MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: muguru on July 27, 2019, 12:58:17 PM

Title: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: muguru on July 27, 2019, 12:58:17 PM
This is out of nowhere..

🏀
ND Hoops Recruits
@NDHoopsRecruits
MBB: $ site is reporting D3 transfer Austin Hutcherson (visited ND this week) will also visit Marquette, Illinois, & Creighton, then decide among the 4. 6-6 SG from NJ sits 1, plays 2.

2017-18 Stats

https://athletics.wesleyan.edu/sports/mbkb/2017-18/bios/hutcherson_austin_iou8

2018-2019 stats

https://athletics.wesleyan.edu/sports/mbkb/2018-19/players/austinhutcherson36g6
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: SaveOD238 on July 27, 2019, 01:23:34 PM
Numbers look good, but I don't know how well they would transfer to Div 1.  It's probably a good sign that ND, Illinois, and Creighton are in on him too
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: We R Final Four on July 27, 2019, 01:25:00 PM
Why does a transferring D3 player have to sit?  I didn't think that was the case--mistaken I guess.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Galway Eagle on July 27, 2019, 01:28:44 PM
Why does a transferring D3 player have to sit?  I didn't think that was the case--mistaken I guess.

This. Didn't that guy Depaul had from Lewis not have to sit?
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2019, 01:52:09 PM
Seems like they are usually eligible right away, but there are exceptions. From the NCAA website:

One-time transfer exception: If you transfer from a four-year school, you may be immediately eligible to compete at your new school if you meet ALL the following conditions:

You are transferring to a Division II or III school, or you are transferring to a Division I school in any sport other than baseball, men's or women's basketball, football (Football Bowl Subdivision) or men’s ice hockey. If you are transferring to a Division I school for any of the previously-listed sports, you may be eligible to compete immediately if you were not recruited by your original school and you have never received an athletics scholarship.

You are academically and athletically eligible at your previous four-year school.

You receive a transfer-release agreement from your previous four-year school.


Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: brewcity77 on July 27, 2019, 01:53:57 PM

One-time transfer exception: If you transfer from a four-year school, you may be immediately eligible to compete at your new school if you meet ALL the following conditions:

You are transferring to a Division II or III school, or you are transferring to a Division I school in any sport other than baseball, men's or women's basketball, football (Football Bowl Subdivision) or men’s ice hockey. If you are transferring to a Division I school for any of the previously-listed sports, you may be eligible to compete immediately if you were not recruited by your original school and you have never received an athletics scholarship.

You are academically and athletically eligible at your previous four-year school.

You receive a transfer-release agreement from your previous four-year school.


Might he have had a partial scholarship?
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: muguru on July 27, 2019, 02:02:10 PM
It's also possible I suppose that website had it wrong and he doesn't have to sit.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: MU82 on July 27, 2019, 02:38:54 PM
Looks like a good shooter. 41% career from 3. Pct went down from 44% to 39% as his usage went up, but he shot better during the conference season.

A kid's "game" might not transfer from D3 to D1, but shooting is shooting. Certainly worth a look.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Herman Cain on July 27, 2019, 02:53:20 PM
This is out of nowhere..

🏀
ND Hoops Recruits
@NDHoopsRecruits
MBB: $ site is reporting D3 transfer Austin Hutcherson (visited ND this week) will also visit Marquette, Illinois, & Creighton, then decide among the 4. 6-6 SG from NJ sits 1, plays 2.

2017-18 Stats

https://athletics.wesleyan.edu/sports/mbkb/2017-18/bios/hutcherson_austin_iou8

2018-2019 stats

https://athletics.wesleyan.edu/sports/mbkb/2018-19/players/austinhutcherson36g6
Was a high school teammate of Niels Lane......
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: TedBaxter on July 27, 2019, 02:55:34 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3gLBtB5NO8

Brendan Bailey with more guard skills. 
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: TAMU Eagle on July 27, 2019, 03:21:26 PM
Why does a transferring D3 player have to sit?  I didn't think that was the case--mistaken I guess.

My understanding is that if you transfer down, you can be immediately eligible, if you transfer up, you have to sit.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: StillAWarrior on July 27, 2019, 03:30:39 PM
This. Didn't that guy Depaul had from Lewis not have to sit?

Like TAMU said, if you transfer down, you can be immediately eligible.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: TAMU Eagle on July 27, 2019, 03:35:26 PM
This. Didn't that guy Depaul had from Lewis not have to sit?

The Strus did not get loose until after a mandatory redshirt season
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Newsdreams on July 27, 2019, 03:53:34 PM
Was a high school teammate of Niels Lane......
Lol excellent joke
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Herman Cain on July 27, 2019, 03:56:22 PM
Lol excellent joke
And always remember Symir is tied into Jeenathan Williams ..,..
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Newsdreams on July 27, 2019, 04:05:19 PM
And always remember Symir is tied into Jeenathan Williams ..,..
6 degrees of separation, hey?
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: #UnleashCain on July 27, 2019, 04:08:22 PM
Might he have had a partial scholarship?

I was under the impression that d3 could not give out athletic scholarships
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 27, 2019, 04:29:32 PM
Numbers look good, but I don't know how well they would transfer to Div 1.  It's probably a good sign that ND, Illinois, and Creighton are in on him too

Michigan added Duncan Robinson from DIII and he’s in the nba now
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 27, 2019, 05:33:08 PM
My understanding is that DIII schools cannot give athletic scholarships.

