Women's World Cup 2023

[lawdog77]

Pay the women like the men, and they play like them

[Its DJOver]

Stale going forward, and that's on the coach, but 1 shot on target allowed over three games is nothing short of elite.  The gap has closed, but I would bet the oddsmakers still have us as healthy favorites against Sweden.

[tower912]

I believe Lavelle is out for the Sweden game after picking up her second yellow card.  It may be even more challenging to generate offense.

[MuggsyB]

Stale going forward, and that's on the coach, but 1 shot on target allowed over three games is nothing short of elite.  The gap has closed, but I would bet the oddsmakers still have us as healthy favorites against Sweden.

Maybe the gap has closed but that suggests we're as good a team as we have been in tbe past.  Clearly we're not.  They don't seem to be getting good opportunities to score and the coach by all accounts has been abysmal. 

[Its DJOver]

Maybe the gap has closed but that suggests we're as good a team as we have been in tbe past.  Clearly we're not.  They don't seem to be getting good opportunities to score and the coach by all accounts has been abysmal.

Our front line is 21, 22, and 34 respectively.  Smith and Rodman will get there, but it's rare to get instant impact from players that young, and Morgan isn't the player she was.  Lavelle is coming off an injury. Swanson borderline starter, injured in April. Saurbrunn was borderline captain, injured (also pushing Ertz back into CB rather than in the midfield). Cat Macario, projected starter, injured.  Sam Mewis, projected starter, injured. Christen Press, borderline starter, injured.  Players are being asked to play roles they never have before. 

Also, look at the players that have been subbed in. 38 year old Rapinoe, 34 year old O'Hara, 18 year old Thompson. I wouldn't want any of them going the full 90, Rapinoe playing a half hour was borderline too much.  Let's just pump the brakes on the complaining until we actually lose a game.

[MuggsyB]

Our front line is 21, 22, and 34 respectively.  Smith and Rodman will get there, but it's rare to get instant impact from players that young, and Morgan isn't the player she was.  Lavelle is coming off an injury. Swanson borderline starter, injured in April. Saurbrunn was borderline captain, injured (also pushing Ertz back into CB rather than in the midfield). Cat Macario, projected starter, injured.  Sam Mewis, projected starter, injured. Christen Press, borderline starter, injured.  Players are being asked to play roles they never have before. 

Also, look at the players that have been subbed in. 38 year old Rapinoe, 34 year old O'Hara, 18 year old Thompson. I wouldn't want any of them going the full 90, Rapinoe playing a half hour was borderline too much.  Let's just pump the brakes on the complaining until we actually lose a game.

Maybe they'll wake up in the elimination rounds but it sounds like tne road is going to be difficult.

[Its DJOver]

Maybe they'll wake up in the elimination rounds but it sounds like tne road is going to be difficult.

It always is, as it's supposed to be.  What do you remember more from 2019, the 13-0 Thailand game, or when we nearly went out in the R16 to Spain, needing 2 pens and being dominated for large portions just to squeak out a 1 goal win.  Same margin of victory in the Quarters and Semi's too.  There's a reason that no one's ever won 3 in a row, no one has any margin for error.

[shoothoops]

Our front line is 21, 22, and 34 respectively.  Smith and Rodman will get there, but it's rare to get instant impact from players that young, and Morgan isn't the player she was.  Lavelle is coming off an injury. Swanson borderline starter, injured in April. Saurbrunn was borderline captain, injured (also pushing Ertz back into CB rather than in the midfield). Cat Macario, projected starter, injured.  Sam Mewis, projected starter, injured. Christen Press, borderline starter, injured.  Players are being asked to play roles they never have before. 

Also, look at the players that have been subbed in. 38 year old Rapinoe, 34 year old O'Hara, 18 year old Thompson. I wouldn't want any of them going the full 90, Rapinoe playing a half hour was borderline too much.  Let's just pump the brakes on the complaining until we actually lose a game.

I's agree with much of this. No need to say "borderline" for Swanson or Sauerbrunn.

There are other tactical opportunities with the current group which includes moving Ertz and Dunn to better suited positions, inserting Cook, etc...at least they played Williams this game, etc...

[MuggsyB]

Carli Lloyd apparently unloaded on the team. 

[shoothoops]

Carli Lloyd apparently unloaded on the team.

You wouldm't be surprised to know that many former great Men's and Women's athletes, aren't great analysts.

Let me know when she says something constructive and productive about tactics and strategy.

Lloyd didn't like smiling, yes smiling after a game. She said the team was too focused on their bramd and endorsements, yet I don't recall her ever turning down the stardom and endorsements the team in part made for her.

