College Athlete Union?

[mu03eng]

As opposed to white suburban schools? The problem is in homes and on the streets - not in the schools.

Malcolm Gladwell did a study about learning - comparing whites and minorities. He was curious because the testing always showed whites learning more. What he found was that if you did the testing on what they learned from Sept - May - there was little difference in how much students of any race or color learned. But when you tested from June - Aug. (end of one school year to the start of the next), there was a huge difference. This is where the white suburban culture paid off. Middle and upper-class parents have their children much more involved in the summer, where the poor minority kids in the inner cities are fending for themselves on the streets.

I really don't think there is a big difference in teachers in any districts. There are good and bad, caring and non-caring everywhere. Any teacher can tell you that when the parent is invested in their child's education, that child will do well.

This is 100% correct, and why all schools should go year round.

[Hards Alumni]

Racism often comes in the form of low expectations.  Poor, black kids from single families have no chance so don't expect much and explain away their problems.

Conversely, let's discount what teachers in private schools do because those kids are "easy" to teach.  Why?  Because they don't come to school with a gun?  What's so easy about teaching kids that want to excel?  By this logic, Buzz is over-rated as a coach ... roll the ball out on the court and with that talent anyone can coach them, correct?

Teacher unions play into the racism of low expectations, these are flawed kids (they will tell you) so unionized teachers are doing what they can in an impossible situation.  That's what they want you to believe.  That way they are held to no standard (and no one can be fired) and no one can demand more of them.

So teacher unions are racist?  That is what your point it?

[brandx]

Two racists here ... poor black kids from single families ... their born drug dealers, correct?  So don't expect them to be anything but a drug dealer.  In fact, let's just hire prison guards (CTU teachers) so they can get use to the rest of their lives.

Never said anything even closely resembling this. Makes me wonder where you learned your reading comprehension skills.

[brandx]

Racism often comes in the form of low expectations.  Poor, black kids from single families have no chance so don't expect much and explain away their problems.

Conversely, let's discount what teachers in private schools do because those kids are "easy" to teach.  Why?  Because they don't come to school with a gun?  What's so easy about teaching kids that want to excel?  By this logic, Buzz is over-rated as a coach ... roll the ball out on the court and with that talent anyone can coach them, correct?

Teacher unions play into the racism of low expectations, these are flawed kids (they will tell you) so unionized teachers are doing what they can in an impossible situation.  That's what they want you to believe.  That way they are held to no standard (and no one can be fired) and no one can demand more of them.

The reading comprehension thing again???

I think I said (actually I know I said) that studies show that minorities learn at the same rate as non-minorities in school.

[Tugg Speedman]

So teacher unions are racist?  That is what your point it?

Yes!

Because they have low expectations for these kids and therefore you should hold the teachers to low standards.  This means you should not fire them and (over)pay them well because you're suppose to thank god someone is willing to go into these schools and babysit them.

[Hards Alumni]

Yes!

Because they have low expectations for these kids and therefore you should hold the teachers to low standards.  This means you should not fire them and (over)pay them well because you're suppose to thank god someone is willing to go into these schools and babysit them.

And in no way do you think this is an oversimplification or an extreme generalization?

[Tugg Speedman]

And in no way do you think this is an oversimplification or an extreme generalization?

Of what? 

The question is about the Teacher's Union.  They are a vile organization that makes everything worse and should be eliminated.  They are big problem with public education today (yes, not the only problem).

I was never answering the question on how to fix public education.  It cannot until the union is eliminated.  Since it will not be, we are all wasting our time.

[brandx]

Of what? 

The question is about the Teacher's Union.  They are a vile organization that makes everything worse and should be eliminated.  They are big problem with public education today (yes, not the only problem).

I was never answering the question on how to fix public education.  It cannot until the union is eliminated.  Since it will not be, we are all wasting our time.

Just silly statements. So you hate unions. Who cares?

[Tugg Speedman]

Just silly statements. So you hate unions. Who cares?

Not all unions ... teacher's unions are tops of the list.  After that most Government employee unions make things worse.

And you should care, they are ruining this country.

[wildbill sb]

Not all unions ... teacher's unions are tops of the list.  After that most Government employee unions make things worse.

And you should care, they are ruining this country.

My, my, and here I thought it was global warming or unregulated fracking or corporate money laundering on Grand Cayman or NAFTA moving mfg jobs overseas or our foreign trade imbalance or the runaway defense budget or domestic secret drone surveillance or the epidemic of homeless people in our cities or our national propensity to install the policy of "Pax Americana" world wide and......... yadda, yadda. And all this time it's been teachers' unions.

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140128/AUTO0102/301280039/Ford-hourly-workers-get-8-800-bonus-checks

As long as this plays out in the executive suite too, I have no problem with this.

Not sure what you mean on the executive suite.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I have a vague recollection of Steve's name.  We all worked for Toby Peters when he showed up from SIU in 1980 before heading off to Syracuse for a stint.  Toby was the one who initiated student management of the union.  Other full timers at the time included Harry Wade in the Mugrack and Charlie Potts as Toby's right hand man.  During my two years in that position, we had 5 Supers and ran the Union with full authority after 4p and on weekends.  Still probably my favorite job.  Ironically, my son currently has Dr. Peters for class.

