Women's World Cup 2023

[MuggsyB]

I know nothing about soccer but it seems to me there are several issues at play.  I thought they had a very strong 2nd half vs The Netherlands so maybe they can turn it on vs the Swedes. 

[Its DJOver]

I didn't think playing an organized, counter attacking style is exclusive to only the men's game but it is a very convenient way of creating an argument to try and prove a point.

I think mens and womens counter attacking style are very different.  Counter attack is a very broad term, and you specifically brought up a men's club team and how they counter attacked and compared it to a womens international team and how they counter attack.  As hoops pointed out, a more accurate comparison would be comparing them to a different womens team. Why are you so infatuated with the 2021 Real Madrid team?

[panda]

I think mens and womens counter attacking style are very different.  Counter attack is a very broad term, and you specifically brought up a men's club team and how they counter attacked and compared it to a womens international team and how they counter attack.  As hoops pointed out, a more accurate comparison would be comparing them to a different womens team. Why are you so infatuated with the 2021 Real Madrid team?

I watch women's soccer once every four years. It's easier to draw comparison to something I know.

[panda]

That's just because it's the pathway for Women due to previous pack of professional opportunities. As professional opportunities and $ increase for Women, their pathway will change as well.

Roughly 30 American prospects skip college for professional ball to widely varying degrees of success. College to MLS Next Pro to MLS or International has had success the past couple of years in its new format on the Men's side.

Some top college Women's Soccer Coaches have left for NWSL and other professional opportunities. Randy Waldrum for example, won national titles at Notre Dame, had less success professionally in Houston, and has quickly built bottom dweller Pittsburgh into a top 15 program in just a few seasons. There's a little bit of everything.

Mark Krikorian left FSU after multiple national titles to run an NWSL team. (Washington) And that brings me to the next point.

There's no need to compare Champions League Men's soccer with Women when Champions League Women's soccer exists.

Back to Krikorian, he is well known for his very methodical, East West, possession style teams, in contrast to say Arkansas who has dominated the SEC in recent years with possession indifferent high pressing high octane attack. Alabama presents something a but different to both in their Final Four run last year. as did BYU in their Championship game run a few years ago.

If you want to know how Nigeria plays, just watch some recent Pitt Women's Soccer. If you want to know how Jamaica plays, just watch some Real Colorado club teams, and so on.

As for the U.S., they miss a few key players more than acknowledged, both tangibly and intangibly. They also aren't necessarily playing the most effective combination of players in the best formation. They haven't been committed to a specific style of play which is also a challenge.

It isn't an issue of turning it on or desire.

Many countries would like to be in the Final 16. We'll see how it goes.

I watch women's soccer once every four years. I'm a casual who roots for the US. Appreciate the commentary on acceptable comparisons though.

[Its DJOver]

Would it not be more logical to compare the 2023 USWNT to say, the 2019 USWNT or the 2015 USWNT, or even other female national teams?

I'll admit to having watched less of the 2023 tournament than in years past, but this still seems like a worthwhile exercise.  Starting XI from the 2019 final compared to starting XI against the Dutch in 2023:

Naeher vs Naeher

Dunn, Sauerbrunn, Dahlkemper, O'Hara VS Dunn, Girma, Ertz, Fox.

Lavelle, Ertz, Mewis vs Horan, Sullivan, DeMelo. 

Rapinoe, Morgan, Heath vs Smith Morgan Rodman.

Keeper, I'll call a wash, 35 vs 31 doesn't move the needle much for me.  Backline looks like a clear downgrade to me.  That's prime Sauerbrunn and Dahlkemper vs promising but young Girma, and out of position Ertz. Fullbacks are probably comparable. Midfield is another downgrade IMO, we got no Mewis, Horan's had a recent major knee injury but is still class, but that 2019 midfield is just stacked.  Front line I'll again say is a downgrade, Morgan at 34 isn't as good as Morgan at 30.  Heath at 31 is better than Rodman at 22.  Rapinoe was declining even at 34, but Smith is still so young that despite having a higher ceiling IMO, comparing her at 21 to Rapinoe at 34 is a wash. 

So anyone expecting the same result wasn't paying much attention to the womens team 4 years ago IMO.  Even if the only female soccer you watch is the WWC, I would think there would be plenty of good comparisons you could look at before you have to compare the current USWNT to a mens club team from 2 years ago.

[MuggsyB]

Stomg half foe the USA but unfortunately they couldn't get a goal.

[The Sultan]

Not sure what you are supposed to do about that match. Generated a number of high quality chances, and your veteran players can't even hit the net in a shootout.

