Get your popcorn. This one should be a rout.
Was surprised to see how many huge USWNT players are out with injury and they still nearly have a starting eleven on the bench. Will they score ten?
Looking like no.
Vietnam defending very well.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 21, 2023, 08:36:09 PM
Looking like no.
Yeah, Vietnam is parking the bus and playing incredibly recklessly. Hope US comes out without injury.
We've been sloppy, but the lead is deserved.
Quote from: Its DJOver on July 21, 2023, 09:02:30 PM
We've been sloppy, but the lead is deserved.
Incredibly. Should be 5-0 at the very least.
The under was always the play
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 21, 2023, 09:41:04 PM
The under was always the play
We'd all be much richer if we could all make our bets 3/4 through events.
Quote from: withoutbias on July 21, 2023, 09:45:02 PM
We'd all be much richer if we could all make our bets 3/4 through events.
It's true but I actually committed to the under this time 😂
My favorite unsung hero from 2019 has been noticeably bad tonight.
I know Lavelle just came off injury but she needs to be playing the majority of the minutes if the US want to win again
Yes, the offense has looked better since she entered the game.
The Badgers suck.
I bet the under. They still have to figure some stuff out.
A bit of a brag, but I am friends with the captain's mom.
Vietnam was packing it in on defense. They didn't want to be embarrassed so they gave up on scoring so they wouldn't be blown out (although 3-0 is pretty dominant).
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on July 21, 2023, 08:00:34 PM
Was surprised to see how many huge USWNT players are
Wat
Denmark kept applying pressure and finally broke through in the 90th minute.
Better play better tonight.
The Dutch are far more attacking than Vietnam, and they are strong defensively. USA has had some opportunities, Rodman and Morgan look "off" to me. Smith looks like she can get on the ball and make things happen again tonight.
The US isn't bad by any means, the rest of the world has just finally caught up while the IS has been stagnant.
Also, Rose Lavelle needs to be on the field.
My favorite player in 2019 was Dunn. She is not playing well so far. In ether game.
Quote from: tower912 on July 26, 2023, 08:39:30 PM
My favorite player in 2019 was Dunn. She is not playing well so far. In ether game.
Definitely not sharp to start
It seems like we're getting outplayed to this point.
DiMelo putting in work
The men would've scored at least a couple goals against this Dutch team
USA ran things for the first 15 minutes, but ever since the against the run of play goal, it's felt like the Dutch were stronger. With the wind, they need to keep the ball on the floor. That's how the Dutch got their goal and it seems like a number of attacks break down because of passes off the ground that end up carrying too far.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 26, 2023, 08:59:00 PM
USA ran things for the first 15 minutes, but ever since the against the run of play goal, it's felt like the Dutch were stronger. With the wind, they need to keep the ball on the floor. That's how the Dutch got their goal and it seems like a number of attacks break down because of passes off the ground that end up carrying too far.
Our defense looked like crap on that goal imo.
Yes. A defender fell down and they never fully recovered. A poor clearance and...
Second best to everything. I don't know the roster well but they need to change things up in the midfield. Dimelo was atrocious and they need much more support deeper to try and hold the ball a bit more.
Would have preferred DeMelo to stay on, maybe play Lavelle a little higher, take off Morgan/Rodman, move Smith central.
Quote from: tower912 on July 26, 2023, 09:06:38 PM
Yes. A defender fell down and they never fully recovered. A poor clearance and...
We seem out of sorts. I don't know much about soccer but our spacing and using the entire field looks terrible.
Does our coach know what he's doing? The half-time crew intimated that he doesn't.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 26, 2023, 09:14:21 PM
We seem out of sorts. I don't know much about soccer but our spacing and using the entire field ooks terrible.
We've been a step slow and chasing a lot of the game
Netherlands is playing 8 behind the ball. Gonna have to score from a set piece.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 26, 2023, 09:17:30 PM
Netherlands is playing 8 behind the ball. Gonna have to score from a set piece.
Have Smith or Lavelle get on the ball, drive, draw a foul, put some pressure on the defense
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 26, 2023, 09:17:30 PM
Netherlands is playing 8 behind the ball. Gonna have to score from a set piece.
We're generally attacking in one spot and it's covered. It's like a basketball team trying to dunk on a shot-blocker. WTF?
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 26, 2023, 09:17:30 PM
Netherlands is playing 8 behind the ball. Gonna have to score from a set piece.
As if on cue, that's well done
GOAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LFG!!!!
Horan may have willed that one.
What a corner by Rose.
Don't make Lindsey angry, you won't like her when she's angry.
Bonus, her mom, Linda, got on TV!
The Dutch play like the Pistons from the 80s
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 26, 2023, 09:17:30 PM
Netherlands is playing 8 behind the ball. Gonna have to score from a set piece.
Nice call!
Much better half for the USA.
Bizarre we only used one sub in the second half when we had absolutely nothing going for large portions of the half. Poor performance
Lavelle wants to, and understands how to, create for others. The entire offense flows better with her in the middle. I am not seeing it yet from Smith and Rodman.
Dunn played better in the second half.
Probably the fair result, neither team looked great, both understood that they're likely to go through regardless. Don't understand why we're so narrow going forward, acres of space on the wings.
Quote from: tower912 on July 26, 2023, 10:00:44 PM
Lavelle wants to, and understands how to, create for others. The entire offense flows better with her in the middle. I am not seeing it yet from Smith and Rodman.
Dunn played better in the second half.
Why didn't she play in the 1H?
Quote from: Its DJOver on July 26, 2023, 10:01:21 PM
Probably the fair result, neither team looked great, both understood that they're likely to go through regardless. Don't understand why we're so narrow going forward, acres of space on the wings.
Fullbacks rarely got forward. It didn't help we couldn't possess the ball in the midfield at all.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 26, 2023, 10:02:40 PM
Why didn't she play in the 1H?
Coming back from injury, on minutes limit.
Quote from: panda on July 26, 2023, 10:03:42 PM
Fullbacks rarely got forward. It didn't help we couldn't possess the ball in the midfield at all.
Overlapping fullbacks or not, Rodman and Smith were way too narrow. They both clearly have a ton of potential but they're both still so raw I'm not sure I would have both in the first XI.
I'm no expert but it appeared like the USA flipped the switch in the 2H.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 26, 2023, 10:11:31 PM
I'm no expert but it appeared like the USA flipped the switch in the 2H.
Lavelle is such a difference maker. She's fearless, strong on the ball and is just such a good playmaker.
Quote from: pbiflyer on July 26, 2023, 09:32:52 PM
Nice call!
Even a blind squirrel, eh? Game opened up once the US scored but the Dutch were completely content parking the bus until then.
Quote from: Its DJOver on July 26, 2023, 10:07:43 PM
Coming back from injury, on minutes limit.
Overlapping fullbacks or not, Rodman and Smith were way too narrow. They both clearly have a ton of potential but they're both still so raw I'm not sure I would have both in the first XI.
Agree
Talented scorers. Not yet in sync and making each other better. Lavelle in the middle makes the offense better.
Quote from: panda on July 26, 2023, 09:59:13 PM
Bizarre we only used one sub in the second half when we had absolutely nothing going for large portions of the half. Poor performance
"This is an absolute failure from the coach so far...if you only make one sub in 90 minutes, you get fired from a Jersey Mike's."
The @SoccerCooligans stop by with a #WorldCup update and a few coaching pointers for Vlatko Andonovski.🇺🇸
Quote from: pbiflyer on July 27, 2023, 12:02:20 PM
"This is an absolute failure from the coach so far...if you only make one sub in 90 minutes, you get fired from a Jersey Mike's."
The @SoccerCooligans stop by with a #WorldCup update and a few coaching pointers for Vlatko Andonovski.🇺🇸
Lol that's hilarious.
But simply a bizarre decision in a tournament where they'll be playing again in a few days. The Dutch completely ran out of gas towards the end with their Uber aggressive pressing killing them. A couple of fresh legs coming on would've completely changed the game in our favor.
Quote from: panda on July 27, 2023, 02:54:19 PM
Lol that's hilarious.
But simply a bizarre decision in a tournament where they'll be playing again in a few days. The Dutch completely ran out of gas towards the end with their Uber aggressive pressing killing them. A couple of fresh legs coming on would've completely changed the game in our favor.
They played Wednesday and don't play again until next Tuesday. They'll be okay.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 27, 2023, 02:59:21 PM
They played Wednesday and don't play again until next Tuesday. They'll be okay.