Today, SSP (Limo) is run using a similar model.  'Sarge' is the lone professional staffer.  All management is done by students, one of which is my daughter.  Great leadership experience.

Ah yes, Toby Peters.  Similar to your situation, we also ran the building at night and weekends.  It was a good experience for sure.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think it's also important to make a distinction between public and private unions.  Private unions absolutely have skin in the game, if they push to hard and make a company uncompetitive, guess what no more company, no more jobs.

Public unions do not have this same balance and can at times sit on both sides of the table (union members or family of union members in elected office).

In the football scenario, it is much closer to a private scenario, but as you point out, for it to work you have to tie actions to consequences.

I agree absolutely.  In fact, I think FDR was right that public unions shouldn't even exist.  They are contrary to the public good.

However, I would add that my bad experiences over the years were with private unions.  The issue at the AMU, my wife's 10+ years in her union, etc.   A lot of really good union people out there, and unfortunately a few that believe beating the shyte out of others if they don't get their way is how it is done.....all to save the brotherhood.

[GGGG]

Not sure what you mean on the executive suite.

I meant executive side.  I think that executive (administrative, professional, whatever) should be more performance based then they are.

[Tugg Speedman]

My, my, and here I thought it was global warming or unregulated fracking or corporate money laundering on Grand Cayman or NAFTA moving mfg jobs overseas or our foreign trade imbalance or the runaway defense budget or domestic secret drone surveillance or the epidemic of homeless people in our cities or our national propensity to install the policy of "Pax Americana" world wide and......... yadda, yadda. And all this time it's been teachers' unions.

Actually Teacher's unions are number 2, fluoridated water is #1!!

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://www.youtube.com/v/FY1xaoJPdek

[jesmu84]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/education/fight-over-effective-teachers-shifts-to-courtroom.html?ref=us&_r=1

[brandx]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/education/fight-over-effective-teachers-shifts-to-courtroom.html?ref=us&_r=1

Hard choices here. I think even most teachers would like to get rid of bad teachers. But they don't want to give up tenure where then any teacher could be gotten rid of for any reason.

I don't know the answer for it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Hard choices here. I think even most teachers would like to get rid of bad teachers. But they don't want to give up tenure where then any teacher could be gotten rid of for any reason.

I don't know the answer for it.

But but but it's about the kids.   

[Tugg Speedman]

Hard choices here. I think even most teachers would like to get rid of bad teachers. But they don't want to give up tenure where then any teacher could be gotten rid of for any reason.

I don't know the answer for it.

If they were paid according to performance, they absolutely would want to can lousy teachers.  But since they get paid on tenure, they are not interested in getting rid of dead weight.

[Lennys Tap]

Hard choices here. I think even most teachers would like to get rid of bad teachers. But they don't want to give up tenure where then any teacher could be gotten rid of for any reason.

I don't know the answer for it.

Probably almost every teacher would be okay with getting rid of the bad teachers - as long as they have a guarantee that their name can't be on that list.

[Tugg Speedman]

Probably almost every teacher would be okay with getting rid of the bad teachers - as long as they have a guarantee that their name can't be on that list.

Who else gets this deal?  Do you have this deal at your job?  I don't.  

It is exactly this mentality that is killing public education.

ADDED

Imagine a sports team getting together and saying "I'm OK with cutting bad players as long as you can guarantee I won't be cut."

[Hards Alumni]

Who else gets this deal?  Do you have this deal at your job?  I don't.  

It is exactly this mentality that is killing public education.

ADDED

Imagine a sports team getting together and saying "I'm OK with cutting bad players as long as you can guarantee I won't be cut."

No one gets that deal.  Not even teachers.  I suspect you dont know as much as you think you do about the teachers union.

[ChicosBailBonds]

No one gets that deal.  Not even teachers.  I suspect you dont know as much as you think you do about the teachers union.

Not sure I agree.  Out here, tenure trumps all.   If you are a good teacher and don't have the tenure and cuts are arriving..bye bye.  Bad teacher with tenure keeps plugging along....but remember its all about the kids and what they are learning.   


Which brings me to another topic.  Those here that believe kids should be able to transfer without any sitting out and yet they are opposed to a kid "transferring" to another school because his\her elementary, middle or high school is a disgrace....weird.

[Tugg Speedman]

Not sure I agree.  Out here, tenure trumps all.   If you are a good teacher and don't have the tenure and cuts are arriving..bye bye.  Bad teacher with tenure keeps plugging along....but remember its all about the kids and what they are learning.   

+1

It works this way everywhere, and it is a disgrace and the single most destructive aspect of being of teacher.  It drives out good teachers and rewards bad teachers.

Earlier I noted that private schools pay less than public schools.  Their is no shortage of good teachers than cannot stand how tenure destroys public schools and are willing to take an initial pay cut to get into an environment that rewards excellence.  Eventually, if they are good, they get paid and really enjoy their job.  If they're not good,they're shown the door.

Hards ... I know more about the teachers union than most teachers.