I think the hang up may be the provision that says "you were not recruited by your original school". He was getting interest from some DI schools in the Patriot and Ivy leagues, and it looks like Wesleyan also "recruited" him.

https://www.madehoops.com/news_article/show/666002-austin-hutcherson-adding-college-looks-and-evaluating-the-recruiting-process

Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Cheeks on July 27, 2019, 07:22:13 PM
My understanding is that DIII schools cannot give athletic scholarships.

I think the hang up may be the provision that says "you were not recruited by your original school". He was getting interest from some DI schools in the Patriot and Ivy leagues, and it looks like Wesleyan also "recruited" him.

https://www.madehoops.com/news_article/show/666002-austin-hutcherson-adding-college-looks-and-evaluating-the-recruiting-process

Left the building, ehh
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: bilsu on July 27, 2019, 07:46:11 PM
Regardless of the rules, he may simply want to redshirt to work on his game.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: rocket surgeon on July 27, 2019, 11:20:33 PM
Like TAMU said, if you transfer down, you can be immediately eligible.

so if he transfers to depaul, no wait, ey ;)
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: auburnmarquette on July 28, 2019, 12:02:37 AM
Might he have had a partial scholarship?

While d3 schools seem to give academic scholarships to a number of athletes, I though the d3 distinction was that no athletic scholarships could be given.

That's just me going from memory when a soccer daughter actually had offers at all three levels and I was researching.

The worse revelation to me came when my twins both received nice D1 track offers and I realized outside of basketball and football everything is partial, but that's a tangent
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 28, 2019, 08:18:53 AM
D3 athletes can get academic scholarships but not athletic ones.  The NCAA actually audits D3 schools on occasion to ensure that athetes are getting roughly the same financial aid as non-athletes at any particular school.

Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Jay Bee on July 28, 2019, 10:14:12 AM
Likely sits

4-4 vs 2-4
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Herman Cain on July 28, 2019, 11:02:05 AM
Likely sits

4-4 vs 2-4
Would be best if he sat. Gives him a year to adjust to the faster pace of play in practice and  more importantly build his body up to the standard necessary to compete at the Big East level defensively.


Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Billy Hoyle on July 28, 2019, 12:38:54 PM
D3 athletes can get academic scholarships but not athletic ones.  The NCAA actually audits D3 schools on occasion to ensure that athetes are getting roughly the same financial aid as non-athletes at any particular school.

See the Kalamazoo College violation report on that. Athletic participation cannot have any role in awarding of aid to a student-athlete.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Celtic Truth on July 28, 2019, 04:17:40 PM
All of the NESCAC schools are elite academically and it’s a great basketball conference too. I play with a number of guys who play(ed) NESCAC ball. If this kids scoring over 20ppg he’s pretty legit
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Marcus92 on July 28, 2019, 09:10:39 PM
All of the NESCAC schools are elite academically and it’s a great basketball conference too. I play with a number of guys who play(ed) NESCAC ball. If this kids scoring over 20ppg he’s pretty legit.

Would be awesome if MU could land the next Terry Porter.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: The Lens on July 29, 2019, 08:46:49 AM
Would be awesome if MU could land the next Terry Porter.

That would make Wojo Dick Bennett.  And one of Wojo's kids would be Tony Bennett.  Then we'd be set with coaching for YEARS.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: brewcity77 on July 29, 2019, 09:32:06 AM
That would make Wojo Dick Bennett.  And one of Wojo's kids would be Tony Bennett.  Then we'd be set with coaching for YEARS.

Until Marquette runs Wojo off to give the job to Chad Harris, ostracizing the Wojciechowski family and insuring his son will end up leading Boston College (by way of LMU) to a national title.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: StillAWarrior on July 29, 2019, 09:37:34 AM
See the Kalamazoo College violation report on that. Athletic participation cannot have any role in awarding of aid to a student-athlete.

My recollection -- and you could probably verify -- is that even leadership roles in athletics (e.g., "four year team captain") cannot be considered for a scholarship based upon leadership activities.  If my understanding is correct, that always seemed a little unfair to me.  But, I guess I understand the thinking there...it would be a pretty significant loophole.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 29, 2019, 09:46:45 AM
My recollection -- and you could probably verify -- is that even leadership roles in athletics (e.g., "four year team captain") cannot be considered for a scholarship based upon leadership activities.  If my understanding is correct, that always seemed a little unfair to me.  But, I guess I understand the thinking there...it would be a pretty significant loophole.


Your understanding is correct.  In fact, D3 scholarship athletes cannot receive any scholarships from their local high school, community foundation, etc. based on athletic participation.

Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 29, 2019, 09:50:09 AM
Would be awesome if MU could land the next Terry Porter.

Pedant time:  Terry Porter was not a D3 athlete.  UWSP was a NAIA school at the time (back when the NCAA allowed NAIA schools to be members of the same conference).  As an NAIA school, Porter *may* have been eligible to receive athletic aid, and even then, those schools tend to be a little fast and loose with the rules.  That's the main reason the NCAA eventually forced the WSUC (now WIAC) schools to make a choice between NCAA and NAIA membership.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: The Lens on July 29, 2019, 10:17:56 AM
Until Marquette runs Wojo off to give the job to Chad Harris, ostracizing the Wojciechowski family and insuring his son will end up leading Boston College (by way of LMU) to a national title.

My understanding is the Bennett's harbor more more ill-will towards Indiana for the treatment of Kathi than they do for Marquette for ignoring KO's advice and not hiring Dick in 1994.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: brewcity77 on July 29, 2019, 11:10:52 AM
My understanding is the Bennett's harbor more more ill-will towards Indiana for the treatment of Kathi than they do for Marquette for ignoring KO's advice and not hiring Dick in 1994.

