Nico's potential impact

[Galway Eagle]

There are transfers every year.  From what I've heard Gabe wanted to get back out to the West Coast.  Maybe it was a convenient excuse for "I don't want to compete for minutes," but given that he was a West Coast kid who started on the West Coast and ended up back on the West Coast, even if it meant moving down to mid or low major status instead of Big East basketball, it makes some sense.

He was not a west coast kid, he went to my high school. He started playing out west in college

[BallBoy]

I am going to say that Nico is closer to a four year player than a one year player. One and dones typically have a unique skill set or genetic advantage. HE was a 6'10" pf who could shoot from the outside. Reminded people of Dirk. He dropped from a lottery to number 18.

Nico is a 6'3 skinny kid with great skills.  There are a lot of 6'3 players who are good to elite. Like Jerel many of those will be fringe NBA players.  The last 6'3ft guard one and done was Kyrie Irving in 2011.

Moral of the story get the best players that you can but don't worry about losing them. There are only 7-8 one and dones a year.

[Loose Cannon]

As long as the best player fits what you want to do with the team you take him.

After all the posting in this thread, the above is how it's Boils down for me.  Thanks Newsie

[bilsu]

I am going to say that Nico is closer to a four year player than a one year player. One and dones typically have a unique skill set or genetic advantage. HE was a 6'10" pf who could shoot from the outside. Reminded people of Dirk. He dropped from a lottery to number 18.

Nico is a 6'3 skinny kid with great skills.  There are a lot of 6'3 players who are good to elite. Like Jerel many of those will be fringe NBA players.  The last 6'3ft guard one and done was Kyrie Irving in 2011.

Moral of the story get the best players that you can but don't worry about losing them. There are only 7-8 one and dones a year.

Trae Young was only 6'2" and he was one and done this year.

[77ncaachamps]

What I want to know is if Nico commits to MU, does Marquette become Italy's favorite NCAA team?
The Travis Diener, DJO connections must also help, right?

[MU82]

My take on this is the poster is trying to find ways to make himself feel better if we do not get Nico.

If you are talking about me, your feeling is wrong.

I rarely think we "lose" a recruit because they aren't ours to lose. I guess if Henry or Joey had opted to go elsewhere after we had signed their brothers, I would have thought we "lost" them. But I didn't think we "lost" Grimes or we "lost" Young or we "lost" some of the guys discussed for this year's class.

I hope we get Nico.

But I already feel good about myself and our program, and if we "lose" him I won't feel we "failed" at something.

[Galway Eagle]

If you are talking about me, your feeling is wrong.

I rarely think we "lose" a recruit because they aren't ours to lose. I guess if Henry or Joey had opted to go elsewhere after we had signed their brothers, I would have thought we "lost" them. But I didn't think we "lost" Grimes or we "lost" Young or we "lost" some of the guys discussed for this year's class.

I hope we get Nico.

But I already feel good about myself and our program, and if we "lose" him I won't feel we "failed" at something.

I think it's fair to say we lost Dunn as he said MU was his dream school

[MU82]

I think it's fair to say we lost Dunn as he said MU was his dream school

I didn't follow that recruitment. I will defer to those who did.

I'd be interested in seeing an article or two about Dunn calling MU his dream school and about why Buzz ended up not getting him.

I stand by my assertion that very rarely is a recruit one school's to "lose." Not saying it never happens -- and indeed I said it would have happened if Joey had gone elsewhere -- just that it's rare.

[muwarrior69]

I didn't follow that recruitment. I will defer to those who did.

I'd be interested in seeing an article or two about Dunn calling MU his dream school and about why Buzz ended up not getting him.

I stand by my assertion that very rarely is a recruit one school's to "lose." Not saying it never happens -- and indeed I said it would have happened if Joey had gone elsewhere -- just that it's rare.

So Vander to MU was the exception?

[brewcity77]

I didn't follow that recruitment. I will defer to those who did.

I'd be interested in seeing an article or two about Dunn calling MU his dream school and about why Buzz ended up not getting him.

I stand by my assertion that very rarely is a recruit one school's to "lose." Not saying it never happens -- and indeed I said it would have happened if Joey had gone elsewhere -- just that it's rare.

Dunn said that early on. At the time, he was a 3-star and probably a little down Buzz's pecking order of recruits. By the time he blossomed into a 5-star All American, Providence was well in there.