The game yesterday was Thursday and then they play Tuesday. Four days in between is a quick turnaround. Knockouts are right around the corner. Odd decision from the coach.
Quote from: panda on July 27, 2023, 03:44:34 PM
The game yesterday was Thursday and then they play Tuesday. Four days in between is a quick turnaround. Knockouts are right around the corner. Odd decision from the coach.
The TV analysts agreed with you. Hopefully it doesn't bite them in the ass
China a player down against Haiti.
The U.S. didn't have great spacing and shape vs 3-5-2. Too much space between the back line and attacking third, especially when Sullivan was caught up on the goal.
Then they moved Dunn and Horan to help in the middle which allowed Lavelle to play high in the middle. Getting on the board also helped.
Some adjustment possibilities include getting Williams some playing time,(likely to happen) and perhaps movingk the back line and Ertz up into the defensive midfield. (less likely to happen)
Quote from: shoothoops on July 28, 2023, 08:33:07 AM
The U.S. didn't have great spacing and shape vs 3-5-2. Too much space between the back line and attacking third, especially when Sullivan was caught up on the goal.
Then they moved Dunn and Horan to help in the middle which allowed Lavelle to play high in the middle. Getting on the board also helped.
Some adjustment possibilities include getting Williams some playing time,(likely to happen) and perhaps movingk the back line and Ertz up into the defensive midfield. (less likely to happen)
Are there any concerns about Portugal?
'What, me worry?'
Obscure musical reference for the music snobs.
Quote from: tower912 on July 28, 2023, 10:09:10 AM
'What, me worry?'
Obscure musical reference for the music snobs.
Portugal. The Man.
But you could have bridged that reference into a Mad magazine reference. You are awarded half points today, tower.
Dammit.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 28, 2023, 09:20:45 AM
Are there any concerns about Portugal?
Every team is a concern and to be respected. I expect Portugal to play 4 in back instead of 3, to clog the central midfield, defend and counter of which they are sneaky capable, Pinto through Silva. I don't think they will aggressively try to play through like against a different opponent. They will also be physical. I think as long as the U.S. matches that they will be okay.
Announcers in the Jamaica Panama game said that 20% of the participants in the women's world cup played college in the US.
Quote from: tower912 on July 29, 2023, 09:16:42 AM
Announcers in the Jamaica Panama game said that 20% of the participants in the women's world cup played college in the US.
Title IX is the big reason.
That has been the pathway for Women's Soccer. Canada actually has more U.S. College Soccer Players than the U.S. Jamaica and the Philippines are next.
236 International players from 35 countries played across the NCAA Championships last year.
And, several U.S. college players that are very good players, but who would not make the U.S. team, have been playing for other countries too.
As professional opportunities increase, NWSL, the new Super League, abroad, etc...more Women players will skip college. Riley Jackson 2024 Duke commit did just that yesterday. Alyssa Thompson also did that as a Stanford commit. Both signed with NWSL teams. Horan went to Europe instead of UNC. It isn't the same numbers as U.S. Men, which is roughly 30 or so top national prep level players annually skipping college, with more playing less than 4 years. But it's a growing thing in the Women's game. And a few are starting to do so overseas too. (Ella Sanchez) But for many the resources and infrastructure of the Women's college game is better than the alternatives.
Another mini trend are a few top level players and students graduating high school in 3 years and starting their college career a year early. These are players that are used to playing up a class level throughout their club careers. Example: U19 2024 player playing with mostly 2023 teammates, skipping their Senior year of high school. This began as 2nd semester Se ior year recruits entering college a semester early. Now a few are doing it a full year early.
And now you are beginning to see American Women's professional soccer owners (Washington Spirit) buying European teams (Lyon). That will be a thing too.
College soccer is great fun. Preseason camps begin this Tuesday, as does official visit season for 2025 recruits. The Women's recruiting cycle is much quicker than the Men. A high percentage of 2025's will commit before the end of this year. Many will be within 4 months or so of initial contact. Men's recruiting takes much longer into the next year.
Quote from: shoothoops on July 29, 2023, 11:23:41 AM
Title IX is the big reason.
That has been the pathway for Women's Soccer. Canada actually has more U.S. College Soccer Players than the U.S. Jamaica and the Philippines are next.
236 International players from 35 countries played across the NCAA Championships last year.
And, several U.S. college players that are very good players, but who would not make the U.S. team, have been playing for other countries too.
As professional opportunities increase, NWSL, the new Super League, abroad, etc...more Women players will skip college. Riley Jackson 2024 Duke commit did just that yesterday. Alyssa Thompson also did that as a Stanford commit. Both signed with NWSL teams. Horan went to Europe instead of UNC. It isn't the same numbers as U.S. Men, which is roughly 30 or so top national prep level players annually skipping college, with more playing less than 4 years. But it's a growing thing in the Women's game. And a few are starting to do so overseas too. (Ella Sanchez) But for many the resources and infrastructure of the Women's college game is better than the alternatives.
And now you are beginning to see American Women's professional soccer owners (Washington Spirit) buying European teams (Lyon). That will be a thing too.
College soccer is great fun. Preseason camps begin this Tuesday, as does official visit season for 2025 recruits. The Women's recruiting cycle is much quicker than the Men. A high percentage of 2025's will commit before the end of this year. Many will be within 4 months or so of initial contact. Men's recruiting takes much longer into the next year.
Agreed and I'm curious to see what happens in the next 10 years. As bad as college soccer has been for development in the men's gsme, the complete opposite can be said about the women's game.
Clearly the world has caught up to what was a juggernaut USWNT. In the current Cup our coach seems to be saving talent for knockout rounds. But what a dangerous strategy that is. As a player, I'll never understand why a coach does not press 10v10 vs an inferior opponent. That's when mistakes are made and the better team capitalizes. Right now, Portugal has more safe spaces than most universities.
It sounds like we could be in some serious trouble and the coach hasn't figured out how to get the most out of our roster.
0-0 in the 80th minute with everything to play for and still no subs. This guy is giving Berhalter a run for his money on in game tactical adjustments !
Quote from: panda on August 01, 2023, 06:19:04 AM
0-0 in the 80th minute with everything to play for and still no subs. This guy is giving Berhalter a run for his money on in game tactical adjustments !
Are there assistant coaches? It seems to me they have played one good half in three full games.
Pay the women like the men, and they play like them
Stale going forward, and that's on the coach, but 1 shot on target allowed over three games is nothing short of elite. The gap has closed, but I would bet the oddsmakers still have us as healthy favorites against Sweden.
I believe Lavelle is out for the Sweden game after picking up her second yellow card. It may be even more challenging to generate offense.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 01, 2023, 07:27:59 AM
Stale going forward, and that's on the coach, but 1 shot on target allowed over three games is nothing short of elite. The gap has closed, but I would bet the oddsmakers still have us as healthy favorites against Sweden.
Maybe the gap has closed but that suggests we're as good a team as we have been in tbe past. Clearly we're not. They don't seem to be getting good opportunities to score and the coach by all accounts has been abysmal.
Quote from: MuggsyB on August 01, 2023, 07:41:29 AM
Maybe the gap has closed but that suggests we're as good a team as we have been in tbe past. Clearly we're not. They don't seem to be getting good opportunities to score and the coach by all accounts has been abysmal.
Our front line is 21, 22, and 34 respectively. Smith and Rodman will get there, but it's rare to get instant impact from players that young, and Morgan isn't the player she was. Lavelle is coming off an injury. Swanson borderline starter, injured in April. Saurbrunn was borderline captain, injured (also pushing Ertz back into CB rather than in the midfield). Cat Macario, projected starter, injured. Sam Mewis, projected starter, injured. Christen Press, borderline starter, injured. Players are being asked to play roles they never have before.
Also, look at the players that have been subbed in. 38 year old Rapinoe, 34 year old O'Hara, 18 year old Thompson. I wouldn't want any of them going the full 90, Rapinoe playing a half hour was borderline too much. Let's just pump the brakes on the complaining until we actually lose a game.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 01, 2023, 08:15:52 AM
Our front line is 21, 22, and 34 respectively. Smith and Rodman will get there, but it's rare to get instant impact from players that young, and Morgan isn't the player she was. Lavelle is coming off an injury. Swanson borderline starter, injured in April. Saurbrunn was borderline captain, injured (also pushing Ertz back into CB rather than in the midfield). Cat Macario, projected starter, injured. Sam Mewis, projected starter, injured. Christen Press, borderline starter, injured. Players are being asked to play roles they never have before.
