Women's World Cup 2023

[Its DJOver]

No my point is Madrid played with a purpose even if it didn't look pretty for long stretches. Opposed to uswnt which just looks ugly and is ugly.

You're right ! xg tells the exact tale. They play without the ball and it make it look like their opponent is in control until they make one mistake and pounce. The possession stats tell the tale. You seem eager to prove me wrong so please look up possession stats for madrids knockout games during the champions league run. I'm sure they were around 40 percent in every leg.

You fail to seem to understand that no two teams play exactly alike, the mens game is different from the womens, and the Champions League is vastly different than the WC.  Are you trying to claim that unless someone plays exactly the same way as the 2021 Real Madrid team that they cannot use the survive and advance mentality?

You say we look ugly and ugly, but the stats suggest otherwise.  Possession stats mean nothing, xG is what should be looked at.  I don't care what Madrid's possession stats two years ago were, they have zero relevance.  You can't say that we've been bad and ugly and also agree with the stats that suggest that we've been the better team in every game.  Which is it? Are we bad like your eye test says, or good like the stats say?

[panda]

You fail to seem to understand that no two teams play exactly alike, the mens game is different from the womens, and the Champions League is vastly different than the WC.  Are you trying to claim that unless someone plays exactly the same way as the 2021 Real Madrid team that they cannot use the survive and advance mentality?

You say we look ugly and ugly, but the stats suggest otherwise.  Possession stats mean nothing, xG is what should be looked at.  I don't care what Madrid's possession stats two years ago were, they have zero relevance.  You can't say that we've been bad and ugly and also agree with the stats that suggest that we've been the better team in every game.  Which is it? Are we bad like your eye test says, or good like the stats say?

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You fail to ackowneldge my very basic point. You said USA are doing what they need to advance. Very vague point but it's true as they advanced (by the skin of their teeth). You're alluding there is a direction to their performance (there's not it's listless).

My point is that Madrid played a less than asthetically pleasing style (like the uswnt) however were highly effective in doing so. The us are a deeply flawed team who are destined for an early exit. Saying anything otherwise is completely blind optimism.

[Its DJOver]

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You fail to ackowneldge my very basic point. You said USA are doing what they need to advance. Very vague point but it's true as they advanced (by the skin of their teeth). You're alluding there is a direction to their performance (there's not it's listless).

My point is that Madrid played a less than asthetically pleasing style (like the uswnt) however were highly effective in doing so. The us are a deeply flawed team who are destined for an early exit. Saying anything otherwise is completely blind optimism.

So the only actual stat you're looking at % possession?

Yes Madrid had less than %50, the same as the US.  The difference is that with less possession, the US is winning xG battle, while Madrid lost it in the final, lost it cumulative over the two legs in the semi's, lost it cumulative over two legs in he quarters, and lost it over two legs in the R16. Not trying to take anything away from Real, it was a good run, but the only thing that run has in common with the 3 US games is that both teams had less than half of the ball. Why don't you just compare us to Leicester?

[JWags85]

Reverse sear steak
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Are you dropping Google search histories in here?

[panda]

Are you dropping Google search histories in here?

Lol that's my man meal note page

[panda]

So the only actual stat you're looking at % possession?

Yes Madrid had less than %50, the same as the US.  The difference is that with less possession, the US is winning xG battle, while Madrid lost it in the final, lost it cumulative over the two legs in the semi's, lost it cumulative over two legs in he quarters, and lost it over two legs in the R16. Not trying to take anything away from Real, it was a good run, but the only thing that run has in common with the 3 US games is that both teams had less than half of the ball. Why don't you just compare us to Leicester?

Madrid played a less than pleasing aesthetic style successfully while uswnt play a less than pleasing aesthetic style with zero purpose.

[Its DJOver]

Then why are you comparing them?

[panda]

Then why are you comparing them?

Two teams play ugly soccer. One is successful one is not.