Had Buzz pursued hard early, we probably had a shot, but the consensus was that Gabe York was both the better player and I believe we thought we were the favorite. By the time York committed to Arizona, Dunn's recruitment was too far along. He committed to Cooley 6 weeks later. That ended up being the rather disastrous Ferguson/Durley/Taylor class.

[MU82]

Dunn said that early on. At the time, he was a 3-star and probably a little down Buzz's pecking order of recruits. By the time he blossomed into a 5-star All American, Providence was well in there.

Had Buzz pursued hard early, we probably had a shot, but the consensus was that Gabe York was both the better player and I believe we thought we were the favorite. By the time York committed to Arizona, Dunn's recruitment was too far along. He committed to Cooley 6 weeks later. That ended up being the rather disastrous Ferguson/Durley/Taylor class.

Appreciate the history lesson, brewski. I think I remember others talking about that now.

So Vander to MU was the exception?

You're saying Bo "lost" Vander, right? If so, yes, it was an exception, kind of similar to the way Illinois lost Eric Gordon to Indiana. I really don't think this kind of thing happens very often, though.

For example, there are some Illinois fans who thought Weber "lost" Scheyer to Duke because Scheyer's high school coach was Weber's own brother. But Scheyer always wanted to go to Duke; he never was an Illinois "lean." So how could Weber have lost a player he never had the inside track on?

I also thought it was silly that some Scoopers claimed Wojo "lost" Grimes, a kid who never said Marquette was his first choice.

I mean, did Calipari and Izzo "lose" Ellenson to Marquette? I sincerely doubt that they think they did or that any of their intelligent fans thought so, either.

You can't lose something (or someone) you never had!

[Lennys Tap]

Appreciate the history lesson, brewski. I think I remember others talking about that now.

You're saying Bo "lost" Vander, right? If so, yes, it was an exception, kind of similar to the way Illinois lost Eric Gordon to Indiana. I really don't think this kind of thing happens very often, though.

For example, there are some Illinois fans who thought Weber "lost" Scheyer to Duke because Scheyer's high school coach was Weber's own brother. But Scheyer always wanted to go to Duke; he never was an Illinois "lean." So how could Weber have lost a player he never had the inside track on?

I also thought it was silly that some Scoopers claimed Wojo "lost" Grimes, a kid who never said Marquette was his first choice.

I mean, did Calipari and Izzo "lose" Ellenson to Marquette? I sincerely doubt that they think they did or that any of their intelligent fans thought so, either.

You can't lose something (or someone) you never had!

???????

So I guess Marquette never "lost" to Kansas in the 2003 FF. I mean, we were big underdogs, never led, never really had a chance. You can't lose something you never had, right Mike.

My position is that every guy you really after and get is a win and vice versa. In some of the losses you may have been a long shot (and the loss is therefore understandable/doesn't hurt as much) but they are losses nonetheless. It's a competition and there are only wins and losses - no ties or "others".

[MU82]

???????

So I guess Marquette never "lost" to Kansas in the 2003 FF. I mean, we were big underdogs, never led, never really had a chance. You can't lose something you never had, right Mike.

My position is that every guy you really after and get is a win and vice versa. In some of the losses you may have been a long shot (and the loss is therefore understandable/doesn't hurt as much) but they are losses nonetheless. It's a competition and there are only wins and losses - no ties or "others".

We've had this discussion before, Lenny, and we agreed to disagree.

I seriously don't think you can compare losing a game to another team -- a two-hour sporting event in which each team had an equal chance to win -- to "losing" a recruit to a different program when that recruit probably favored the other program strongly from the get-go or that recruit might have considered a half-dozen programs more than yours.

But hey, you're entitled to your viewpoint. (And I'm sure you appreciate me giving you that - ha!)

[Stretchdeltsig]

I think you have to consider the risk/reward factors.

Henry risks:

• Potential Transfers: Levin (18/7 as a senior) & Taylor (15/12 as a senior) left.
  
• Potential Transfers In Missed: Kyle Washington went to Cincinnati.
  
• Potential 2016 Freshmen Missed: Lamar Stevens to Penn State & Kalif Young to Providence.

Henry rewards:

• Draft Recognition: Could be first lottery pick for Wojo.
  
• Wins: Could get below average team to NCAA bubble.

Who knows what would've happened had Henry not come. Levin almost certainly stays, Taylor may have left regardless. I do think Henry impacted Washington's decision. Stevens I suspect still goes to Penn State, but I think Young likely would've come here. At the other end, Wojo didn't get a lottery pick but did get a first rounder. Even Henry couldn't turn that team into a NIT team, much less NCAA.