Also, look at the players that have been subbed in. 38 year old Rapinoe, 34 year old O'Hara, 18 year old Thompson. I wouldn't want any of them going the full 90, Rapinoe playing a half hour was borderline too much. Let's just pump the brakes on the complaining until we actually lose a game.
Maybe they'll wake up in the elimination rounds but it sounds like tne road is going to be difficult.
Quote from: MuggsyB on August 01, 2023, 09:13:37 AM
Maybe they'll wake up in the elimination rounds but it sounds like tne road is going to be difficult.
It always is, as it's supposed to be. What do you remember more from 2019, the 13-0 Thailand game, or when we nearly went out in the R16 to Spain, needing 2 pens and being dominated for large portions just to squeak out a 1 goal win. Same margin of victory in the Quarters and Semi's too. There's a reason that no one's ever won 3 in a row, no one has any margin for error.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 01, 2023, 08:15:52 AM
Our front line is 21, 22, and 34 respectively. Smith and Rodman will get there, but it's rare to get instant impact from players that young, and Morgan isn't the player she was. Lavelle is coming off an injury. Swanson borderline starter, injured in April. Saurbrunn was borderline captain, injured (also pushing Ertz back into CB rather than in the midfield). Cat Macario, projected starter, injured. Sam Mewis, projected starter, injured. Christen Press, borderline starter, injured. Players are being asked to play roles they never have before.
Also, look at the players that have been subbed in. 38 year old Rapinoe, 34 year old O'Hara, 18 year old Thompson. I wouldn't want any of them going the full 90, Rapinoe playing a half hour was borderline too much. Let's just pump the brakes on the complaining until we actually lose a game.
I's agree with much of this. No need to say "borderline" for Swanson or Sauerbrunn.
There are other tactical opportunities with the current group which includes moving Ertz and Dunn to better suited positions, inserting Cook, etc...at least they played Williams this game, etc...
Carli Lloyd apparently unloaded on the team.
Quote from: MuggsyB on August 01, 2023, 06:19:01 PM
Carli Lloyd apparently unloaded on the team.
You wouldm't be surprised to know that many former great Men's and Women's athletes, aren't great analysts.
Let me know when she says something constructive and productive about tactics and strategy.
Lloyd didn't like smiling, yes smiling after a game. She said the team was too focused on their bramd and endorsements, yet I don't recall her ever turning down the stardom and endorsements the team in part made for her.
Llyod was the only player who refused to kneel to protest racism at the Tokyo Olympics. She doesn't like the culture of the team because her politics are different from many on the team.
This is the same person who ran sprints in front of media and cameras after being eliminated from the Olympics. Look at me. It wasn't my.fault.
This is the same Carli Lloyd that did a book tour during the Houston Dash playoffs of 2016.
"I have every sponsor knocking on the door, every appearance opportunity — how can I not take advantage of that?" she told The Athletic upon reflection in 2021. "If I look back now, and I decided to turn down all of those things, I would not be in a position right now to have a future, to have savings."
Her disdain for the media was well known, and of course she takes a job in media.
If only the team tried as hard as her, yep that's it. Great player and maybe she will say something productive in the media some day too. And no don't get me started on Lalas.
I'm all for constructive criticism with solutions..let me know when she has any and I'll take a look.
Oh the horror:
https://twitter.com/NWSL/status/1686483025943543808?t=782OXp8WeX78fhe4QAJ5fA&s=19
Quote from: shoothoops on August 01, 2023, 07:32:58 PM
You wouldm't be surprised to know that many former great Men's and Women's athletes, aren't great analysts.
Let me know when she says something constructive and productive about tactics and strategy.
Lloyd didn't like smiling, yes smiling after a game. She said the team was too focused on their bramd and endorsements, yet I don't recall her ever turning down the stardom and endorsements the team in part made for her.
Llyod was the only player who refused to kneel to protest racism at the Tokyo Olympics. She doesn't like the culture of the team because her politics are different from many on the team.
This is the same person who ran sprints in front of media and cameras after being eliminated from the Olympics. Look at me. It wasn't my.fault.
This is the same Carli Lloyd that did a book tour during the Houston Dash playoffs of 2016.
"I have every sponsor knocking on the door, every appearance opportunity — how can I not take advantage of that?" she told The Athletic upon reflection in 2021. "If I look back now, and I decided to turn down all of those things, I would not be in a position right now to have a future, to have savings."
Her disdain for the media was well known, and of course she takes a job in media.
If only the team tried as hard as her, yep that's it. Great player and maybe she will say something productive in the media some day too. And no don't get me started on Lalas.
I'm all for constructive criticism with solutions..let me know when she has any and I'll take a look.
Oh the horror:
https://twitter.com/NWSL/status/1686483025943543808?t=782OXp8WeX78fhe4QAJ5fA&s=19
That doesn't mean she's wrong that our team has been mediocre at best.
Quote from: MuggsyB on August 01, 2023, 08:04:09 PM
That doesn't mean she's wrong that our team has been mediocre at best.
Link.me something to direct quotes of her specific analysis. I'll take a look. So far I haven't seen any. And, I pointed out where she has been both wrong and hypocritical.
So to recap, 40th FIFA ranked Nigeria (yea I know take FIFA rankings FWTW) advances at the expense of 7th ranked Canada. 43rd ranked Jamaica advances at the expense of 8th ranked Brazil. 54th ranked South Africa advances at the expense of 16th ranked Italy, and 72nd ranked Morocco advances at the expense of 2nd ranked Germany. It's almost like anything can happen in a World Cup, and a "survive and advance" mindset is one that works.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 03, 2023, 07:13:38 AM
So to recap, 40th FIFA ranked Nigeria (yea I know take FIFA rankings FWTW) advances at the expense of 7th ranked Canada. 43rd ranked Jamaica advances at the expense of 8th ranked Brazil. 54th ranked South Africa advances at the expense of 16th ranked Italy, and 72nd ranked Morocco advances at the expense of 2nd ranked Germany. It's almost like anything can happen in a World Cup, and a "survive and advance" mindset is one that works.
Crapshoot, a'ina?
Survive and advance is fine if you're organized and are playing with direction. The US is toothless in attack, looked extremely vulnerable with possession in deep and very shaky at times in the back (thank you post).
When I think of "survive and advance" from a top quality team, I think of Real Madrid in 2022 winning champions league. They had no interest in possession and were so organized at every level. Defended exceptionally well and when they won the ball, were absolutely clinical/lethal on the counter. They ran an absolute gauntlet that year beating city (best team in Europe imo), Liverpool in the final, psg and Chelsea. I believe they were second best going into each of those matchups except Chelsea.
The uswnt are completely listless in possession. They can't do anything on the counter and can't break down a defense sitting behind the ball. Survive and advance may work, but this team is destined for an early exit with the way they've been playing.
Quote from: shoothoops on August 01, 2023, 08:32:10 PM
Link.me something to direct quotes of her specific analysis. I'll take a look. So far I haven't seen any. And, I pointed out where she has been both wrong and hypocritical.
Lloyd actually did some analysis by suggesting Smith up top.with Williams and Rodman wide to create more width. That would have met with a better response had she began with that instead of some of the other nonsense.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 03, 2023, 07:13:38 AM
So to recap, 40th FIFA ranked Nigeria (yea I know take FIFA rankings FWTW) advances at the expense of 7th ranked Canada. 43rd ranked Jamaica advances at the expense of 8th ranked Brazil. 54th ranked South Africa advances at the expense of 16th ranked Italy, and 72nd ranked Morocco advances at the expense of 2nd ranked Germany. It's almost like anything can happen in a World Cup, and a "survive and advance" mindset is one that works.
Improved play, increased depth around the world. It's great for the game.
Waldrum, Donaldson, etc...are well respected accomplished coaches and leaders too sometimes in spite of great obstacles.
Quote from: panda on August 03, 2023, 01:15:15 PM
Survive and advance is fine if you're organized and are playing with direction. The US is toothless in attack, looked extremely vulnerable with possession in deep and very shaky at times in the back (thank you post).
When I think of "survive and advance" from a top quality team, I think of Real Madrid in 2022 winning champions league. They had no interest in possession and were so organized at every level. Defended exceptionally well and when they won the ball, were absolutely clinical/lethal on the counter. They ran an absolute gauntlet that year beating city (best team in Europe imo), Liverpool in the final, psg and Chelsea. I believe they were second best going into each of those matchups except Chelsea.
