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Date/Time: Oct 4, 2019
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Author Topic: D3 Transfer possibility  (Read 8670 times)

TedBaxter

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2019, 07:28:06 PM »
Hey, that second team All-American for UW-Whitewater in 1985-86 could probably play D1 ball.  He did and quite well for Marquette for 3 years.
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Herman Cain

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2019, 07:46:35 PM »
Hey, that second team All-American for UW-Whitewater in 1985-86 could probably play D1 ball.  He did and quite well for Marquette for 3 years.
I have always said that if he would have stayed academically eligible, Majerus job may have been saved.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2019, 09:13:31 PM »

Oh, I know you don't understand.

NABC can help you..

https://nabc.prestosports.com/awards/all_america/division_III/1980

Or think of your guy ZFB.. who is ... transitioning, hey


So you are saying that since UWSP was transitioning from NAIA to NCAA Division 3 that the NABC considered him part of the NCAA D3 all American team?  Even though at the time he clearly played for a NAIA school?

wadesworld

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #53 on: August 08, 2019, 12:53:15 PM »
I was listening to Parrish and Norlander's podcast at work and they brought up this story.  Some of this might have been in some articles shared.  I was only half paying attention so some of the details might be wrong but they were saying basically the kid was at his D3 school and was working out over the summer at some gym where a couple former D1 players were playing and they were really impressed by him and asked him his background.  Apparently his plan was to play his junior year where he was and then try to transfer up to a low major D1 program for his senior season and these former D1 players basically told him no you need to act now you're good enough to play D1 basketball today, so they had him upload a highlight video of his sophomore season onto YouTube, got into contact with some coaches for him, had the kid send over full games from his sophomore season, and from there Notre Dame, Illinois, Creighton, and Marquette got involved.

Since he chose the Illini I can root the kid good luck.  Cool story.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 12:55:54 PM by wadesworld »

MU82

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #54 on: August 08, 2019, 12:57:22 PM »
I was listening to Parrish and Norlander's podcast at work and they brought up this story.  Some of this might have been in some articles shared.  I was only half paying attention so some of the details might be wrong but they were saying basically the kid was at his D3 school and was working out over the summer at some gym where a couple former D1 players were playing and they were really impressed by him and asked him his background.  Apparently his plan was to play his junior year where he was and then try to transfer up to a low major D1 program for his senior season and these former D1 players basically told him no you need to act now you're good enough to play D1 basketball today, so they had him upload a highlight video of his sophomore season onto YouTube, got into contact with some coaches for him, had the kid send over full games from his sophomore season, and from there Notre Dame, Illinois, Creighton, and Marquette got involved.

Since he chose the Illini I can root the kid good luck.  Cool story.

Thanks for providing this. I wish him well, too.
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brewcity77

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2019, 01:07:36 PM »
That was a good story. Too bad we didn't get a visit, but wish him the best. Sounds like a good kid that deserves the shot.

auburnmarquette

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #56 on: August 09, 2019, 10:48:48 PM »
Still miss going after jucos - that's how buzz delivered 3 straight sweet 16s. I love the.idea.of the 4 year player and at one point I noted mu had more 4 year players in the NBA at once than any other program. But with it heading toward 1000 players of the 4000 transferring every year, another 1000 finishing their eligibility every year, and then most who are truly elite going pro, I'd rather just bring in jucos who are ready to give 2 strong years to fill needs.then sit through the painful freshman growing pains. Not worth a new subject, but sounds like this kid would have been the same kind of get as the right jucos each year.
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #57 on: August 10, 2019, 12:58:52 AM »
Still miss going after jucos - that's how buzz delivered 3 straight sweet 16s. I love the.idea.of the 4 year player and at one point I noted mu had more 4 year players in the NBA at once than any other program. But with it heading toward 1000 players of the 4000 transferring every year, another 1000 finishing their eligibility every year, and then most who are truly elite going pro, I'd rather just bring in jucos who are ready to give 2 strong years to fill needs.then sit through the painful freshman growing pains. Not worth a new subject, but sounds like this kid would have been the same kind of get as the right jucos each year.

The MU admin ended those days.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2019, 01:53:45 AM »
Still miss going after jucos - that's how buzz delivered 3 straight sweet 16s. I love the.idea.of the 4 year player and at one point I noted mu had more 4 year players in the NBA at once than any other program. But with it heading toward 1000 players of the 4000 transferring every year, another 1000 finishing their eligibility every year, and then most who are truly elite going pro, I'd rather just bring in jucos who are ready to give 2 strong years to fill needs.then sit through the painful freshman growing pains. Not worth a new subject, but sounds like this kid would have been the same kind of get as the right jucos each year.