I was referring to the ill will the Bennetts harbor toward UW-Madison & the Platteville Posse. I'm taking the metaphor to mean Dick Bennett is to Steve Wojciechowski as UW-Madison is to Marquette.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: The Lens on July 29, 2019, 11:14:39 AM
I was referring to the ill will the Bennetts harbor toward UW-Madison & the Platteville Posse. I'm taking the metaphor to mean Dick Bennett is to Steve Wojciechowski as UW-Madison is to Marquette.

Gotcha.  I'm never really sure what to believe with the Bennetts / UW as Tony did a year or two on the bench with Bo before WSU.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: MUDPT on July 29, 2019, 11:35:19 AM
My understanding is the Bennett's harbor more more ill-will towards Indiana for the treatment of Kathi than they do for Marquette for ignoring KO's advice and not hiring Dick in 1994.

Fired her, I think, while she was undergoing cancer treatment. Supposedly TB has never considered them because of this.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: MU82 on July 29, 2019, 11:46:36 AM
Pedant time:  Terry Porter was not a D3 athlete.  UWSP was a NAIA school at the time (back when the NCAA allowed NAIA schools to be members of the same conference).

FWIW, the school's website says Porter was a Division III All-American in 1985 (and also an NAIA All-American in 1984 and 1985).
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Aircraftcarrier on July 29, 2019, 06:19:58 PM
Hutcherson has canceled his visit to Marquette
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: TheTulsaWarrior on July 29, 2019, 06:22:26 PM
That could mean two things. ;-( ;-)
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Herman Cain on July 29, 2019, 06:28:39 PM
That could mean two things. ;-( ;-)
Either
https://www.instagram.com/p/B0ecTguHPkd/?hl=en

Or

https://www.instagram.com/p/B0Y7NNUnlGS/?hl=en

Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: TAMU Eagle on July 29, 2019, 06:30:27 PM
Either
https://www.instagram.com/p/B0ecTguHPkd/?hl=en

Or

https://www.instagram.com/p/B0Y7NNUnlGS/?hl=en

Or Illinois. He's still taking his official visit there later this week.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Benny B on July 29, 2019, 08:22:39 PM
Seems like they are usually eligible right away, but there are exceptions. From the NCAA website:

One-time transfer exception: If you transfer from a four-year school, you may be immediately eligible to compete at your new school if you meet ALL the following conditions:

You are transferring to a Division II or III school, or you are transferring to a Division I school in any sport other than baseball, men's or women's basketball, football (Football Bowl Subdivision) or men’s ice hockey. If you are transferring to a Division I school for any of the previously-listed sports, you may be eligible to compete immediately if you were not recruited by your original school and you have never received an athletics scholarship.

You are academically and athletically eligible at your previous four-year school.

You receive a transfer-release agreement from your previous four-year school.


Conjunction Junction, y’all. D-III doesn’t have scholarships, but they do recruit. 
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 30, 2019, 01:54:41 PM
Hutcherson cancelled his visit to Marquette.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Benny B on July 30, 2019, 02:53:07 PM
Not that anyone asked, but here's where I generally come down on DII/III transfers to DI: Why doesn't it happen more often?

Occam's razor would suggest that most DII/III players simply aren't good enough for DI, otherwise, they would at least be playing for a low-major somewhere.  The handful of kids who are good enough are likely making a choice to go to a DII/III school for academic or personal/family reasons as opposed to riding the pine on a partial scholarship at Centenary or Oral Roberts.

For lack of a better example, look at Rob Jeter... he could have easily started at any low-major, perhaps some mid-majors, but somehow got conned into playing for Coach Feratu at UW-Platteville (though did win a D-III championship).

https://www.youtube.com/v/PIpBEmF5GB4

In short, DII/III isn't a stepping stone to high-major D-I like JUCO can be.... JUCO is a matter of kids being good enough fro D-I on the court but not good enough on their transcript.  If you can't qualify D-I, you won't qualify D-II/III either.

Moral of Story: There could always be an exception to the rule, but caveat emptor
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Jay Bee on July 30, 2019, 02:55:53 PM
Pedant time:  Terry Porter was not a D3 athlete. 

#FakeNews #Lies

#StN ppl b dummm
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 30, 2019, 03:23:50 PM
FWIW, the school's website says Porter was a Division III All-American in 1985 (and also an NAIA All-American in 1984 and 1985).

#FakeNews #Lies



So can you tell me how this is the case considering UWSP was an NAIA member until well after Porter left campus?  He was on the teams that made the 1983, 84 and 85 NAIA tournaments - his sophomore, junior and senior years.

I'm not being a smartass here.  I just don't understand how that works.  Did NAIA players qualify for D3 All American teams because they played in a conference with other D3 schools?
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Herman Cain on July 30, 2019, 03:54:28 PM
Not that anyone asked, but here's where I generally come down on DII/III transfers to DI: Why doesn't it happen more often?

Occam's razor would suggest that most DII/III players simply aren't good enough for DI, otherwise, they would at least be playing for a low-major somewhere.  The handful of kids who are good enough are likely making a choice to go to a DII/III school for academic or personal/family reasons as opposed to riding the pine on a partial scholarship at Centenary or Oral Roberts.

For lack of a better example, look at Rob Jeter... he could have easily started at any low-major, perhaps some mid-majors, but somehow got conned into playing for Coach Feratu at UW-Platteville (though did win a D-III championship).

