the helicopter as well.

Everything seems to mention 5 people, so I don’t believe this is accurate. I sure hope it isn’t.

[wadesworld]

Sorry about that last post, really hoping his family was not with him. News is just horrible.

Got it. That makes sense.

[JWags85]

Sources are confirming his daughters weren't on board.  No word on Rick Fox yet.

I'm just numb.  Not a Lakers fan, and I never had a Kobe jersey, but im 34 and for me Kobe WAS the NBA when I was a teen.  The mini fro, the dunk contest, the demeanor.  I LOVED watching him.  And for all his controversy and demeanor as a player, all anyone has been able to do since he retired was talk about how involved he was as a father and how committed he was to teaching his kids the game.

This absolutely sucks.  I'm at a loss

[Goose]

Wags

Thanks for the update on daughters. Just saw similar on Sky News.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Rick Fox was not on the helicopter now either. 

[DegenerateDish]

Kobe’s oldest daughter among those onboard, no survivors.

[JWags85]

Kobe’s oldest daughter among those onboard, no survivors.

Middle daughter who was a standout young player, she's the one in the video with them sitting courtside that he's explaining strategy too.  Ugh, this is beyond awful.

[Cheeks]

GiGi was on board, his 13 year old.  They were flying to Thousand Oaks.  Kobe has been flying in helicopters for such a long time, since his days living in Newport Beach.  Tragic. 

[cheebs09]

GiGi was on board, his 13 year old.  They were flying to Thousand Oaks.  Kobe has been flying in helicopters for such a long time, since his days living in Newport Beach.  Tragic.

Sounds like it was to a game of hers. Another parent and player on board. So very sad.

[Cheeks]

Rick Fox and Kobe's 4 daughters were on the helicopter as well.

Rick Fox was not on the helicopter. 

[Billy Hoyle]

Wasn’t a fan of his teams but respected his drive and his game. Stunning doesn’t begin to describe it.

[WarriorFan]

Not Fair.  Too soon.

I thought the post playing version of Kobe might be even better than the playing version.

[JWags85]

Not Fair.  Too soon.

I thought the post playing version of Kobe might be even better than the playing version.

I agree here. He was still prolific in business with BodyArmor and film work and other endeavors, but he seemed to soften as a person and become more human. I mentioned to a friend earlier today that there are a number of people, even prior to today, that weren’t great fans of him during his career who changed their tone after interacting with post-NBA Kobe. That Kobe/Shaq feud was legendary and Shaq’s son posted a message this morning from Kobe reaching out unprompted just prior to the crash to check on him, they were family

[rocket surgeon]

So sad all Around

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28570865/orange-coast-college-baseball-coach-john-altobelli-helicopter-crash-victims

RIP all those involved

[Cheeks]

So sad all Around

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28570865/orange-coast-college-baseball-coach-john-altobelli-helicopter-crash-victims

RIP all those involved

He was a stud coach in these parts.  2019 Junior College national coach of the year as well. 

[rocket surgeon]

Just watched news conference. Had views of crash site from above.  Probably from a helicopter. That’s gotta make ya gulp twice 😳

[withoutbias]

I know I will get blasted for this, and in some ways rightfully so, but it's kind of weird trying to process this one.  I feel awful for his wife and his kids, who are now without a father and a sister/husband and daughter at very young ages, and that's horrible and heartbreaking in every way.  I feel awful for all the people he was close to and for the basketball community, as he was obviously a very large figure in the basketball community and was an all time great, no doubt about it.

But who I also feel sorry for is the woman he raped, who now has to hear about how this world lost a great human being for the next number of weeks, plus for all the "Who we lost this year" at the end of 2020.  I squirm a little bit every time I see some basketball fan on social media posting about the great person this world lost.  While he seemed to have matured and certainly seems to be a great family man since he retired from basketball, it's tough for me to feel comfortable considering him this great human being when I never met him and when his lawyer released a statement from him that stated Kobe performed the definition of a rape ("I thought it was consensual at the time, but after reviewing all the facts in this case I now understand how she did not consider it consensual").