I think many MU fans have an overblown idea of how many talented jucos are out there. The vast majority of jucos end up at low majors or riding the bench for high majors. Buzz was an elite juco recruiter and got the best the NJCAA had to offer. It was an impressive talent. I did a project two years ago where I looked at all the JUCOs Wojo could have landed in his first three seasons (academics aside). In three years there was something like 12 JUCOs who legitimately could have been starters for us. A slightly larger group could have been role players. The rest wouldn't have cracked the roster.

The MU admin ended those days.

They did not. JUCOs can and still will be admitted. They just have to be able to graduate by the time their eligibility runs out. Wojo has recruited a couple of JUCOs with the admins blessing, and has even gotten visits from a couple. The reality is that we haven't landed any JUCOs because there aren't that many good enough to make the roster.
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2019, 02:47:49 AM »
They did not. JUCOs can and still will be admitted. They just have to be able to graduate by the time their eligibility runs out. Wojo has recruited a couple of JUCOs with the admins blessing, and has even gotten visits from a couple. The reality is that we haven't landed any JUCOs because there aren't that many good enough to make the roster.
When one shows up on a Wojo roster, please let us know. Wojo is the only coach in 50+years without a JUCO EVER on any of his rosters. To claim otherwise is disingenuous. Facts don’t lie.

jsglow

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #60 on: August 10, 2019, 07:41:14 AM »
When one shows up on a Wojo roster, please let us know. Wojo is the only coach in 50+years without a JUCO EVER on any of his rosters. To claim otherwise is disingenuous. Facts don’t lie.

You just completely moved the goalposts.  TAMU is correct regarding the policy.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2019, 08:08:47 AM »
My recollection is that Wojo has looked at Jucos and even hosted one from Milwaukee who ended up in Wichita. He likely thinks it just isn’t worth the effort.

Also TAMU is right. Our experience leads us to believe they are more impactful than they really are.

brewcity77

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2019, 09:31:05 AM »
My recollection is that Wojo has looked at Jucos and even hosted one from Milwaukee who ended up in Wichita. He likely thinks it just isn’t worth the effort.

Also TAMU is right. Our experience leads us to believe they are more impactful than they really are.

Wojo has hosted and offered a handful, but nothing like Buzz. I think if the right one that meets credentials wanted to commit, he would take them, but so far the stars haven't aligned. I also think connections matter. For Buzz, that was his world. Those were the people he knew, and even the ones he didn't knew he was the guy to reach out to if they thought they had a high-major talent.

Wojo has shown some interest, but that isn't where his roots or connections are, and not aggressively pursuing them in the past means he won't be the first person JUCO coaches call when they are looking for a good fit. It doesn't mean it can't happen, just that it will be less likely.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2019, 02:24:31 PM »
You just completely moved the goalposts.  TAMU is correct regarding the policy.

Yes I was being a bit too literal with my comment so I apologize. Here is my point: There has been plenty of JUCO high talent available. Capel is even fishing in these waters. MU would theoretically take one if they somehow were academically perfect.  But, the reason these kids go to JUCO is they are academically a risk.  So, ipso facto.

This is a pool Wojo won’t go unless there is a perfect storm.

https://www.jucorecruiting.com/2019-juco-basketball-top-100-rankings

wadesworld

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2019, 02:43:45 PM »
Yes I was being a bit too literal with my comment so I apologize. Here is my point: There has been plenty of JUCO high talent available. Capel is even fishing in these waters. MU would theoretically take one if they somehow were academically perfect.  But, the reason these kids go to JUCO is they are academically a risk.  So, ipso facto.

This is a pool Wojo won’t go unless there is a perfect storm.

https://www.jucorecruiting.com/2019-juco-basketball-top-100-rankings

You simply are wrong on the subject. Wojo can and has recruited JUCOs. There aren’t a ton that are high major D1 contributors and those that are are in high demand. Buzz had connections in the JUCO community and Wojo does not.

Do you think Wojo is just jerking around the JUCO players he’s brought to campus? He isn’t allowed to bring in JUCOs, according to you, yet he’s trying to get kids to come make an official visit?

This is like claiming that Wojo is not allowed to recruit the state of Texas.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2019, 03:02:33 PM »
Here is my point: There has been plenty of JUCO high talent available.

https://www.jucorecruiting.com/2019-juco-basketball-top-100-rankings

Has there? Because I looked a few years ago and there's usually only about 4 or 5 a year who would have been starters for Marquette. A slightly larger group could have been role players.

