Asbestos

[Efficient Frontier]

This is really out there but wondering if any scoopers are more experienced than I.

Recently purchased an older (>100 yrs) home, which will benefit from some moderate renovations.

First in our list is the removal of popcorn ceilings on the second floor and installing recessed lighting.

I've not yet had the ceiling tested for asbestos, but know that it is a likelihood that it is present in the material.

I've reached out to several contractors about the project so far, and they fall generally into two groups: 1) Contractors with experience in the area doing renovations; 2) Specialists in asbestos abatement.

So far the phone calls have resulted in 100% of asbestos abatement professionals telling me "if it's a popcorn ceiling, it's absolutely asbestos." 100% of contractors have told me "it's definitely not asbestos. We can take care of this for you, etc"

Some random thoughts...
1) It seems obvious that the advice is not based on evidence, but rather incentive.
2) It seems like the actual danger of an improper removal of the material would be to the contractor himself?

Part of me is suspecting that asbestos risks are similar to that of smoking. The FDA would never tell me it was safe to smoke a pack of cigarettes today. However, one pack of cigarettes (while not healthy) really doesn't pose a significant health risk.

Is it possible this is the case with asbestos? How concerned would you be about having a well-recommended contractor (which is not licensed in asbestos abatement) handle this?

Any experienced scoopers here with similar projects?

[D'Lo Brown]

It poses a health risk insofar that lung cancer is a horrific disease and awful way to die.

As far as I'm aware, there is no safe level of asbestos dust exposure. Any exposure at all is potentially hazardous. Any exposure to asbestos dust can cause cancer. There is a dose-dependent relationship, of course, but I wouldn't really compare it to smoking cigarettes.

Notably, there is a long time that it takes to develop the cancer... Something like 40 or 50 years. Depending on your age, you might decide to not worry about it? But pray you don't have any children scampering around or getting into anything.

Can't you buy an asbestos test kit on Amazon to be sure? Seems like the clear solution to your quandary.

[Efficient Frontier]

It poses a health risk insofar that lung cancer is a horrific disease and awful way to die.

As far as I'm aware, there is no safe level of asbestos dust exposure. Any exposure at all is potentially hazardous. Any exposure to asbestos dust can cause cancer. There is a dose-dependent relationship, of course, but I wouldn't really compare it to smoking cigarettes.

Notably, there is a long time that it takes to develop the cancer... Something like 40 or 50 years. Depending on your age, you might decide to not worry about it? But pray you don't have any children scampering around or getting into anything.

Can't you buy an asbestos test kit on Amazon to be sure? Seems like the clear solution to your quandary.

I will of course have it professionally tested before moving forward. Not sure I'd trust results I'd sampled myself, or that I wouldn't create exposure.

I'm not sure that it is absolutely required to have an abatement professional handle this in order to render the house safe. In short, looking for a little more evidence that removal by a reputable contractor (though not asbestos certified) definitely equals asbestos dust all over my home. Not saying it's definitely incorrect.

Many states even allow homeowners to remove asbestos themselves (including mine). Would certainly trust a contractor over myself with removal.

[forgetful]

https://www.thespruce.com/asbestos-popcorn-ceiling-removal-1822305

Good advice here.

I'd send off a sample to an accredited testing lab and then go from there.

[Its DJOver]

While not abatement certified myself, I have several co-workers who are, and based on my experience, given the specs provided, I might not put it at 100%, but I would put it north of 95% that there is at least some asbestos there.  A lot of people underestimate just how many products contained it before the risks were realized.  I wouldn't touch anything until it's been tested and make a judgement call based on the results + the extent of the renovations.  If the job can be done with a couple of glove bags, a contractor can probably get along just fine, however if more extensive containment is required (full disclosure, it sounds like this is the case, if you're fully replacing the ceiling), I would turn to the abatement professions.

A couple random notes; (1)while it's true that there is no safe amount, the only way to truly avoid it is to live in a bubble, it is literally everywhere, and the vast majority of people will be exposed and suffer no health problems as a result.  (2)  The most important sentence of the link provided by forgetful is this "As long as asbestos fibers are not released, they are safe."  Depending on the extent of your renovations the best course of action may be to find out that it is there, and just leave in contained in a wall or ceiling.  As long as it is contained there is no risk to anyone of being exposed.