That's not to say he "deserved" this or that the world is a "better place" without him.  Not at all.  I just hate seeing these people who have never met the guy calling him a great person.  No doubt he was a great basketball player and it's very weird that he is no longer on this earth, but it's just hard for me to give the guy a pass because he had enough money to settle his case outside of court and act like it never happened.  Sure, he was "young" and he seemed to have "learned" from his "mistakes."  But thankfully most people's "mistakes" when they are "young" are not raping a woman (or man).

I don't know, just a weird one for me.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Marquette's own Charles Pierce wrote an article that addresses your mixed feelings.  I thought it was very good.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a30668419/kobe-bryant-dead-at-41-obituary/?src=socialflowTW&utm_campaign=socialflowTWESQ&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social-media

"There was no way to work that night in the Colorado hotel into the biography that unspooled thereafter and came to such a sudden end on Sunday. In Massachusetts, for decades, political writers wrestled with where to place Chappaquiddick into the saga of Ted Kennedy, and too many of them gave up and erased the event and Mary Jo Kopechne. But it is 2020 now, and Jeffrey Epstein is dead and Harvey Weinstein is in a New York courtroom, and erasing a female victim is no longer a viable moral and ethical strategy. Kobe Bryant died on Sunday with one of the young women in his life, and how you will come to measure his life has to be judged by how deeply you believe that he corrected his grievous fault through the life he lived afterwards, and how deeply you believe that he corrected that fault, immediately and beautifully, and in midair."

[Cheeks]

“Too many of them gave up”...what a load from Chuck....they never tried to begin with...on purpose.

[Cheeks]

Roberto Clemente
Payne Stewart
Davey Allison
Thurman Munson
Roy Halladay
Corey Lidle
Marshall football team

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

“Too many of them gave up”...what a load from Chuck....they never tried to begin with...on purpose.

This is funny.

I almost deleted the part about Kennedy because Pierce always "goes there."  But I left it in because I wanted to see who would make a needless politial statement.  And of course it was you.

[JWags85]

I know I will get blasted for this, and in some ways rightfully so, but it's kind of weird trying to process this one.  I feel awful for his wife and his kids, who are now without a father and a sister/husband and daughter at very young ages, and that's horrible and heartbreaking in every way.  I feel awful for all the people he was close to and for the basketball community, as he was obviously a very large figure in the basketball community and was an all time great, no doubt about it.

But who I also feel sorry for is the woman he raped, who now has to hear about how this world lost a great human being for the next number of weeks, plus for all the "Who we lost this year" at the end of 2020.  I squirm a little bit every time I see some basketball fan on social media posting about the great person this world lost.  While he seemed to have matured and certainly seems to be a great family man since he retired from basketball, it's tough for me to feel comfortable considering him this great human being when I never met him and when his lawyer released a statement from him that stated Kobe performed the definition of a rape ("I thought it was consensual at the time, but after reviewing all the facts in this case I now understand how she did not consider it consensual").

That's not to say he "deserved" this or that the world is a "better place" without him.  Not at all.  I just hate seeing these people who have never met the guy calling him a great person.  No doubt he was a great basketball player and it's very weird that he is no longer on this earth, but it's just hard for me to give the guy a pass because he had enough money to settle his case outside of court and act like it never happened.  Sure, he was "young" and he seemed to have "learned" from his "mistakes."  But thankfully most people's "mistakes" when they are "young" are not raping a woman (or man).

I don't know, just a weird one for me.

I don't think its about giving him a "pass".  It was and still is a complicated case and situation.  There was a fluidity of consent to a point and then supposed removal of consent.  It wasn't open and shut either way.  That statement everyone has taken as an "admission of rape" when its clearly not, and was an acknowledgement of the issues surrounding the case as it lead to a civil resolution.  But that being said, I truly don't know what people expected him to do later in life about it.

But I think there is a weird obsession with this all or nothing notion of a person's character.  You can have ugly spots of criminality, lapses in judgement, or other distasteful behavior in your past, but move on from them, learn from them, and still be a good/great/better person.  Kobe was the first person to tell you he was imperfect.  You can look at the last 5-7 years and say wow, he really matured as a person, a father, a peer.  People that interacted with him post retirement couldn't say enough about him, when the best most could say in his prime was what an insane competitor and worker he was.