The uswnt are completely listless in possession. They can't do anything on the counter and can't break down a defense sitting behind the ball. Survive and advance may work, but this team is destined for an early exit with the way they've been playing.
It's the knockouts, everyone has a "survive and advance" mentality. City, who you admit is the best team in Europe had a survive and advance/win mentality when they played inter in the final. They were "toothless in attack, and listless in possession", but they got one lucky bounce in the final third, and a few lucky bounces/saves in the defensive third. The US and Sweden have each only conceded once in the tournament. This match has 1-0 written all over it (if someone scores at all), stay organized defensively, which we've been great at despite needed the post once over 270 minutes, and capitalize on what will likely be limited chances going forward. Easier said than done, but that's the way its gotta happen.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 03, 2023, 02:39:23 PM
It's the knockouts, everyone has a "survive and advance" mentality. City, who you admit is the best team in Europe had a survive and advance/win mentality when they played inter in the final. They were "toothless in attack, and listless in possession", but they got one lucky bounce in the final third, and a few lucky bounces/saves in the defensive third. The US and Sweden have each only conceded once in the tournament. This match has 1-0 written all over it (if someone scores at all), stay organized defensively, which we've been great at despite needed the post once over 270 minutes, and capitalize on what will likely be limited chances going forward. Easier said than done, but that's the way its gotta happen.
David shots
Rato shots !
Caio shots !
Braida tackles
Klic assists
Maia under tackle
I would be careful to use man city last season as a good example of "survive and advance." Their march through Europe was probably the most dominant I can ever remember in champions league. One game is a pretty poor example to cherry pick from an entire knock out style format, especially when de bruyne was forced to leave 15 mins into the game.
It's also very convenient to completely ignore my example of Madrid two seasons ago and try and cherry pick something else to prove your point (incorrectly).
The USA has played poorly. Their coach said they've played like crap. I don't think it's by design. They have no interlink play between the midfield and front 3. They're playing way too narrow. Zero tactical adjustments. It's not some masterclass in tactics. They've just been poor.
https://twitter.com/paulcarr/status/1686283396811563008?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A
Wasteful and purposeless in possession is different than defending with purpose and clinical in posessesion.
Quote from: panda on August 03, 2023, 03:38:44 PM
I would be careful to use man city last season as a good example of "survive and advance." Their march through Europe was probably the most dominant I can ever remember in champions league. One game is a pretty poor example to cherry pick from an entire knock out style format, especially when de bruyne was forced to leave 15 mins into the game.
It's also very convenient to completely ignore my example of Madrid two seasons ago and try and cherry pick something else to prove your point (incorrectly).
The USA has played poorly. Their coach said they've played like crap. I don't think it's by design. They have no interlink play between the midfield and front 3. They're playing way too narrow. Zero tactical adjustments. It's not some masterclass in tactics. They've just been poor.
https://twitter.com/paulcarr/status/1686283396811563008?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A
Wasteful and purposeless in possession is different than defending with purpose and clinical in posessesion.
Champions league finals are a better comparison because they're the same format that the WC is. 90 minutes, then 30, then kicks. Not 90 min home/away, which is why you shouldn't cherry pick their path when they were playing in front of their home crowds, to try to (incorrectly) prove your point. Man City's last win away from the Etihad in the Champions League was against Sevilla in the group stages. Their run involved not losing the tie in the 90 minutes on the road. That strategy doesn't work in a 1 match playoff format the we're in now.
If you want to argue that the US isn't as good as '19 or '15, I would agree. I don't think the squad is as good, and I don't think the coaching is as good. I also think the rest of the world is comparatively better than they were in '19 or '15. We could lose to Sweden on Sunday and it would be far from the biggest upset of the tournament. We could still win the tournament. Neither would surprise me tbh. Previous performances have no bearing on future performances (other than Lavelle being suspended).
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 03, 2023, 04:01:02 PM
Champions league finals are a better comparison because they're the same format that the WC is. 90 minutes, then 30, then kicks. Not 90 min home/away, which is why you shouldn't cherry pick their path when they were playing in front of their home crowds, to try to (incorrectly) prove your point. Man City's last win away from the Etihad in the Champions League was against Sevilla in the group stages. Their run involved not losing the tie in the 90 minutes on the road. That strategy doesn't work in a 1 match playoff format the we're in now.
If you want to argue that the US isn't as good as '19 or '15, I would agree. I don't think the squad is as good, and I don't think the coaching is as good. I also think the rest of the world is comparatively better than they were in '19 or '15. We could lose to Sweden on Sunday and it would be far from the biggest upset of the tournament. We could still win the tournament. Neither would surprise me tbh. Previous performances have no bearing on future performances (other than Lavelle being suspended).
Buddy I was talking about Madrid's style of play during champions league two years ago. We'll use the cup final as an example. Liverpool dominated the ball, chances etc, to the untrained eye, but Madrid took their chance and sprung. So organized and purposeful without the ball. Clinical on the counter.
Such a powerful team, but capable of winning without a ton of chances. The opposite of uswnt this tournament (and the last Olympics too).
Quote from: panda on August 03, 2023, 04:16:41 PM
Buddy I was talking about Madrid's style of play during champions league two years ago. We'll use the cup final as an example. Liverpool dominated the ball, chances etc, to the untrained eye, but Madrid took their chance and sprung. So organized and purposeful without the ball. Clinical on the counter.
Such a powerful team, but capable of winning without a ton of chances. The opposite of uswnt this tournament (and the last Olympics too).
Or, you have to play like that against that Liverpool team with prime Salah and Mane. City played the same way against them. You just can't leave space in behind with wingers that pacey. Less to do with Madrid, more with Liverpool.
We're not playing great in the final third, but we've certainly been capable of winning these games. I think you might underestimate how small the margins have been.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 03, 2023, 04:22:24 PM
Or, you have to play like that against that Liverpool team with prime Salah and Mane. City played the same way against them. You just can't leave space in behind with wingers that pacey. Less to do with Madrid, more with Liverpool.
We're not playing great in the final third, but we've certainly been capable of winning these games. I think you might underestimate how small the margins have been.
And Chelsea. And psg. And city... they played on the counter in each of those legs. Hence my original point...
Quote from: panda on August 03, 2023, 04:40:00 PM
And Chelsea. And psg. And city... they played on the counter in each of those legs. Hence my original point...
So your point is that Real Madrid and the USWNT play the game differently? Revolutionary stuff.
https://footystats.org/international/united-states-womens-national-team-vs-portugal-womens-national-team-h2h-stats#
https://footystats.org/international/netherlands-womens-national-team-vs-united-states-womens-national-team-h2h-stats#4474630
https://footystats.org/international/united-states-womens-national-team-vs-vietnam-womens-national-team-h2h-stats#4474617
Advanced stats tell the tale. Healthy xG lead in every game. Not putting away enough in the final third, very predictable considering the age of our starting line expected to produce. Giving up very little on the back end, very predictable given the style of play that's been adapted. Creating chances hasn't been the problem, it's finishing them.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 03, 2023, 04:52:37 PM
So your point is that Real Madrid and the USWNT play the game differently? Revolutionary stuff.
https://footystats.org/international/united-states-womens-national-team-vs-portugal-womens-national-team-h2h-stats#
https://footystats.org/international/netherlands-womens-national-team-vs-united-states-womens-national-team-h2h-stats#4474630
https://footystats.org/international/united-states-womens-national-team-vs-vietnam-womens-national-team-h2h-stats#4474617
Advanced stats tell the tale. Healthy xG lead in every game. Not putting away enough in the final third, very predictable considering the age of our starting line expected to produce. Giving up very little on the back end, very predictable given the style of play that's been adapted. Creating chances hasn't been the problem, it's finishing them.
No my point is Madrid played with a purpose even if it didn't look pretty for long stretches. Opposed to uswnt which just looks ugly and is ugly.
You're right ! xg tells the exact tale. They play without the ball and it make it look like their opponent is in control until they make one mistake and pounce. The possession stats tell the tale. You seem eager to prove me wrong so please look up possession stats for madrids knockout games during the champions league run. I'm sure they were around 40 percent in every leg.
Quote from: panda on August 03, 2023, 05:15:08 PM
No my point is Madrid played with a purpose even if it didn't look pretty for long stretches. Opposed to uswnt which just looks ugly and is ugly.