I'd say Henry was high risk, moderate reward. Had we made the tourney it would be remembered differently, but his presence likely adversely affected the roster without paying off as much as we hoped or maybe expected.

Nico risks:

• Potential Transfers: Greg seems like the only risk. If McEwen were to look at a transfer, it would likely only be as a grad because Mannion was staying a second year.
  
• Potential Transfers in Missed: This seems unlikely because McEwen is already here. Any 2019/20 transfers would likely come in expecting Mannion to be one-and-done.
  
• Potential Recruits Missed: With 2 scholarships, landing Mannion & not Bishop or Watts would be fine. Seems unlikely he'd impact the decision of Beekman or other 2020s.

Nico rewards:

• Draft Recognition: Another potential lottery & at least seemingly likely first round pick.
  
• Wins: The hope would be turning a certain NCAA team into a Final Four & National Championship contender.

To me, this seems low risk, high reward. You may have a transfer out, but Elliott could play at the 2 or 3 with Mannion and, having sat a year in residence, McEwen likely only leaves as a grad transfer if Mannion stays. Either way you're covered. Future recruits likely wouldn't be impacted as much because any 2019 transfers would be eligible after he leaves, the same for 2020 freshmen. As far as the reward, bringing someone in to get you to the Final Four or NC is a much bigger payoff than a mere bid. It's worth risking more for that.

Most likely, even with Mannion we don't make a Final Four or NC. The odds for even the best team are against winning those 6 straight games. But in my opinion, it's worth the gamble of losing a player or two because if it does pay off, there's no bigger reward in the sport.

My God man, have you ever heard of an executive summary?

[brewcity77]

My God man, have you ever heard of an executive summary?

Nope.

[Lennys Tap]

I seriously don't think you can compare losing a game to another team -- a two-hour sporting event in which each team had an equal chance to win -- to "losing" a recruit to a different program when that recruit probably favored the other program strongly from the get-go or that recruit might have considered a half-dozen programs more than yours.

Mike - do you honestly think when Duke plays Grambling St. both teams have "an equal chance to win"? We'll win the recruiting battle against a blue blood more often than Grambling St will win (never). And yet Duke gets a W and Grambling an L. Losses (on the court or in recruiting) hurt a lot less when you're a massive underdog - but they're still losses.

[Herman Cain]

My take on the topics discussed
Nico Mannion
1. Nico, by all accounts,  is an exceptional  point guard prospect .
2. MU has been looking for a talented point guard for some time.
3. If MU is successful in recruiting Nico, we will have four very solid , capable and complementary  guards in Markus, Greg, Koby and Nico. The rising tide will lift all 4 boats.
4. If Nico demonstrates the capability to be an early entrant into the NBA, then we will have a very good season(s)
5. I think it critical to sign a couple of solid guards in the 2020 class.

Henry
1. Henry was an exceptional College Basketball Player
2. The relationship between MU and Henry was mutually beneficial. MU was able to quickly reverse its future and got back on track to being a tournament worthy and Big East competitive team. In return ,Henry was allowed to showcase himself to the NBA .
3. Henry became a first round draft choice, which helped both MU in future recruiting and Henry so win/win.
4. Yes, as has been pointed out,  there was a significant cost to retaining Henry's services for only one year, but realistically a near 7 footer who put out the kind of consistent  and classic big man production he did was worth the trade off.

[MU82]

Mike - do you honestly think when Duke plays Grambling St. both teams have "an equal chance to win"? We'll win the recruiting battle against a blue blood more often than Grambling St will win (never). And yet Duke gets a W and Grambling an L. Losses (on the court or in recruiting) hurt a lot less when you're a massive underdog - but they're still losses.

All right, Lenny, I'm not going to argue this with you again. I again will agree to disagree with your take on this subject. Have a nice night.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

I find it funny that many of the know it alls are predicting this massive potential impact from Nico but in the next breath are steadfast in the coaching staff only allowing to him that he potentially be a starter.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I find it funny that many of the know it alls are predicting this massive potential impact from Nico but in the next breath are steadfast in the coaching staff only allowing to him that he potentially be a starter.

Actually you are the only one who has talked about that in this thread....

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Actually you are the only one who has talked about that in this thread....

Lol
If it wasnt said in this thread it wasnt said, thx mr clinton