[MuggsyB]

Wow.....just wow.  That was brutal. 

[MuggsyB]

Not sure what you are supposed to do about that match. Generated a number of high quality chances, and your veteran players can't even hit the net in a shootout.

You can't have three kicks that miss the goal entirely.  Simply cannot happen. 

[Its DJOver]

Pretty poor pens.  The smallest of margins. Musovic played out of her mind.

[MuggsyB]

Pretty poor pens.  The smallest of margins. Musovic played out of her mind.

I was surprised Rodman didn't play in the 2H.  She was great in the 1H. 

[CreightonWarrior]

Took the being equal to the men's team thing a little too far.

[panda]

I thought us were the marginally better team today but not anymore deserving than Sweden to go through. Just an abomination of a group stage when both the holland and Portugal games were for the taking. Win one and you avoid a tough Sweden draw.

All this talk about a potent offense and they don't score a single goal from open play against a team with a pulse.

How this coach refuses to make subs is criminal. The team just looked gassed as the game moved on and he did nothing to change the direction. Horrific management.

[tower912]

Play poorly, lose.     There will be a new coach. 

[MuggsyB]

I thought us were the marginally better team today but not anymore deserving than Sweden to go through. Just an abomination of a group stage when both the holland and Portugal games were for the taking. Win one and you avoid a tough Sweden draw.

All this talk about a potent offense and they don't score a single goal from open play against a team with a pulse.

How this coach refuses to make subs is criminal. The team just looked gassed as the game moved on and he did nothing to change the direction. Horrific management.

I'm no expert but I thought we played a strong  1H.  That said in tbe middle of the field and on the corner kicks I don't think we were particularly good.   Especially in the 2H.  We seem really predictable.  The opportunities we primarily got were from our young players on the wings blowing by their defenders.  The Swedish goalie was good but let's not compare her to Hasek or Roy.  We didn't get a lot of  hammer shots in the corners on goal. 

[The Sultan]

Yes, I think it would be a bad idea to compare the Swedish soccer goaltender to two hockey goaltenders.

[MuggsyB]

Yes, I think it would be a bad idea to compare the Swedish soccer goaltender to two hockey goaltenders.

My point is easily understood Fluffy. 

[panda]

I'm no expert but I thought we played a strong  1H.  That said in tbe middle of the field and on the corner kicks I don't think we were particularly good.   Especially in the 2H.  We seem really predictable.  The opportunities we primarily got were from our young players on the wings blowing by their defenders.  The Swedish goalie was good but let's not compare her to Hasek or Roy.  We didn't get a lot of  hammer shots in the corners on goal.

I'm guessing it was by design, but we played down the wings all tournament avoiding build up possession in the middle of the field. My guess is they're very weak in the middle and they want to avoid losing the ball on a counter ala the Portugal give away almost goal at the end of regulation last game.

[MuggsyB]

I'm guessing it was by design, but we played down the wings all tournament avoiding build up possession in the middle of the field. My guess is they're very weak in the middle and they want to avoid losing the ball on a counter ala the Portugal give away almost goal at the end of regulation last game.

From my vantage point they lack creativity with the ball. They have physicality, and might get an occasional set-piece header, but in traffic they are prone to get their pockets picked.  It's very one note and analogous to basketball teams driving into the teeth of the defense versus a 7 foot shot blocker. 

[panda]

From my vantage point they lack creativity with the ball. They have physicality, and might get an occasional set-piece header, but in traffic they are prone to get their pockets picked.  It's very one note and analogous to basketball teams driving into the teeth of the defense versus a 7 foot shot blocker.

Agreed - zero creativity which plagued them all tournament

[The Sultan]

My point is easily understood Fluffy. 

Comparing soccer goaltenders to hockey goalies is nonsensical.

[MuggsyB]

Comparing soccer goaltenders to hockey goalies is nonsensical.

It's not my fault Fluffy you don't understand my point.  I wasn't literally comparing the two sports, it's an analogy.  I was essentially comparing the reaction to her play to that of a great player like Hasek.  Get a freaking grip Fluffman. 

[The Sultan]

It's not my fault Fluffy you don't understand my point.  I wasn't literally comparing the two sports, it's an analogy.  I was essentially comparing the reaction to her play to that of a great player like Hasek.  Get a freaking grip Fluffman. 

You literally compared them. It was nonsensical.

[MuggsyB]

You literally compared them. It was nonsensical.

Okay, you're right.  I think women's soccer and men's hockey are the same thing. 

[wadesworld]

Took the being equal to the men's team thing a little too far.

Eh. They qualified. So...