You're right ! xg tells the exact tale. They play without the ball and it make it look like their opponent is in control until they make one mistake and pounce. The possession stats tell the tale. You seem eager to prove me wrong so please look up possession stats for madrids knockout games during the champions league run. I'm sure they were around 40 percent in every leg.
You fail to seem to understand that no two teams play exactly alike, the mens game is different from the womens, and the Champions League is vastly different than the WC. Are you trying to claim that unless someone plays exactly the same way as the 2021 Real Madrid team that they cannot use the survive and advance mentality?
You say we look ugly and ugly, but the stats suggest otherwise. Possession stats mean nothing, xG is what should be looked at. I don't care what Madrid's possession stats two years ago were, they have zero relevance. You can't say that we've been bad and ugly and also agree with the stats that suggest that we've been the better team in every game. Which is it? Are we bad like your eye test says, or good like the stats say?
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 03, 2023, 05:45:38 PM
You fail to seem to understand that no two teams play exactly alike, the mens game is different from the womens, and the Champions League is vastly different than the WC. Are you trying to claim that unless someone plays exactly the same way as the 2021 Real Madrid team that they cannot use the survive and advance mentality?
You say we look ugly and ugly, but the stats suggest otherwise. Possession stats mean nothing, xG is what should be looked at. I don't care what Madrid's possession stats two years ago were, they have zero relevance. You can't say that we've been bad and ugly and also agree with the stats that suggest that we've been the better team in every game. Which is it? Are we bad like your eye test says, or good like the stats say?
Reverse sear steak
Chinese pagoda
You fail to ackowneldge my very basic point. You said USA are doing what they need to advance. Very vague point but it's true as they advanced (by the skin of their teeth). You're alluding there is a direction to their performance (there's not it's listless).
My point is that Madrid played a less than asthetically pleasing style (like the uswnt) however were highly effective in doing so. The us are a deeply flawed team who are destined for an early exit. Saying anything otherwise is completely blind optimism.
Quote from: panda on August 03, 2023, 06:05:41 PM
Reverse sear steak
Chinese pagoda
You fail to ackowneldge my very basic point. You said USA are doing what they need to advance. Very vague point but it's true as they advanced (by the skin of their teeth). You're alluding there is a direction to their performance (there's not it's listless).
My point is that Madrid played a less than asthetically pleasing style (like the uswnt) however were highly effective in doing so. The us are a deeply flawed team who are destined for an early exit. Saying anything otherwise is completely blind optimism.
So the only actual stat you're looking at % possession?
Yes Madrid had less than %50, the same as the US. The difference is that with less possession, the US is winning xG battle, while Madrid lost it in the final, lost it cumulative over the two legs in the semi's, lost it cumulative over two legs in he quarters, and lost it over two legs in the R16. Not trying to take anything away from Real, it was a good run, but the only thing that run has in common with the 3 US games is that both teams had less than half of the ball. Why don't you just compare us to Leicester?
Quote from: panda on August 03, 2023, 06:05:41 PM
Reverse sear steak
Chinese pagoda
Are you dropping Google search histories in here?
Quote from: JWags85 on August 03, 2023, 06:15:27 PM
Are you dropping Google search histories in here?
Lol that's my man meal note page
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 03, 2023, 06:14:32 PM
So the only actual stat you're looking at % possession?
Yes Madrid had less than %50, the same as the US. The difference is that with less possession, the US is winning xG battle, while Madrid lost it in the final, lost it cumulative over the two legs in the semi's, lost it cumulative over two legs in he quarters, and lost it over two legs in the R16. Not trying to take anything away from Real, it was a good run, but the only thing that run has in common with the 3 US games is that both teams had less than half of the ball. Why don't you just compare us to Leicester?
Madrid played a less than pleasing aesthetic style successfully while uswnt play a less than pleasing aesthetic style with zero purpose.
Then why are you comparing them?
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 03, 2023, 06:44:44 PM
Then why are you comparing them?
Two teams play ugly soccer. One is successful one is not.
A women's international team playing in a World Cup and so far advancing in said World Cup compared to a men's club team winning a champions league. A very odd comparison to say the least, you put any teams, club or country, resume up against Real Madrid, the most successful team in the history of the sport, and it's gonna be a one sided conversation. Talk about trying to play with a stacked deck. Score one for you (I guess).
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 03, 2023, 06:54:20 PM
A women's international team playing in a World Cup and so far advancing in said World Cup compared to a men's club team winning a champions league. A very odd comparison to say the least, you put any teams, club or country, resume up against Real Madrid, the most successful team in the history of the sport, and it's gonna be a one sided conversation. Talk about trying to play with a stacked deck. Score one for you (I guess).
Soccer strategy is angostic to mens vs women's sport. Counter attacking is not exclusive to the men's game.
That's like saying a zone defense is exclusive to men's basketball.
Quote from: panda on August 03, 2023, 07:55:58 PM
Soccer strategy is angostic to mens vs women's sport. Counter attacking is not exclusive to the men's game.
That's like saying a zone defense is exclusive to men's basketball.
Sure, in the most basic sense, you can run a man-to-man or zone in both mens and womens bball, the same way you can line up in a 442 or 4231 in mens and womens soccer. At the highest level, very strongly disagree.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 03, 2023, 08:14:46 PM
Sure, in the most basic sense, you can run a man-to-man or zone in both mens and womens bball, the same way you can line up in a 442 or 4231 in mens and womens soccer. At the highest level, very strongly disagree.
Enjoy your evening young man. Hopefully I'm wrong re uswnt
Quote from: panda on August 03, 2023, 08:23:19 PM
Enjoy your evening young man. Hopefully I'm wrong re uswnt
Win or lose Sunday, they're not going to be as good as Madrid, so whatever happens you've sat on the fence effectively enough to pull out an I told you so, so congrats to you.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 03, 2023, 08:33:45 PM
Win or lose Sunday, they're not going to be as good as Madrid, so whatever happens you've sat on the fence effectively enough to pull out an I told you so, so congrats to you.
I'm sorry I don't follow women's soccer closely enough and can't compare the uswnt to another team with the same genitalia to make you feel more at ease with the side by side. I'll remember that moving forward
Quote from: panda on August 03, 2023, 08:48:41 PM
I'm sorry I don't follow women's soccer closely enough and can't compare the uswnt to another team with the same genitalia to make you feel more at ease with the side by side. I'll remember that moving forward
Would it not be more logical to compare the 2023 USWNT to say, the 2019 USWNT or the 2015 USWNT, or even other female national teams? Even a male national team, despite some of the flaws it presents. You must follow sports in general enough to know that club and country are vastly different. I'm merely just noting that comparing a 2023 women's national team to a 2021 men's club team is nearly as flawed as comparing it to a high school team. It's the same sport yes, but so vastly different in almost every aspect that it might as well not be.
BTW, Germany, number 3 ranked team in the world went home. Lots of upsets and upstarts in the knockout round. Survive and advance!
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 03, 2023, 09:00:33 PM
Would it not be more logical to compare the 2023 USWNT to say, the 2019 USWNT or the 2015 USWNT, or even other female national teams? Even a male national team, despite some of the flaws it presents. You must follow sports in general enough to know that club and country are vastly different. I'm merely just noting that comparing a 2023 women's national team to a 2021 men's club team is nearly as flawed as comparing it to a high school team. It's the same sport yes, but so vastly different in almost every aspect that it might as well not be.
i don't think comparing a general philosophy of play between men and women is too far fetched. But it probably is if djover wants to be correct and is on the other side of the argument
Quote from: pbiflyer on August 03, 2023, 09:28:56 PM
BTW, Germany, number 3 ranked team in the world went home. Lots of upsets and upstarts in the knockout round. Survive and advance!
I agree with this analysis.
Quote from: panda on August 03, 2023, 09:58:00 PM
i don't think comparing a general philosophy of play between men and women is too far fetched. But it probably is if djover wants to be correct and is on the other side of the argument
Go look at hangin at the Al. We compare MU players with former MU players. We compare MU teams with former MU team, and other current cbb teams. We don't compare them with the lady warriors, we don't compare them with the bucks, we don't compare them with the wnba, we don't compare them with the women's Olympic bball team. This is not a "soccer" anomaly, comparing a men's club team with a women's national team, even in the same sport, is inherently flawed.
At this point odds are probably that we won't have the first ever three peat. If that is the case, I guess you can go ahead and call me out again because you would be right. Congratulations.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 03, 2023, 10:03:44 PM
Go look at hangin at the Al. We compare MU players with former MU players. We compare MU teams with former MU team, and other current cbb teams. We don't compare them with the lady warriors, we don't compare them with the bucks, we don't compare them with the wnba, we don't compare them with the women's Olympic bball team. This is not a "soccer" anomaly, comparing a men's club team with a women's national team, even in the same sport, is inherently flawed.