Look at the list you linked. The #2 JUCO is going to Missouri State. #3 and #8 are going to a Nebraska team that's projected to be sub 100. #6 and #16 Ole Miss? #7 SMU? #12 SLU? #17 North Texas? #19 New Mexico State? #24 Buffalo? #25 Eastern Illinois? #27 Coastal Carolina? Most of the best JUCOs aren't heading to elite teams. Those that do (#1 to Oregon, #4 to LSU, #9 to Virginia), most are not going to be starters but depth off the bench.

Look at that same site's list from last season:
#1 Wendell Mitchell was a star for a TAMU team that finished near last in the SEC
#2 Jordan Brangers went to Western Kentucky and was ruled ineligible
#3 Yuat Alok averaged 3.3 points a game for TCU before transferring to a low major
#4 Derek Funderburke was first guy off the bench for a solid NC State team
#5 Brian Halums averaged 1.8 points a game for Ole Miss
#6 Mohamed Thiam averaged 4.5 points a game for New Mexico State
#7 Shaq Carter averaged 4.5 points a game for Rutgers
#8 Trevelin Queen avereged 15 minutes a game for New Mexico State
#9 Charles Jones Jr averaged 2.6 points a game for a sub-100 Utah team
#10 Ivan Aurrecoechea averaged 17 minutes a game for New Mexico State
#11 Devante Bandoo was first guy off the bench for a solid Baylor team
#12 Andres Feliz was the fifth starter for a meh Illinois team
#13 Kur Kuath averaged 1.0 points for Oklahoma
#14 Roderick Williams averaged 17 minutes a game for Boise State
#15 Isaiah Tisdale started for East Tennessee State
#16 Antun Mariceveic averaged 3.5 points a game for South Florida
#17 Marlon Taylor started for LSU
#18 JJ Rhymes redshirtted for Grand Canyon
#19 Zach Naylor average 0.7 points for Ole Miss
#20 Tremell Murphy started for Drake
#21 Jethro Tshisumpa Mbiya redshirtted at Mississippi State
#22 Nick Marshall never committed anywhere
#23 Shane Gatling started at Colorado
#24 Ra'Shawn Langston was first guy off the bench at Louisiana Tech
#25 Darius Allen averaged 2.0 points a game at Baylor

So where is the top JUCO talent? I count one player who started on a team as good as or better than Marquette (#17 Marlon Taylor). I count one other guy who probably was good enough to start for Marquette (#1 Wendell Mitchell). I count four others who probably could have gotten significant minutes at MU last season (#4 Derek Funderburk, #11 Devante Bandoo, #12 Andres Feliz, #23 Shane Gatling).

Rankings aren't everything, I'm sure there were some gems ranked below the top 25. But if only 2 out of the top 25 could start for Marquette and only 4 of the remaining 23 were even likely to get minutes....I think the JUCO pool may be a little more shallow than you are advertising.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 03:06:47 PM by TAMU Eagle »
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MU82

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2019, 03:06:13 PM »
Has there? Because I looked a few years ago and there's usually only about 4 or 5 a year who would have been starters for Marquette. A slightly larger group could have been role players.

Look at the list you linked. The #2 JUCO is going to Missouri State. #3 and #8 are going to a Nebraska team that's projected to be sub 100. #6 and #16 Ole Miss? #7 SMU? #12 SLU? #17 North Texas? #19 New Mexico State? #24 Buffalo? #25 Eastern Illinois? #27 Coastal Carolina? Most of the best JUCOs aren't heading to elite teams. Those that do (#1 to Oregon, #4 to LSU, #9 to Virginia), most are not going to be starters but depth off the bench.

Look at that same site's list from last season:
#1 Wendell Mitchell was a star for a TAMU team that finished near last in the SEC
#2 Jordan Brangers went to Western Kentucky and was ruled ineligible
#3 Yuat Alok averaged 3.3 points a game for TCU before transferring to a low major
#4 Derek Funderburke was first guy off the bench for a solid NC State team
#5 Brian Halums averaged 1.8 points a game for Ole Miss
#6 Mohamed Thiam averaged 4.5 points a game for New Mexico State
#7 Shaq Carter averaged 4.5 points a game for Rutgers
#8 Trevelin Queen avereged 15 minutes a game for New Mexico State
#9 Charles Jones Jr averaged 2.6 points a game for a sub-100 Utah team
#10 Ivan Aurrecoechea averaged 17 minutes a game for New Mexico State
#11 Devante Bandoo was first guy off the bench for a solid Baylor team
#12 Andres Feliz was the fifth starter for a meh Illinois team
#13 Kur Kuath averaged 1.0 points for Oklahoma
#14 Roderick Williams averaged 17 minutes a game for Boise State
#15 Isaiah Tisdale started for East Tennessee State
#16 Antun Mariceveic averaged 3.5 points a game for South Florida
#17 Marlon Taylor started for LSU
#18 JJ Rhymes redshirtted for Grand Canyon
#19 Zach Naylor average 0.7 points for Ole Miss
#20 Tremell Murphy started for Drake
#21 Jethro Tshisumpa Mbiya redshirtted at Mississippi State
#22 Nick Marshall never committed anywhere
#23 Shane Gatling started at Colorado
#24 Ra'Shawn Langston was first guy off the bench at Louisiana Tech
#25 Darius Allen averaged 2.0 points a game at Baylor

