Just making sure I've got my MU buckets Mount Rushmore's right

[brewcity77]

It is OK to really appreciate how good Markus was, and to have defended him numerous times from the far too many Markus-haters on this site, and to also not include him on one's Marquette Mount Olympus, right?

Because that's where I am.

Mount Olympus? No, that isn't okay. Because Mount Olympus is a pantheon with more than four individuals.

If you're talking about Marquette's Mount Rushmore? Sure, you can argue Wade is the only player worth putting up there with the 1970s guys. But if there are two guys post-1978 and Howard isn't one of them, that's not okay. Al, Butch, Bo, all fair to have ahead of Howard. There are a few others that can be justified from that era. There is no one other than Wade from after that era, though.

[MU82]

Mount Olympus? No, that isn't okay. Because Mount Olympus is a pantheon with more than four individuals.

If you're talking about Marquette's Mount Rushmore? Sure, you can argue Wade is the only player worth putting up there with the 1970s guys. But if there are two guys post-1978 and Howard isn't one of them, that's not okay. Al, Butch, Bo, all fair to have ahead of Howard. There are a few others that can be justified from that era. There is no one other than Wade from after that era, though.

Olympus ... d'oh!

Agree with your take on post-Al-era MU Rushmore candidates.

[cheebs09]

Their numbers are actually remarkably similar.  There is absolutely no denying that. Regardless of how they got it done, it is still true.

Howard career 42.7% from 3
Rowsey 42.6% from 3 with MU

Howard career 3.1 APG
Rowsey 3.6 APG with MU

Howard career 88.6% FT
Rowsey 91% FT with MU

Howard career PER 25.3
Rowsey at MU 23.5

Howard career usage 34.2%
Rowsey usage at MU 28%

Their results were highly similar from similar spots on the court. Howard's volume was just much higher on average.

Don't the bottom 2 numbers sort of show how much better Markus was? To put up the numbers he did, with that efficiency, on significantly higher usage is really impressive.

[dgies9156]

One of our fellow Scoopers implied an interesting question of who would be on a Marquette Mt. Rushmore in the post-Al McGuire era. I'd argue this was from 1980 onward because the guys that played for us in 1977-1979 were largely Al McGuire recruits. In that vein, I argue the Mt. Rushmore is as follows:

Buzz Williams -- OK, he was a jerk in how he left and he had some hair on his tenure, but we consistently performed under his tenure and were a regular in the NCAA.
Dwyane Wade -- This goes without saying. The reason we made the Final Four in 2003.
Jae Crowder -- Consistently good and very strong contributor.
Jim MacIllivane -- Best center we have had since Jerome. Yes, I screw up the spelling!

Some honorable mentions:

Glenn Rivers
Wes Matthews
DJO
Jeral McNeal
Tony Smith
Tom Crean

The most glaring omission would be Crean.

[The Sultan]

One of our fellow Scoopers implied an interesting question of who would be on a Marquette Mt. Rushmore in the post-Al McGuire era. I'd argue this was from 1980 onward because the guys that played for us in 1977-1979 were largely Al McGuire recruits. In that vein, I argue the Mt. Rushmore is as follows:

Buzz Williams -- OK, he was a jerk in how he left and he had some hair on his tenure, but we consistently performed under his tenure and were a regular in the NCAA.
Dwyane Wade -- This goes without saying. The reason we made the Final Four in 2003.
Jae Crowder -- Consistently good and very strong contributor.
Jim MacIllivane -- Best center we have had since Jerome. Yes, I screw up the spelling!

Some honorable mentions:

Glenn Rivers
Wes Matthews
DJO
Jeral McNeal
Tony Smith
Tom Crean

The most glaring omission would be Crean.

So Markus doesn't even make your post-1980 honorable mention list?  Assuming this was an oversight.

But seriously, Jim McIlvaine and Buzz Williams?