At this point odds are probably that we won't have the first ever three peat. If that is the case, I guess you can go ahead and call me out again because you would be right. Congratulations.
I don't pay close attention to soccer but I get what panda is saying. It sounds like the USWNT isn't playing at a high level and just turning it on in the knockout stage is a dangerous bet.
I think comparing them to other teams in men's sports is fair. We've seen plenty of favorites sleepwalk during regular seasons or early parts of tournaments expecting them to turn it on, only to see it never materialize.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 04, 2023, 07:21:15 AM
I don't pay close attention to soccer but I get what panda is saying. It sounds like the USWNT isn't playing at a high level and just turning it on in the knockout stage is a dangerous bet.
I think comparing them to other teams in men's sports is fair. We've seen plenty of favorites sleepwalk during regular seasons or early parts of tournaments expecting them to turn it on, only to see it never materialize.
Sure, in a general sense, I would agree. Phrases like "not playing up to the best of their abilities", or "sleepwalking through the group stage", can be said about anyone. It's once you start comparing specific playing style, set up, and tactics, that the comparison loses its merit.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 04, 2023, 08:00:22 AM
Sure, in a general sense, I would agree. Phrases like "not playing up to the best of their abilities", or "sleepwalking through the group stage", can be said about anyone. It's once you start comparing specific playing style, set up, and tactics, that the comparison loses its merit.
Would you think my statement is more credible if I picked a women's team stylistically similar to Madrid ?
Quote from: panda on August 04, 2023, 01:07:33 PM
Would you think my statement is more credible if I picked a women's team stylistically similar to Madrid ?
I think regardless of the style, the differences between mens clubs soccer and womens international soccer are to large for a valid comparison to be made.
Quote from: panda on July 29, 2023, 12:32:36 PM
Agreed and I'm curious to see what happens in the next 10 years. As bad as college soccer has been for development in the men's gsme, the complete opposite can be said about the women's game.
That's just because it's the pathway for Women due to previous pack of professional opportunities. As professional opportunities and $ increase for Women, their pathway will change as well.
Roughly 30 American prospects skip college for professional ball to widely varying degrees of success. College to MLS Next Pro to MLS or International has had success the past couple of years in its new format on the Men's side.
Some top college Women's Soccer Coaches have left for NWSL and other professional opportunities. Randy Waldrum for example, won national titles at Notre Dame, had less success professionally in Houston, and has quickly built bottom dweller Pittsburgh into a top 15 program in just a few seasons. There's a little bit of everything.
Mark Krikorian left FSU after multiple national titles to run an NWSL team. (Washington) And that brings me to the next point.
There's no need to compare Champions League Men's soccer with Women when Champions League Women's soccer exists.
Back to Krikorian, he is well known for his very methodical, East West, possession style teams, in contrast to say Arkansas who has dominated the SEC in recent years with possession indifferent high pressing high octane attack. Alabama presents something a but different to both in their Final Four run last year. as did BYU in their Championship game run a few years ago.
If you want to know how Nigeria plays, just watch some recent Pitt Women's Soccer. If you want to know how Jamaica plays, just watch some Real Colorado club teams, and so on.
As for the U.S., they miss a few key players more than acknowledged, both tangibly and intangibly. They also aren't necessarily playing the most effective combination of players in the best formation. They haven't been committed to a specific style of play which is also a challenge.
It isn't an issue of turning it on or desire.
Many countries would like to be in the Final 16. We'll see how it goes.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 04, 2023, 01:16:57 PM
I think regardless of the style, the differences between mens clubs soccer and womens international soccer are to large for a valid comparison to be made.
I didn't think playing an organized, counter attacking style is exclusive to only the men's game but it is a very convenient way of creating an argument to try and prove a point.
I know nothing about soccer but it seems to me there are several issues at play. I thought they had a very strong 2nd half vs The Netherlands so maybe they can turn it on vs the Swedes.
Quote from: panda on August 04, 2023, 02:24:03 PM
I didn't think playing an organized, counter attacking style is exclusive to only the men's game but it is a very convenient way of creating an argument to try and prove a point.
I think mens and womens counter attacking style are very different. Counter attack is a very broad term, and you specifically brought up a men's club team and how they counter attacked and compared it to a womens international team and how they counter attack. As hoops pointed out, a more accurate comparison would be comparing them to a different womens team. Why are you so infatuated with the 2021 Real Madrid team?
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 04, 2023, 02:29:58 PM
I think mens and womens counter attacking style are very different. Counter attack is a very broad term, and you specifically brought up a men's club team and how they counter attacked and compared it to a womens international team and how they counter attack. As hoops pointed out, a more accurate comparison would be comparing them to a different womens team. Why are you so infatuated with the 2021 Real Madrid team?
I watch women's soccer once every four years. It's easier to draw comparison to something I know.
Quote from: shoothoops on August 04, 2023, 02:11:42 PM
That's just because it's the pathway for Women due to previous pack of professional opportunities. As professional opportunities and $ increase for Women, their pathway will change as well.
Roughly 30 American prospects skip college for professional ball to widely varying degrees of success. College to MLS Next Pro to MLS or International has had success the past couple of years in its new format on the Men's side.
Some top college Women's Soccer Coaches have left for NWSL and other professional opportunities. Randy Waldrum for example, won national titles at Notre Dame, had less success professionally in Houston, and has quickly built bottom dweller Pittsburgh into a top 15 program in just a few seasons. There's a little bit of everything.
Mark Krikorian left FSU after multiple national titles to run an NWSL team. (Washington) And that brings me to the next point.
There's no need to compare Champions League Men's soccer with Women when Champions League Women's soccer exists.
Back to Krikorian, he is well known for his very methodical, East West, possession style teams, in contrast to say Arkansas who has dominated the SEC in recent years with possession indifferent high pressing high octane attack. Alabama presents something a but different to both in their Final Four run last year. as did BYU in their Championship game run a few years ago.
If you want to know how Nigeria plays, just watch some recent Pitt Women's Soccer. If you want to know how Jamaica plays, just watch some Real Colorado club teams, and so on.
As for the U.S., they miss a few key players more than acknowledged, both tangibly and intangibly. They also aren't necessarily playing the most effective combination of players in the best formation. They haven't been committed to a specific style of play which is also a challenge.
It isn't an issue of turning it on or desire.
Many countries would like to be in the Final 16. We'll see how it goes.
I watch women's soccer once every four years. I'm a casual who roots for the US. Appreciate the commentary on acceptable comparisons though.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 03, 2023, 09:00:33 PM
Would it not be more logical to compare the 2023 USWNT to say, the 2019 USWNT or the 2015 USWNT, or even other female national teams?
I'll admit to having watched less of the 2023 tournament than in years past, but this still seems like a worthwhile exercise. Starting XI from the 2019 final compared to starting XI against the Dutch in 2023:
Naeher vs Naeher
Dunn, Sauerbrunn, Dahlkemper, O'Hara VS Dunn, Girma, Ertz, Fox.
Lavelle, Ertz, Mewis vs Horan, Sullivan, DeMelo.
Rapinoe, Morgan, Heath vs Smith Morgan Rodman.
Keeper, I'll call a wash, 35 vs 31 doesn't move the needle much for me. Backline looks like a clear downgrade to me. That's prime Sauerbrunn and Dahlkemper vs promising but young Girma, and out of position Ertz. Fullbacks are probably comparable. Midfield is another downgrade IMO, we got no Mewis, Horan's had a recent major knee injury but is still class, but that 2019 midfield is just stacked. Front line I'll again say is a downgrade, Morgan at 34 isn't as good as Morgan at 30. Heath at 31 is better than Rodman at 22. Rapinoe was declining even at 34, but Smith is still so young that despite having a higher ceiling IMO, comparing her at 21 to Rapinoe at 34 is a wash.
So anyone expecting the same result wasn't paying much attention to the womens team 4 years ago IMO. Even if the only female soccer you watch is the WWC, I would think there would be plenty of good comparisons you could look at before you have to compare the current USWNT to a mens club team from 2 years ago.
Stomg half foe the USA but unfortunately they couldn't get a goal.
Not sure what you are supposed to do about that match. Generated a number of high quality chances, and your veteran players can't even hit the net in a shootout.
