Just returned from South Bend

[NersEllenson]

AnotherMU--I think we could be Michigan State.

Goose - Sorry Buddy - but you are delusional in this topic..not citing the specific post I've highlighted above, but all of your responses.  This aint 1970, nor the Al McGuire college basketball landscape anymore.  The MU program had exactly about 15 years of sunshine and prominence under Al McGuire who is an ALL-TIME LEGEND in college basketball.  Buzz is the closest thing MU has had to an Al McGuire since Al left - Buzz can recruit nationally and at the JUCO ranks, and is also a little quirky and weird.  He's not a dime a dozen guy.  There were rumors of him being a candidate for the Oregon job last year too.

Buzz is in Year 3.  He's got a 64% winning percentage playing in the toughest or 2nd toughest league in the country. 

You do realize MU is NOT a destinatin coaching job, correct?  You do realize that Tony Bennett, Sean Miller, Keno Davis, Anthony Grant all passed on interviewing with MU when the job was open, correct?  MU is in a cold weather city, no football team, a small private school - how many Duke's are there in the country?  The deck is plenty stacked against an MU coach - why do you think Tom Crean got out of MKE?  Why do you think Kevin O'Neill got out of MKE?  Duh.  You want to trumpet their accomplishments - which I"m proud of too - but they also felt there were better opportunities elsewhere - and neither of them came down to money.

Buzz is an absolute rising star as a coach, and probably in the converstaton for the best coach under 40 in America (along with Brad Stevens at Butler - who hasn't looked so good this year).

Hell, you even mention you voted for MU to be an Elite 8 team??  If you believe that, then why are you complaingin and questioning if Buzz is the right guy for this job? 

[Goose]

Ners--I have one question, if MU is not a destination job why is "rising" star still here?

You made many valid points and would agree 100% on the landscape today vs. Al's time.

So KO did not ultimately leave because of money?

TC did not ultimately leave because program Godfather gave him lip service?

They ultimately left directly or indirectly for money. KO knew MU would not pay him and TC was afraid MU could stop paying him.

[NersEllenson]

Ners--I have one question, if MU is not a destination job why is "rising" star still here?

You made many valid points and would agree 100% on the landscape today vs. Al's time.

So KO did not ultimately leave because of money?

TC did not ultimately leave because program Godfather gave him lip service?

They ultimately left directly or indirectly for money. KO knew MU would not pay him and TC was afraid MU could stop paying him.

As for why Buzz is still here - think there are 2 solid reasons - and 1 of which you have already mentioned:

1) He probably does have a fair amount of gratitude for being given the opportunity to coach at MU considering he only had 1 year of experience as a Head Coach elsewhere - and Buzz seems to be a fairly aware person, who likely would rewardthe chance taken on him with a decent degree of gratitude/loyalty.

2) Most coaches don't get an offer to go elsewhere after just 2 season at the helm - KO left after  5 years, Crean after 9.  Combine this with Buzz not having an agent, and repeatedly saying he'll be at MU as long as MU will have him...doesn'tseem to be a lot of reason to go after Buzz.

I was at MU when K.O> left, and quite close to the program - and from everything I knew...money was not the reason he left - and from all accounts, MU would have matched whatever Tom Crean was offered elsewhere.

Obviously you are entitled to your opinions, but to me it just seems a little premature to question Buzz - the reality of many MU fans is that if Buzz/team turnaround and beat UCONN and then Syracuse..all will be well again - but if they happen to lose a late lead in one of the games...all of a sudden Buzz won't be able to coach, etc. etc...

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ners--I have one question, if MU is not a destination job why is "rising" star still here?

You made many valid points and would agree 100% on the landscape today vs. Al's time.

So KO did not ultimately leave because of money?

TC did not ultimately leave because program Godfather gave him lip service?

They ultimately left directly or indirectly for money. KO knew MU would not pay him and TC was afraid MU could stop paying him.