Feeling the need to "yea, buttt" everyone's remembrance of his high points is just as bad as ignoring his lows all together.

[Jockey]

I don't think its about giving him a "pass".  It was and still is a complicated case and situation.  There was a fluidity of consent to a point and then supposed removal of consent.  It wasn't open and shut either way.  That statement everyone has taken as an "admission of rape" when its clearly not, and was an acknowledgement of the issues surrounding the case as it lead to a civil resolution.  But that being said, I truly don't know what people expected him to do later in life about it.

But I think there is a weird obsession with this all or nothing notion of a person's character.  You can have ugly spots of criminality, lapses in judgement, or other distasteful behavior in your past, but move on from them, learn from them, and still be a good/great/better person.  Kobe was the first person to tell you he was imperfect.  You can look at the last 5-7 years and say wow, he really matured as a person, a father, a peer.  People that interacted with him post retirement couldn't say enough about him, when the best most could say in his prime was what an insane competitor and worker he was.

Feeling the need to "yea, buttt" everyone's remembrance of his high points is just as bad as ignoring his lows all together.

Really well said, Wags.

[withoutbias]

"First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colo. I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter. I issue this statement today fully aware that while one part of this case ends today, another remains. I understand that the civil case against me will go forward. That part of this case will be decided by and between the parties directly involved in the incident and will no longer be a financial or emotional drain on the citizens of the state of Colorado."

I won't pretend to work in the legal field, but that sounds like the definition of rape to me.

[StillAWarrior]

I won't pretend to work in the legal field, but that sounds like the definition of rape to me.

Well, that only sounds like the definition of rape if it is treated as a strict liability crime.  For many years in many jurisdictions, knowledge of the lack of consent was an element of the crime of rape.  I have no idea what elements of rape were in Colorado at the time.  But, "I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual" is absolutely not a confession of rape if knowledge of lack of consent was an element.

This is 100% not a defense of Kobe.  I am merely pointing out that the statement absolutely does not sound like the definition of rape as that crime has historically been defined.  I'm aware that the law has been changing in many jurisdiction to require affirmative consent and to apply a "reckless" standard based upon the failure to obtain such consent, but I'd be a little surprised if that was the case in Colorado in 2003.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Oof.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/27/sports/kobe-bryant-death.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

"The helicopter carrying Kobe Bryant and eight others who died in the crash had received special clearance to fly in the foggy weather."

[Billy Hoyle]

Roberto Clemente
Payne Stewart
Davey Allison
Thurman Munson
Roy Halladay
Corey Lidle
Marshall football team

Don't forget the Evansville basketball team.

In my lifetime, I think the only other deaths that compare in terms of magnitude are Hank Gathers, Len Bias and Dale Earnhardt. Those three deaths, like Kobe's transcended sports (Bias for the way he died).

[Billy Hoyle]

Well, that only sounds like the definition of rape if it is treated as a strict liability crime.  For many years in many jurisdictions, knowledge of the lack of consent was an element of the crime of rape.  I have no idea what elements of rape were in Colorado at the time.  But, "I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual" is absolutely not a confession of rape if knowledge of lack of consent was an element.

This is 100% not a defense of Kobe.  I am merely pointing out that the statement absolutely does not sound like the definition of rape as that crime has historically been defined.  I'm aware that the law has been changing in many jurisdiction to require affirmative consent and to apply a "reckless" standard based upon the failure to obtain such consent, but I'd be a little surprised if that was the case in Colorado in 2003.

from what I was told (from an NBA GM, admittedly third hand), was that it was a consensual encounter but that sometime during the encounter Kobe decided to go backdoor which the accuser did not consent to. Consent can be withdrawn at any time during a sexual encounter.

[Jockey]

Don't forget the Evansville basketball team.

In my lifetime, I think the only two other deaths that compare in terms of magnitude are Hank Gathers, Len Bias and Dale Earnhardt. Those three deaths, like Kobe's transcended sports (Bias for the way he died).