So where is the top JUCO talent? I count one player who started on a team as good as or better than Marquette (#17 Marlon Taylor). I count one other guy who probably was good enough to start for Marquette (#1 Wendell Mitchell). I count four others who probably could have gotten significant minutes at MU last season (#4 Derek Funderburk, #11 Devante Bandoo, #12 Andres Feliz, #23 Shane Gatling).

Rankings aren't everything, I'm sure there were some gems ranked below the top 25. But if only 2 out of the top 25 could start for Marquette and only 4 of the remaining 23 were even likely to get minutes....I think the JUCO pool may be a little more shallow than advertised.

On the positive side, lots of fun names on that list.

My favorite is Trevelin Queen.

I mean, how good can a basketball player be if his first name practically is a rule violation?!?!
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #67 on: August 10, 2019, 03:11:42 PM »
You simply are wrong on the subject. Wojo can and has recruited JUCOs. There aren’t a ton that are high major D1 contributors and those that are are in high demand. Buzz had connections in the JUCO community and Wojo does not.

Do you think Wojo is just jerking around the JUCO players he’s brought to campus? He isn’t allowed to bring in JUCOs, according to you, yet he’s trying to get kids to come make an official visit?

This is like claiming that Wojo is not allowed to recruit the state of Texas.

On all of MU sports rosters, there are zero JUCOs. Maybe a coincidence?  In the recruiting thread I have seen zero news about JUCOs.  Of course, that thread is mucked up and it could be in there.  I will look deeper for all this JUCO activity you reference.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #68 on: August 10, 2019, 03:42:40 PM »
Has there? Because I looked a few years ago and there's usually only about 4 or 5 a year who would have been starters for Marquette. A slightly larger group could have been role players.

Look at the list you linked. The #2 JUCO is going to Missouri State. #3 and #8 are going to a Nebraska team that's projected to be sub 100. #6 and #16 Ole Miss? #7 SMU? #12 SLU? #17 North Texas? #19 New Mexico State? #24 Buffalo? #25 Eastern Illinois? #27 Coastal Carolina? Most of the best JUCOs aren't heading to elite teams. Those that do (#1 to Oregon, #4 to LSU, #9 to Virginia), most are not going to be starters but depth off the bench.

Look at that same site's list from last season:
#1 Wendell Mitchell was a star for a TAMU team that finished near last in the SEC
#2 Jordan Brangers went to Western Kentucky and was ruled ineligible
#3 Yuat Alok averaged 3.3 points a game for TCU before transferring to a low major
#4 Derek Funderburke was first guy off the bench for a solid NC State team
#5 Brian Halums averaged 1.8 points a game for Ole Miss
#6 Mohamed Thiam averaged 4.5 points a game for New Mexico State
#7 Shaq Carter averaged 4.5 points a game for Rutgers
#8 Trevelin Queen avereged 15 minutes a game for New Mexico State
#9 Charles Jones Jr averaged 2.6 points a game for a sub-100 Utah team
#10 Ivan Aurrecoechea averaged 17 minutes a game for New Mexico State
#11 Devante Bandoo was first guy off the bench for a solid Baylor team
#12 Andres Feliz was the fifth starter for a meh Illinois team
#13 Kur Kuath averaged 1.0 points for Oklahoma
#14 Roderick Williams averaged 17 minutes a game for Boise State
#15 Isaiah Tisdale started for East Tennessee State
#16 Antun Mariceveic averaged 3.5 points a game for South Florida
#17 Marlon Taylor started for LSU
#18 JJ Rhymes redshirtted for Grand Canyon
#19 Zach Naylor average 0.7 points for Ole Miss
#20 Tremell Murphy started for Drake
#21 Jethro Tshisumpa Mbiya redshirtted at Mississippi State
#22 Nick Marshall never committed anywhere
#23 Shane Gatling started at Colorado
#24 Ra'Shawn Langston was first guy off the bench at Louisiana Tech
#25 Darius Allen averaged 2.0 points a game at Baylor

So where is the top JUCO talent? I count one player who started on a team as good as or better than Marquette (#17 Marlon Taylor). I count one other guy who probably was good enough to start for Marquette (#1 Wendell Mitchell). I count four others who probably could have gotten significant minutes at MU last season (#4 Derek Funderburk, #11 Devante Bandoo, #12 Andres Feliz, #23 Shane Gatling).