In short, DII/III isn't a stepping stone to high-major D-I like JUCO can be.... JUCO is a matter of kids being good enough fro D-I on the court but not good enough on their transcript.  If you can't qualify D-I, you won't qualify D-II/III either.

Moral of Story: There could always be an exception to the rule, but caveat emptor
I think you laid it out very well.

There are 351 D1 Schools and over 1,000 kids recruited for those positions each year.  Then there are kids that from an athletic standpoint  bounce around that bottom part of D1 and instead will elect to go to DII where there are 64 more scholarship schools. As pointed out the kids who cannot qualify academically go JUCO.  So pretty much anyone who is qualified from a basketball standpoint can land somewhere on the spectrum of athletic  scholarship providing schools ( DI, DII or JUCO)

Conversely, there are kids who are decent performing students will explore the attractive higher end DIII schools and use their athletic credential to gain admission.  Some of these kids can make the bottom end of low major D! roster but not play much. So being the man at top NESCAC school is much more attractive.

Very rare for a DIII  basketball player to have the  overall athletic ability to play at a DI high major. There are occasionally  DII kids who have matured late physically and have made the move up to the high major level after excelling in DII.  We had two great examples of that recently in the Big East in Max Struss and Zach Hankins.

There was also a case a few years back of a kid that Michigan State had recruited with some fan fare, who did not play much his first three years,  who elected to move down to DIII for his senior season because he wanted to actually have a college basketball experience.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Jay Bee on July 30, 2019, 07:08:06 PM

So can you tell me how this is the case considering UWSP was an NAIA member until well after Porter left campus?  He was on the teams that made the 1983, 84 and 85 NAIA tournaments - his sophomore, junior and senior years.

I'm not being a smartass here.  I just don't understand how that works.  Did NAIA players qualify for D3 All American teams because they played in a conference with other D3 schools?


Oh, I know you don't understand.

NABC can help you..

https://nabc.prestosports.com/awards/all_america/division_III/1980

Or think of your guy ZFB.. who is ... transitioning, hey
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: TedBaxter on July 30, 2019, 07:28:06 PM
Hey, that second team All-American for UW-Whitewater in 1985-86 could probably play D1 ball.  He did and quite well for Marquette for 3 years.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Herman Cain on July 30, 2019, 07:46:35 PM
Hey, that second team All-American for UW-Whitewater in 1985-86 could probably play D1 ball.  He did and quite well for Marquette for 3 years.
I have always said that if he would have stayed academically eligible, Majerus job may have been saved.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 30, 2019, 09:13:31 PM

Oh, I know you don't understand.

NABC can help you..

https://nabc.prestosports.com/awards/all_america/division_III/1980

Or think of your guy ZFB.. who is ... transitioning, hey


So you are saying that since UWSP was transitioning from NAIA to NCAA Division 3 that the NABC considered him part of the NCAA D3 all American team?  Even though at the time he clearly played for a NAIA school?
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: wadesworld on August 08, 2019, 12:53:15 PM
I was listening to Parrish and Norlander's podcast at work and they brought up this story.  Some of this might have been in some articles shared.  I was only half paying attention so some of the details might be wrong but they were saying basically the kid was at his D3 school and was working out over the summer at some gym where a couple former D1 players were playing and they were really impressed by him and asked him his background.  Apparently his plan was to play his junior year where he was and then try to transfer up to a low major D1 program for his senior season and these former D1 players basically told him no you need to act now you're good enough to play D1 basketball today, so they had him upload a highlight video of his sophomore season onto YouTube, got into contact with some coaches for him, had the kid send over full games from his sophomore season, and from there Notre Dame, Illinois, Creighton, and Marquette got involved.

Since he chose the Illini I can root the kid good luck.  Cool story.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: MU82 on August 08, 2019, 12:57:22 PM
I was listening to Parrish and Norlander's podcast at work and they brought up this story.  Some of this might have been in some articles shared.  I was only half paying attention so some of the details might be wrong but they were saying basically the kid was at his D3 school and was working out over the summer at some gym where a couple former D1 players were playing and they were really impressed by him and asked him his background.  Apparently his plan was to play his junior year where he was and then try to transfer up to a low major D1 program for his senior season and these former D1 players basically told him no you need to act now you're good enough to play D1 basketball today, so they had him upload a highlight video of his sophomore season onto YouTube, got into contact with some coaches for him, had the kid send over full games from his sophomore season, and from there Notre Dame, Illinois, Creighton, and Marquette got involved.

Since he chose the Illini I can root the kid good luck.  Cool story.

Thanks for providing this. I wish him well, too.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: brewcity77 on August 08, 2019, 01:07:36 PM
That was a good story. Too bad we didn't get a visit, but wish him the best. Sounds like a good kid that deserves the shot.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: auburnmarquette on August 09, 2019, 10:48:48 PM
Still miss going after jucos - that's how buzz delivered 3 straight sweet 16s. I love the.idea.of the 4 year player and at one point I noted mu had more 4 year players in the NBA at once than any other program. But with it heading toward 1000 players of the 4000 transferring every year, another 1000 finishing their eligibility every year, and then most who are truly elite going pro, I'd rather just bring in jucos who are ready to give 2 strong years to fill needs.then sit through the painful freshman growing pains. Not worth a new subject, but sounds like this kid would have been the same kind of get as the right jucos each year.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on August 10, 2019, 12:58:52 AM
Still miss going after jucos - that's how buzz delivered 3 straight sweet 16s. I love the.idea.of the 4 year player and at one point I noted mu had more 4 year players in the NBA at once than any other program. But with it heading toward 1000 players of the 4000 transferring every year, another 1000 finishing their eligibility every year, and then most who are truly elite going pro, I'd rather just bring in jucos who are ready to give 2 strong years to fill needs.then sit through the painful freshman growing pains. Not worth a new subject, but sounds like this kid would have been the same kind of get as the right jucos each year.