[brewcity77]

One of our fellow Scoopers implied an interesting question of who would be on a Marquette Mt. Rushmore in the post-Al McGuire era. I'd argue this was from 1980 onward because the guys that played for us in 1977-1979 were largely Al McGuire recruits. In that vein, I argue the Mt. Rushmore is as follows:

Buzz Williams -- OK, he was a jerk in how he left and he had some hair on his tenure, but we consistently performed under his tenure and were a regular in the NCAA.
Dwyane Wade -- This goes without saying. The reason we made the Final Four in 2003.
Jae Crowder -- Consistently good and very strong contributor.
Jim MacIllivane -- Best center we have had since Jerome. Yes, I screw up the spelling!

Some honorable mentions:

Glenn Rivers
Wes Matthews
DJO
Jeral McNeal
Tony Smith
Tom Crean

The most glaring omission would be Crean.

This shows you to be a non-serious person.

[🏀]

If we're just doing this for jokes now.

[MU82]

Let's do a 2017-20 Marquette Mount Rushmore:

S. Hauser, J. Hauser, Rowsey, S. Hauser again (for his PG play vs Georgetown).

#keeprushmorecancerfree

[1SE]

Yup.

Markus' defense improved by leaps and bounds by the time he got to his senior year. He went from a turnstile to a guy you could reliably put on the opponent's second guard. I think people also undersell just how hard Markus had to WORK to get those open looks. I don't remember any player ever putting more mileage per game on their legs for Marquette than Markus did. You want to talk about off-the-ball movement, Markus wasn't just elite, he was universally heavenly singularly Elite with a capital E.

Rowsey was a good offensive player and a great shooter, but he benefitted significantly from being surrounded by Sam and Markus. From his All-American junior year to his All-American senior year, Markus lost his two most efficient scoring teammates, had to subsequently significantly increase his usage, and still managed to improve his 3PFG% and Offensive Rating while being an even bigger focus of defenses. Do people not realize how hard that is to do?

It sucks that his coach couldn't make second half adjustments against South Carolina and that he had his team woefully unprepared for Ja Morant. It sucks that Markus lost his shot at a senior year NCAA Tournament. But in Marquette's history, we have exactly TWO players who were consensus two-time All-Americans. Butch Lee and Markus Howard. Since the 1970s, we have exactly TWO players who earned first-team All-American, Dwyane Wade and Markus Howard. If he's not on your Mount Rushmore, I get it. Tourney wins always have outsized importance when it comes to these things. But if you are making a Mount Rushmore of the last 40 years, there are only two players who MUST be on that list, and Markus Howard is one of them. That is not something that is open for debate. Since Butch Lee left, Howard is ahead of Crowder, ahead of Butler, ahead of McNeil and Matthews and McIlvaine and Novak and Diener and anyone else not named Dwyane Wade.

And comparing Howard, a TWO-TIME ALL-AMERICAN to Rowsey, a one-time Big East Honorable Mention (behind second-team Big East Howard that same year) is the height of ridiculousness.

Yep. I can't believe some people still don't seem to appreciate that we got to watch not only one of the best offensive college basketball talents in MU history but really all time. Lets not forget that beyond the ridiculous shooting he could consistently beat buys off the bounce and finish in the lane either with the floater or at the rim as a 5'10" dude.

I had many gripes against Wojo, but what I can't forgive him for is that he didn't get Markus at least one NCAA win- either by surrounding him with better talent, keeping his locker room together, or doing a better job coaching (or all 3!).

[wadesworld]

If we're just doing this for jokes now.

Lol awesome.

[cheebs09]

I'm not sure how someone has Jerel's career over Markus'. I really liked Jerel, but Markus was a better player.

[dgies9156]

This shows you to be a non-serious person.

I like Markus but all of these people helped move the program forward.

We did not move forward under Markus. I probably should have added him to the honorable mention, but to this old Warrior, winning is paramount.

[brewcity77]

I like Markus but all of these people helped move the program forward.

We did not move forward under Markus. I probably should have added him to the honorable mention, but to this old Warrior, winning is paramount.

But we moved forward with Tony Smith, who had a grand total of 2 NIT losses to his postseason resume? Give me a break. You had a bad take about Markus and are just doubling down on it.