Rankings aren't everything, I'm sure there were some gems ranked below the top 25. But if only 2 out of the top 25 could start for Marquette and only 4 of the remaining 23 were even likely to get minutes....I think the JUCO pool may be a little more shallow than you are advertising.

Thanks for the content and great response. I quickly counted 24 P6 recruits on that list. That seems like a lot to me.

Besides the MU debate which I beat to death, why do you think that the JUCO pool is drying up?

warriorchick

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #69 on: August 10, 2019, 03:48:02 PM »
On the positive side, lots of fun names on that list.

My favorite is Trevelin Queen.

I mean, how good can a basketball player be if his first name practically is a rule violation?!?!

Careful.  You might be labeled a racist for saying stuff like that.
Have some patience, FFS.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #70 on: August 10, 2019, 03:53:18 PM »
Thanks for the content and great response. I quickly counted 24 P6 recruits on that list. That seems like a lot to me.

Besides the MU debate which I beat to death, why do you think that the JUCO pool is drying up?

I honestly don't think it's drying up that much. I think we have had an exaggerated view of the JUCO pool because Buzz was so good at finding and developing them. I only started paying attention to this stuff since the Buzz years so my view is limited. Maybe it used to be there was a wealth of JUCO high major talent but this decade there really hasn't been. If I had to guess, its because now that there is 353 D1 schools players who used to go the juco route in hopes of earning a D1 scholarship instead go to a low major on a full ride.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

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TAMU Eagle

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #71 on: August 10, 2019, 03:56:03 PM »
Careful.  You might be labeled a racist for saying stuff like that.

Anyone who labeled someone a racist for that is dumb.

But making fun of a name because it doesn't sound like a name we would call a white child could reasonably be perceived as a racist action. Not an egregious one but I could understand someone taking offense.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
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And the wisdom to know the difference.

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MU82

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #72 on: August 10, 2019, 04:10:46 PM »
Careful.  You might be labeled a racist for saying stuff like that.

Anyone who labeled someone a racist for that is dumb.

But making fun of a name because it doesn't sound like a name we would call a white child could reasonably be perceived as a racist action. Not an egregious one but I could understand someone taking offense.

I mostly get a kick out of the southern names I hear when I umpire. Lots of last names as first names, because there's a lot of Old South Money on these teams, and I guess that's pretty common.

I thought it was funny that a basketball player has a name that's practically "traveling." I certainly wasn't trying to offend, and I hope I didn't offend anybody.
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #73 on: August 10, 2019, 04:16:10 PM »
I honestly don't think it's drying up that much. I think we have had an exaggerated view of the JUCO pool because Buzz was so good at finding and developing them. I only started paying attention to this stuff since the Buzz years so my view is limited. Maybe it used to be there was a wealth of JUCO high major talent but this decade there really hasn't been. If I had to guess, its because now that there is 353 D1 schools players who used to go the juco route in hopes of earning a D1 scholarship instead go to a low major on a full ride.

Huggins, Knight, Al, Kansas, Buzz, Baylor always seemed to pull gems out of JUCO as starters. Maybe they were just stocking up their talent there.  Crean would go there occasionally but always on flyers when he missed on recruits.  Now it seems the JUCO talent is about roster depth, at least lately. The 353 may play a role but I would think the non-qualifying issue would still be present to a large degree.

It will be interesting to see what Buzz pulls in from Texas JUCOs.

Herman Cain

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Re: D3 Transfer possibility
« Reply #74 on: August 10, 2019, 06:17:51 PM »
Huggins, Knight, Al, Kansas, Buzz, Baylor always seemed to pull gems out of JUCO as starters. Maybe they were just stocking up their talent there.  Crean would go there occasionally but always on flyers when he missed on recruits.  Now it seems the JUCO talent is about roster depth, at least lately. The 353 may play a role but I would think the non-qualifying issue would still be present to a large degree.

It will be interesting to see what Buzz pulls in from Texas JUCOs.
Buzz got a commitment from an unathletic type the other day. So even old dogs can be taught new tricks.