Wow.....just wow. That was brutal.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on August 06, 2023, 06:45:24 AM
Not sure what you are supposed to do about that match. Generated a number of high quality chances, and your veteran players can't even hit the net in a shootout.
You can't have three kicks that miss the goal entirely. Simply cannot happen.
Pretty poor pens. The smallest of margins. Musovic played out of her mind.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 06, 2023, 06:48:39 AM
Pretty poor pens. The smallest of margins. Musovic played out of her mind.
I was surprised Rodman didn't play in the 2H. She was great in the 1H.
Took the being equal to the men's team thing a little too far.
I thought us were the marginally better team today but not anymore deserving than Sweden to go through. Just an abomination of a group stage when both the holland and Portugal games were for the taking. Win one and you avoid a tough Sweden draw.
All this talk about a potent offense and they don't score a single goal from open play against a team with a pulse.
How this coach refuses to make subs is criminal. The team just looked gassed as the game moved on and he did nothing to change the direction. Horrific management.
Play poorly, lose. There will be a new coach.
Quote from: panda on August 06, 2023, 08:13:37 AM
I thought us were the marginally better team today but not anymore deserving than Sweden to go through. Just an abomination of a group stage when both the holland and Portugal games were for the taking. Win one and you avoid a tough Sweden draw.
All this talk about a potent offense and they don't score a single goal from open play against a team with a pulse.
How this coach refuses to make subs is criminal. The team just looked gassed as the game moved on and he did nothing to change the direction. Horrific management.
I'm no expert but I thought we played a strong 1H. That said in tbe middle of the field and on the corner kicks I don't think we were particularly good. Especially in the 2H. We seem really predictable. The opportunities we primarily got were from our young players on the wings blowing by their defenders. The Swedish goalie was good but let's not compare her to Hasek or Roy. We didn't get a lot of hammer shots in the corners on goal.
Yes, I think it would be a bad idea to compare the Swedish soccer goaltender to two hockey goaltenders.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on August 06, 2023, 08:49:01 AM
Yes, I think it would be a bad idea to compare the Swedish soccer goaltender to two hockey goaltenders.
My point is easily understood Fluffy.
Quote from: MuggsyB on August 06, 2023, 08:46:00 AM
I'm no expert but I thought we played a strong 1H. That said in tbe middle of the field and on the corner kicks I don't think we were particularly good. Especially in the 2H. We seem really predictable. The opportunities we primarily got were from our young players on the wings blowing by their defenders. The Swedish goalie was good but let's not compare her to Hasek or Roy. We didn't get a lot of hammer shots in the corners on goal.
I'm guessing it was by design, but we played down the wings all tournament avoiding build up possession in the middle of the field. My guess is they're very weak in the middle and they want to avoid losing the ball on a counter ala the Portugal give away almost goal at the end of regulation last game.
Quote from: panda on August 06, 2023, 08:52:20 AM
I'm guessing it was by design, but we played down the wings all tournament avoiding build up possession in the middle of the field. My guess is they're very weak in the middle and they want to avoid losing the ball on a counter ala the Portugal give away almost goal at the end of regulation last game.
From my vantage point they lack creativity with the ball. They have physicality, and might get an occasional set-piece header, but in traffic they are prone to get their pockets picked. It's very one note and analogous to basketball teams driving into the teeth of the defense versus a 7 foot shot blocker.
Quote from: MuggsyB on August 06, 2023, 09:01:27 AM
From my vantage point they lack creativity with the ball. They have physicality, and might get an occasional set-piece header, but in traffic they are prone to get their pockets picked. It's very one note and analogous to basketball teams driving into the teeth of the defense versus a 7 foot shot blocker.
Agreed - zero creativity which plagued them all tournament
Quote from: MuggsyB on August 06, 2023, 08:50:38 AM
My point is easily understood Fluffy.
Comparing soccer goaltenders to hockey goalies is nonsensical.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on August 06, 2023, 09:15:34 AM
Comparing soccer goaltenders to hockey goalies is nonsensical.
It's not my fault Fluffy you don't understand my point. I wasn't literally comparing the two sports, it's an analogy. I was essentially comparing the reaction to her play to that of a great player like Hasek. Get a freaking grip Fluffman.
Quote from: MuggsyB on August 06, 2023, 09:22:06 AM
It's not my fault Fluffy you don't understand my point. I wasn't literally comparing the two sports, it's an analogy. I was essentially comparing the reaction to her play to that of a great player like Hasek. Get a freaking grip Fluffman.
You literally compared them. It was nonsensical.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on August 06, 2023, 09:29:08 AM
You literally compared them. It was nonsensical.
Okay, you're right. I think women's soccer and men's hockey are the same thing.
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on August 06, 2023, 07:31:47 AM
Took the being equal to the men's team thing a little too far.
Eh. They qualified. So...
Quote from: panda on August 06, 2023, 09:05:29 AM
Agreed - zero creativity which plagued them all tournament
Not getting much of anything from Lavelle all tournament killed them imo. Her offense in the attacking midfield would have made them much more dangerous going forward, but between injury and card suspension, she was a nonfactor.
Quote from: wadesworld on August 06, 2023, 09:48:36 AM
Eh. They qualified. So...
Men have already qualified for next World Cup! ;D
Quote from: pbiflyer on August 06, 2023, 10:13:05 AM
Men have already qualified for next World Cup! ;D
Lol true.
Quote from: panda on August 06, 2023, 08:52:20 AM
I'm guessing it was by design, but we played down the wings all tournament avoiding build up possession in the middle of the field. My guess is they're very weak in the middle and they want to avoid losing the ball on a counter ala the Portugal give away almost goal at the end of regulation last game.
As you said, you watch every four years. Two high midfielders didn't play in the WC due to injury. A third played center back. A 4th played outside back.
Quote from: shoothoops on August 06, 2023, 01:17:34 PM
As you said, you watch every four years. Two high midfielders didn't play in the WC due to injury. A third played center back. A 4th played outside back.
That was my educated guess without being intimately knowledgeable about the rosters strengths and weaknesses.
Quote from: panda on August 06, 2023, 02:46:40 PM
That was my educated guess without being intimately knowledgeable about the rosters strengths and weaknesses.
That also doesn't include curious personnel and coaching decisions.
Quote from: shoothoops on August 06, 2023, 03:48:00 PM
That also doesn't include curious personnel and coaching decisions.
Rapinoe should not have played today. She was horrible, even before the PK.
Quote from: lawdog77 on August 06, 2023, 03:49:13 PM
Rapinoe should not have played today. She was horrible, even before the PK.
Ya....that didn't make any sense to me. I didn't understand her corner kicks at all.
Comparatively speaking, still waaaay better than the US Men's team.
Quote from: warriorchick on August 06, 2023, 07:12:57 PM
Comparatively speaking, still waaaay better than the US Men's team.
Whoop-di-doo
Quote from: warriorchick on August 06, 2023, 07:12:57 PM
Comparatively speaking, still waaaay better than the US Men's team.
On the biggest stage, identical exits. Yeah I get what you mean for standing globally but the results are results at the moment.
Quote from: ZaLiN on August 07, 2023, 09:19:15 PM
On the biggest stage, identical exits. Yeah I get what you mean for standing globally but the results are results at the moment.
Yeah, and the US Women's team is Duke/UNC/Kansas losing in the S16. The USMNT is more like St Mary's or Memphis losing in the S16
Correct. But seemingly inverse trajectories here
Spain has been the better team. And the Netherlands just go hosed.
Not a good moment for the Colombian goaltender. Sweet Jesus. PIck up the freaking ball.
Australia ties it up and now England is trying not to break.
Edit: Wow. That changed fast.
Quote from: JWags85 on August 07, 2023, 09:23:19 PM
Yeah, and the US Women's team is Duke/UNC/Kansas losing in the S16. The USMNT is more like St Mary's or Memphis losing in the S16
Isn't the woman's team loosing more like NDSU loosing in FCS playoff, based on overall interest in the sport?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 16, 2023, 10:08:37 AM
Isn't the woman's team loosing more like NDSU loosing in FCS playoff, based on overall interest in the sport?
https://www.euromonitor.com/press/press-releases/july-20232/womens-world-cup-2023-viewership-to-cross-2-billion-double-from-2019-euromonitor-international#:~:text=2019%3A%20Euromonitor%20International-,Women%27s%20World%20Cup%202023%20viewership%20to%20cross%202,double%20from%202019%3A%20Euromonitor%20International&text=Share%3A,from%201.12%20billion%20in%202019
https://www.dw.com/en/womens-world-cup-sees-attendance-and-tv-rating-records-tumble/a-66503615
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 16, 2023, 10:08:37 AM
Isn't the woman's team loosing more like NDSU loosing in FCS playoff, based on overall interest in the sport?