Those were all sad, but very different to me. Kobe was way, way, way more transcendent than any of these others. An era of the NBA was defined by Kobe. For most guys in the NBA now, Kobe was the 1st guy they idolized as they were born late in the MJ era and never got to see him at his greatest. We have had several "eras' in the NBa since the 70's. Kareem, Magic/Bird, Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, and I think, we are just enter the Giannis era. Of the 3 that you mentioned, only Dale had achieved "greatness", but not to the effect that he defined the sport.


One interesting tidbit - every NBA MVP is still alive except for Wilt, Moses and now, Kobe

[4everwarriors]

I know I will get blasted for this, and in some ways rightfully so, but it's kind of weird trying to process this one.  I feel awful for his wife and his kids, who are now without a father and a sister/husband and daughter at very young ages, and that's horrible and heartbreaking in every way.  I feel awful for all the people he was close to and for the basketball community, as he was obviously a very large figure in the basketball community and was an all time great, no doubt about it.

But who I also feel sorry for is the woman he raped, who now has to hear about how this world lost a great human being for the next number of weeks, plus for all the "Who we lost this year" at the end of 2020.  I squirm a little bit every time I see some basketball fan on social media posting about the great person this world lost.  While he seemed to have matured and certainly seems to be a great family man since he retired from basketball, it's tough for me to feel comfortable considering him this great human being when I never met him and when his lawyer released a statement from him that stated Kobe performed the definition of a rape ("I thought it was consensual at the time, but after reviewing all the facts in this case I now understand how she did not consider it consensual").

That's not to say he "deserved" this or that the world is a "better place" without him.  Not at all.  I just hate seeing these people who have never met the guy calling him a great person.  No doubt he was a great basketball player and it's very weird that he is no longer on this earth, but it's just hard for me to give the guy a pass because he had enough money to settle his case outside of court and act like it never happened.  Sure, he was "young" and he seemed to have "learned" from his "mistakes."  But thankfully most people's "mistakes" when they are "young" are not raping a woman (or man).

I don't know, just a weird one for me.

Solid and wuz wonderin' wen sumwon wood call a spade a spade. Got know issue sayin' dis wuz a tragedy and he wuz an all tyme grate basketball playa. Dat's wear it ends, doe, hey?

[4everwarriors]

Roberto Clemente
Payne Stewart
Davey Allison
Thurman Munson
Roy Halladay
Corey Lidle
Marshall football team

Evansville Purple Aces

[MU82]

Solid and wuz wonderin' wen sumwon wood call a spade a spade. Got know issue sayin' dis wuz a tragedy and he wuz an all tyme grate basketball playa. Dat's wear it ends, doe, hey?

Congratulations, Doc, on being able to spell "spade" correctly ... twice.

[Pakuni]

Solid and wuz wonderin' wen sumwon wood call a spade a spade. Got know issue sayin' dis wuz a tragedy and he wuz an all tyme grate basketball playa. Dat's wear it ends, doe, hey?

Interesting choice of words.

[Billy Hoyle]

Those were all sad, but very different to me. Kobe was way, way, way more transcendent than any of these others. An era of the NBA was defined by Kobe. For most guys in the NBA now, Kobe was the 1st guy they idolized as they were born late in the MJ era and never got to see him at his greatest. We have had several "eras' in the NBa since the 70's. Kareem, Magic/Bird, Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, and I think, we are just enter the Giannis era. Of the 3 that you mentioned, only Dale had achieved "greatness", but not to the effect that he defined the sport.


One interesting tidbit - every NBA MVP is still alive except for Wilt, Moses and now, Kobe

I'm not saying the were on the same level as Kobe's is definitely bigger than all of them (and happened in the social media age), and maybe I'm showing my age with these three, but:

Gathers - died on the court during a game.  The subsequent run by LMU in the 1990 NCAA tournament magnified his death.
Bias - dying from a cocaine overdose during the height of the "war on drugs" which blew up the national conversation about drug use.  Not that I was ever going to use cocaine, but I am positive many people of my generation were scared out of ever using it due to Bias' death

Earnhardt did transcend the sport (he was a cultural icon, granted not a culture I was a part of and I'm guessing the same for you) and he died on national TV during the sport's biggest event. I was no NASCAR fan but I remember being at the Annex with my then girlfriend when the crash happened and it too was front page news on every major newspaper.