Llyod was the only player who refused to kneel to protest racism at the Tokyo Olympics. She doesn't like the culture of the team because her politics are different from many on the team.

This is the same person who ran sprints in front of media and cameras after being eliminated from the Olympics. Look at me. It wasn't my.fault.

This is the same Carli Lloyd that did a book tour during the Houston Dash playoffs of 2016.

"I have every sponsor knocking on the door, every appearance opportunity — how can I not take advantage of that?" she told The Athletic upon reflection in 2021. "If I look back now, and I decided to turn down all of those things, I would not be in a position right now to have a future, to have savings."

Her disdain for the media was well known, and of course she takes a job in media.

If only the team tried as hard as her, yep that's it. Great player and maybe she will say something productive in the media some day too. And no don't get me started on Lalas.

I'm all for constructive criticism with solutions..let me know when she has any and I'll take a look.

Oh the horror:

https://twitter.com/NWSL/status/1686483025943543808?t=782OXp8WeX78fhe4QAJ5fA&s=19

[MuggsyB]

You wouldm't be surprised to know that many former great Men's and Women's athletes, aren't great analysts.

Let me know when she says something constructive and productive about tactics and strategy.

Lloyd didn't like smiling, yes smiling after a game. She said the team was too focused on their bramd and endorsements, yet I don't recall her ever turning down the stardom and endorsements the team in part made for her.

Llyod was the only player who refused to kneel to protest racism at the Tokyo Olympics. She doesn't like the culture of the team because her politics are different from many on the team.

This is the same person who ran sprints in front of media and cameras after being eliminated from the Olympics. Look at me. It wasn't my.fault.

This is the same Carli Lloyd that did a book tour during the Houston Dash playoffs of 2016.

"I have every sponsor knocking on the door, every appearance opportunity — how can I not take advantage of that?" she told The Athletic upon reflection in 2021. "If I look back now, and I decided to turn down all of those things, I would not be in a position right now to have a future, to have savings."

Her disdain for the media was well known, and of course she takes a job in media.

If only the team tried as hard as her, yep that's it. Great player and maybe she will say something productive in the media some day too. And no don't get me started on Lalas.

I'm all for constructive criticism with solutions..let me know when she has any and I'll take a look.

Oh the horror:

https://twitter.com/NWSL/status/1686483025943543808?t=782OXp8WeX78fhe4QAJ5fA&s=19

That doesn't mean she's wrong that our team has been mediocre at best. 

[shoothoops]

That doesn't mean she's wrong that our team has been mediocre at best.

Link.me something to direct quotes of her specific analysis. I'll take a look. So far I haven't seen any. And, I pointed out where she has been both wrong and hypocritical.

[Its DJOver]

So to recap, 40th FIFA ranked Nigeria (yea I know take FIFA rankings FWTW) advances at the expense of 7th ranked Canada.  43rd ranked Jamaica advances at the expense of 8th ranked Brazil. 54th ranked South Africa advances at the expense of 16th ranked Italy, and 72nd ranked Morocco advances at the expense of 2nd ranked Germany.  It's almost like anything can happen in a World Cup, and a "survive and advance" mindset is one that works.

[Lennys Tap]

So to recap, 40th FIFA ranked Nigeria (yea I know take FIFA rankings FWTW) advances at the expense of 7th ranked Canada.  43rd ranked Jamaica advances at the expense of 8th ranked Brazil. 54th ranked South Africa advances at the expense of 16th ranked Italy, and 72nd ranked Morocco advances at the expense of 2nd ranked Germany.  It's almost like anything can happen in a World Cup, and a "survive and advance" mindset is one that works.

Crapshoot, a'ina?

[panda]

Survive and advance is fine if you're organized and are playing with direction. The US is toothless in attack,  looked extremely vulnerable with possession in deep and very shaky at times in the back (thank you post).

When I think of "survive and advance" from a top quality team, I think of Real Madrid in 2022 winning champions league. They had no interest in possession and were so organized at every level. Defended exceptionally well and when they won the ball, were absolutely clinical/lethal on the counter. They ran an absolute gauntlet that year beating city (best team in Europe imo), Liverpool in the final, psg and Chelsea. I believe they were second best going into each of those matchups except Chelsea.

The uswnt are completely listless in possession. They can't do anything on the counter and can't break down a defense sitting behind the ball. Survive and advance may work, but this team is destined for an early exit with the way they've been playing.

[shoothoops]

Link.me something to direct quotes of her specific analysis. I'll take a look. So far I haven't seen any. And, I pointed out where she has been both wrong and hypocritical.

Lloyd actually did some analysis by suggesting Smith up top.with Williams and Rodman wide to create more width. That would have met with a better response had she began with that instead of some of the other nonsense.