TC left because he had a chance to be at one of the 5 great programs of all time.  Sure, he made more money but that wasn't the reason he left.  He couldn't land bigs at MU but has landed 4 bigs now in just the next 2 years at IU.  It's just a lot easier to recruit at a place like IU then MU.  Money wasn't the reason.

[Tugg Speedman]

TC left because he had a chance to be at one of the 5 great programs at all time.  Sure, he made more money but that wasn't the reason he left.  He couldn't land bigs at MU but has landed 4 bigs now in just the next 2 years at IU.  It's just a lot easier to recruit at a place like IU then MU.  Money wasn't the reason.

So are you saying the the clock now ticking in IU?  Two years and no NCAA and he's gone?

[Goose]

Chico's--I respect TC almost as much as you do but I do think there is more to departure. All coaches are insecure in some way TC was getting heat from important people. Not your getting fired heat, but heat to perform. He was not leaving for Iowa but I do not think IU was only place he would have gone that year.

Ners---I was pretty close to program in KO years as well. KO had plenty of issues and money was not only thing, but it was a big reason.

So my question on Buss is, are you worried if we continue to perform at current level that Buzz is gone in 3 years or six years? I think better chance is fired than him going to destination job. For the record I do NOT think he should or will be fired. Just cannot see big time job lurking over Buzz's shoulder. MU is as big as it gets for him.

[NersEllenson]

Chico's--I respect TC almost as much as you do but I do think there is more to departure. All coaches are insecure in some way TC was getting heat from important people. Not your getting fired heat, but heat to perform. He was not leaving for Iowa but I do not think IU was only place he would have gone that year.

Ners---I was pretty close to program in KO years as well. KO had plenty of issues and money was not only thing, but it was a big reason.

So my question on Buss is, are you worried if we continue to perform at current level that Buzz is gone in 3 years or six years? I think better chance is fired than him going to destination job. For the record I do NOT think he should or will be fired. Just cannot see big time job lurking over Buzz's shoulder. MU is as big as it gets for him.

K.O. - Hated the Old Gym..said MU needed better facilities..that was 1 component of his leaving, along with a few run ins with DiUlio...

Reagrding Buzz - If we continue to perform at current levels - keep in mind we have NO idea how this season could end up - I personally still think we have a legit shot to be a Sweet 16 team) - I can see schools tryin gto get Buzz that are BCS conference schools, with footbal teams..in the SEC or Big 12.  Not surre that an Auburn, Texas Tach, Arkansas would be a better basketball program than MU - but they have some things going for them that MU does not..namely security through a football team.

I'd say the chances of Buzz gettin grecruited out of MU are FAR greeater than him getting fired - almost to the tune of 10 to 1 more likely that he'd get recruited out of MU, than get fired.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

TC left because he had a chance to be at one of the 5 great programs of all time.  Sure, he made more money but that wasn't the reason he left.  He couldn't land bigs at MU but has landed been handed 4 bigs now from his AAU program in just the next 2 years at IU.  It's just a lot easier to recruit at a place like IU then MU.  Money wasn't the reason.

fixed.

[mu_hilltopper]

Just wanted to chime in on a previous message in this thread .. I have not seen any noticable difference in (actual) attendance over the past 3+ years -- if anything, it's gone up, especially with the 1,000 $99 season tickets in the upper end zone.

Minus the cupcakes, and minus the days the students are gone, the lower bowl is always 90%+ full. 

Has the rabidity level of fans gone down?  I'll say yes.  And that translates into a few percent drop in actual attendance.   So many years of soul crushing losses, so many years of 5th place finishes (should we hang a banner?) .. so many years of beating up on the lower half of the BE, losing most to the upper half .. so many years of one and dones in March == less rabid fans. 

We've seen this movie before, and it's gotten sadly predictable.   

None of that has to do with Buzz, other than he hasn't broken out of that predictable level of "success" that Crean had (minus his Robert Jackson year.)   

[mviale]

Getting to the dance is the key. Its all about luck and seeding after that.  Fans are spoiled

[mu_hilltopper]

Spoiled?  How so?   That we're not a worse team, so we should be happy with just making it to March?

Huh.  Well, there you go.