[MU82]

I know I will get blasted for this, and in some ways rightfully so, but it's kind of weird trying to process this one.  I feel awful for his wife and his kids, who are now without a father and a sister/husband and daughter at very young ages, and that's horrible and heartbreaking in every way.  I feel awful for all the people he was close to and for the basketball community, as he was obviously a very large figure in the basketball community and was an all time great, no doubt about it.

But who I also feel sorry for is the woman he raped, who now has to hear about how this world lost a great human being for the next number of weeks, plus for all the "Who we lost this year" at the end of 2020.  I squirm a little bit every time I see some basketball fan on social media posting about the great person this world lost.  While he seemed to have matured and certainly seems to be a great family man since he retired from basketball, it's tough for me to feel comfortable considering him this great human being when I never met him and when his lawyer released a statement from him that stated Kobe performed the definition of a rape ("I thought it was consensual at the time, but after reviewing all the facts in this case I now understand how she did not consider it consensual").

That's not to say he "deserved" this or that the world is a "better place" without him.  Not at all.  I just hate seeing these people who have never met the guy calling him a great person.  No doubt he was a great basketball player and it's very weird that he is no longer on this earth, but it's just hard for me to give the guy a pass because he had enough money to settle his case outside of court and act like it never happened.  Sure, he was "young" and he seemed to have "learned" from his "mistakes."  But thankfully most people's "mistakes" when they are "young" are not raping a woman (or man).

I don't know, just a weird one for me.

You won't get blasted by me. It's an interesting conversation.

Kobe was no "hero." We have several Scoopers who have put their lives on the line, including some doing so to this very day, who are bigger "heroes" than Kobe or most other athletes ever were.

Even if he hadn't done the heinous thing that appears to be obvious to most thinking people, he had many other pretty bad character flaws. Of course, many other humans have similar flaws; we are a most imperfect species.

He shouldn't have been a role model (as Barkley alluded to in his famous/infamous commercial). But naturally, many folks do regard famous people as role models merely because they are famous and/or rich. The royal family is among the most ridiculous examples.

Some journalists who have covered Kobe for years have said that he worked hard to clean up his image by trying to be a better person. He had done a lot of charitable work in recent years, had immersed himself in making things better for female athletes, had been a loving father. If all of that is true, I am glad he was able to better the lives of others before he passed away.

A lot of people died Sunday that were nowhere near that helicopter. Regular folks -- many bad I'm sure, but probably mostly good people. They were just as important and meaningful and valuable as Kobe Bryant.

I am not saying he shouldn't be mourned or remembered or eulogized, not saying he won't be missed. Just trying to keep things in perspective. Just because he was rich and famous -- or even relatively young -- it doesn't make his death more horrible than thousands of other deaths that unfortunately happened the same day or week or month.

And all of those deaths -- as well as the other kinds of adversity life throws at all of us -- are the kinds of things that help me keep perspective and not lose my shyte over the results of a Marquette basketball game.

That's just me. I know others handle things differently, and I'm not saying my way is better than anybody else's.

Here's to life, everybody!

[buckchuckler]

Roberto Clemente
Payne Stewart
Davey Allison
Thurman Munson
Roy Halladay
Corey Lidle
Marshall football team

Jose Fernandez. He had the talent to be an all time great.  And his death probably dramatically changed the Marlins franchise.

[JWags85]

You won't get blasted by me. It's an interesting conversation.

Kobe was no "hero." We have several Scoopers who have put their lives on the line, including some doing so to this very day, who are bigger "heroes" than Kobe or most other athletes ever were.

Even if he hadn't done the heinous thing that appears to be obvious to most thinking people, he had many other pretty bad character flaws. Of course, many other humans have similar flaws; we are a most imperfect species.

He shouldn't have been a role model (as Barkley alluded to in his famous/infamous commercial). But naturally, many folks do regard famous people as role models merely because they are famous and/or rich. The royal family is among the most ridiculous examples.

Some journalists who have covered Kobe for years have said that he worked hard to clean up his image by trying to be a better person. He had done a lot of charitable work in recent years, had immersed himself in making things better for female athletes, had been a loving father. If all of that is true, I am glad he was able to better the lives of others before he passed away.