The MU admin ended those days.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: TAMU Eagle on August 10, 2019, 01:53:45 AM
Still miss going after jucos - that's how buzz delivered 3 straight sweet 16s. I love the.idea.of the 4 year player and at one point I noted mu had more 4 year players in the NBA at once than any other program. But with it heading toward 1000 players of the 4000 transferring every year, another 1000 finishing their eligibility every year, and then most who are truly elite going pro, I'd rather just bring in jucos who are ready to give 2 strong years to fill needs.then sit through the painful freshman growing pains. Not worth a new subject, but sounds like this kid would have been the same kind of get as the right jucos each year.

I think many MU fans have an overblown idea of how many talented jucos are out there. The vast majority of jucos end up at low majors or riding the bench for high majors. Buzz was an elite juco recruiter and got the best the NJCAA had to offer. It was an impressive talent. I did a project two years ago where I looked at all the JUCOs Wojo could have landed in his first three seasons (academics aside). In three years there was something like 12 JUCOs who legitimately could have been starters for us. A slightly larger group could have been role players. The rest wouldn't have cracked the roster.

The MU admin ended those days.

They did not. JUCOs can and still will be admitted. They just have to be able to graduate by the time their eligibility runs out. Wojo has recruited a couple of JUCOs with the admins blessing, and has even gotten visits from a couple. The reality is that we haven't landed any JUCOs because there aren't that many good enough to make the roster.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on August 10, 2019, 02:47:49 AM
They did not. JUCOs can and still will be admitted. They just have to be able to graduate by the time their eligibility runs out. Wojo has recruited a couple of JUCOs with the admins blessing, and has even gotten visits from a couple. The reality is that we haven't landed any JUCOs because there aren't that many good enough to make the roster.
When one shows up on a Wojo roster, please let us know. Wojo is the only coach in 50+years without a JUCO EVER on any of his rosters. To claim otherwise is disingenuous. Facts don’t lie.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: jsglow on August 10, 2019, 07:41:14 AM
When one shows up on a Wojo roster, please let us know. Wojo is the only coach in 50+years without a JUCO EVER on any of his rosters. To claim otherwise is disingenuous. Facts don’t lie.

You just completely moved the goalposts.  TAMU is correct regarding the policy.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 10, 2019, 08:08:47 AM
My recollection is that Wojo has looked at Jucos and even hosted one from Milwaukee who ended up in Wichita. He likely thinks it just isn’t worth the effort.

Also TAMU is right. Our experience leads us to believe they are more impactful than they really are.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: brewcity77 on August 10, 2019, 09:31:05 AM
My recollection is that Wojo has looked at Jucos and even hosted one from Milwaukee who ended up in Wichita. He likely thinks it just isn’t worth the effort.

Also TAMU is right. Our experience leads us to believe they are more impactful than they really are.

Wojo has hosted and offered a handful, but nothing like Buzz. I think if the right one that meets credentials wanted to commit, he would take them, but so far the stars haven't aligned. I also think connections matter. For Buzz, that was his world. Those were the people he knew, and even the ones he didn't knew he was the guy to reach out to if they thought they had a high-major talent.

Wojo has shown some interest, but that isn't where his roots or connections are, and not aggressively pursuing them in the past means he won't be the first person JUCO coaches call when they are looking for a good fit. It doesn't mean it can't happen, just that it will be less likely.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on August 10, 2019, 02:24:31 PM
You just completely moved the goalposts.  TAMU is correct regarding the policy.

Yes I was being a bit too literal with my comment so I apologize. Here is my point: There has been plenty of JUCO high talent available. Capel is even fishing in these waters. MU would theoretically take one if they somehow were academically perfect.  But, the reason these kids go to JUCO is they are academically a risk.  So, ipso facto.

This is a pool Wojo won’t go unless there is a perfect storm.

https://www.jucorecruiting.com/2019-juco-basketball-top-100-rankings
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: wadesworld on August 10, 2019, 02:43:45 PM
Yes I was being a bit too literal with my comment so I apologize. Here is my point: There has been plenty of JUCO high talent available. Capel is even fishing in these waters. MU would theoretically take one if they somehow were academically perfect.  But, the reason these kids go to JUCO is they are academically a risk.  So, ipso facto.

This is a pool Wojo won’t go unless there is a perfect storm.

https://www.jucorecruiting.com/2019-juco-basketball-top-100-rankings

You simply are wrong on the subject. Wojo can and has recruited JUCOs. There aren’t a ton that are high major D1 contributors and those that are are in high demand. Buzz had connections in the JUCO community and Wojo does not.

Do you think Wojo is just jerking around the JUCO players he’s brought to campus? He isn’t allowed to bring in JUCOs, according to you, yet he’s trying to get kids to come make an official visit?

This is like claiming that Wojo is not allowed to recruit the state of Texas.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: TAMU Eagle on August 10, 2019, 03:02:33 PM
Here is my point: There has been plenty of JUCO high talent available.

https://www.jucorecruiting.com/2019-juco-basketball-top-100-rankings

Has there? Because I looked a few years ago and there's usually only about 4 or 5 a year who would have been starters for Marquette. A slightly larger group could have been role players.