[shoothoops]

So to recap, 40th FIFA ranked Nigeria (yea I know take FIFA rankings FWTW) advances at the expense of 7th ranked Canada.  43rd ranked Jamaica advances at the expense of 8th ranked Brazil. 54th ranked South Africa advances at the expense of 16th ranked Italy, and 72nd ranked Morocco advances at the expense of 2nd ranked Germany.  It's almost like anything can happen in a World Cup, and a "survive and advance" mindset is one that works.

Improved play, increased depth around the world. It's great for the game.

Waldrum, Donaldson, etc...are well respected accomplished coaches and leaders too sometimes in spite of great obstacles.

[Its DJOver]

Survive and advance is fine if you're organized and are playing with direction. The US is toothless in attack,  looked extremely vulnerable with possession in deep and very shaky at times in the back (thank you post).

When I think of "survive and advance" from a top quality team, I think of Real Madrid in 2022 winning champions league. They had no interest in possession and were so organized at every level. Defended exceptionally well and when they won the ball, were absolutely clinical/lethal on the counter. They ran an absolute gauntlet that year beating city (best team in Europe imo), Liverpool in the final, psg and Chelsea. I believe they were second best going into each of those matchups except Chelsea.

The uswnt are completely listless in possession. They can't do anything on the counter and can't break down a defense sitting behind the ball. Survive and advance may work, but this team is destined for an early exit with the way they've been playing.

It's the knockouts, everyone has a "survive and advance" mentality.  City, who you admit is the best team in Europe had a survive and advance/win mentality when they played inter in the final.  They were "toothless in attack, and listless in possession", but they got one lucky bounce in the final third, and a few lucky bounces/saves in the defensive third.  The US and Sweden have each only conceded once in the tournament.  This match has 1-0 written all over it (if someone scores at all), stay organized defensively, which we've been great at despite needed the post once over 270 minutes, and capitalize on what will likely be limited chances going forward.  Easier said than done, but that's the way its gotta happen.

[panda]

It's the knockouts, everyone has a "survive and advance" mentality.  City, who you admit is the best team in Europe had a survive and advance/win mentality when they played inter in the final.  They were "toothless in attack, and listless in possession", but they got one lucky bounce in the final third, and a few lucky bounces/saves in the defensive third.  The US and Sweden have each only conceded once in the tournament.  This match has 1-0 written all over it (if someone scores at all), stay organized defensively, which we've been great at despite needed the post once over 270 minutes, and capitalize on what will likely be limited chances going forward.  Easier said than done, but that's the way its gotta happen.

David shots
Rato shots !
Caio shots !
Braida tackles
Klic assists
Maia under tackle



I would be careful to use man city last season as a good example of "survive and advance." Their march through Europe was probably the most dominant I can ever remember in champions league. One game is a pretty poor example to cherry pick from an entire knock out style format, especially when de bruyne was forced to leave 15 mins into the game.

It's also very convenient to completely ignore my example of Madrid two seasons ago and try and cherry pick something else to prove your point (incorrectly).

The USA has played poorly. Their coach said they've played like crap. I don't think it's by design. They have no interlink play between the midfield and front 3. They're playing way too narrow. Zero tactical adjustments. It's not some masterclass in tactics. They've just been poor.

https://twitter.com/paulcarr/status/1686283396811563008?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A

Wasteful and purposeless in possession is different than defending with purpose and clinical in posessesion.

[Its DJOver]

I would be careful to use man city last season as a good example of "survive and advance." Their march through Europe was probably the most dominant I can ever remember in champions league. One game is a pretty poor example to cherry pick from an entire knock out style format, especially when de bruyne was forced to leave 15 mins into the game.

It's also very convenient to completely ignore my example of Madrid two seasons ago and try and cherry pick something else to prove your point (incorrectly).

The USA has played poorly. Their coach said they've played like crap. I don't think it's by design. They have no interlink play between the midfield and front 3. They're playing way too narrow. Zero tactical adjustments. It's not some masterclass in tactics. They've just been poor.

https://twitter.com/paulcarr/status/1686283396811563008?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A

Wasteful and purposeless in possession is different than defending with purpose and clinical in posessesion.

Champions league finals are a better comparison because they're the same format that the WC is. 90 minutes, then 30, then kicks. Not 90 min home/away, which is why you shouldn't cherry pick their path when they were playing in front of their home crowds, to try to (incorrectly) prove your point. Man City's last win away from the Etihad in the Champions League was against Sevilla in the group stages.  Their run involved not losing the tie in the 90 minutes on the road.  That strategy doesn't work in a 1 match playoff format the we're in now. 