A lot of people died Sunday that were nowhere near that helicopter. Regular folks -- many bad I'm sure, but probably mostly good people. They were just as important and meaningful and valuable as Kobe Bryant.

I am not saying he shouldn't be mourned or remembered or eulogized, not saying he won't be missed. Just trying to keep things in perspective. Just because he was rich and famous -- or even relatively young -- it doesn't make his death more horrible than thousands of other deaths that unfortunately happened the same day or week or month.

And all of those deaths -- as well as the other kinds of adversity life throws at all of us -- are the kinds of things that help me keep perspective and not lose my shyte over the results of a Marquette basketball game.

That's just me. I know others handle things differently, and I'm not saying my way is better than anybody else's.

Here's to life, everybody!

Thought provoking to be sure, but here's my issue with "plenty of people died on Sunday that weren't famous" or "people in the military are dying every day" in response to an outpouring of grief for someone "famous".  While that is certainly true, dwelling on that sort of outlook is a depressing way to go through life.  Someone like Kobe for example can have a grief set even if he was an a**hole, cause he made an impact on people's lives through the enjoyment they had in his sports achievements.  Thats a different set of feelings and emotions than just another sad news story.  There is a connection there, whether you feel people invest emotionally in sport too much or not.  I don't think its more "horrible", I think people just feel it more, in a way that is only surpassed by a friend or loved one passing.  Hell, there were a few other families tragically impacted by that same crash and thats absolutely horrible and my thoughts go out to them, but I cant expect a basketball or Lakers fan to feel the same gut punch for that, and thats no disrespect to the deceased or their family's pain.

As for Kobe not being a role model.  Again, as a player, I agree.  But I think the latter career/post-retirement Kobe was a template for all athletes and many adults.  Thoughtful, introspective, very big on expressing the need to appreciate and take advantage of the life and opportunities you have before you, family focused and a committed parent.  I think thats the reason the outpouring, especially from "industry" people, has been the way it has been.  If he passed right after his career ended, there would have been the shock and associated feelings, but I don't think the human interest element was there, even without the tragedy of his daughter being involved.

It hit me hard yesterday because you get lulled into this sense of "immortality" for people that were core to your life.  Parents, best friends, iconic athletes you grew up with.  Of course you get to an age where you accept and realize death comes for everyone, but it never always hits home.  So I understand some of it.  Hell, yesterday I sent messages to my sisters, a couple of my close friends, and my parents just saying how much they meant to me because sometimes it takes an event like this to appreciate the fragility of life and make you appreciate how quick it can vanish.  And that to me is more important the people policing the grief of others or feeling the need to scrutinize a life so that sadness can be properly "measured"

[warriorchick]

Don't forget the Evansville basketball team.

The entire 1961 U.S. Figure Skating team.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Don't forget the Evansville basketball team.

In my lifetime, I think the only other deaths that compare in terms of magnitude are Hank Gathers, Len Bias and Dale Earnhardt. Those three deaths, like Kobe's transcended sports (Bias for the way he died).

I think the only one that comes close for me is Earnhardt.  Both were considered to be near the greatest ever in their sport.  But even then, Kobe was very much more of a worldwide icon than Dale was. 

I don't know if I can think of another example that comes close.

[MU82]

Thought provoking to be sure, but here's my issue with "plenty of people died on Sunday that weren't famous" or "people in the military are dying every day" in response to an outpouring of grief for someone "famous".  While that is certainly true, dwelling on that sort of outlook is a depressing way to go through life.  Someone like Kobe for example can have a grief set even if he was an a**hole, cause he made an impact on people's lives through the enjoyment they had in his sports achievements.  Thats a different set of feelings and emotions than just another sad news story.  There is a connection there, whether you feel people invest emotionally in sport too much or not.  I don't think its more "horrible", I think people just feel it more, in a way that is only surpassed by a friend or loved one passing.  Hell, there were a few other families tragically impacted by that same crash and thats absolutely horrible and my thoughts go out to them, but I cant expect a basketball or Lakers fan to feel the same gut punch for that, and thats no disrespect to the deceased or their family's pain.