Look at the list you linked. The #2 JUCO is going to Missouri State. #3 and #8 are going to a Nebraska team that's projected to be sub 100. #6 and #16 Ole Miss? #7 SMU? #12 SLU? #17 North Texas? #19 New Mexico State? #24 Buffalo? #25 Eastern Illinois? #27 Coastal Carolina? Most of the best JUCOs aren't heading to elite teams. Those that do (#1 to Oregon, #4 to LSU, #9 to Virginia), most are not going to be starters but depth off the bench.

Look at that same site's list from last season:
#1 Wendell Mitchell was a star for a TAMU team that finished near last in the SEC
#2 Jordan Brangers went to Western Kentucky and was ruled ineligible
#3 Yuat Alok averaged 3.3 points a game for TCU before transferring to a low major
#4 Derek Funderburke was first guy off the bench for a solid NC State team
#5 Brian Halums averaged 1.8 points a game for Ole Miss
#6 Mohamed Thiam averaged 4.5 points a game for New Mexico State
#7 Shaq Carter averaged 4.5 points a game for Rutgers
#8 Trevelin Queen avereged 15 minutes a game for New Mexico State
#9 Charles Jones Jr averaged 2.6 points a game for a sub-100 Utah team
#10 Ivan Aurrecoechea averaged 17 minutes a game for New Mexico State
#11 Devante Bandoo was first guy off the bench for a solid Baylor team
#12 Andres Feliz was the fifth starter for a meh Illinois team
#13 Kur Kuath averaged 1.0 points for Oklahoma
#14 Roderick Williams averaged 17 minutes a game for Boise State
#15 Isaiah Tisdale started for East Tennessee State
#16 Antun Mariceveic averaged 3.5 points a game for South Florida
#17 Marlon Taylor started for LSU
#18 JJ Rhymes redshirtted for Grand Canyon
#19 Zach Naylor average 0.7 points for Ole Miss
#20 Tremell Murphy started for Drake
#21 Jethro Tshisumpa Mbiya redshirtted at Mississippi State
#22 Nick Marshall never committed anywhere
#23 Shane Gatling started at Colorado
#24 Ra'Shawn Langston was first guy off the bench at Louisiana Tech
#25 Darius Allen averaged 2.0 points a game at Baylor

So where is the top JUCO talent? I count one player who started on a team as good as or better than Marquette (#17 Marlon Taylor). I count one other guy who probably was good enough to start for Marquette (#1 Wendell Mitchell). I count four others who probably could have gotten significant minutes at MU last season (#4 Derek Funderburk, #11 Devante Bandoo, #12 Andres Feliz, #23 Shane Gatling).

Rankings aren't everything, I'm sure there were some gems ranked below the top 25. But if only 2 out of the top 25 could start for Marquette and only 4 of the remaining 23 were even likely to get minutes....I think the JUCO pool may be a little more shallow than you are advertising.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: MU82 on August 10, 2019, 03:06:13 PM
Has there? Because I looked a few years ago and there's usually only about 4 or 5 a year who would have been starters for Marquette. A slightly larger group could have been role players.

Look at the list you linked. The #2 JUCO is going to Missouri State. #3 and #8 are going to a Nebraska team that's projected to be sub 100. #6 and #16 Ole Miss? #7 SMU? #12 SLU? #17 North Texas? #19 New Mexico State? #24 Buffalo? #25 Eastern Illinois? #27 Coastal Carolina? Most of the best JUCOs aren't heading to elite teams. Those that do (#1 to Oregon, #4 to LSU, #9 to Virginia), most are not going to be starters but depth off the bench.

Look at that same site's list from last season:
#1 Wendell Mitchell was a star for a TAMU team that finished near last in the SEC
#2 Jordan Brangers went to Western Kentucky and was ruled ineligible
#3 Yuat Alok averaged 3.3 points a game for TCU before transferring to a low major
#4 Derek Funderburke was first guy off the bench for a solid NC State team
#5 Brian Halums averaged 1.8 points a game for Ole Miss
#6 Mohamed Thiam averaged 4.5 points a game for New Mexico State
#7 Shaq Carter averaged 4.5 points a game for Rutgers
#8 Trevelin Queen avereged 15 minutes a game for New Mexico State
#9 Charles Jones Jr averaged 2.6 points a game for a sub-100 Utah team
#10 Ivan Aurrecoechea averaged 17 minutes a game for New Mexico State
#11 Devante Bandoo was first guy off the bench for a solid Baylor team
#12 Andres Feliz was the fifth starter for a meh Illinois team
#13 Kur Kuath averaged 1.0 points for Oklahoma
#14 Roderick Williams averaged 17 minutes a game for Boise State
#15 Isaiah Tisdale started for East Tennessee State
#16 Antun Mariceveic averaged 3.5 points a game for South Florida
#17 Marlon Taylor started for LSU
#18 JJ Rhymes redshirtted for Grand Canyon
#19 Zach Naylor average 0.7 points for Ole Miss
#20 Tremell Murphy started for Drake
#21 Jethro Tshisumpa Mbiya redshirtted at Mississippi State
#22 Nick Marshall never committed anywhere
#23 Shane Gatling started at Colorado
#24 Ra'Shawn Langston was first guy off the bench at Louisiana Tech
#25 Darius Allen averaged 2.0 points a game at Baylor

So where is the top JUCO talent? I count one player who started on a team as good as or better than Marquette (#17 Marlon Taylor). I count one other guy who probably was good enough to start for Marquette (#1 Wendell Mitchell). I count four others who probably could have gotten significant minutes at MU last season (#4 Derek Funderburk, #11 Devante Bandoo, #12 Andres Feliz, #23 Shane Gatling).