[#UnleashSean]

As far as I know.

I've never seen popcorn ceiling without asbestos. Anyone who claims without looking it's not asbestos is to not be trusted.

In conclusion, you shouldn't mess with asbestos, get it properly removed even on the off chance it isn't.

[SERocks]

Wonder if it would be cheaper to slap up another layer of drywall?

[Efficient Frontier]

As far as I know.

I've never seen popcorn ceiling without asbestos. Anyone who claims without looking it's not asbestos is to not be trusted.

In conclusion, you shouldn't mess with asbestos, get it properly removed even on the off chance it isn't.

Agreed - I'd add that anyone claiming that it definitely is asbestos without testing is also not super trustworthy.

[rocky_warrior]

Disclaimer : you probably shouldn't listen to anything I say, I'll probably die from lung cancer.

Having owned several old (1920s-1940) houses myself, you ceiling likely has asbestos and has been painted with lead paint.  If you tackle it with a belt sander and no respirator mask  - you'll might have problems down the line.  If you (or a contractor) handle it (both the lead and asbestos) carefully - minimize dust, wear a mask, and double bagged & sealed disposal - you'll probably be fine.

But then again, you'll probably die of cancer anyway. 

[muwarrior69]

A house that old will also have lead based paint and lead plumbing. Some other things to consider unless it was totally gutted.

[Cheeks]

We had Popcorn ceilings, house built in early 70's.  We scraped them all.  We did not have it tested.  It's a risk.  Life is a risk.  We are all going to die.

[#UnleashSean]

We had Popcorn ceilings, house built in early 70's.  We scraped them all.  We did not have it tested.  It's a risk.  Life is a risk.  We are all going to die.

Great advice. Let me go eat this plutonium because life's a risk and I'm going to die anyways. 

[mu_hilltopper]

A thin layer of Arby's horsey sauce on the ceiling will render the asbestos delicious.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

A thin layer of Arby's horsey sauce on the ceiling will render the asbestos delicious.

"My name is Doug Hilltopper, and I have mesothelioma."

[Cheeks]

Great advice. Let me go eat this plutonium because life's a risk and I'm going to die anyways. 

One would think one could weigh risks accordingly.....normal people do this every day.....I assumed that was understood.


Some articles on asbestos and popcorn ceilings.  Yup, it's a risk....it's a small risk.  Make your decision accordingly.  If you want to eat plutonium, hook up with UnleashCain who apparently might have access to some good stuff.

https://www.thebalance.com/should-you-buy-a-home-with-popcorn-ceilings-1798259

https://www.asbestos.com/blog/2018/07/24/asbestos-popcorn-ceiling-safe/

[Cheeks]

As far as I know.

I've never seen popcorn ceiling without asbestos. Anyone who claims without looking it's not asbestos is to not be trusted.

In conclusion, you shouldn't mess with asbestos, get it properly removed even on the off chance it isn't.

Yes, there are popcorn ceilings without asbestos.

[Benny B]

Is a little bit of asbestos going to kill you?  Not necessarily.

Is a tiny bit of asbestos going to raise a bunch of problems and expose you to liability you haven't begun to contemplate?  Absolutely.


Example 1: There's a potential asbestos condition which you did not reasonably investigate (and obviously did not remediate), and someone who was a guest in your home is diagnosed with mesothelioma. 

Example 2: You go to sell the home after having performed renovations without remediation asbestos.  Even if the buyer is willing to look past, their lender will not.

[tower912]

Everybody dies.  Try to act in such a manner that most of the people who know you or your on line persona will miss you when you are gone.

[lawdog77]

  If you want to eat plutonium, hook up with UnleashCain who apparently might have access to some good stuff.

Is it black market plutonium?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Is it black market plutonium?

[Cheeks]

Is it black market plutonium?

Is there any other kind here in the USA for non gov't purchaser?  But I bet if we legalize it, the positives for society would be awesome.

[forgetful]

Is there any other kind here in the USA for non gov't purchaser?  But I bet if we legalize it, the positives for society would be awesome.

You can legally buy plutonium from several sources in the US. It is just very highly regulated.

[Herman Cain]

Spend the money and get the asbestos abated . That will be an asset when you eventually sell the place.