[Its DJOver]

A women's international team playing in a World Cup and so far advancing in said World Cup compared to a men's club team winning a champions league. A very odd comparison to say the least, you put any teams, club or country, resume up against Real Madrid, the most successful team in the history of the sport, and it's gonna be a one sided conversation. Talk about trying to play with a stacked deck. Score one for you (I guess).

[panda]

A women's international team playing in a World Cup and so far advancing in said World Cup compared to a men's club team winning a champions league. A very odd comparison to say the least, you put any teams, club or country, resume up against Real Madrid, the most successful team in the history of the sport, and it's gonna be a one sided conversation. Talk about trying to play with a stacked deck. Score one for you (I guess).

Soccer strategy is angostic to mens vs women's sport. Counter attacking is not exclusive to the men's game.

That's like saying a zone defense is exclusive to men's basketball.

[Its DJOver]

Soccer strategy is angostic to mens vs women's sport. Counter attacking is not exclusive to the men's game.

That's like saying a zone defense is exclusive to men's basketball.

Sure, in the most basic sense, you can run a man-to-man or zone in both mens and womens bball, the same way you can line up in a 442 or 4231 in mens and womens soccer.  At the highest level, very strongly disagree.

[panda]

Sure, in the most basic sense, you can run a man-to-man or zone in both mens and womens bball, the same way you can line up in a 442 or 4231 in mens and womens soccer.  At the highest level, very strongly disagree.

Enjoy your evening young man. Hopefully I'm wrong re uswnt

[Its DJOver]

Enjoy your evening young man. Hopefully I'm wrong re uswnt

Win or lose Sunday, they're not going to be as good as Madrid, so whatever happens you've sat on the fence effectively enough to pull out an I told you so, so congrats to you.

[panda]

Win or lose Sunday, they're not going to be as good as Madrid, so whatever happens you've sat on the fence effectively enough to pull out an I told you so, so congrats to you.

I'm sorry I don't follow women's soccer closely enough and can't compare the uswnt to another team with the same genitalia to make you feel more at ease with the side by side. I'll remember that moving forward

[Its DJOver]

I'm sorry I don't follow women's soccer closely enough and can't compare the uswnt to another team with the same genitalia to make you feel more at ease with the side by side. I'll remember that moving forward

Would it not be more logical to compare the 2023 USWNT to say, the 2019 USWNT or the 2015 USWNT, or even other female national teams? Even a male national team, despite some of the flaws it presents. You must follow sports in general enough to know that club and country are vastly different. I'm merely just noting that comparing a 2023 women's national team to a 2021 men's club team is nearly as flawed as comparing it to a high school team. It's the same sport yes, but so vastly different in almost every aspect that it might as well not be.

[pbiflyer]

BTW, Germany, number 3 ranked team in the world went home. Lots of upsets and upstarts in the knockout round. Survive and advance!

[panda]

Would it not be more logical to compare the 2023 USWNT to say, the 2019 USWNT or the 2015 USWNT, or even other female national teams? Even a male national team, despite some of the flaws it presents. You must follow sports in general enough to know that club and country are vastly different. I'm merely just noting that comparing a 2023 women's national team to a 2021 men's club team is nearly as flawed as comparing it to a high school team. It's the same sport yes, but so vastly different in almost every aspect that it might as well not be.

i don't think comparing a general philosophy of play between men and women is too far fetched. But it probably is if djover wants to be correct and is on the other side of the argument

[Its DJOver]

BTW, Germany, number 3 ranked team in the world went home. Lots of upsets and upstarts in the knockout round. Survive and advance!

I agree with this analysis.

[Its DJOver]

i don't think comparing a general philosophy of play between men and women is too far fetched. But it probably is if djover wants to be correct and is on the other side of the argument

Go look at hangin at the Al. We compare MU players with former MU players. We compare MU teams with former MU team, and other current cbb teams. We don't compare them with the lady warriors, we don't compare them with the bucks, we don't compare them with the wnba, we don't compare them with the women's Olympic bball team. This is not a "soccer" anomaly, comparing a men's club team with a women's national team, even in the same sport, is inherently flawed.

At this point odds are probably that we won't have the first ever three peat. If that is the case, I guess you can go ahead and call me out again because you would be right. Congratulations.