Rankings aren't everything, I'm sure there were some gems ranked below the top 25. But if only 2 out of the top 25 could start for Marquette and only 4 of the remaining 23 were even likely to get minutes....I think the JUCO pool may be a little more shallow than advertised.

On the positive side, lots of fun names on that list.

My favorite is Trevelin Queen.

I mean, how good can a basketball player be if his first name practically is a rule violation?!?!
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on August 10, 2019, 03:11:42 PM
You simply are wrong on the subject. Wojo can and has recruited JUCOs. There aren’t a ton that are high major D1 contributors and those that are are in high demand. Buzz had connections in the JUCO community and Wojo does not.

Do you think Wojo is just jerking around the JUCO players he’s brought to campus? He isn’t allowed to bring in JUCOs, according to you, yet he’s trying to get kids to come make an official visit?

This is like claiming that Wojo is not allowed to recruit the state of Texas.

On all of MU sports rosters, there are zero JUCOs. Maybe a coincidence?  In the recruiting thread I have seen zero news about JUCOs.  Of course, that thread is mucked up and it could be in there.  I will look deeper for all this JUCO activity you reference.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on August 10, 2019, 03:42:40 PM
Has there? Because I looked a few years ago and there's usually only about 4 or 5 a year who would have been starters for Marquette. A slightly larger group could have been role players.

Look at the list you linked. The #2 JUCO is going to Missouri State. #3 and #8 are going to a Nebraska team that's projected to be sub 100. #6 and #16 Ole Miss? #7 SMU? #12 SLU? #17 North Texas? #19 New Mexico State? #24 Buffalo? #25 Eastern Illinois? #27 Coastal Carolina? Most of the best JUCOs aren't heading to elite teams. Those that do (#1 to Oregon, #4 to LSU, #9 to Virginia), most are not going to be starters but depth off the bench.

Look at that same site's list from last season:
#1 Wendell Mitchell was a star for a TAMU team that finished near last in the SEC
#2 Jordan Brangers went to Western Kentucky and was ruled ineligible
#3 Yuat Alok averaged 3.3 points a game for TCU before transferring to a low major
#4 Derek Funderburke was first guy off the bench for a solid NC State team
#5 Brian Halums averaged 1.8 points a game for Ole Miss
#6 Mohamed Thiam averaged 4.5 points a game for New Mexico State
#7 Shaq Carter averaged 4.5 points a game for Rutgers
#8 Trevelin Queen avereged 15 minutes a game for New Mexico State
#9 Charles Jones Jr averaged 2.6 points a game for a sub-100 Utah team
#10 Ivan Aurrecoechea averaged 17 minutes a game for New Mexico State
#11 Devante Bandoo was first guy off the bench for a solid Baylor team
#12 Andres Feliz was the fifth starter for a meh Illinois team
#13 Kur Kuath averaged 1.0 points for Oklahoma
#14 Roderick Williams averaged 17 minutes a game for Boise State
#15 Isaiah Tisdale started for East Tennessee State
#16 Antun Mariceveic averaged 3.5 points a game for South Florida
#17 Marlon Taylor started for LSU
#18 JJ Rhymes redshirtted for Grand Canyon
#19 Zach Naylor average 0.7 points for Ole Miss
#20 Tremell Murphy started for Drake
#21 Jethro Tshisumpa Mbiya redshirtted at Mississippi State
#22 Nick Marshall never committed anywhere
#23 Shane Gatling started at Colorado
#24 Ra'Shawn Langston was first guy off the bench at Louisiana Tech
#25 Darius Allen averaged 2.0 points a game at Baylor

So where is the top JUCO talent? I count one player who started on a team as good as or better than Marquette (#17 Marlon Taylor). I count one other guy who probably was good enough to start for Marquette (#1 Wendell Mitchell). I count four others who probably could have gotten significant minutes at MU last season (#4 Derek Funderburk, #11 Devante Bandoo, #12 Andres Feliz, #23 Shane Gatling).

Rankings aren't everything, I'm sure there were some gems ranked below the top 25. But if only 2 out of the top 25 could start for Marquette and only 4 of the remaining 23 were even likely to get minutes....I think the JUCO pool may be a little more shallow than you are advertising.

Thanks for the content and great response. I quickly counted 24 P6 recruits on that list. That seems like a lot to me.

Besides the MU debate which I beat to death, why do you think that the JUCO pool is drying up?
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: warriorchick on August 10, 2019, 03:48:02 PM
On the positive side, lots of fun names on that list.

My favorite is Trevelin Queen.

I mean, how good can a basketball player be if his first name practically is a rule violation?!?!

Careful.  You might be labeled a racist for saying stuff like that.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: TAMU Eagle on August 10, 2019, 03:53:18 PM
Thanks for the content and great response. I quickly counted 24 P6 recruits on that list. That seems like a lot to me.

Besides the MU debate which I beat to death, why do you think that the JUCO pool is drying up?

I honestly don't think it's drying up that much. I think we have had an exaggerated view of the JUCO pool because Buzz was so good at finding and developing them. I only started paying attention to this stuff since the Buzz years so my view is limited. Maybe it used to be there was a wealth of JUCO high major talent but this decade there really hasn't been. If I had to guess, its because now that there is 353 D1 schools players who used to go the juco route in hopes of earning a D1 scholarship instead go to a low major on a full ride.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: TAMU Eagle on August 10, 2019, 03:56:03 PM
Careful.  You might be labeled a racist for saying stuff like that.