If you want to argue that the US isn't as good as '19 or '15, I would agree.  I don't think the squad is as good, and I don't think the coaching is as good.  I also think the rest of the world is comparatively better than they were in '19 or '15.  We could lose to Sweden on Sunday and it would be far from the biggest upset of the tournament.  We could still win the tournament.  Neither would surprise me tbh.  Previous performances have no bearing on future performances (other than Lavelle being suspended).

[panda]

Champions league finals are a better comparison because they're the same format that the WC is. 90 minutes, then 30, then kicks. Not 90 min home/away, which is why you shouldn't cherry pick their path when they were playing in front of their home crowds, to try to (incorrectly) prove your point. Man City's last win away from the Etihad in the Champions League was against Sevilla in the group stages.  Their run involved not losing the tie in the 90 minutes on the road.  That strategy doesn't work in a 1 match playoff format the we're in now. 

If you want to argue that the US isn't as good as '19 or '15, I would agree.  I don't think the squad is as good, and I don't think the coaching is as good.  I also think the rest of the world is comparatively better than they were in '19 or '15.  We could lose to Sweden on Sunday and it would be far from the biggest upset of the tournament.  We could still win the tournament.  Neither would surprise me tbh.  Previous performances have no bearing on future performances (other than Lavelle being suspended).

Buddy I was talking about Madrid's style of play during champions league two years ago. We'll use the cup final as an example. Liverpool dominated the ball, chances etc, to the untrained eye, but Madrid took their chance and sprung. So organized and purposeful without the ball. Clinical on the counter. 

Such a powerful team, but capable of winning without a ton of chances. The opposite of uswnt this tournament (and the last Olympics too).

[Its DJOver]

Buddy I was talking about Madrid's style of play during champions league two years ago. We'll use the cup final as an example. Liverpool dominated the ball, chances etc, to the untrained eye, but Madrid took their chance and sprung. So organized and purposeful without the ball. Clinical on the counter. 

Such a powerful team, but capable of winning without a ton of chances. The opposite of uswnt this tournament (and the last Olympics too).

Or, you have to play like that against that Liverpool team with prime Salah and Mane. City played the same way against them.  You just can't leave space in behind with wingers that pacey.  Less to do with Madrid, more with Liverpool.

We're not playing great in the final third, but we've certainly been capable of winning these games.  I think you might underestimate how small the margins have been.

[panda]

Or, you have to play like that against that Liverpool team with prime Salah and Mane. City played the same way against them.  You just can't leave space in behind with wingers that pacey.  Less to do with Madrid, more with Liverpool.

We're not playing great in the final third, but we've certainly been capable of winning these games.  I think you might underestimate how small the margins have been.

And Chelsea. And psg. And city... they played on the counter in each of those legs. Hence my original point...

[Its DJOver]

And Chelsea. And psg. And city... they played on the counter in each of those legs. Hence my original point...

So your point is that Real Madrid and the USWNT play the game differently?  Revolutionary stuff.

https://footystats.org/international/united-states-womens-national-team-vs-portugal-womens-national-team-h2h-stats#

https://footystats.org/international/netherlands-womens-national-team-vs-united-states-womens-national-team-h2h-stats#4474630

https://footystats.org/international/united-states-womens-national-team-vs-vietnam-womens-national-team-h2h-stats#4474617

Advanced stats tell the tale.  Healthy xG lead in every game. Not putting away enough in the final third, very predictable considering the age of our starting line expected to produce.  Giving up very little on the back end, very predictable given the style of play that's been adapted.  Creating chances hasn't been the problem, it's finishing them.

[panda]

So your point is that Real Madrid and the USWNT play the game differently?  Revolutionary stuff.

https://footystats.org/international/united-states-womens-national-team-vs-portugal-womens-national-team-h2h-stats#

https://footystats.org/international/netherlands-womens-national-team-vs-united-states-womens-national-team-h2h-stats#4474630

https://footystats.org/international/united-states-womens-national-team-vs-vietnam-womens-national-team-h2h-stats#4474617

Advanced stats tell the tale.  Healthy xG lead in every game. Not putting away enough in the final third, very predictable considering the age of our starting line expected to produce.  Giving up very little on the back end, very predictable given the style of play that's been adapted.  Creating chances hasn't been the problem, it's finishing them.

No my point is Madrid played with a purpose even if it didn't look pretty for long stretches. Opposed to uswnt which just looks ugly and is ugly.

You're right ! xg tells the exact tale. They play without the ball and it make it look like their opponent is in control until they make one mistake and pounce. The possession stats tell the tale. You seem eager to prove me wrong so please look up possession stats for madrids knockout games during the champions league run. I'm sure they were around 40 percent in every leg.