[Uncle Rico]

Go look at hangin at the Al. We compare MU players with former MU players. We compare MU teams with former MU team, and other current cbb teams. We don't compare them with the lady warriors, we don't compare them with the bucks, we don't compare them with the wnba, we don't compare them with the women's Olympic bball team. This is not a "soccer" anomaly, comparing a men's club team with a women's national team, even in the same sport, is inherently flawed.

At this point odds are probably that we won't have the first ever three peat. If that is the case, I guess you can go ahead and call me out again because you would be right. Congratulations.

I don't pay close attention to soccer but I get what panda is saying.  It sounds like the USWNT isn't playing at a high level and just turning it on in the knockout stage is a dangerous bet.

I think comparing them to other teams in men's sports is fair.  We've seen plenty of favorites sleepwalk during regular seasons or early parts of tournaments expecting them to turn it on, only to see it never materialize.

[Its DJOver]

I don't pay close attention to soccer but I get what panda is saying.  It sounds like the USWNT isn't playing at a high level and just turning it on in the knockout stage is a dangerous bet.

I think comparing them to other teams in men's sports is fair.  We've seen plenty of favorites sleepwalk during regular seasons or early parts of tournaments expecting them to turn it on, only to see it never materialize.

Sure, in a general sense, I would agree.  Phrases like "not playing up to the best of their abilities", or "sleepwalking through the group stage", can be said about anyone.  It's once you start comparing specific playing style, set up, and tactics, that the comparison loses its merit.

[panda]

Sure, in a general sense, I would agree.  Phrases like "not playing up to the best of their abilities", or "sleepwalking through the group stage", can be said about anyone.  It's once you start comparing specific playing style, set up, and tactics, that the comparison loses its merit.

Would you think my statement is more credible if I picked a women's team stylistically similar to Madrid ?

[Its DJOver]

Would you think my statement is more credible if I picked a women's team stylistically similar to Madrid ?

I think regardless of the style, the differences between mens clubs soccer and womens international soccer are to large for a valid comparison to be made. 

[shoothoops]

Agreed and I'm curious to see what happens in the next 10 years. As bad as college soccer has been for development in the men's gsme, the complete opposite can be said about the women's game.

That's just because it's the pathway for Women due to previous pack of professional opportunities. As professional opportunities and $ increase for Women, their pathway will change as well.

Roughly 30 American prospects skip college for professional ball to widely varying degrees of success. College to MLS Next Pro to MLS or International has had success the past couple of years in its new format on the Men's side.

Some top college Women's Soccer Coaches have left for NWSL and other professional opportunities. Randy Waldrum for example, won national titles at Notre Dame, had less success professionally in Houston, and has quickly built bottom dweller Pittsburgh into a top 15 program in just a few seasons. There's a little bit of everything.

Mark Krikorian left FSU after multiple national titles to run an NWSL team. (Washington) And that brings me to the next point.

There's no need to compare Champions League Men's soccer with Women when Champions League Women's soccer exists.

Back to Krikorian, he is well known for his very methodical, East West, possession style teams, in contrast to say Arkansas who has dominated the SEC in recent years with possession indifferent high pressing high octane attack. Alabama presents something a but different to both in their Final Four run last year. as did BYU in their Championship game run a few years ago.

If you want to know how Nigeria plays, just watch some recent Pitt Women's Soccer. If you want to know how Jamaica plays, just watch some Real Colorado club teams, and so on.

As for the U.S., they miss a few key players more than acknowledged, both tangibly and intangibly. They also aren't necessarily playing the most effective combination of players in the best formation. They haven't been committed to a specific style of play which is also a challenge.

It isn't an issue of turning it on or desire.

Many countries would like to be in the Final 16. We'll see how it goes. 

[panda]

I think regardless of the style, the differences between mens clubs soccer and womens international soccer are to large for a valid comparison to be made.

I didn't think playing an organized, counter attacking style is exclusive to only the men's game but it is a very convenient way of creating an argument to try and prove a point.