Anyone who labeled someone a racist for that is dumb.

But making fun of a name because it doesn't sound like a name we would call a white child could reasonably be perceived as a racist action. Not an egregious one but I could understand someone taking offense.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: MU82 on August 10, 2019, 04:10:46 PM
Careful.  You might be labeled a racist for saying stuff like that.

Anyone who labeled someone a racist for that is dumb.

But making fun of a name because it doesn't sound like a name we would call a white child could reasonably be perceived as a racist action. Not an egregious one but I could understand someone taking offense.

I mostly get a kick out of the southern names I hear when I umpire. Lots of last names as first names, because there's a lot of Old South Money on these teams, and I guess that's pretty common.

I thought it was funny that a basketball player has a name that's practically "traveling." I certainly wasn't trying to offend, and I hope I didn't offend anybody.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on August 10, 2019, 04:16:10 PM
I honestly don't think it's drying up that much. I think we have had an exaggerated view of the JUCO pool because Buzz was so good at finding and developing them. I only started paying attention to this stuff since the Buzz years so my view is limited. Maybe it used to be there was a wealth of JUCO high major talent but this decade there really hasn't been. If I had to guess, its because now that there is 353 D1 schools players who used to go the juco route in hopes of earning a D1 scholarship instead go to a low major on a full ride.

Huggins, Knight, Al, Kansas, Buzz, Baylor always seemed to pull gems out of JUCO as starters. Maybe they were just stocking up their talent there.  Crean would go there occasionally but always on flyers when he missed on recruits.  Now it seems the JUCO talent is about roster depth, at least lately. The 353 may play a role but I would think the non-qualifying issue would still be present to a large degree.

It will be interesting to see what Buzz pulls in from Texas JUCOs.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Herman Cain on August 10, 2019, 06:17:51 PM
Huggins, Knight, Al, Kansas, Buzz, Baylor always seemed to pull gems out of JUCO as starters. Maybe they were just stocking up their talent there.  Crean would go there occasionally but always on flyers when he missed on recruits.  Now it seems the JUCO talent is about roster depth, at least lately. The 353 may play a role but I would think the non-qualifying issue would still be present to a large degree.

It will be interesting to see what Buzz pulls in from Texas JUCOs.
Buzz got a commitment from an unathletic type the other day. So even old dogs can be taught new tricks.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: forgetful on August 10, 2019, 07:39:26 PM
Buzz got a commitment from an unathletic type the other day. So even old dogs can be taught new tricks.

They guy you keep referring to in that regards is known for his athleticism.
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: warriorchick on August 10, 2019, 08:40:32 PM
I mostly get a kick out of the southern names I hear when I umpire. Lots of last names as first names, because there's a lot of Old South Money on these teams, and I guess that's pretty common.

.

Yep.  Just ask my Uncle Schuler and my Uncle Hilton.

When I had a job at Opryland as a teenager, I had a co-worker whose first name was Watt.  It was like living in an Abbott and Costello skit.

And I certainly don't think it is racist, but I remember a few years ago that my "cool names poll" inspired  a thread on an opponent fansite about how racist it allegedly was.

"What's your name?"
"Watt."
"I said, 'WHAT'S YOUR NAME?'"
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Herman Cain on August 10, 2019, 08:46:19 PM
Yep.  Just ask my Uncle Schuler and my Uncle Hilton.

When I had a job at Opryland as a teenager, I had a co-worker whose first name was Watt.  It was like living in an Abbott and Costello skit.

And I certainly don't think it is racist, but I remember a few years ago that my "cool names poll" inspired  a thread on an opponent fansite about how racist it allegedly was.

"What's your name?"
"Watt."
"I said, 'WHAT'S YOUR NAME?'"
I was a big fan of the cool names poll
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: Jon on August 10, 2019, 09:47:24 PM
All of the NESCAC schools are elite academically and it’s a great basketball conference too. I play with a number of guys who play(ed) NESCAC ball. If this kids scoring over 20ppg he’s pretty legit

My oldest played lacrosse at Middlebury. The NESCAC schools have tremendous athletic programs which, I feel, exemplify the ideal of student-athlete.

In addition to lacrosse he was on the Middlebury crew team (fall season) which accommodates anyone who wishes to participate. The NESCAC head regattas are special events.

The NESCAC schools do not offer scholarships and limit participation to in-season.   
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: LloydsLegs on August 11, 2019, 03:35:26 PM
Yep.  Just ask my Uncle Schuler and my Uncle Hilton.

When I had a job at Opryland as a teenager, I had a co-worker whose first name was Watt.  It was like living in an Abbott and Costello skit.

And I certainly don't think it is racist, but I remember a few years ago that my "cool names poll" inspired  a thread on an opponent fansite about how racist it allegedly was.

"What's your name?"
"Watt."
"I said, 'WHAT'S YOUR NAME?'"

Little Rascals, Wheezer and Stymie “Where do you live?”  Watt Street?  “That’s what I am asking you—what street do you live on?”  Watt Street.  And so forth. 
Title: Re: D3 Transfer possibility
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 26, 2019, 09:22:28 AM
We did not land this transfer, but the New Haven register columnist had a write-up on it.  Very extremely brief Marquette mention. 

Jeff Jacobs: Let’s respect D-III college hoops and all those gifted unicorns
By Jeff Jacobs Published 9:00 pm EDT, Thursday, August 22, 2019

https://www.middletownpress.com/sports/article/Jeff-Jacobs-Let-s-respect-D-III-college-hoops-14371493.php