As for Kobe not being a role model.  Again, as a player, I agree.  But I think the latter career/post-retirement Kobe was a template for all athletes and many adults.  Thoughtful, introspective, very big on expressing the need to appreciate and take advantage of the life and opportunities you have before you, family focused and a committed parent.  I think thats the reason the outpouring, especially from "industry" people, has been the way it has been.  If he passed right after his career ended, there would have been the shock and associated feelings, but I don't think the human interest element was there, even without the tragedy of his daughter being involved.

It hit me hard yesterday because you get lulled into this sense of "immortality" for people that were core to your life.  Parents, best friends, iconic athletes you grew up with.  Of course you get to an age where you accept and realize death comes for everyone, but it never always hits home.  So I understand some of it.  Hell, yesterday I sent messages to my sisters, a couple of my close friends, and my parents just saying how much they meant to me because sometimes it takes an event like this to appreciate the fragility of life and make you appreciate how quick it can vanish.  And that to me is more important the people policing the grief of others or feeling the need to scrutinize a life so that sadness can be properly "measured"

Outstanding post. Thank you for sharing all of that. The last paragraph especially resonated with me.

Here's To Life!

[StillAWarrior]

Roberto Clemente
Payne Stewart
Davey Allison
Thurman Munson
Roy Halladay
Corey Lidle
Marshall football team

Steve Olin & Tim Crews

[StillAWarrior]

File this under eerie coincidences.  Last week's (1/22/20) Ball & Chain podcast (MU's Steve Rushin and Rebecca Lobo) started with a several-minute long discussion of their experiences with helicopters and even included a "what if" discussion if "some tragedy [had befallen] the helicopter."

[Jay Bee]

#FluidityOfConsent

[rocket surgeon]

Stevie ray vaugn, although not near the basketball talent as Kobe, but famous nonetheless, met a similar fat leaving alpine valley music theater under similar circumstances.  They ski hills were just raised to I don’t know what height(feet from sea level) heli pilot took off under foggy conditions and slammed into the side of one of the ski hills.  My office is literally 1-2 miles from alpine valley and I was in a golf league there during that time.   Last time I checked, they didn’t rename the hill a road nor the amphitheater after him

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The ski hills had been raised?  That's the first I heard of that.

Anyway, I remember the morning after.  I was driving to work and reports were coming out on the radio that Eric Clapton had died in that crash.  It wasn't until a couple hours later that they verified it was SRV.  So jumping the gun on these things doesn't just happen during the social media age.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I have friends that to this day accuse Clapton of killing SRV and feel the world would be a better place if EC had died instead. SRV was sober but EC would take years to get sober.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I have friends that to this day accuse Clapton of killing SRV and feel the world would be a better place if EC had died instead. SRV was sober but EC would take years to get sober.

That is really a strange conspiracy theory.  And I think Clapton was sober by 1989.

[buckchuckler]

Stevie ray vaugn, although not near the basketball talent as Kobe, but famous nonetheless, met a similar fat leaving alpine valley music theater under similar circumstances.  They ski hills were just raised to I don%u2019t know what height(feet from sea level) heli pilot took off under foggy conditions and slammed into the side of one of the ski hills.  My office is literally 1-2 miles from alpine valley and I was in a golf league there during that time.   Last time I checked, they didn%u2019t rename the hill a road nor the amphitheater after him

SRV was absolutely a talent on Kobe's level.

[buckchuckler]

I have friends that to this day accuse Clapton of killing SRV and feel the world would be a better place if EC had died instead. SRV was sober but EC would take years to get sober.

Huh?

[MU82]

One that shook me hard:

Darryl Kile died of a heart attack in his downtown Chicago hotel room the night before his Cardinals were to play the Cubs.

[Spotcheck Billy]

That is really a strange conspiracy theory.  And I think Clapton was sober by 1989.

you are correct

Huh?

Should I have used teal?

[Mr. Nielsen]

Snoop on Kobe
https://twitter.com/undisputed/status/1222552635263397894

[Billy Hoyle]

That is really a strange conspiracy theory.  And I think Clapton was sober by 1989.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbtOx5AKN7I