In the World Cup? No.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 16, 2023, 11:43:33 AM
In the World Cup? No.
Ok, I stand corrected. I thought I heard on CBS Sunday Morning piece that the men's WC generates 5 x the revenue compared to women's WC.
Andonovski already stepping down from the USWNT.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 16, 2023, 11:43:33 AM
In the World Cup? No.
Quick check on Time website:
"Despite having more sponsors than ever before, it seems these partnerships aren't yet paying off. Sponsorship revenue generated by this summer's event is estimated at $300 million, which pales in comparison to the $1.7 billion created for the tournament in Qatar, according to research provided to Bloomberg by analytical firm Omdia."
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 16, 2023, 08:28:46 PM
Quick check on Time website: "Despite having more sponsors than ever before, it seems these partnerships aren't yet paying off. Sponsorship revenue generated by this summer's event is estimated at $300 million, which pales in comparison to the $1.7 billion created for the tournament in Qatar, according to research provided to Bloomberg by analytical firm Omdia."
You compared overall interest not finances. And you compared it to the FCS playoffs something no one outside of the USA watches, with an event being watched around the globe.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on August 16, 2023, 11:14:26 PM
You compared overall interest not finances. And you compared it to the FCS playoffs something no one outside of the USA watches, with an event being watched around the globe.
I am truly not taking any shots at women's soccer. I had a daughter play for 6 years and I like it. I am very proud of our national team who have been great.
I was pointing out in the world of soccer it is not like top tier NCAA Basketball as it was compared to by JWags. Perhaps comparing our national team to UCONN WBB would have been best.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 17, 2023, 08:10:08 AM
I am truly not taking any shots at women's soccer. I had a daughter play for 6 years and I like it. I am very proud of our national team who have been great.
I was pointing out in the world of soccer it is not like top tier NCAA Basketball as it was compared to by JWags. Perhaps comparing our national team to UCONN WBB would have been best.
Yes you did take a shot at women's soccer. No one said anything about popularity or finances. Wags was just comparing how big of an upset the women's team losing in the first round of the knockouts was to how not as big of an upset it was for the men's team. You were the one who felt compelled to bring up how much less popular women's soccer is than men's soccer and have now compared an event watched around the globe to two events that no one outside of the US watches.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 17, 2023, 08:10:08 AM
I am truly not taking any shots at women's soccer. I had a daughter play for 6 years and I like it. I am very proud of our national team who have been great.
I was pointing out in the world of soccer it is not like top tier NCAA Basketball as it was compared to by JWags. Perhaps comparing our national team to UCONN WBB would have been best.
Of course you're taking shots at women's soccer. When Wags brought up a parallel based on the sport this group follows, you introduced a different parallel based on "the overall interest in the sport." The overall interest in the sport has no bearing on the parallel Wags made.
Live look at usmnt vs uswnt watch parties
(https://www.jacksonville.com/gcdn/authoring/2017/03/08/NFTU/ghows-LK-5e67cd34-fbb4-4dde-8135-4fb396898792-eb35c8ae.jpeg?crop=1483,838,x0,y137&width=1483&height=838&format=pjpg&auto=webp)
USWNT interest is to FCS Playoffs
as
USMNT interest is to NFL Playoffs
Quote from: panda on August 17, 2023, 09:00:09 AM
Live look at usmnt vs uswnt watch parties
(https://www.jacksonville.com/gcdn/authoring/2017/03/08/NFTU/ghows-LK-5e67cd34-fbb4-4dde-8135-4fb396898792-eb35c8ae.jpeg?crop=1483,838,x0,y137&width=1483&height=838&format=pjpg&auto=webp)
Honestly, it mostly probably depends on circumstances that have nothing to do with the actual sport or performance. Viewership was always going to be down solely based on the fact that it was in Australia/New Zealand. The USMNT game vs England at the 2022 WC had incredible ratings largely because it was on Black Friday when a lot of people aren't working. 1999 is largely remembered because of one PK, the actual 120 minutes of the game were fairly dull, but because it was at the Rose Bowl, and was on a Saturday in July, it still had an attendance of over 90K. I suspect that regardless of performance, the 2026 WC numbers are going to be huge, and that shouldn't necessarily be used to compare the men's and women's game.
As someone who doesn't like soccer, I'd much rather watch the women's National Team than the Men's. I understand on the world level, men's soccer is much more popular than women's, but I'm actually pretty surprised that in the US the men's side has more viewers than the women.
Quote from: Its DJOver on August 17, 2023, 09:33:47 AM
Honestly, it mostly probably depends on circumstances that have nothing to do with the actual sport or performance. Viewership was always going to be down solely based on the fact that it was in Australia/New Zealand. The USMNT game vs England at the 2022 WC had incredible ratings largely because it was on Black Friday when a lot of people aren't working. 1999 is largely remembered because of one PK, the actual 120 minutes of the game were fairly dull, but because it was at the Rose Bowl, and was on a Saturday in July, it still had an attendance of over 90K. I suspect that regardless of performance, the 2026 WC numbers are going to be huge, and that shouldn't necessarily be used to compare the men's and women's game.
Good point on games being played at 3 AM and 5 AM Central time. I watched the two 8 PM games and nothing else.
Quote from: wadesworld on August 17, 2023, 02:38:26 PM
As someone who doesn't like soccer, I'd much rather watch the women's National Team than the Men's. I understand on the world level, men's soccer is much more popular than women's, but I'm actually pretty surprised that in the US the men's side has more viewers than the women.
Because they were the best team in the world versus a mid tier team like the USMNT? Genuinely curious?
And its actually not surprising at all. Womens soccer has come a long way, but mens soccer is still VASTLY more popular. I would wager Australia's mens Socceroos, which trails the US mens team significantly, still has far more viewers than the womens team, despite them being a world power. Its like it wouldn't be a surprise if the WNBA's Aces were still in SA and significantly trailed the Spurs in viewers, even though they were champs and the Spurs stunk (before Wemby obviously).
The USWNT has predominantly fans of that team. I would wager most that tune in for the WWC aren't watching NWSL or other Womens professional leagues. Whereas the mens team attracts soccer fans who are watching the EPL or La Liga or Bundesliga weekly, especially now that the Mens team has multiple players in those leagues. Even in the US, where soccer in the mainstream on TV and whatnot is "newer", the mens team and leagues still have a decades head start on the women.
Quote from: JWags85 on August 17, 2023, 05:49:34 PM
Because they were the best team in the world versus a mid tier team like the USMNT? Genuinely curious?
And its actually not surprising at all. Womens soccer has come a long way, but mens soccer is still VASTLY more popular. I would wager Australia's mens Socceroos, which trails the US mens team significantly, still has far more viewers than the womens team, despite them being a world power. Its like it wouldn't be a surprise if the WNBA's Aces were still in SA and significantly trailed the Spurs in viewers, even though they were champs and the Spurs stunk (before Wemby obviously).
The USWNT has predominantly fans of that team. I would wager most that tune in for the WWC aren't watching NWSL or other Womens professional leagues. Whereas the mens team attracts soccer fans who are watching the EPL or La Liga or Bundesliga weekly, especially now that the Mens team has multiple players in those leagues. Even in the US, where soccer in the mainstream on TV and whatnot is "newer", the mens team and leagues still have a decades head start on the women.
Yeah the main reason is they have a chance to win the World Cup while the men don't. But I have also felt (probably very incorrectly) that there are more scoring opportunities in the women's game than the men's game. I guess I just find it more entertaining.
Congratulations to Spain. They deserved.it.
Just heart breaking. Just after Olga Carmona scored the World Cup winning goal, she learned her father died. I can't even imagine the emotional roller coaster that must've been.
https://x.com/meninblazers/status/1693365738780684737?s=46&t=y09G3XF0pbaZZc_-K-dYSw
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 20, 2023, 06:08:15 PM
Just heart breaking. Just after Olga Carmona scored the World Cup winning goal, she learned her father died. I can't even imagine the emotional roller coaster that must've been.
https://x.com/meninblazers/status/1693365738780684737?s=46&t=y09G3XF0pbaZZc_-K-dYSw
Wow. How awful. What happened to the guy?