The post-1978 Rushmore starts with Wade and Markus. Period. And you say Howard didn't win anything, but it was Howard's arrival that got us back to the tourney after 3 consecutive misses (including one from Buzz). Howard got us back into the national spotlight in 2019 and single-handedly had us ranked in the top-20 in 2020. No player at Marquette did more individually to move the program forward than Howard. No player did more with bigger obstacles in terms of supporting cast and coaching. Howard was so good that Steve Wojciechowski kept his job for 7 years. You can be disappointed in Wojo all you like, but Howard is the only one since 1978 that stands on that pedestal with Wade. There's Wade, then Howard, then a massive gap before debating Jae, Buzz, Mac, KO, Doc, JFB, or anyone else.

[BrewCity83]

Al McGuire
Butch Lee
Dwyane Wade
Markus Howard.

Build it now.

[JWags85]

I like Markus but all of these people helped move the program forward.

We did not move forward under Markus. I probably should have added him to the honorable mention, but to this old Warrior, winning is paramount.

Many argue Lebron vs MJ.  Dgies argues MJ vs Robert Horry as the greatest of the modern era.  Winning is paramount.

[4everwarriors]

One of our fellow Scoopers implied an interesting question of who would be on a Marquette Mt. Rushmore in the post-Al McGuire era. I'd argue this was from 1980 onward because the guys that played for us in 1977-1979 were largely Al McGuire recruits. In that vein, I argue the Mt. Rushmore is as follows:

Buzz Williams -- OK, he was a jerk in how he left and he had some hair on his tenure, but we consistently performed under his tenure and were a regular in the NCAA.
Dwyane Wade -- This goes without saying. The reason we made the Final Four in 2003.
Jae Crowder -- Consistently good and very strong contributor.
Jim MacIllivane -- Best center we have had since Jerome. Yes, I screw up the spelling!

Some honorable mentions:

Glenn Rivers
Wes Matthews
DJO
Jeral McNeal
Tony Smith
Tom Crean

The most glaring omission would be Crean.

Crean sucks

[GooooMarquette]

I'd listen to any battles for No. 4, but not sure how anybody could carve out a Marquette Mount Rushmore without Al, Butch and D-Wade.

Wags summed up the candidacies of Lee and Wade perfectly, so no need to go further.

For the fourth head ... Thompson, Ellis or Meminger would seem the most likely choices.

Agree completely on the first three. I don't see how anyone can argue them.

As far as the fourth, there are plenty of good names out there including the ones you listed, plus Doc, Lucas and maybe others.

[MU82]

Agree completely on the first three. I don't see how anyone can argue them.

As far as the fourth, there are plenty of good names out there including the ones you listed, plus Doc, Lucas and maybe others.

I like Rivers a lot, but he wasn't really a great college basketball player and his teams didn't win diddly. But Lucas I could get behind, as well as any of several others.

[GooooMarquette]

I like Rivers a lot, but he wasn't really a great college basketball player and his teams didn't win diddly. But Lucas I could get behind, as well as any of several others.

Yeah, but Doc gets karma points for the halfcourt shot against ND. 

Seriously, I agree that others have a much better case for the fourth entry.

[MU82]

Yeah, but Doc gets karma points for the halfcourt shot against ND. 

My single favorite shot in my Marquette history.

[4everwarriors]

My single favorite shot in my Marquette history.

C'mon man, nothin' trumps J's winnin' basket vs UNCC, aina?

[MU82]

C'mon man, nothin' trumps J's winnin' basket vs UNCC, aina?

That was before MY Marquette history. I'm much younger than you, nu?

[4everwarriors]

Age don't mean stink, boychik, aina?

[MU82]

Age don't mean stink, boychik, aina?

I'll make it real basic for you:

Most Important Shot In MU History: Whitehead's vs UNCC.

My Favorite Shot Since I Personally Had Any Affiliation At All with Marquette: Rivers' vs ND.

If you still don't understand, maybe ask a 4-year-old to explain it to you, nu?

[Newsdreams]

If we're just doing this for jokes now.

No Magic Dawson?